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Thread: Immaturity as the special hallmark feature of humanity

  1. #41

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    Darklord wrote:
    Is it logical to want to succeed?
    depends if it will help you achieve something you want.

    Why do you want to succeed?
    I'm sure that there is a reason for it.

    What constitutes "success"?
    Same as what is "happy" (I referred to this somewhere else in the forum). "Success," like all others, is just a word made up by a select group of people who had something in mind when they decided to create it. Somehow, one feels pressured to act by these type of words, probably due to the importance given to it by the collective insecurity we call 'society.'

    If you look at it, wouldn't it be just as logical to want to die and not have to continue striving for anything, and also helping the rest of the species by giving them one less mouth to feed and trash can to empty?
    Here is the problem. It won't be logical to die if you want to help the rest of the species. It all depends on what you consider as 'helping' that is. What I think happens is that we are often caught in the crossfire of people's competing interests. An example of this is the conflict between those who claim they want to save the planet and those who apparently want to destroy it. One side will make you feel that producing waste is disgusting, and that humanity is all about greedy consumption and destroying the planet. The other side does not see what the big deal is, and continues to contaminate without really caring about the consequences not related to wealth. It's ironic that while one is flushing the toilet and contributing to contamination, the other lives in a house built on fine land. In the meantime, individuals get influenced by the strength and power that is mass human organization.

    Forget about what other people tell you is right, because you won't be able to find any logical explanation when the goals you follow are made by others own interest.

    Your success will, unless it is extraordinary, be forgotten in ten years, except for by your friends and family, and even if it is extraordinary, it will be forgotten in 1000. If not 1000 years, then 10.000. It will also probably have no effect on the future to any significant degree. If it is significant, it'll probably be used for perverted purposes.
    What kind of mark do you want to leave behind?
    Why should humanity survive? Is survival logical? If so, can you show me the deep-down basis for survival?
    My point is, while logic can determine everything else, it can not give you a basic goal from which to build, no matter how logically you do so.
    This also has to do with what I said. Why is it important to be remembered and have an effect on the future? Of course it is completely illogical because we weren't the ones finding this important in the first place...

  2. #42

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    It all boils down to this: What is the fundamental logical reasoning for wanting something?
    So far, we've been chasing in circles. I'll have to try to be more specific.
    Look at the base of the universe and the very bottom layer of human development, which would be the lower ranks of animals. Is there a logical reason for life to exist at all? Wouldn't it be more convenient and expedient to stick to strict chemical and physical reactions rather than having to move into biology? what purpose does life serve? What is the point behind anything?
    Apply logic to that. You won't find very much, which is why religion exists. Deep down, we can't know the meaning of life, or even if it has one. This would then preclude the 100% logically based human being from seeing a purpose behind anything. The person in question would be overqualified for finding the best way to fulfill a predetermined goal, but would be absolutely gridlocked when it comes to determining a goal for him/herself. Oh, if they could decide upon an arbitrary base on a level above "I want to live" - "I want wealth", for instance - then (s)he could operate magnificently, but that would be precluded. Basically, logic cannot bridge the gap between foundations and operations, because the goal that is supposed to bridge that gap must be arrived at arbitrarily.
    See what I mean?
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

    INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
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  3. #43

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    Darklord, I do understand what you are saying. Yes, I have also thought of how our existence might merely be the result of large-scale atomic interactions, and how our very thoughts are simply the result of them. The idea of everything following consistent and ever-predictable behavior is very depressing to me as well.

    I definitely also understand what you are saying about the apparent uselessness of studying other sciences that do not focus on going to what is fundamental.

    Let me put it this way so as to understand what you are saying, and at the same time, show you what I have meant before: How would you consider something of having meaning or a point?

  4. #44

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    If it meant something to me, obviously, then it has a meaning/point to it. Or if I can see a very good logical reason, extrapolated from something that means something to me.
    However, the "means something to me" is still the core of the issue.
    And, of course, no matter how fantastically good that meaning/reason/point might be, if it conflicts with my personal values, forget about it! :wink:
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

    INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
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  5. #45

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    Darklord wrote:
    However, the "means something to me" is still the core of the issue.
    Exactly, this is what I was referring to when I said that there are certain words (in this case phrases) that without any good explanation we feel pressured to somehow act upon them. Maybe it has to do with depending only on the grammar of a conversation rather than having interest in understanding the motives behind what is said. The phrase: "I want to succeed" sounds perfect, but it somehow feels empty.

    I have a strong feeling that no matter how you can improve language, the best form of communication is empathy. It goes into the very basis of what is communicating. Combining empathy with an accurate understanding of the physical laws of nature would definitely lead to a level of inter-human connectedness which will transcend anything that could ever be iterated through language.

  6. #46

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    Exactly. Communication where the clearness factor is removed: You get your point across instantly.
    And the best thing is, political debate would be over in 4 seconds .
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

    INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
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  7. #47

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    And the best thing is, political debate would be over in 4 seconds .
    hehe, that would be funny to see.

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