I don't see how it has anything to do with Fe Polr.
I don't see how it has anything to do with Fe Polr.
Stop derailing. This is about how awesome soy sauce is and trying to find out why Jug doesn't like being awesome. We're still waiting on the answer to nil's question. Jug is just showing his inadequate soy sauce knowledge in avoiding the question.
if Fe deals with picking up on the tone and context and "between the lines" stuff of what someone as saying then what would that mean for Fe polr?
i'm trying to think of an irl example and i can't. i could be wrong. if nil wasn't joking, that might be a cute example lol. (sorry nil.) but maybe i was taking him too literally.
As far as my husband goes, I'd say on one hand he's hypersensitive to that kind of thing, but on the other hand he's probably not sure if he's reading it right. I think he'd be offended by what you said, but not because he couldn't read between the lines. It would probably be more because it sounded like you wanted a suggestion and then kink of rudely shot down the suggestion. If you would have just said you didn't feel like soy sauce, I think he would have been cool with that. But if you specifically asked for a suggestion, I don't understand why you'd respond so negatively.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
It might be a Te/Ti, Fe/Fi miscommunication. I know that I feel like Ti types take things I say WAY too literally. So it might go both ways as well.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
i am confused and i dont even know what to ask. theres a good chance everything i said in this thread should be ignored.
like are you saying Fe is obvious displays of emotion/intention so Fe polrs pick up on the opposite, the underlying emotion/intention?
i'm thinking that probably isnt what you meant but this is the only mental reference point i can find because i'm lost.
idk, i don't think what i said about literalness is totally wrong but i feel like i'm missing the connection of some dots somewhere.
There are two main forms of literalness that spring to mind here. One stems from the simple error of thinking that what's said is what's meant, which might result from missing/discounting/ignoring affective signifiers and then giving a stereotypical Te/Fi-oriented response (i.e. "here's a bunch of pertinent info" or "here's my personal feeling"). The second stems from recognizing that what's said isn't what's meant and then playing off of the contradictions to hoist the interlocutor by his/her own petard. This can be used to mock faulty thinking, unrealistic expectations, or unwarranted demands. It's also useful to retard, divert, or derail what an Fe-PoLR often regards as others' excessive emotional momentum.idk, i don't think what i said about literalness is totally wrong but i feel like i'm missing the connection of some dots somewhere.
And yes that was a runon sentence.
Like for example, for me, I'll be trying to be friends with somebody, and that person is smiling and being really nice. My first thought is ooo they seem nice, let's see if we can be friends. And then i'll start assessing the person from a character standpoint, and even though the Fe emanated does give some clues, but does admittedly sometimes interfere with the assessment.
On the opposite spectrum, say someone seems really overbearing and ominous towards me (say, a professor). I might get intimidated because of that Fe info, and that could get in the way of me learning, whereas an Fe-POLR might totally not even notice that professor's outward emoting and just learn what is there to be learned. Those are sort of the images in my mind. obviously i could be off.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
They don't totally ignore it they just choose which parts of it they value and which parts of it they dont give a shit about.
For instance I dislike movie scores in which the composer and director attempt to engender a hoped-for emotional response in me that the film has failed to produce. The music intrudes upon my personal experience of the characters as they're portrayed and seeks to impose a "correct" feeling toward them that is dictated by the director. No doubt some find this emotional steering welcome but to me it feels as if I'm being subjected to a cheap instrument of coercion by moviemakers who fall short of true artistry.
I would think, "If this person's niceness is genuine then this may be someone worth knowing, although I hope there's no expectation that I'm going to respond with equal effusiveness, because fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that. In fact this demand upon my attention is somewhat draining as I'd rather focus on things I find more interesting, so I might shut this individual off soon. However, I'll continue humoring this person in the meantime and making observations."Like for example, for me, I'll be trying to be friends with somebody, and that person is smiling and being really nice. My first thought is ooo they seem nice, let's see if we can be friends. And then i'll start assessing the person from a character standpoint, and even though the Fe emanated does give some clues, but does admittedly sometimes interfere with the assessment.
In a similar situation I'd think, "This dude is uptight. What a puffed up clown. Hopefully we don't have any interpersonal friction that will affect my grade in this class. His self-important posturing is hilarious and it's already difficult for me not to tweak his nose."On the opposite spectrum, say someone seems really overbearing and ominous towards me (say, a professor). I might get intimidated because of that Fe info, and that could get in the way of me learning, whereas an Fe-POLR might totally not even notice that professor's outward emoting and just learn what is there to be learned. Those are sort of the images in my mind. obviously i could be off.
I think it's worse for INTps because, not only do you have the prospect of going against someone you favor, you also are aware of how that action will affect the future by doing something you might regret.
The INTp's present actions are restricted by the future reactions(ironic).
k0rp i want you to write a book or something. thank you.
Please, direct all questioning of my self-typing to this thread. Thank you.
They seem to be unable to sympathize unless they have had same experience. For example:
ILI *calls to inquire if I'm going to a certain formal event*
me: sorry no, I'm down with flu, would rather spend the next 2 days in bed
ILI *tried to persuade me how important the event it*
me: no, I'd rather rest now so I'll be ready for work next week, it's chilly outside and there will be parts where we'll have to be sitting outside
ILI *pushes further, explains how I can avoid all those parts where we'll be sitting outside in the breeze and drug myself up*
me: *scratching my head, wondering why he isn't picking up from my intonation that I'm about to lose my voice too as I'm half-whispering on phone*
Some time later me this ILI and myself driving in same car:
me *starts coughing*
ILI: you're coughing too? I had this cough for 3 weeks *proceeds to deliver a sympathetic mini-speech about coughing*
me thinking to myself "oh ... I see how it works"
Seems like when you're telling Fe-PoLRs about how you feel, they can automatically discard this information as bullshit and may be even suspect that you're just pretending or trying to trick them into something. This doesn't mean, however, that information is indeed false. The times that they do show a response to Fe-information is if they have processed it through their Fi at some point, such as the cases where they personally can relate.
I just think of Fe-polrs as kind of untactful. Shrug. Like they just say things because they're true (or because they perceive them to be true). They may sometimes be aware of the emotional impact they know they will cause (especially ILIs, I assume), simply because they have caused said impact before, but they will not consciously consider that as a factor in whether or not to say what's on their mind (I think that they may have some awareness/enjoyment of inflicting emotional pain or giving emotional pleasure, but it is one floor below top-of-mind in almost all cases, even though it may be willed just as strongly). Fi-polrs are the same way, except Fe-polrs say things in sort of a dry, "I just observed this" way, and Fi-polrs say things in a, "just admit it, this is the only thing that makes sense," way.
Or maybe it's more accurate to say that Fe-polrs are ignorant as to the Fe gestural content of what they're saying, the implied content, as opposed to the explicit content. Like, if an Fe-polr describes something that you do wrong as wrong, they are merely noting a fact. But they are ignoring the implied gestural content: criticizing me implies that you judge me, dislike me, find me insufficient---it constitutes a slight, not necessarily by content, but by form. When you say, "you did that wrong," it is not the fact or content that I am taking issue with (I may know very well that I did it wrong), but rather the gesture, the form. It's the difference between "Is that your choice?" and "You look very stupid when you do that line reading." The actual content is not all that different. But the form (which implies another sort of content) is very different. Fe-polrs don't necessarily pick up those differences in form. Fi-polrs can be trained to pick up on differences in form, but perhaps have issues with content? I dunno, that would be neat. Anyway, Fe-egos, being naturally diplomatic, only use blunt forms with the intention of giving offense, and so they assume, when they see that form, that offense is intended (and sometimes it is, but, as stated, the offense is not the top-of-mind purpose of the Te-valuer's statement).
Eh. I often feel this way too though. If you didn't earn the emotion fairly, don't try to cheat to get me to feel sad, when your story was just really stupid. I think that Fe-polrs are likely to feel this way more often though. Like I dunno, I have a higher tolerance, so if it's something that I've already bought into mostly, I'm willing to make up the gap for it out of respect of its sheet likeability. Like Disney movies (except Toy Story 3, which earned its emotionality as far as I'm concerned). Up wasn't *actually* as sad as the music suggested---but I was willing to overlook it, because the emotional music assisted me in feeling a feeling I wanted to feel, even if the movie was not a perfectly sufficient ground for said feeling. Fe-polrs are probably less likely/willing to grant that sort of suspension of disbelief.For instance I dislike movie scores in which the composer and director attempt to engender a hoped-for emotional response in me that the film has failed to produce. The music intrudes upon my personal experience of the characters as they're portrayed and seeks to impose a "correct" feeling toward them that is dictated by the director. No doubt some find this emotional steering welcome but to me it feels as if I'm being subjected to a cheap instrument of coercion by moviemakers who fall short of true artistry.
So you know: slightly type related, but not absolutely (like everything else).
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
This breaks down a few different ways for me:They may sometimes be aware of the emotional impact they know they will cause (especially ILIs, I assume), simply because they have caused said impact before, but they will not consciously consider that as a factor in whether or not to say what's on their mind
- Interest in factuality overrides interpersonal considerations.
- A knack for homing in on defects leads me to opine on unmentionables.
- An attraction to disquieting subjects makes me more comfortable with them than my weaker-stomached interlocutors might like.
- A quick risk calculation made before uttering risque or otherwise dicey comments errs on the side of "oops".
- Risk calculation is bypassed and toes are stepped on inadvertently.
- I push buttons to gauge responses, sometimes alienating people in the process.
- Attempts at mending fences with more appeals to facts and logic rather than simple contrition only compounds the original offense.
- I dislike a motherfucker and will gladly use any pretext to twist his teats.
Last edited by Korpsy Knievel; 04-23-2011 at 03:19 AM.
Fe Polr makes you cool
Scene from Problem Child and parrot.gif are the best parts of this thread.
ENFjs control the INTp with reactions which brainwash the INTp by hitting the weak PoLR and Base with so much intensity that the INTp adapts and begins to avoid such reactions by conforming to what the ENFj expects(or what the INTp think the ENFj expects) in the form of / filtered responses and behavior.
My EIE instructor introduced me to existentialism and caught my worldview off-guard with some life-questioning questions and ideas, especially suicide(I swear at the time I thought he was the Devil, dude had a real nasty look, like a serpent; I also thought he was too pushy with ideas I considered delicate.
Wow, because of reading this thread, I'm going to start using the f-word without censoring it. It's about time. What would I do without the f-word? It expresses so many subtle nuances of feeling when no other word will do. Being Fe-PoLR myself, I'm too ashamed to say it now as a demonstration of my commitment to using it. I'll have to save it for later when I'm really upset about something. It will just sound really lame unless I sincerely mean it.
For me, being Fe-PoLR means... sounding really lame on the rare occasions when I try to express a feeling directly. I can't just push a button and make an emotion come out on purpose. It's easier for me as a female, though. Men are probably even more uncomfortable about expressing feelings.
Yay, staged video. Let's pretend it's real. If cop-caller is Fe-PoLR he's probably SLI and thinks it'd be funny to see the "iPhone" dealer locked up. If you'd said "spot the Fe-PoLR" I'd have said that the inexpressive blonde guy with his hands in his pockets was ILI.
don't watch youtuber attention whore vids.