Fe PoLR: how does it show in ISTps and INTps?

[jughead]

Yes I agree this repression of emotions is not good for an Fe ego to the level Gamma takes it. I'm initially attracted to Gamma NT as they seem "cooler"(shared Ni/Se) than many childish alphas but they do not express emotion and denigrate my expression while hitting me with Te. This is very bad for me and seems to bring on neurosis with prolonged contact. Im just not valued at all.
I need to expirement and make betas my immediate everyday relations.
It seems being ultra aristocratic would be good for me... intelligent educated betas only please!

[jughead]

I agree with those descriptions Blaze, but if someone can find videos it's very helpful if you cam see them. better yet go interact with a type for a day or a week even better.
Logic Polrs suk for dudes.

ILE i know intrudes on people and doesnt see dangerous persons. SLE assumes everyones intentions are nefarious?

ILI I know doesn't express emotion more than a strained deadpan face with flat tone. He may say briefly what hes expiriencing(anxiety) but his expression doesn't allow him to express it!

[jewels]

When I think of Fe polr, I think of a SLI who makes a comment that is not "appropriate."

For instance, everyone is saying how great air balloons are. They are "excited" and there is an Fe cloud of "OMG! air balloons are the best!! We should do it!"

Then the SLI will (sometimes) say something that deflates it "Eh, air balloons crash" or "that sounds lame."

Other times, at random, they might accidentally add to the Fe (which the Fe people like)"let's do body shots!" They can add to the Fe when they feel like it, or when they are drunk.

When they don't feel like it, they will say something horrible.

Which is awkward and the Fe-valuers will be like "umm...huh? Why would you say that right then? Are you trying to piss us off?" (they won't say that, but that will be their expression.

So, when everyone is raving about how great the wedding was, the SLI will laugh and say how the food was just terrible and they should get a refund (to the Fe horror of the married couple who spent lots money on that food).

Or accepting a gift basket, and the host is also offering additional take-home food "Oh I don't eat nuts, and I don't like cheese, so I won't really eat any of this." (ah...hmmm...awkward...)

Or meeting a someone new, and they don't feel like talking, so they just don't say anything.

Though strangely, an ISTj girl I know appears to value Fi by talking about the relationship and saying that she can tell some people put more effort into getting to know her, and she values that, where as others don't seem to really "care" about the relationship. Though she's still all about Fe of course.

And I've known ISTps who don't really get Fi at all, and will sorta put everyone on the same level. Like giving a nice gift, gesture, to one "close" friend and then doing the same thing to someone they barely know. Which makes it seem like the other relationship isn't any closer at all.

[jughead]

Hmm I relate to this istp description. Too generic or could I be istp?
Generally I would just not say anything if it did suck or just leave but if I have no choice I might say something like that. I say plenty of offensive stuff. I test peoples reactions though to see what they are comfortable with. This seems totally normal. I'm thinking it's just too generic.
For example I went to a wedding where the food was blah, I could tell they didn't spend that much money on top that it wasn't fresh and tasty. I had just been to a weddng where the food was awesome and it instantly popped into my head the food wasnt that good and I said it to my brother and he chided me on that. I was like whatever it sucks, and you know it. He didn't disagree he just didn't want anyone else to hear it. I don't think I would have said such a thing to any member of the wedding party or I didn't know personally so I didn't tale offense more than momentary anxiety from his alarm. That's Fe creative right, knowing when and how to say something to get a certain effect? Generally I'm just not PC enough for alot of middle america.

[717495]

When I think of Fe polr, I think of a SLI who makes a comment that is not "appropriate."

For instance, everyone is saying how great air balloons are. They are "excited" and there is an Fe cloud of "OMG! air balloons are the best!! We should do it!"

Then the SLI will (sometimes) say something that deflates it "Eh, air balloons crash" or "that sounds lame."

Other times, at random, they might accidentally add to the Fe (which the Fe people like)"let's do body shots!" They can add to the Fe when they feel like it, or when they are drunk.

When they don't feel like it, they will say something horrible.

Which is awkward and the Fe-valuers will be like "umm...huh? Why would you say that right then? Are you trying to piss us off?" (they won't say that, but that will be their expression.

So, when everyone is raving about how great the wedding was, the SLI will laugh and say how the food was just terrible and they should get a refund (to the Fe horror of the married couple who spent lots money on that food).

Or accepting a gift basket, and the host is also offering additional take-home food "Oh I don't eat nuts, and I don't like cheese, so I won't really eat any of this." (ah...hmmm...awkward...)

Or meeting a someone new, and they don't feel like talking, so they just don't say anything.

Though strangely, an ISTj girl I know appears to value Fi by talking about the relationship and saying that she can tell some people put more effort into getting to know her, and she values that, where as others don't seem to really "care" about the relationship. Though she's still all about Fe of course.

And I've known ISTps who don't really get Fi at all, and will sorta put everyone on the same level. Like giving a nice gift, gesture, to one "close" friend and then doing the same thing to someone they barely know. Which makes it seem like the other relationship isn't any closer at all.

Yes I think you have the idea right, from my experience. Fe-PoLRs will easily detract from the positive spirit of the collective conversation. They won't really fit comfortably anywhere into it, and people won't like that about them. That is more or less what PoLR is, seeing and being affected by just the negative in that function, and still having a basic natural disrespect for it, treating it insignificantly.

[Park]

Or accepting a gift basket, and the host is also offering additional take-home food "Oh I don't eat nuts, and I don't like cheese, so I won't really eat any of this." (ah...hmmm...awkward...)

ahahahahahaha that's totally me

Though strangely, an ISTj girl I know appears to value Fi by talking about the relationship and saying that she can tell some people put more effort into getting to know her, and she values that, where as others don't seem to really "care" about the relationship. Though she's still all about Fe of course.

Sounds consistent with Fi as a role function.

[jughead]

Or accepting a gift basket, and the host is also offering additional take-home food "Oh I don't eat nuts, and I don't like cheese, so I won't really eat any of this." (ah...hmmm...awkward...)

Hmmm i might do that too but it all depends on who is offering. If that happened I would scan the basket without them looking if I could and see the value of the stuff to myself and politely refuse or accept. Frankly I often refuse because they will insist and when its just the right level of insistence thats when you take it.

[Park]

Frankly I often refuse because they will insist and when its just the right level of insistence thats when you take it.

I've always hated that. Seems totally fake and pointless. From both sides. Well, unless the one who insists really wants you to have what they are offering/giving you, and its not just pretense or fake politeness.

[Satan]

When I think of Fe polr, I think of a SLI who makes a comment that is not "appropriate."

For instance, everyone is saying how great air balloons are. They are "excited" and there is an Fe cloud of "OMG! air balloons are the best!! We should do it!"

Then the SLI will (sometimes) say something that deflates it "Eh, air balloons crash" or "that sounds lame."

Other times, at random, they might accidentally add to the Fe (which the Fe people like)"let's do body shots!" They can add to the Fe when they feel like it, or when they are drunk.

When they don't feel like it, they will say something horrible.

Which is awkward and the Fe-valuers will be like "umm...huh? Why would you say that right then? Are you trying to piss us off?" (they won't say that, but that will be their expression.

So, when everyone is raving about how great the wedding was, the SLI will laugh and say how the food was just terrible and they should get a refund (to the Fe horror of the married couple who spent lots money on that food).

Or accepting a gift basket, and the host is also offering additional take-home food "Oh I don't eat nuts, and I don't like cheese, so I won't really eat any of this." (ah...hmmm...awkward...)

Or meeting a someone new, and they don't feel like talking, so they just don't say anything.

Though strangely, an ISTj girl I know appears to value Fi by talking about the relationship and saying that she can tell some people put more effort into getting to know her, and she values that, where as others don't seem to really "care" about the relationship. Though she's still all about Fe of course.

And I've known ISTps who don't really get Fi at all, and will sorta put everyone on the same level. Like giving a nice gift, gesture, to one "close" friend and then doing the same thing to someone they barely know. Which makes it seem like the other relationship isn't any closer at all.

actually, i can identify with some of those things myself.

i must be istp then

like meeting someone new, and not saying anything if i don't think they're going to be interesting. or ignoring people in a group. i suppose it depends on the type of Fe atmosphere. some are just pointless and pathetic.

[Morcheeba]

I can relate to those examples you shared, and I'm dominant, go figure.

[Nexus]

if you want to see PoLR just watch family guy

[1981slater]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...olr-fe-fi.html

Peter Griffin: ILE with a huge Fi polr!

[Nexus]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...olr-fe-fi.html

Peter Griffin: ILE with a huge Fi polr!

good call; I have been seeing ENTps everywhere lately, they can really get on your nerves; I tend to like subs more (no offense, you seem like an sub to me), but ISFps have a way of making me totally sick after a while...

[1981slater]

good call; I have been seeing ENTps everywhere lately, they can really get on your nerves; I tend to like subs more (no offense, you seem like an sub to me), but ISFps have a way of making me totally sick after a while...

ILEs drive people mad, that's for sure!
I find it really funny that, whereas people tend to strongly dislike ILEs, most TV series with ILE characters have massive audiences (with watchers from all quadras).

[crazedrat]

looks sort of like napoleon dynamite.

[Creepy-female]

actually, i can identify with some of those things myself.

i must be istp then

like meeting someone new, and not saying anything if i don't think they're going to be interesting. or ignoring people in a group. i suppose it depends on the type of Fe atmosphere. some are just pointless and pathetic.

Well ime you're doing right now what I've seen a lot of xLEs do..they kind of make these objective broad social rules, for lack of a better descriptor. It reminds me of that SLE matchmaker that Starfall posted about..I saw a few of her episodes the other day..and she was always about saying general guidelines for relationships and what things meant. She had objective criteria but would explain things in a larger context.

xLIs are like jewels described, they're like the unintentioned hitch at the party because they have no way to guage Fe. So it can be really hit or miss, and become a sour note to the atmosphere. Or when they get it right it can be like a funny accident. Because you know most of them don't intend to be the big hit when they stumble into some comment. They are very aware of how they feel on a personal level, and will put more priority on that. So it's better to put them in an environment that has links to their interests, where people will be considerate and adapt to them. They're like cute oblivious turtles. Keep in mind that they're also Ips, so they look more subdued overall in relation to their environment than the Fi polr Eps.

xLEs are more aware of their overall effect on an atmosphere, all the while being unable to realize how how their decisions and behavior personally affect both themselves and others. This often manifests as unforseen emotional consequences and fallout later, for example, at parties they're often the loud or clever ones trying to get noticed by their antics and dialogue, working their way into a position of power/esteem by their commentary/behavior, but they're not good at seeing they personally offended someone or accidentally trampled on a bond. It reminds me of the way Silverchris described Fi in that thread. Fi says stuff like "You can't do that to a human" but xLEs don't have much concept of that especially when in group mode. They're obnoxious in a different way than xLIs because get any kind of Fe atmosphere going and they become distructive/oblivious about personal relationships. Not the things you make objective rules about..but the things that you just know intuitively would hurt another person, so you don't act that way. Like the xLEs I've known have been good at making objective statements categorizing some sort of social ettiquete/behavior. The way they deal with their Fi polr is to justify everything they do into neat categories.

I've seen my ILE friend get into huge fights with people because she started out clowning around making funny, crowd pleasing statements that were subjectively hurtful to the people involved. She would just keep going and pushing and didn't know when to back off, and then when people retaliated, she would act surprised and confused and hurt, like "they are saying bad things about me. they aren't allowed to say those things. defend me" when really it was like she had been goading them the whole time. And it was hard to explain to her that she had an equal effect on the people she had been pissing off, because she didn't define objectively what she was doing as hurtful. In her mind she was just catering to the Fe atmosphere, and they attacked her for no reason. One on one she used her objective rules very often but you could tell they had less weight and at times she was largely helpless against subjective personal evaluations.

[Suz]

Fo shizzle. Family Guy is so Alpha, it makes me want to vomit. :not a fan:

Yeah i'm not a fan of the show myself. I think it's ridiculously stupid.

Jay Leno, on the other hand, love him! He's ILE isn't he?

[redbaron]

Yeah i'm not a fan of the show myself. I think it's ridiculously stupid.

Jay Leno, on the other hand, love him! He's ILE isn't he?

I prefer Conan.

[Nexus]

Well ime you're doing right now what I've seen a lot of xLEs do..they kind of make these objective broad social rules, for lack of a better descriptor. It reminds me of that SLE matchmaker that Starfall posted about..I saw a few of her episodes the other day..and she was always about saying general guidelines for relationships and what things meant. She had objective criteria but would explain things in a larger context.

xLIs are like jewels described, they're like the unintentioned hitch at the party because they have no way to guage Fe. So it can be really hit or miss, and become a sour note to the atmosphere. Or when they get it right it can be like a funny accident. Because you know most of them don't intend to be the big hit when they stumble into some comment. They are very aware of how they feel on a personal level, and will put more priority on that. So it's better to put them in an environment that has links to their interests, where people will be considerate and adapt to them. They're like cute oblivious turtles. Keep in mind that they're also Ips, so they look more subdued overall in relation to their environment than the Fi polr Eps.

xLEs are more aware of their overall effect on an atmosphere, all the while being unable to realize how how their decisions and behavior personally affect both themselves and others. This often manifests as unforseen emotional consequences and fallout later, for example, at parties they're often the loud or clever ones trying to get noticed by their antics and dialogue, working their way into a position of power/esteem by their commentary/behavior, but they're not good at seeing they personally offended someone or accidentally trampled on a bond. It reminds me of the way Silverchris described Fi in that thread. Fi says stuff like "You can't do that to a human" but xLEs don't have much concept of that especially when in group mode. They're obnoxious in a different way than xLIs because get any kind of Fe atmosphere going and they become distructive/oblivious about personal relationships. Not the things you make objective rules about..but the things that you just know intuitively would hurt another person, so you don't act that way. Like the xLEs I've known have been good at making objective statements categorizing some sort of social ettiquete/behavior. The way they deal with their Fi polr is to justify everything they do into neat categories.

I've seen my ILE friend get into huge fights with people because she started out clowning around making funny, crowd pleasing statements that were subjectively hurtful to the people involved. She would just keep going and pushing and didn't know when to back off, and then when people retaliated, she would act surprised and confused and hurt, like "they are saying bad things about me. they aren't allowed to say those things. defend me" when really it was like she had been goading them the whole time. And it was hard to explain to her that she had an equal effect on the people she had been pissing off, because she didn't define objectively what she was doing as hurtful. In her mind she was just catering to the Fe atmosphere, and they attacked her for no reason. One on one she used her objective rules very often but you could tell they had less weight and at times she was largely helpless against subjective personal evaluations.

that was very insightful; sometimes when I get attention now I lose control like an PoLR, but I guess it's more due to my constant military training and the people I see on a regular basis...we are taught to filter ideas with a Beta-ish IM because there is so much information to process...a serious IP would never make it in all the

[thePirate]

why dont you flesh that out hubitch, as I have a hunch you dont know what the fuck your talking about

[Absurd]

if you want to see PoLR just watch family guy

Peter Griffin: ILE with a huge Fi polr!

Fo shizzle. Family Guy is so Alpha, it makes me want to vomit. :not a fan:

Yeah i'm not a fan of the show myself. I think it's ridiculously stupid.

Amen to that!

[ArchonAlarion]

Family Guy is Alpha-Beta rational. Maybe just Beta rational. It's okay, but doesn't do much for me.

[krieger]

I actually hate that show, except for certain parts with Stewy and Brian but even those are overrated. It's annoying. Not great like King of the Hill or older Simpsons... *sigh*

True words.

None of the ENTps here on the forum, or any that I know in real life are anything like Peter Griffin. I much prefer to call him ESFp.

[krieger]

None of the ESFps on this forum

Like which? There aren't any on the forum. When I use the argument in regard to ENTps people can instantly pick up on it. Where these Peter Griffin like ENTps? I don't see them around here.

[ArchonAlarion]

Peter Griffin is a doofus and untypeable.

[jughead]

The usual Warning; This is a mini rant on Fe polrs and any weak Fe type really and though true, is subjective will probably be offensive to them and is essentially shit talking.

Typical Fe polr or even role:
They act butthurt and think I'm a wierdo if I add any dramatic effect, pepper in jokes, embellishments etc. If I say anything thats not literally true (even with FUCKING OBVIOUS voice tone or modulation for effect) they just fucking don't get it. Fe roles will give a tiny bit of acknoledegment but totally fucking distort the essence and make a shitty fucking joke. Again they act paranoid around any Fe they haven't seen or expirienced. A fe creative could be trolling the polr and they would just take you literally. ILI's seem to not understand personal emotions as being as a complex physical, emotional dynamic mechanism.
Seriously you may be Fe polr but don't act like a fucking moron and think Fe types are wierd MMK? Thank you, don't come again, fuckoff.
Simple example that non Fe types will still manage to criticize and not understand:
Me: What can I marinate portabello mushroms in?
ILI: (in slow measured, low key speech): You could use soy sauce
Me interjecting quickly: Ugh I can't handle soy sauce right now. (*Wretch*)
Him: What? Cue irrelevant body of NiTe information to try and convice me that theres no logical reason to wretch from soy sauce.
Me: your a fucking idiot.

[Park]

I say things that are not literally true for dramatic effect sometimes. Am I Fe PoLR? Yes. Do I like soy sauce? I sure as fuck do.

[Creepy-]

Why are you so mad?

EDIT: Also, why couldn't you handle soy sauce?

[EyeSeeCold]

Why are you so mad?

[Korpsy Knievel]

Corrected:

Me: In what can I marinate portabello mushrooms?
ILI, in slow, measured, low-key speech: You could use soy sauce.
Me, interjecting quickly: Ugh I can't handle soy sauce right now. (*retch*)
Him: What? [Cue irrelevant body of NiTe information to try convincing me that there's no logical reason to retch from soy sauce.]
Me: You're a fucking idiot.

[717495]

elings

[jughead]

yes feelings.
i think i finally had a breakthrough with ashton.

[rat1]

Fe polrs have an agenda for what they want to talk about, and it seems unaffected by whether you care or even need to hear it. Also they will selectively acknowledge what you say to them.

[EyeSeeCold]

A fe creative could be trolling the polr and they would just take you literally.

Lol I was trolling you about prostates and you took it literally.

Also:

Fe polrs have an agenda for what they want to talk about, and it seems unaffected by whether you care or even need to hear it. Also they will selectively acknowledge what you say to them.

[ashlesha]

EDIT: Also, why couldn't you handle soy sauce?

lol

Fe polr is awesome.

[jessica129]

Fe polr is taking everything literally? I missed that.

[ashlesha]

Fe polr is taking everything literally?

yes.

[jessica129]

So is that true or am I just taking you too literally?

[ashlesha]

So is that true or am I just taking you too literally?

i was fucking with you. lol now i feel bad. sorry

i think taking things too literally can be one manifestation of Fe polr but not what Fe polr IS.

[717495]

So is that true or am I just taking you too literally?