ENTps having poor judgement when it comes to people

[Polly_G]

I have heard that others, like me, who are ENTPs lack a certain judgement when it comes to how others feel about them. I can completely attest to this. My intuition picks up all the between the lines type stuff in the conversation but I lack the ability to analyze how they feel about me.

I can pick up a lot of things when iteracting with a person but every once in awhile, I just know they are thinking something negative about me but I have no clue what.

When I interact with someone, I do it on a verbal and non-verbal way. I can't describe it, I just pick up things, feelings, and just know much more than what the person is actually telling me. Sometimes, if someone is taking a long time to tell me something, I have to so resist the urge to just cut them off and finish what they are taking so long to spit out.

It just seems so weird that I would have these other insights yet none into how people actually feel about me.

Does anyone know how the functions come into play here and why?

[Raver]

I have heard that others, like me, who are ENTPs lack a certain judgement when it comes to how others feel about them. I can completely attest to this. My intuition picks up all the between the lines type stuff in the conversation but I lack the ability to analyze how they feel about me.

I can pick up a lot of things when iteracting with a person but every once in awhile, I just know they are thinking something negative about me but I have no clue what.

When I interact with someone, I do it on a verbal and non-verbal way. I can't describe it, I just pick up things, feelings, and just know much more than what the person is actually telling me. Sometimes, if someone is taking a long time to tell me something, I have to so resist the urge to just cut them off and finish what they are taking so long to spit out.

It just seems so weird that I would have these other insights yet none into how people actually feel about me.

Does anyone know how the functions come into play here and why?

I heard that ENFps are also poor at judging people, though they are awesome at perceiving them. ENTps may share this as well due to the close similiarties. I think it is a trait of ENXPs.

[reyn_til_runa]

I have heard that others, like me, who are ENTPs lack a certain judgement when it comes to how others feel about them. I can completely attest to this. My intuition picks up all the between the lines type stuff in the conversation but I lack the ability to analyze how they feel about me.

I can pick up a lot of things when iteracting with a person but every once in awhile, I just know they are thinking something negative about me but I have no clue what.

When I interact with someone, I do it on a verbal and non-verbal way. I can't describe it, I just pick up things, feelings, and just know much more than what the person is actually telling me. Sometimes, if someone is taking a long time to tell me something, I have to so resist the urge to just cut them off and finish what they are taking so long to spit out.

It just seems so weird that I would have these other insights yet none into how people actually feel about me.

Does anyone know how the functions come into play here and why?

I think I know what you mean. It's "how they feel about me" that is the problem. Perhaps, it's related to the NT tendency to remain objective even when it comes to relationships. That doesn't mean we can't show feelings or accept them, but we don't usually evaluate people based on our feelings about them or theirs towards us. For example, let's say a friend of mine asks me, "How do you feel about Maria?" I'd probably not know what to say. I mean, I'd immediately say, "Well, from what I can tell, she seems...." never really committing to saying how I feel about her, and trying to answer the question with a series of observations. It is the same if a friend were to ask me how another person feels about me. I am either baffled about why my feelings wouldn't already be apparent, or I have no clue what they mean by the question. I would probably say something like: "You mean, how does he act around me?" I can answer questions about my observations, but not about my feelings related to my observations. I think this same idea carries over into things like having opinions on news stories or events or whatever. People expect feeling-based reactions, and I'd rather stay away from those. That said, I generally know right away whether I connect with a person or whether they have ulterior motives. So, I wouldn't say I have bad judgment altogether, but rather, bad feeling-based judgment.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Dioklecian]

My intuition picks up all the between the lines type stuff in the conversation but I lack the ability to analyze how they feel about me.

I have always wondered what goes on in the ENTp brain. This is a good statement.

For ENTp, the two main functions are:

Extroverted Intuition
Introverted Thinking

Now, I don't know if this is the "technical" socionics way of explaining it, but this is how I understand it.

The first function is kind of "flavored" by the second. You said that you pick up the "between the lines" stuff in conversations. This is your periodically flashing on and analyzing things.

Since your brain works on the "perceptive" mode, you are not usually coming to conclusions. Determining your relationship to another person () is coming to a conclusion, and this does not come as automatically as your . You have to think about it, and make somewhat of a concious effort.

(I think this is really the thing, "making a concious effort". Some socionics theorys say that F types are supid, and that T types are social disasters, but in my opinion the only difference is just what comes automatically.)

What you are "picking up" is the emotional reactions (). This information is quite weak (with all the other things occupying your mind) so you would just kind of percieve it as a foreboding background.

Why do you pick it up? I think this is because the Extroverted Feeling does not really compete on the same plane as Introverted Thinking. That is, you can do both at the same time, albeit with the same amount of "mental force" to be divided among two functions.

This is why Alpha (& Beta) quadra need to be in a happy environment more than most. ENTp and INTj are especially bothered by strange emotional backgrounds.

Transigent how do you view in your daily life with other people, does it pop out out, or you have to think about it? ANd how does the info from differ from the info from ?

[Joy]

I find that I'm too openminded with people, and this attracts all of the psychotic people. They all want to be my friend. These days I avoid that by just not having all that many friends. Much less hassle.

[Dioklecian]

Transigent how do you view in your daily life with other people, does it pop out out, or you have to think about it?

Hell if I know, I don't really care. I don't let anybody close enough that they can do me any real harm anyway. Many people I know would probably be surprised if they knew all the stuff about me that I have posted on these forums.

I don't really do the "T" thing when I talk or interact with people. If there is something I don't understand in the conversation, I will ask until I find out what it is. Most people are frivolous enough where I can correct any "wrongs" that I have done rather easily by simply being honest about how I feel things are going.

If I feel that certain people pose a threat to me, I will be very subdued and thoughtful, and they will end up thinking I am "cool". If I don't feel a threat, then I will laugh and joke, and they will end up thinking that I am immature and stupid.

Mostly, I think about what people's perception of me is. I like to play with this "perception" and build it into different things. I don't exactly know what "function" this is, but this is what I do. I think it is because maybe I can't ignore the fear that they might perceieve me as something they don't want to be involved with? But in anycase, I try to keep full control of how other people view me. It is not perfect in any sense, but it prevents the surprise of somebody "knowing too much."

Due to this process (which wasn't exactly a concious effort on my part) I don't even know who I am *really*. Which is why I have found it so difficult to type myself.

ANd how does the info from differ from the info from ?

I think that is actual emotions that you see and feel in yourself and others. Wheras is actual thought that you have given to how yourself and other people "fit together", whether consonantly or dissonately.

I sort of believe that the and functions are too variable to be taken seriously. Why take something seriously that is only going to change in two minutes? In my mind, these are only guides to what is actually there: outward manifestations of an inner structure. Special cases of a general trend.

I think that info is really deductions based on general feelings and hunches you have about somebody. info would be based on what you actually percieve thier emotions as. Picking up info is something I am quite shitty at unless I care enough to take notice. Usually, if I am "active" I try to get everybody laughing somehow, becasue negative emotions are not my cup of tea. I do not like "comforting" people, because deep down I just think they are being babies.

would be, I guess, a consideration of how you would get along with someone else, but I don't really think this is right since could be my POLR if I am indeed ENTp, so I can't really talk about it with any authority.

If someone has bad intentions towards you, threatens you, what would you do?

[Dioklecian]

If someone has bad intentions towards you, threatens ou, what would you do?

I decide they are a dick, and they should stop being a dick.

I am trying to compare the emotional reaction, how would you react in such a situation?

[Dioklecian]

If someone has bad intentions towards you, threatens ou, what would you do?

I decide they are a dick, and they should stop being a dick.

I am trying to compare the emotional reaction, how would you react in such a situation?

With a smile or smirk and a WTF face, saying why are you being such an asshole?

Usually people don't threaten other people unless somebody started it though. So if I was being a dick to them first, I already predicted thier reaction kind of. In this latter case, I would just be like "I was kidding!"

What if they want something from you with threats. What would you do? How would you respond to coercion is what I mean,

[Dioklecian]

What if they want something from you with threats. What would you do? How would you respond to coercion is what I mean,

I am older so coercion doesnt bother me. It depends on who the person is though. If I feel that they are justified in threating me, then I will probably do what they say; if they are just being unjustly power-grabby when I can tell they are really a weak person on the inside, I will ignore them.

Sorry, I don't know how old you are. What if a weak person has the ability to hurt you? Would you take some punishment and be free or would you avoid it at all costs?

[Dioklecian]

For instance in a social context. Someone wants to make you dependent on them or else...would you go along?

[Dioklecian]

For instance in a social context. Someone wants to make you dependent on them or else...would you go along?

I still don't understand. I don't know what you mean by "dependent"? Dependent on them for what? Money?

Sure, money, health, anything. Lets' say your parents want you to be dependent on them, by preventing you from going to college far away, by not giving you any money, etc. Is independence more important or the fear of punishment (no money, cut off from support, etc)?

[Dioklecian]

For instance in a social context. Someone wants to make you dependent on them or else...would you go along?

I still don't understand. I don't know what you mean by "dependent"? Dependent on them for what? Money?

Sure, money, health, anything. Lets' say your parents want you to be dependent on them, by preventing you from going to college far away, by not giving you any money, etc. Is independence more important or the fear of punishment (no money, cut off from support, etc)?

I guess in cases like these I would just think "OMG these people are crazy!" and do whatever I felt like. If I could be independent I would, if I couldn't be independent, well, then I suppose I would be stuck, no?

Lol, yes. But you know when people are stuck they do crazy things. For example when the British raisedthe Tea Tax America said up yours and went to war. Would you do that or your would you turn the other cheek?

[Dioklecian]

Lol, yes. But you know when people are stuck they do crazy things. For example when the British raisedthe Tea Tax America said up yours and went to war. Would you do that or your would you turn the other cheek?

That was the last straw in an entire series of events.

There always comes a point where you realize that the other person just isn't getting it and you have to do something.

I do what I feel like at the time, no real reasons.

Thanks

[Dioklecian]

How old are you transigent? Is that your pic?

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Dioklecian]

How old are you then?

[Polly_G]

If someone has bad intentions towards you, threatens you, what would you do?

It really depends on the situation. If its some idiot, I will ignore it usually. They aren't worth my effort. Unless I might argue with them to toy with them for fun.

If its a co-worker who I will have to continue to deal with I will eventually address it with them and have a little talk. I will try to be as non-offensive as possible but get my point across.

If its a boss its very difficult for me to react. I don't want to threaten their authority and I'm very loyal so it has to be pretty bad again for me to address it.

I won't react at all just out of hurt feelings. Even if my feelings are hurt, I don't feel that justifies me to react in a way that is ..well immature.

If its something that actually has a major impact on me or violates my rights though, that's a different story. I won't just stand by and let it happen usually. If it was unintentional, I might make the person aware. If it was intentional, I will make the person aware and give them a couple hints as to what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve if they don't back off.

I can seem extremely cold when the person has changed from a peer to an enemy. I can over-react with more force than what was doled out. So I tend not to react for fear I am over-reacting. But once someone pushes me so far, I just no longer care.

I might also stick up for someone who I feel is too meek to stick up for themselves.

My reaction in the end is usually just that they were stupid to have forced me to react.

I was not always like this. For much of my life I didn't react at all, I just took it for the most part. It wasn't until I got older that I realized the power I actually had to smack down someone who was bothering me. Its rare I feel the need to ever do this though.

[Dioklecian]

If someone has bad intentions towards you, threatens you, what would you do?

It really depends on the situation. If its some idiot, I will ignore it usually. They aren't worth my effort. Unless I might argue with them to toy with them for fun.

If its a co-worker who I will have to continue to deal with I will eventually address it with them and have a little talk. I will try to be as non-offensive as possible but get my point across.

If its a boss its very difficult for me to react. I don't want to threaten their authority and I'm very loyal so it has to be pretty bad again for me to address it.

I won't react at all just out of hurt feelings. Even if my feelings are hurt, I don't feel that justifies me to react in a way that is ..well immature.

If its something that actually has a major impact on me or violates my rights though, that's a different story. I won't just stand by and let it happen usually. If it was unintentional, I might make the person aware. If it was intentional, I will make the person aware and give them a couple hints as to what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve if they don't back off.

I can seem extremely cold when the person has changed from a peer to an enemy. I can over-react with more force than what was doled out. So I tend not to react for fear I am over-reacting. But once someone pushes me so far, I just no longer care.

I might also stick up for someone who I feel is too meek to stick up for themselves.

My reaction in the end is usually just that they were stupid to have forced me to react.

I was not always like this. For much of my life I didn't react at all, I just took it for the most part. It wasn't until I got older that I realized the power I actually had to smack down someone who was bothering me. Its rare I feel the need to ever do this though.

How would you smack down an ISFP?

[Polly_G]

depends on the situation. If they screwed me over, I might have actual legal avenues to retaliate through. I might go over their head...where there is a will there is a way.

[Polly_G]

Well I don't like to judge unless the I know the whole situation but from what you said, it sounds more like a personality disorder rather than a personality issue. It sounds like councelling is in order here.

As a victim of it, it is not your responsiblity to solve her problems however it is your responsibility to survive and heal. Emotional abuse is just as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse.

There are people, groups etc. that are out there than can help you.

You can't change her. A victim can not change an abuser, especially if they are a narcissist. To a narcissist, you are a source of narcissistic supply and you are either a supplier or you are not. But seriously, don't worry about what her problem is. If it feels wrong and abusive, chances are it is.

Get help for yourself because THAT is something you can control. If she is truly interested in helping herself maybe she will join you in councelling.

Personally, I would leave and get myself some psychological help to get some perspective. In an abusive situation, perspective is one thing you lose.

Also, once someone tears you down so far emotionally, you just get to the point where you yourself are hyper-sensitive. That's something a psychologist can help you understand and give you tools to deal with it.

[Dioklecian]

Well I don't like to judge unless the I know the whole situation but from what you said, it sounds more like a personality disorder rather than a personality issue. It sounds like councelling is in order here.

As a victim of it, it is not your responsiblity to solve her problems however it is your responsibility to survive and heal. Emotional abuse is just as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse.

There are people, groups etc. that are out there than can help you.

You can't change her. A victim can not change an abuser, especially if they are a narcissist. To a narcissist, you are a source of narcissistic supply and you are either a supplier or you are not. But seriously, don't worry about what her problem is. If it feels wrong and abusive, chances are it is.

Get help for yourself because THAT is something you can control. If she is truly interested in helping herself maybe she will join you in councelling.

Personally, I would leave and get myself some psychological help to get some perspective. In an abusive situation, perspective is one thing you lose.

Also, once someone tears you down so far emotionally, you just get to the point where you yourself are hyper-sensitive. That's something a psychologist can help you understand and give you tools to deal with it.

Thank you Polly, ou are very smart and kind.

[Polly_G]

Its not about being smart, its about experience. I was keeping secrets and protecting the person who was emotionally abusing me. Once I broke the silence, it made him accountable for his treatment of me.

I also had to learn a the little things I was doing to encourage the behavior. Even if I wasn't actively encouraging the behavior I was passively encouraging it by not dealing with it appropriately.

But what I still lack is judgement on how to keep pscyhos out of my life. I think it was Joy that mentioned that she keeps her group small to avoid the pyschotics she attracts. I'm pretty much the same way. I swear, I seem to attract narcissists and psychos.

I wish I had some psycho early warning alert system.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Polly, have you learned the Drama Triangle? You should look it up. It is quite simple.

[Polly_G]

I just looked it up Jadae, yeah I can definately relate to being the victim, perceived persecutor and rescuer.

I've gotten off the triangle now. I let people take responsibility for their own behavior and don't try to protect them out of loyalty anymore. I am actually doing them more harm than good when I do that....not to mention harming myself.

I realize my power now so won't be victim again (at least I sure hope not!). If someone thinks I'm a persecutor when I'm not....screw them.

I had to learn to not care to control the situation. Even the victim wants to control the situation but feels powerless to do so. The persecutor controls...the rescuer controls. Its all about control others when all you have to really worry about is controlling yourself.

[diamond]

Polly, have you learned the Drama Triangle? You should look it up. It is quite simple.

That's a cool triangle. I've used it in counseling people. What's most interesting about it is that you can shift positions or they can be shift on you quite quickly . . . hence the dynamics of drama, I guess.

I agree the best choice is don't play. Get out of the triangle.

[BlendieOfIndie]

I was once good friends with an ENTP. We liked eachother, but neither of us acted because we didn't know what the other person thought. She needed lots of freedom. Noone could pin her down.

Over the summer, when we were both miles away, I wrote her a birthday card. She responded with a really amazing letter basically describing her feelings... but not really about her feelings at the same time. The letter had some pretty serious shit written in it. Anyways, I wrote her back. I basically just reciprocated my feelings, but I went overboard (as I usually do when I write).

The result:
She got scared about losing her independence to a relationship. She started ignoring me and we havn't talked since. That's how she delt with the problem of feeling cornered. We still run into eachother (and she ignores me). She can't even look me in the eye.

I thought the whole thing was pretty imature. But now she has a standard protocol for how we interact, and it can't be undone.... not after a year and a half.

[Polly_G]

Well on her side, ENTps don't hold grudges. I know I am personally very cautious with guys though. I take my relationship committments very seriously and won't be pushed to fast into one. I know, at least now, I need a little time to get comfortable with a relationship reaching a new level before discussing moving but once I'm in ..I'm full steam ahead.

If the other person moves faster I do feel pressured and will retreat in fear. I think its kind of important to let an ENTp know you're interested because they won't know if you don't indicate it to them. But be very subtle....I know a forceful assertion of affection towards me early on does kind of scare me away. I haven't let them in totally yet so it seems false. Oh, and don't comment on looks when expressing that affection subtly. Its a huge turn off at least for me.

I'll leave a relationship though if I don't feel the other person is just as committed to making it a good and healthy relationship as I am or if the trust I place in them is violated. It's very painful for me to give up on a relationship though. Its admitting its a problem I can't solve.

[Joy]

Sometimes I wonder if I don't so much attract the crazy people as I do bring out the crazy in people.

[Polly_G]

pffft! nah, perrish the thought! We're ENTprific!! :wink:

[diamond]

This is a great topic.

We are crazy, we don't make others crazy, at least not intentionally. Are you kidding? Entp's probably have the most unique way of looking at anything. Who else would have thought of Frankenstein but an entp? It's great to be an entp most of the time.

I can read interpersonal dynamics well, I can tell when something is going on for somebody very quickly, but I don't often see how others feel about me. I can be tactless and put my foot in. But I never mean to hurt anybody, it's more like I forgot to think about the emotional impact or implications or something. The tendency to pick up on things is the strong ; is too far down the totem pole and with a polr of that pretty much sinks entps when it comes to relationships.

I think it sinks female entp's more than it sinks male entp's.

[Functianalyst]

I have heard that others, like me, who are ENTPs lack a certain judgement when it comes to how others feel about them. I can completely attest to this. My intuition picks up all the between the lines type stuff in the conversation but I lack the ability to analyze how they feel about me.

I can pick up a lot of things when iteracting with a person but every once in awhile, I just know they are thinking something negative about me but I have no clue what.

When I interact with someone, I do it on a verbal and non-verbal way. I can't describe it, I just pick up things, feelings, and just know much more than what the person is actually telling me. Sometimes, if someone is taking a long time to tell me something, I have to so resist the urge to just cut them off and finish what they are taking so long to spit out.

It just seems so weird that I would have these other insights yet none into how people actually feel about me.

Polly, have you ever considered that your Ne is working fine and the persons are lying to you (assuming that you bring it up and they deny your insights are accurate)? However, I must admit that internalizing my feelings in a given situation may be confusing at times. I think that McNews' original description was on point that we can give off confusing vibes, at times. It may be that people are sensing negativity from us. I understand that Se is keen on picking up non-verbal cues. I think I can usually pick up on the total mood of a room or group quicker than an individual.

[Polly_G]

Actually its funny you mention that. A quick way to make an Intuitive feel like they are going completely insane is to deny that their intuitions are true.

This was the case in my last relationship and what was going on in that thread about work. My intutition was working just fine, I just had two people who were screwing with me and lying so bad it made feel like I must be becoming an idiot.

But, if my confidence wasn't already so low at the time, they would not have been able to do it. I'm learning only now to trust my intuition more over what I'm hearing from certain people. I will listen to them, take what they are saying into consideration but I've come to realize that some people don't even know they are lying when they are. They just want to see themselves in the most positive light sooooo bad they inadvertently nudge on the truth.

I'd say right now I'm working on just letting go that when I'm right and someone else is wrong. I want the truth to come out so bad that I will argue with them sometimes in the hopes they will see it. I'm learning that I just have to let this shit go.

[Functianalyst]

Unfortunately, we are not impervious to having the self doubts. I think that what you describe is the two deadliest means of having NTPs lose confidence. Attach the intuition, and worse attack the competence level. I guess if you add in moral judgement attacks, an ENTP will go batty. That is exactly what occurred for almost eleven years, on my last job. Glad you were able to overcome it Polly.

[ScanDave]

I sometimes pick up little things about people almost like I can read what they are thinking. Not feelings so much, but more like thoughts and I can get a vision of someones upbringing or hobbies sometimes based on subtle behavior. I guess its psychoanalysis that I'm doing. Only recently have I been studying body langauge to actually help with this because I realized my ability to pick up non-verbal cues sucked ass. When I'm talking to a girl that is when I usually do it. If I get one of these hunches I run with it, and bring it up. Most of the time the response is positive like the girl saying "How did you know that," or "I've never heard anyone say that to me before, tell me more." I've had a few deny it, but I knew I was right because they kind of went silent, as if they were afraid to say anything. I do usually get confused when that happens, and start to doubt everything. Moreso I'm worried that I said something wrong and killed all chances.

Now trying to figure out if the person likes me. Shit I've gone insane over it. I usually have to go ask someone, explain everything, and see what they think.

Another thing that drives me up the wall sometimes is when I do not have enough information or evidence, but a few hints, on something that has happen. For example, let's say a friend is talking to a girl I'm interested in behind my back. Now let's say he denies it, yet I have some evidence he is. My mind starts making up all these scenarios of what could be taking place. Then let's say I share this information with someone else. I lay down what I know, and to someone else its clear the friend is going behind my back. Thing is I can clearly see every single side, and I then analyze and explain each scenario while stating why one can be favored over the other. To some it looks like I can't make up my mind, or I'm talking in circles.

It sounds like: If he is doing this, I know because of this, this and this. However, he can also not be doing this because of this and this and that. I'm mostly sure about the first, but I suspect the second is the case. Or he tried to do the first, but currently is not.

I also formulate a plan of action for each scenario.

[Polly_G]

I sometimes pick up little things about people almost like I can read what they are thinking. Not feelings so much, but more like thoughts and I can get a vision of someones upbringing or hobbies sometimes based on subtle behavior. I guess its psychoanalysis that I'm doing. Only recently have I been studying body langauge to actually help with this because I realized my ability to pick up non-verbal cues sucked ass. When I'm talking to a girl that is when I usually do it. If I get one of these hunches I run with it, and bring it up. Most of the time the response is positive like the girl saying "How did you know that," or "I've never heard anyone say that to me before, tell me more." I've had a few deny it, but I knew I was right because they kind of went silent, as if they were afraid to say anything. I do usually get confused when that happens, and start to doubt everything. Moreso I'm worried that I said something wrong and killed all chances.

Now trying to figure out if the person likes me. Shit I've gone insane over it. I usually have to go ask someone, explain everything, and see what they think.

I'm pretty much the same in this regard. Sometimes I get flashes of images when I'm talking to someone. It happens so fast and almost at an unconscious level. Its like my brain is making all these connections behind the scenes. I don't think is pyschic at all, I just think its about being able to make connections.

An example that sticks out in my mind is I was talking to a friend on the phone and she said, "OH! I saw the coolest thing!". Just then, I got a flash of a picture of a white car turning a corner with purple lights underneath. I responded, "OH! I saw that too in Kentville and started going on about a truck I had seen with purple lights underneath it." She said, "umm I never actually told you what I saw".

For me, I made the connection instantly to her reaction to the cool thing, who she was and my reaction to the cool thing I saw. My picture, wasn't exactly right though, the car had green instead of purple lights underneath it. I think it was smaller than the car I pictured too.

I have no idea how this works and its unpredictable. I can converse at high speed because of it though. I don't usually share my visions because there are always a few details off so instead, I might ask someone questions to confirm which parts are accurate without letting them know my insights.

God, I feel a bit wierder everyday.