View Poll Results: In a debate, my main objective is...

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  • ... to win at all costs [I’m a Beta]

    2 18.18%
  • ... to arrive at a high truth [I’m a Beta]

    2 18.18%
  • ... to learn something from my challenger [I’m a Beta]

    2 18.18%
  • ... something else [please explain]. [I’m a Beta]

    5 45.45%
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Thread: Betas: What is your goal in a debate?

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  1. #1
    Creepy-

    Default Betas: What is your goal in a debate?

    Please, only Betas respond to this poll [there is a similar poll in each quadra’s section]


    In a debate, my main objective is...
    ... to win at all costs [I’m a Beta]
    ... to arrive at a high truth [I’m a Beta]
    ... to learn something from my challenger [I’m a Beta]
    ... something else [please explain]. [I’m a Beta]


    ETA: The word "debate" [and "argument," for that matter] is not intended to connote a fight. For the purpose of this discussion, I intended "debate" to mean a discussion in which disagreement is expressed.
    Last edited by female; 01-26-2009 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Creepy-male

    Default

    an Beta?

    Looks like someone got lazy with the Alpha poll~

    (But that's cool, Betas are our bitches anyway.)

  3. #3
    Creepy-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    an Beta?
    Fixed.

  4. #4

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    I don't know. Just voted randomly. Depends on the topic and person. Usually I want to push them to see how confident they really are in their positions, and whether or not a little criticism will deter them. If they get all uppity, unnerved or self-righteous, I don't bother any further.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  5. #5
    Angel of Lightning Brilliand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Just voted randomly.
    ...Kind of defeats the purpose?...

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Depends on the topic and person. Usually I want to push them to see how confident they really are in their positions, and whether or not a little criticism will deter them. If they get all uppity, unnerved or self-righteous, I don't bother any further.
    If argument belongs to thinking, on the other hand, then munenori is an oddball...

    (chain of reasoning: this suggests -> blocked with -> matches the Alpha emphasis -> Gamma emphasis is on the other thinking -> munenori is a feeler (I think), so argument belonging to thinking explains him/her having an unusual view)

    Further brainstorm: Thinking is to argument as feeling is to...?



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Looks like the only quadra that isn't quick to choose "high truth" is Delta. Probably everyone seeks knowledge in argument... the question is what they want to learn about. Delta->people, Alpha->creative belief systems, Gamma->raw, relevant facts...

    Based on the pattern of argument belonging to intuition, I'll suggest that Beta argues to learn about emotions and spirituality. That suggestion seems a little bizarre, though, so I'd best wait for more evidence...



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Please, only Betas respond to this poll [there is a similar poll in each quadra’s section]
    Other quadras might like debates, BUT... "I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!"
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    Other quadras might like debates, BUT... "I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!"
    Funny thing is, Delta didn't like debates either. Could it be related to the Democratic/Aristocratic dichotomy?



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Funny thing is, Delta didn't like debates either. Could it be related to the Democratic/Aristocratic dichotomy?
    But the question wasn't whether you like debates or not, but what your goal is when you find yourself in one. The dislike people have expressed is unrelated to the (essence of the) question.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    But the question wasn't whether you like debates or not, but what your goal is when you find yourself in one. The dislike people have expressed is unrelated to the question.
    my choice is to learn something from my challenger
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    But the question wasn't whether you like debates or not, but what your goal is when you find yourself in one. The dislike people have expressed is unrelated to the question.
    But it is related to what I'm thinking about, which transcends threads.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

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    It's one thing to think outside the question and broaden/explore the topic, but some people actually think they are answering the question by doing this.

    Q: What is your main objective in a debate?
    A: I don't like debates.

    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  13. #13
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    It is to arrive at a high truth, although this is misleading. Minor, but misleading nonetheless.

    Essentially, one of three things can happen in terms of the truth being reached, to conclude an argument between an intellectual adversary and myself:

    1. I convince the opposition that my point of view is correct.*
    2. The opposition convinces me that their point of view is correct.
    3. I realise, that through argument, not only is their point of view skewered, but so is mine, and thus a "higher truth" is reached.**

    Generally, I learn something about my opponent as I argue, but this is not my sole aim; it tends to occur naturally. I never want to "win at all costs", although often people who are of a weaker temperament than myself will accuse me of desiring such. They are wrong.

    When I'm winding people up, it is just that - there are no ulterior motives. If I'm arguing irrationally, it's normally because I'm playing around with the person. This is normally recognisable by my use of profanity. On incredibly rare occasions, I'm so frustrated with a point of view that, rather than criticising it, I'll swear about it.

    *Let it be known that I always believe my point of view to be correct (otherwise to hold it would be illogical), so when I convince my opponent of "my point of view", I see this as convincing them of the truth.
    **This event best characterises the option I chose on the poll.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I never want to "win at all costs", although often people who are of a weaker temperament than myself will accuse me of desiring such. They are wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    If I'm arguing irrationally, it's normally because I'm playing around with the person. This is normally recognisable by my use of profanity. On incredibly rare occasions, I'm so frustrated with a point of view that, rather than criticising it, I'll swear about it.
    I could have said these same things. (Even though I am probably much less openly argumentative than you) (<-- I realize this is kind of relative though)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I generally only get involved in debates when someone is spreading and/or believing in nonsensical bullshit and I need to educate them. There are a few subjects out there that people are passionate about on an idealistic level, but could have their facts off. Like dumbass redneck republicans not even knowing what their own party platform may be. Or atheists who are (justifably) skeptical of religion, but not keen on religious/ecclesstical histories (or on the flipside, theists who've got their own heads up their asses about religious history). Once I have spread a few more facts into a debate, I'll do something else. It's rare than I even do this anymore though. Debates are boring.

  16. #16
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    My goal is to get people to agree with me.

  17. #17
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    It starts out to prove I'm right, then it becomes to prove I'm not wrong, then it becomes to figure out what I think. I always know what I think better when I have to say it (that's not 100% accurate, but it's close.)
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  18. #18
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    most people just talk a load of shit. you can't learn anything from them.

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