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    Default Fi or Fe slip?

    Share your opinion on whether the following anecdote is most likely to have been said by a person with Fi PoLR or Fe PoLR?

    I was eating dinner with some friends last night. There were 2 pairs of couples there, in addition to me. After dinner we all sat around the table to look at old pictures. One of the couples has been together for about 4 years and has lived together almost that entire time. The other couple has just recently met and dated for just about a month. The female in the newer couple handed an older picture of her to her boyfriend. It was a picture of her, taken 8 years ago and she was wearing a nurse halloween costume and looked smokin' hot. When the boyfriend saw the pic, his eyes bulged and it was clear from his expression that he thought she looked HOT HOT HOT. So the guy proceeds to say to his girlfriend "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times." Then he turns to the other guy and says "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    I could tell the girl's feelings were a little hurt by this, but the boyfriend seemed completely oblivious to it. Knowing them both pretty well, I can tell you that there is strong attraction from both sides and that the guy thinks she is beautiful and hot and lets her know/shows her frequently.

    This just seemed like a total Fi or Fe slip on the guy's part. What do you think? Which does it sound like...an Fi or an Fe slip?

    FWIW, the woman in the older couple is SEE and she definitely noticed and immediately spoke up to say "She's always been beautiful and still is." LOL @ the fact that even after this, the boyfriend continued to be oblivious. The guy in the older couple is XSTj and I could tell he felt no emotion at the comment and frequently makes similar comments himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Share your opinion on whether the following anecdote is most likely to have been said by a person with Fi PoLR or Fe PoLR?

    I was eating dinner with some friends last night. There were 2 pairs of couples there, in addition to me. After dinner we all sat around the table to look at old pictures. One of the couples has been together for about 4 years and has lived together almost that entire time. The other couple has just recently met and dated for just about a month. The female in the newer couple handed an older picture of her to her boyfriend. It was a picture of her, taken 8 years ago and she was wearing a nurse halloween costume and looked smokin' hot. When the boyfriend saw the pic, his eyes bulged and it was clear from his expression that he thought she looked HOT HOT HOT. So the guy proceeds to say to his girlfriend "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times." Then he turns to the other guy and says "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    I could tell the girl's feelings were a little hurt by this, but the boyfriend seemed completely oblivious to it. Knowing them both pretty well, I can tell you that there is strong attraction from both sides and that the guy thinks she is beautiful and hot and lets her know/shows her frequently.

    This just seemed like a total Fi or Fe slip on the guy's part. What do you think? Which does it sound like...an Fi or an Fe slip?

    FWIW, the woman in the older couple is SEE and she definitely noticed and immediately spoke up to say "She's always been beautiful and still is." LOL @ the fact that even after this, the boyfriend continued to be oblivious. The guy in the older couple is XSTj and I could tell he felt no emotion at the comment and frequently makes similar comments himself.
    That sounds like an Fi slip to me - not necessarily Fi-PoLR, unvalued Fi at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    That sounds like an Fi slip to me - not necessarily Fi-PoLR, unvalued Fi at least.
    This is the way I was leaning also. Thanks.

    I'm pretty sure this guy is SLE, btw. I'm wondering how IEIs here would respond to such a comment from an SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This is the way I was leaning also. Thanks.

    I'm pretty sure this guy is SLE, btw. I'm wondering how IEIs here would respond to such a comment from an SLE.
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    To me, it wouldn't be about the relationship, it'd be about him being an insensitive ass. I personally have more than a few neurotic hangups about my physical appearance and someone calling attention to them in that insensitive manner (in front of OTHER people no less!!) would mortify me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I have to say, a comment that like honestly would NOT bother me. I would laugh. Cause I mean, if I DID look hot in the pic, I'd be really flattered. Anyway, some women take too much offense at things like that. Do they have no confidence in their relationship?
    Ugh, really? I don't see it as having anything to do with their relationship, it's just him displaying how inconsiderate he is. It was a slight against her current appearance. If I were there I would have discreetly taken him aside later and explained how he came across to his girlfriend and told him to apologize, because... I do those sorts of things, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    Ugh, really? I don't see it as having anything to do with their relationship, it's just him displaying how inconsiderate he is. It was a slight against her current appearance. If I were there I would have discreetly taken him aside later and explained how he came across to his girlfriend and told him to apologize, because... I do those sorts of things, lol.
    And he'd probably be embarrassed and feel really badly, just making everyone feel worse. I just think, why get hurt over something said when there were no bad intentions?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I'm guessing he was making an objective comparison with the photos and simply saying what he saw (with out thinking about feelings). So in that way, it's not really insensitive. It's just not seeing the implications of saying something like that... It might be recognized if there was enough disturbance in her behavior to indicate it hurt her feelings, at which point it would fall together in his mind... And if it really bothered her deeply eventually her feelings would be made known (via Fe), whether in that instance, or in reaction to a string of such instances later. Then I'm guessing he would try to fix it, in the way Sirena mentioned. Then she would know he didn't mean any of the things by it that she thought he might mean, that it was only saying what he saw, and there wouldn't be a reason to continue feeling hurt... It could all be forgotten and easily moved past. And I'm thinking over time he might become more aware of which things produce the "hurt Fe" responses, and navigate better increasingly over time. While she might start getting better at not being easily hurt by things that weren't meant in a hurtful way to begin with, and might start to feel more grounded and simply look at things as they are (without feeling hurt about them, instead seeing the humor in them). So I think that in the long run, it might work out nicely.

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    this thread and example sounds more like an fi valuer's views, and not really the actions of the participants. i tried to choose, but i think i've seen both weak Fi and weak Fe people say stuff like that... maybe more of an Fe slip, but not sure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This is the way I was leaning also. Thanks.

    I'm pretty sure this guy is SLE, btw. I'm wondering how IEIs here would respond to such a comment from an SLE.
    This particular issue is representative of why I generally disagree with dual theory in the case of IEI-SLE, especially. I've yet to come across an SLE with whom I'd be willing and able to overlook this kind of feeling obliviousness for long. It grates on my ethical sensibilities and just rubs me the wrong way.

    I'd be highly offended if anyone spoke that way about me, let alone a supposedly "significant" other.

    Moreover, I simply don't understand why I should (or would) be attracted to anyone who tends to devalue most things I identify strongly with. Perhaps in the shorter term, as a kind of "opposites attract" way, but I don't tend to overlook insensitivity or crudeness as an integral personality trait for long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    This particular issue is representative of why I generally disagree with dual theory in the case of IEI-SLE, especially. I've yet to come across an SLE with whom I'd be willing and able to overlook this kind of feeling obliviousness for long. It grates on my ethical sensibilities and just rubs me the wrong way.

    I'd be highly offended if anyone spoke that way about me, let alone a supposedly "significant" other.

    Moreover, I simply don't understand why I should (or would) be attracted to anyone who tends to devalue most things I identify strongly with. Perhaps in the shorter term, as a kind of "opposites attract" way, but I don't tend to overlook insensitivity or crudeness as an integral personality trait for long.
    I tend to relate to your feelings in response to his comment. I think it would make me feel unappreciated and devalued, which is what would hurt the most. Like I'm not the most beautiful and attractive creature in the world to him. Yeah yeah, I know this sounds stupid given that the girl in the pic would still be me, but still. And yes, I realize it's probably unrealistic to think I would be these things to someone. But idealism FTW! I do need to feel appreciated in this way by someone, even if I know it's a very subjective feeling. As long as I knew that I was the most beautiful person to *him*, that's all that would matter.

    I agree that this is one of the drawbacks to duality, but I guess there's no such thing as perfect. Although I have to say that if my friend brought this to his attention and how it made her feel, he would totally feel bad about it because he truly does care about her and is crazy about her. He would probably find a way to make it better, which is maybe how duality bounces back. She's told me she continues to be surprised by his ability to do this. To help her bounce back quicker than anyone else. She can tend to get stuck in a mood. She would probably need to throw out some serious Fe out there for him to pick up on it and react, but she's inclined to do so around him anyway. I get the feeling he holds back from reacting until he gets more and more Fe thrown at him. Like he's greedy for it. LOL. Oh, in case it wasn't obvious, I think she's IEI.

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    It's the sort of thing a guy would laugh at and not a women..in most cases. Well, I'd wonder why a girl i'd started dating was showing me a picture of her with her ex like that. Maybe she is the on with the Fi PoLR lol.

    I don't think the comment is any function, I think it's just one of those things. Hmm, maybe someone else will have an analysis of it from a socionics pov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's the sort of thing a guy would laugh at and not a women..in most cases. Well, I'd wonder why a girl i'd started dating was showing me a picture of her with her ex like that. Maybe she is the on with the Fi PoLR lol.

    I don't think the comment is any function, I think it's just one of those things. Hmm, maybe someone else will have an analysis of it from a socionics pov.
    Huh? The girl's ex wasn't in the pic. It was just a pic of the girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Huh? The girl's ex wasn't in the pic. It was just a pic of the girl.
    My bad, I thought it said a picture of her with her ex.

    I'd still wonder why she was showing him it, considering it was taken 8 years ago and she knew she looked good in it and maybe it was to receive praise? Was it to make him jealous, or to say, "I used to look good" or just showing him it or something else. lol, I over analyse things though.

    OK.. If it was me in that position (showing me the photo) it would probably make me want to have sex with her more. And on that thought I probably wouldn't have said anything at the dinner table

    Still not sure what function PoLR it would relate to (if any) as it would depend what was going on in his head (I mean, some people would come up with an idea that she was looking great and ended up sleeping with someone that night, maybe that would then make them jealous or something, which would make them say something like that so it wouldn't necessarily be an F PoLR if they were aware of what they were doing.. perhaps.)

    Edit: But if it's something that happens a lot, and he isn't aware of the impact, non-ego F would make sense. (I personally don't know if it's an F PoLR though, i've seen lots of role F types and PoLR F types do stuff like that a lot.)

    I suppose this is post is a long way for a short answer :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Still not sure what function PoLR it would relate to (if any) as it would depend what was going on in his head (I mean, some people would come up with an idea that she was looking great and ended up sleeping with someone that night, maybe that would then make them jealous or something, which would make them say something like that so it wouldn't necessarily be an F PoLR if they were aware of what they were doing.. perhaps.)
    I think that if you look at his reaction [or lack thereof] after he made the comment - he didn't seem to notice his gf's feelings, even after he was sort of scolded for it - his obliviousness is more telling than that he made the comment in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    I think that if you look at his reaction [or lack thereof] after he made the comment - he didn't seem to notice his gf's feelings, even after he was sort of scolded for it - his obliviousness is more telling than that he made the comment in the first place.
    I put an edit in making a note if it's a consistent thing (like it was mentioned for the other bloke.) I don't think we can say with certainty from one event. But yeah I would have to agree it's certainly looks like non-ego F.

    And I do think guys have a different sense of humour that women in lots of circumstances. Probably plenty of F males who wouldn't have clicked to that as much as most girls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    My bad, I thought it said a picture of her with her ex.

    I'd still wonder why she was showing him it, considering it was taken 8 years ago and she knew she looked good in it and maybe it was to hear praise? Was it to make him jealous, or to say, "I used to look good" or just showing him it or something else. lol, I over analyse things though.

    OK.. If it was me in that position (showing me the photo) it would probably make me want to have sex with her more. And on that thought I probably wouldn't have said anything at the dinner table

    Still not sure what function PoLR it would relate to (if any) as it would depend what was going on in his head (I mean, some people would come up with an idea that she was looking great and ended up sleeping with someone that night, maybe that would then make them jealous or something, which would make them say something like that so it wouldn't necessarily be an F PoLR if they were aware of what they were doing.. perhaps.)
    Hmm interesting. Just to clarify...she didn't purposely dig out the pic to show it to him. That was just one pic among 100 others that we were all looking at. For no reason other than why people usually look at old pics. To laugh, reminisce, etc.

    By the way, this girl *is* currently beautiful and young and all that. It's not comparable to a 50 year old showing a picture of her on her 21st birthday or something. I'm actually pretty sure that if she were to put on that costume again now, she would look just as good. Maybe the guy's imagination wasn't that good though...to realize that without actually seeing it in front of him. Weak N?

    The jealousy theory is a clever one and I could see how that would be an option. However, in this case, I strongly doubt it given the fact that he had already seen pics of her looking good standing next to other guys. More suggestive pics, if you will. And he was direct about his reaction to that by giving her what I call a very "Se look". I really think he just doesn't make that type of ethical connection, not something as subtle as that and not unless more outwardly expressed. I'm sure that if she ever mentioned anything to him about it afterwards, he would've been like "huh? what are you talking about?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    When the boyfriend saw the pic, his eyes bulged and it was clear from his expression that he thought she looked HOT HOT HOT. So the guy proceeds to say to his girlfriend "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times." Then he turns to the other guy and says "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."
    Okay, maybe it's just me, but...

    "How old were you here? These were definitely your best times."

    "Wow, you looked so much hotter when you were younger. I wish you still looked like that."

    "Look at this, if you couldn't see her face, you'd think it was someone else."

    "Because I find it hard to believe that she could ever have been that good-looking to begin with, I mean, look at her now!"
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
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