I need help - relational dynamics of potential job

[diamond]

I'm about to be offered a senior level management position. Here's the relationship breakdown:

CEO - entj (quasi-identical)
Supervisor - enfp (comparative)
Colleague 1 - isfj (conflicting)
Colleague 2 - istj (i'm her supervisor)

This would be my first shot at a job at this level. It involves risk, but there are innovative new programs to oversee which could be a payoff.

I'm worried that my chances of success in this position could be dampened by the above relationships.

What does everybody think?

[Slava]

CEO - entj (quasi-identical)
He will always assume you are capable because he will think you are doing better than him. Although the good thing is he will think he is more capable than you are. Which works with the given heirarchy. The problem will be in communication. Just be sure to just agree with him, rather than verbally translating what he tells you into your own way of thinking. Don't forget to compliment his estimative function :-). Avoid getting creative it will bring out his agression and will cause tension. So if you do hit it off, keep yourself composed and on a business level. If he makes a creative joke that makes you tense inside give him some credit and laugh but do make it clear that it is draining you, and try not to get yourself close enough for him to make jokes with you.

Supervisor - enfp (comparative)
Don't get creative with her, or make any jokes, it will target her weakness. Be careful because once you realize how similar your primary function is, one of you will assume you are the same, and then get creative. This is bad because it will cause a lot of tension. Try to distance yourself somewhat but show your N a bit. because they are F they will eventually realize what's the dilleo.

Colleague 1 - isfj (conflicting)
Don't fake your values, be yourself. This may sound akward but they preffer you to be yourself and be who they hate, rather than fake who you are and end up someone they hate even more. Respect their strengths and don't push a close relationship.

Colleague 2 - istj (i'm her supervisor)
Awesome, they will coem to you will a million questions. Cherrish this person for they will be the one deffending you if anything goes wrong with any of the above.

[Slava]

Hahahahahah... that would be so cool. Why not do it to say... the white house :-)

[Slava]

They aren't all in the same room. I think he meant behind the scenes arangements with one at a time. Serial not parallel.

[diamond]

Good food for thought . . . what's the estimative function again?

I'll be like Brain of Pinky and the Brain:

What are we going to do today, Brain?

Same thing we do every day . . . try to take over the world!!!

[Slava]

EstimativeFunction(ENTj) = SixthFunction(ENTj) = SecondFunction(Duality(ENTj)) =

Basically:
"You got amazing will power"
"You are so practical"
"You have great leadership"
"You dress yourself so well"

[discourse]

Ah, but does socionics have an answer for greater than 2 people interactions?

Yes it does. Unlike the MBTI, the Socionics has taken interest in small groups. They study them and there are a lot of small groups: club, temperament group, quadra, health group. Socionics has done work on how people get a long in small circle of people.

You make the groups in this way:

...............Logic

Extraverts..........Introverts

...............Ethics


and got a group

.................Logic
.........ESTJ...........ISTJ
.........ENTJ...........INTJ
.........ESTP...........ISTP
.........ENTP...........INTP
Extroverts.................Introvert
.........ESFJ...........ISFJ
.........ENFJ...........INFJ
.........ESFP...........ISFP
.........ENFP...........INFP
.................Ethics

Hope you understand now!

[Pearl80]

This is a great thread!

I'm currently struggling with a co-worker who happens to be my Supervisee (ESFP). She is an absolute nightmare. Her way of poking at me is to make an absolute fool of herself in the office. I want to wrap my hand around her neck and squeeze!

I think that I'm too frustrated to take care of her emotionally at this time. I tried it with my ESFP aunt for years and she only ended up irritating me into non-contact.

Its funny how learning Socionics opens up worlds of information on human interactions. Having said that, I have such a hard time believing that my co-worker is suffering in all this madness. She actually thinks that I'm a vicious person and has recruited another woman into this absurd thinking.

[Slava]

At work I got an INTp co worker who up until now thinks I'm just like him . It's funny cause when ever I got into my true personality, which I'm starting to think is actually INTj, his eyes get glazed as if he wished he could see my world, and when he goes into his bussiness logic the same occurs for me. We are both into similar hobbies and have mutual respect for each other, but we just can't think the same way which is very unpleasant. The secretaries or whatever they wanna be called are all ISFj's (all two of them). The other teachers are either ISTp, ESTj, or ESFj ... so I really don't feel like I fit in. The director is ESTj, naturally. I need to stop changing my type during interviews :-). I feel as if the ISFj's dont trust me there too much. They have very very poor security and the ISFj's seem very worried everytime I know how something works.

[diamond]

Pearl80, is she your actual supervisee or your socionics supervisee? Or both? It might be good if she's both because then the natural flow would coincide with the contextual reality. Better esfp than enfp. Enfp's are notorious for stirring things up socially/politically. They always have a cadre of people around them and can get others against you pretty easily.

Slava, i think you are intj, too. You wouldn't have been able to give me such great feedback (above) if you were another entp, not that entp/identitical feedback wouldn't be helpful or anything. But I think that your must be at least third function, not fourth. Plus some of your posts are on the long side. Extroverts hardly ever make long posts on the internet.

[Pearl80]

Hi Blaze!

She is my Socionics supervisee. You mentioned that I should be glad that she is an esfp and not enfp. ENFP is her look-alike so she shares traits of the ENFP type. She has definitely tried turning people against me! That's her M.O. to play the victim...the character assassination tactic is not new for her. On a side note my aunt tested as an ESFP and she did the same thing on the job to her own niece!

It's like I can see right through her and how she "operates," people through manipulation of their emotions. As soon as they walk away she is running them down like dogs.

She is also sorely unattractive and cannot stand me because of the way that I look. I have also lost a lot of weight, which incurred a huge backlash. I'm not saying this to be conceited in fact I'm not a vain person in the least. Others have told shared the same sentiments with regard to her actions towards me.

She plays childish games like making stupid comments directed towards me but made in such a way as to seem innocuous to others in the room. (Hmm...sound like a 10 year old?) Even better, making silly noises when she walks by my desk. (We work in a command center...NORAD style set up)

What will be really interesting is that I will most likely (God willing...God help me!) be her supervisor soon.

[Pearl80]

OMG!

I just confronted the broad! Do you know that she denied everything? I wanted to rip her nose off! She stood there and acted like she had no idea of what I was talking about. She even had the nerve to compliment me!

DANG!

[diamond]

Hi Blaze!

She is my Socionics supervisee. You mentioned that I should be glad that she is an esfp and not enfp. ENFP is her look-alike so she shares traits of the ENFP type. She has definitely tried turning people against me! That's her M.O. to play the victim...the character assassination tactic is not new for her. On a side note my aunt tested as an ESFP and she did the same thing on the job to her own niece!

It's like I can see right through her and how she "operates," people through manipulation of their emotions. As soon as they walk away she is running them down like dogs.

She is also sorely unattractive and cannot stand me because of the way that I look. I have also lost a lot of weight, which incurred a huge backlash. I'm not saying this to be conceited in fact I'm not a vain person in the least. Others have told shared the same sentiments with regard to her actions towards me.

She plays childish games like making stupid comments directed towards me but made in such a way as to seem innocuous to others in the room. (Hmm...sound like a 10 year old?) Even better, making silly noises when she walks by my desk. (We work in a command center...NORAD style set up)

What will be really interesting is that I will most likely (God willing...God help me!) be her supervisor soon.

You are so right enfp's/esfp's totally use emotional manipulation. And I'm always surprised by how much people buy into this, although I probably shouldn't be, by now. Certain types, I guess, can be very easily led.

This is what makes socionics so cool for us thinking types - we make our decisions based on facts and logic . . . and all the other types are ruled by feelings a.k.a. politics. I know I need to know this, and how this works, so I can plan.

[Slava]

When ever an ESFp tries to manipulate me emotionally i.e "Heeeey, Slaaaavvaaa, buuuudyy!", I try to stand emotionaless (as hard as it may be) and give a blank stare with a hint of scorn. This lets them know that I will not fall prey to their game and in general I try to avoid them from then on. With ENFp's I have a field day. Heres an example of one trying to manipulate me and my response.... "Hey, Slava, ummm, do you think it would be possible for you to give me a ride home tomorrow after 3?" my reponse "Well yeah its possible, but I really don't feel like having to (list the steps involved) and so they have to admit the trouble you will go through". If denied, they usualyl try to make a solution for your reasoning so that you will be able to help them. Because of this, I always tell them that my reasons are personal, so they don't get the chance to solve it for me and get what they want. It makes me feel a bit bad inside sometimes, but they it discourages them from later manipulation, which is deffinitly worth it.

[Pearl80]

You're right Blaze! People are so impressionable, if only they knew that they were being fooled. I have a knee jerk reaction to people that are manipulative. I just see right through them and create distance. They hate that, when they can't know what operates you.

The same woman I mentioned goes into my managers office and butters him up...only to come out and actually admit that she just gave him face time! He thinks she walks on water.

In reference to my last post, when I got back to the office it was apparent that she had told our co-workers what happened between us in the kitchen...with some additional information (of course). One of the controllers, who I cannot stand said, "two wrong's make it right!" Only one of them saw right through her...and he is her best friend.

So yes, she has played the victim once again. I wonder how all of this will go over when I'm promoted? Sheesh!

I wonder if her POLR has something to do with denying everything when I confronted her lame, sucky face?

POLR for ESFP Intraverted logic as the painful point, causes high vulnerability in the situations demanding logical, counterbalanced, congruent behaviour.

POLR for ENFP Introverted logic as the painful point, They cannot except criticism of thier illogical acts and behaviors. I guess they also have trouble understanding complex abstract systems.

I don't know this is getting a little tarot. Maybe she is just an ignorant and lame woman.

[Pearl80]

Nice Slava,

I understand that all she wants is a reaction. So I began just looking at her with a smirk and shaking my head when she is acting up. Or laughingly telling her that she is pathetic and sad.

I may have inadvertently screwed up by confronting her today. I think she loved just sitting there denying everything not to mention the fact that she is a coward. She deserves an Oscar for that performance.

She is so fortunate that I’ am a Christian woman with a promotion on the horizon. I used to be hell on wheels, hence the apropos avatar. I'm still a bit of a brat

[Slava]

I think we assume that they manipulate us because they use a function we cannot decode, and on top of it they impose their will. Normally they think this is ok because if they spoke to an identical they would both reason with emotion and wille ach other with equal force. We actually, believe it or not manipulate them as well. We use logic with them, and to them this is trickery as well because they cannot understand it, and they assume that we know this. So I think its a two way miscommunication, and unpleasant one however.

[Slava]

Did they describe the exact mechanism involved? I think everyone is manipulative int heir own way, they aren't a special case. Its all reletive to who you are and your blind spots.

[diamond]

Agree with most of above, except that logical manipulation is going to be based on facts or at least something outside of one's self whereas emotional manipulation is based on people's feelings, which are inside of them and so it feels a lot more personal. Especially when somebody is successful with emotional manipulation - easy to feel punked.

[diamond]

emotionality is tied to concrete objects, thinking is again tied to objects, however is tied to self objects think about the pain for ENFPs... I know I have an ENFP brother.

I don't understand about enfp . . . and why do you say amd are tied to objects?

[Slava]

is the internal state of the object, is th elogic/algorithm of it.

Extraverted functions deal with objects, Introverted functions deal with the field in between. So is the logic of an object (algorithm by which it functions) and is the correlation between two things. Like temperature and time, distance between the pedal and the floor of the car vs the velocity of it, racial statistics of a group, or for any variable vs any other variable.

Any weak function being manipulated is the same amount of pain. In fact its the same pain. The pain doesn't come from feelings, it comes from seeing what you will never be good at. Its like showing your friend your new mclauren f1, and asking him to race you.

[diamond]

Thanks . . . don't mean to be so obtuse. I don't have that much time to read/explore this theory. You know, kids in the house, three jobs, cranky husband, stress . . . I appreciate ya'll taking the time to clue me in!

[diamond]

I feel a little bit out of sync because I am not as familiar with this theory as some of you are, but you've been patient explaining parts that are less familiar to me.

Is there a socionics function for not having enought time and energy??

[Slava]

Lazyness usually stems from which makes you not like to manipulate objects and makes routine seem like hell, because you can see it and feel what it will feel like. When I used to go jogging, I would visualize me doing this my whole life to stay in shape, and just gave up. Cause it seemed pointless. on the opposite end is related to will power and desire to do work on the environment.

[diamond]

Too true, too true. I am currently overwhelmed by details that I have trouble forcing myself to deal with.

The light is at the end of the tunnel: in one week, I will be finished for the academic year and will no longer have to do 2 out of my 3 jobs.

But LAZY? BAD TIME MANAGEMENT?? Hello, I know you didn't mean to come across as so insulting . . .

I think time management issues come from 3rd function . At least for my type. I can discipline myself to deal with details . . . just not too many!!