Fe PoLR: how does it show in ISTps and INTps?

[mimisor]

What it's like to have a Fe PoLR? I can't really figure it out.

Think of some situations to discuss.

[Rocky]

I'm going to be lazy...

But this reminds me of another misconceptions people have about types. They think that people don't really "feel" thier so called "weak" functions; not true. Actaully, the "weaker" funcitons are actually more sensitive than the stronger ones (in some ways). Take Fe for an IxTp. IxTps don't need exessive attention, they get bothered by people how are overly feely and emotional, and get tired with people in general, because their Fe function is overly-active. In other words, they more easily over-load their feeling funciton, whereas an Fe dominant type can only draw a tiny bit of "feeling" and "emotion" at one time, so they keep searching for more, and more, and more, to satisfy their Fe. Fe as a fourth function is, ironically, more easily satisfied, so they don't need as much of it.

ISTps might have some odd behavior around friends or family. Too much emotional drama can be strenuous to an ISTp. Their unsociability may arise from people not being trustworthy and polite to them, and it increases when others start to question them about their poor social skills. When an ISTp does feel welcome in a group of people, they might even be talkative and friendly. Only the fear of not being accepted will restrain them. When an ISTp feels like he is out of the loop, or that others are verbally hurting him in some way, he might say some insensitive, blunt, things, often without thinking about it. This is because it is a programmed defense mechanism they have, and cannot control it. Unexpectedly, the ISTp’s mood will shoot up when they realize that the other people around them weren’t either offended or left the ISTp behind. It may look cruel to people around them, but this is how an ISTp lets people get closer to them. After the initial contact, the ISTp will try to keep you as a friend as long as they can, secretly valuing deep relationships with people.

...

They also enjoy it when emotions are just understood. They feel relieved when people can understand them without invading their personal space. They may also have a hard time letting their feelings out, so even if you declare that you like the ISTp several times they may not return the favor, sometimes leaving their partner feeling less appreciated than they really are. It may look like it is hard to please an ISTp on the outside, but that’s only because they don’t show it when you do please them. Some ISTps may stop caring for love altogether if they were hurt enough in the past. They may even forget about the possibility of caring for someone again, trying to sooth their mind. In these extreme cases, the ISTp may only show affection towards pets, because pets never judge you.

[Ave]

In my experience it comes down not being able to stand much moral or ethical pressure. I dont like when people expect me to do things because theyre right and when they do it always seems like theyre breathing down my neck and I explode on them. Not that I dont beleive in morals at all, I just dont like too much pressure or expectation in that regard.

Im not comfortable with too much emotion, open displays of affection, sentiment etc, unless I really know someone closely. Again if someone does show too much emotion it seems like theyre breathing down my neck and that Im walking on hot coals.

[Creepy-]

But this reminds me of another misconceptions people have about types. They think that people don't really "feel" thier so called "weak" functions; not true. Actaully, the "weaker" funcitons are actually more sensitive than the stronger ones (in some ways). Take Fe for an IxTp. IxTps don't need exessive attention, they get bothered by people how are overly feely and emotional, and get tired with people in general, because their Fe function is overly-active. In other words, they more easily over-load their feeling funciton, whereas an Fe dominant type can only draw a tiny bit of "feeling" and "emotion" at one time, so they keep searching for more, and more, and more, to satisfy their Fe. Fe as a fourth function is, ironically, more easily satisfied, so they don't need as much of it.

I can totally see that. Would it also explain why I have problems with over-stimulation and colour? (3rd/5th)

[science as magic]

hey rocky do you think that an inverse relationship exists with the hidden agenda? I find that I cannot get enough but I don't know how to release it.

[Slacker]

What it's like to have a Fe PoLR? I can't really figure it out.

Think of some situations to discuss.

Here's a situation:

I'm going to these parenting workshops every week for the next six weeks. It's supposed to be for couples - everyone will get together and talk about parenting, do some role-playing, discuss our kids and our emotions about our kids and each other. I signed up but said my husband (ISTp) wouldn't be there. My friend was stunned that my husband wouldn't go to it since it's mainly for couples, but that kind of thing is THE MOST PAINFUL thing in the world for him. He could hardly handle birth classes. Talking about us as a family and his emotions regarding parenting with a group of people he either doesn't know or hardly knows would be just plain unfair to even expect of him.

I must assume that it is painful for him because of his PoLR.

[XoX]

Here's a situation:

I'm going to these parenting workshops every week for the next six weeks. It's supposed to be for couples.....

Hmm..I'm not sure if it is the PoLR or what but I would not participate... I'm having hard time to see what use would it serve to participate? If there were some serious problems that I can't solve then I _might_ participate (if I really can't find any other solution). But I don't consider that kind of "workshops" fun and I doubt their usefulness. They sound more like useless mental pain On the other hand I know my wife would be interested in that kind of stuff so this might cause problems if/when we have kids someday...

I don't understand my PoLR very well yet so I just have to believe what Rocky says about it

[Rocky]

hey rocky do you think that an inverse relationship exists with the hidden agenda? I find that I cannot get enough but I don't know how to release it.

Yeah, I think so. You're too sensitive to outside stimulation and pressure, , so you need some kind of subjective feeling, , in it's place. The only difference, I guess, between having dominant or having it as a hidden agenda is that one type knows how to handle it better, whereas as the other type sometimes disregards it, or needs help "finding" it.

[mimisor]

Yeah, as polr is pretty much screwed up, to say the least..
I suppose is about the ability to relax, at least as a hidden agenda.
I feel your pain, Pedro. Chill out, brother, just let things loose

[science as magic]

i disagree that it is screwed up. i think it is valuable precisely because it has the potential to give us so much trouble. i do agree that i need to chillax though

[flower]

everyone will get together and talk about parenting, do some role-playing, discuss our kids and our emotions about our kids and each other.

Wow , there is no way in a hundred years I would do this, especially with strangers.

When I am with good friends, and I dont feel judged, my Fe comes out and I can be very talkative and sometimes quite loud, although not for long periods of time. When in the company of strangers or people I havent known very long, I am different, fairly reserved and I have to make a concious effort to talk to and interact with people like most people do naturally.

[Ave]

hey rocky do you think that an inverse relationship exists with the hidden agenda? I find that I cannot get enough but I don't know how to release it.

Its an introverted function, you dont relase it.

The sixth function can get really intense I've noticed, I guess cuz it gets pent up for so long, but that doesnt make it stable.

[science as magic]

i think you release it or rather it gets released from objects? just like sight can be active or passive or even focused and unfocused? i forget how to release so that i can see it is what i meant i guess

[Mea]

Is this an Fe PoLR hit?

Person A: You need to be more conscious of your body language when talking to other people. Even if you're not interested in what the person has to say, you have to act like you are, it is only polite.

Person B: But I don't care for what that person has to say. I asked a question, and she wasn't answering my question, and was being irrelevant. I don't intend to act interested when I'm not.

Person A: But you have to. You're not very good at dealing with people at all. That's something you have to be better at. It is essential.

[Ezra]

I'd say so definitely.

A Fi PoLR hit, just to clarify, is what my friend said the other day to me.

"Ez, you have to be more considerate of others' feelings. This is an emotional subject and you're taking it lightly."

"So what? I'm making a statement; it has no emotional connotations at all."

"But it does! You're making a light statement concerning an emotional subject, and I don't like it. So just please don't do it again."

[aestrivex]

probably.

^ that, however, does not sound right.

[Ezra]

Why not?

[aestrivex]

Why not?

basically not being aware of the emotional content of what one is doing seems more aligned with Fe polr.


actually, i can sort of see why the above would be an Fi hit, but it's not an Fi hit solely for the reason that you were making a statement with emotional connotations, but rather that you were erroneously perceived as so doing in a way which was not objective.


i guess there's no difference. ignore me.

[Mea]

probably.

So you agree that that is most likely an Fe PoLR hit?

Have you experienced something similar?

[aestrivex]

So you agree that that is most likely an Fe PoLR hit?

Have you experienced something similar?

yes.

[Mea]

yes.

Great. That happened to me today. Me as person B.

It totally irritated me that him & his best friend felt that I need to be better at showing "better body language"
And he told me that I gave her an impression that I was not interested in what she had to teach me, that was the reason why she did not tell me many things. Seriously, I ask her a question, and she started talking about something totally irrelevant to my question, repeating it again and again. Even when I tried to divert it back to what I was trying to find out, she went on about her point thinking she was already answering my question which totally frustrated me.
And all I did was look away occasionally, not like I wasn't listening. And she told him that I was being rude to her and that I don't care enough or some bullshit. URGH!

And they tell me I'm not good at handling people. Like wtf?! Who freaking cares?

[Kristiina]

it sounds like Fe hit. Fe PoLR people would recieve it the most painfully, but all people would be affected. I'd feel bad for days if someone told me that.

[tcaudilllg]

@Kristiina:

Would you think my preceding post accurate or inaccurate? Would you define Fe as something you create in others, or something you acknowledge in others? Particularly, do you think of ENFjs as skillful at recognizing emotions in others; creating them in others; or both?

[Kristiina]

@Kristiina:

Would you think my preceding post accurate or inaccurate? Would you define Fe as something you create in others, or something you acknowledge in others? Particularly, do you think of ENFjs as skillful at recognizing emotions in others; creating them in others; or both?

I don't know enough about +/-Fe. Fe is the ability to sense the details of the emotions in others. Sometimes I notice too much. A person looks annoyed to me, but they are just slightly tired. Noticing the fine-tuned emotions in others helps me say the things that slowly increase their emotion. When I know the other person well, I sometimes know exactly what to say to make them laugh. I can see what mood they're in and how close they are to fun emotions. Sometimes it doesn't work. I don't have the control over their emotions. The answer to your question is this: Evidence shows that I do have some skill at creating emotions in others, but I think it's ONLY because I am skilled at recognizing emotions in others.

A cook can't make good food if he can't taste what's missing. The skill to create something needs the skill to notice the difference.

I am not good at controlling my own body language. Even if I really try to hide it, my body language will show my emotions very accurately. If I feel shy I look shy. But when I manage to make myself FEEL funky, then my body language will become free and I make stupid jokes more freely.

[Slacker]

Part of the problem here might be that it was simply ruden to say that to Mea so anyone might react negatively regardless of type or what information elements one values. No one likes it when someone is a rude bossy bitch.

[tcaudilllg]

@Kristiina:

Thank you for your reply. That I can figure the difference between +/- Fe is this: -Fe sees too little emotion, and wants to raise it to an ideal level; +Fe sees emotion at or above the ideal level, and desires to not only keep it that way but to raise it even higher. That's not the full span of Fe, of course: you can also seek to lower enthusiasm to the set point and no farther, or all the way to nothing. (not sure what you'd call that; maybe it has something to do with which function Fe is blocked with.)

As I see it, we set about trying to influence the world on behalf of our dominant function. A +Fe type like yourself would focus on the business of raising enthusiasm for whatever it was they were interested in. The Fe's success depends on how much a person pays attention to the techniques of dramatic effect, the kinds of things which excite an audience. If the Fe person isn't into the business of fine-tuning their technique, they won't get far; but they may be adept at explaining Fe to others. (the ENFj programmer who spends his time coding all day, and thinking about how to write it, isn't going to be a smashing success on-stage.) I guess what I'm saying is, quality of emotional awareness != skill at replicating it in others.

Do you agree?

in an INTP it is good restraint of Fe action, laughter on occasion with someone unspokenly positively responding to and caring for his emotions. they like to be in objective, non emotionally-influenced state, talking like robots, thinking perhaps too, about what future holds giving current facts. ISTPs would just dislike serious emotions from others, preferring to jam in the moment, chilled and relaxed. imeok

OK, that adds more to it: -Fe PoLR seeks to exclude emotion outright, while +Fe PoLR just seeks to keep it at the ideal medium. Then, what about for the rest of the functions, dee?

[Creepy-pokeball]

Is this an Fe PoLR hit?

Person A: You need to be more conscious of your body language when talking to other people. Even if you're not interested in what the person has to say, you have to act like you are, it is only polite.

Person B: But I don't care for what that person has to say. I asked a question, and she wasn't answering my question, and was being irrelevant. I don't intend to act interested when I'm not.

Person A: But you have to. You're not very good at dealing with people at all. That's something you have to be better at. It is essential.

I ignore people when theyre talking. It's not about so called "Fe", but rather having to listen to pointless information It is kinda like saying, "Hey, Im not gonna condition you into thinking I care when this is obviously redundant. Also, you're interrupting my daydreaming time "

I dunno about POLR hits tho. It always just comes off as horrid miscommunication irl, rather than something that sounds like a grenade being thrown...

[discojoe]

Is this an Fe PoLR hit?

Person A: You need to be more conscious of your body language when talking to other people. Even if you're not interested in what the person has to say, you have to act like you are, it is only polite.

Person B: But I don't care for what that person has to say. I asked a question, and she wasn't answering my question, and was being irrelevant. I don't intend to act interested when I'm not.

Person A: But you have to. You're not very good at dealing with people at all. That's something you have to be better at. It is essential.

Yeah, but that's sort of a generic representation of it. It's basically when their practical sense overrides their perception of what their behavior looks like.

As an example, I was at a Christmas party a couple days ago, and Joy's INTp brother asked if there was anymore wine, and her ENFj cousin said it was all gone except for what was in her glass, and then she offered to pour out half of its contents into his glass. You're obviously supposed to say no to such an offer, but his response? "Sure, I'll take some."

I was embarrassed for him.

My ISTp dad also offers people foot massages sometimes, and I have no idea what he's thinking.

[Ezra]

As an example, I was at a Christmas party a couple days ago, and Joy's INTp brother asked if there was anymore wine, and her ENFj cousin said it was all gone except for what was in her glass, and then she offered to pour out half of its contents into his glass. You're obviously supposed to say no to such an offer, but his response? "Sure, I'll take some."

I don't understand what's wrong with that.

[xyz]

I don't know about Fi vs Fe, all I know is if you followed Person A's advice, you're basically lying to whoever you're talking to. Sides the person should fucking know how to read your body language.

[redbaron]

As opposed to, say, Fi polr?

[Lobo]

You mean VI-wise? Or actions?

[redbaron]

everything I guess! But I was thinking more actions and words/interactions with others.

[Nexus]

POLRs have fake smiles
POLRs have fake frowns

[Beautiful sky]

As opposed to, say, Fi polr?

Fe polr looks like ISTp and INTp; in the case of ISTp, do not like to demonstrate their feelings and are unsure about other's real emotions when people display their emotions.

[Nico1e]

oh, and fake smiles: I always fake smile! Everything is wonderful, la la la! I'm hiding all of my real feelings. I'm scared to show people that I'm not happy or that I disapprove of something. (I'd write more, but the library computer is logging me off.)

[Nico1e]

I find whatever you were talking about over-the-top endearing, so I'ma call it "".

Makes me wish I could just jump in front and shield you from the slack/grief/ridicule some people'll give (or've already given) you for handling emotion like that.

So, genuinely, I can't help but ask: Stay a little awkward.

thanks

[meals]

I am in constant contact with my supervisor ESE, conflictor EIE, and semi-dual ILE and I grew up with an SEI and had an ESE friend. I generally don't mind "positive" Fe unless it is over something really stupid (not everything is worth laughing about), and often enough I really like it when someone good at it lightens the mood. Negative Fe is physically painful for an SLI (aware as I am of my bodily reactions, asthey say).

To hear someone drone on in a negative tone is a drain. To hear someone suddenly get loudly upset over something I perceive as trivial is painful and cues my inner "trying to calm down" mechanism : )

I'm curious about the ILI perspective

[Jarno]

I will give you 2 examples of Fe polr.

1)
A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

2)
A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

I really pwnd those bitches hehe. Thanks due to my Fe polr!

[Anglas]

Fe polr:
Bann yourself for 4 months