Fe PoLR: how does it show in ISTps and INTps?

[Slacker]

Wanting someone to be happy, or at least pretend to, in order to improve the overall mood of someplace is very much Fe.

Fi might more have been if the other person had been careful with how she said anything about it because she was afraid she might hurt Mea's feelings. Or the bad side of Fi might have been if Person A hadn't said anything outright but had tried to manipulate Mea or made her feel guilty in order to get her to behave differently. But it would have been more about using her relationship with Mea to get her to do something, either nicely or not. And for people who prefer Fi, the overall mood wouldn't have been a major concern anyway.

Anyway, obviously not all Fe-dominant people are as rude as Person A, and Fe-promoting behavior wouldn't have to be rude by a long shot; it can be done very gracefully. Therefore, this isn't a particularly good example of Fe because even people who like Fe might be put off by the rudeness.

[Blaze]

agree with cracka. if i was person A, i'd have said to my friend something like "i don't think Mea's getting what you're saying" or something like that. then i'd have been dealing with the issue right then.

what i see as rude is how person A comes back to you later about it and makes it a global criticism. also since it lets you know that they were talking about you behind your back. wtf why can't the person is question just say something why do they need person A to run interference for them?

[Creepy-pokeball]

Is this an Fe PoLR hit?

Person A: You need to be more conscious of your body language when talking to other people. Even if you're not interested in what the person has to say, you have to act like you are, it is only polite.

Person B: But I don't care for what that person has to say. I asked a question, and she wasn't answering my question, and was being irrelevant. I don't intend to act interested when I'm not.

Person A: But you have to. You're not very good at dealing with people at all. That's something you have to be better at. It is essential.

I ignore people when theyre talking. It's not about so called "Fe", but rather having to listen to pointless information It is kinda like saying, "Hey, Im not gonna condition you into thinking I care when this is obviously redundant. Also, you're interrupting my daydreaming time "

I dunno about POLR hits tho. It always just comes off as horrid miscommunication irl, rather than something that sounds like a grenade being thrown...

[Ezra]

you don't have an Fe polr. you have it as dual-seeking as you always want people to have joyful times around, where a lot of laughter and emotional talk and behavior is involved, deeply spiritual or dramatic though or just pure romantic, Se Fe external world. you love when someone is being honest and direct with you, using dynamic imagination and bringing you to various weird emotional states that shake you up and make you feel alive.

You're missing the point. Basically, I'm apparently part of a Fe/Ti valuing quadra. However, I agree with what Mea said; hence, how can it possibly be related to Fe PoLR.

[Ezra]

No, you just have weak and unconscious Fe which means you just don't think about it sometimes. Did it really piss you off that you were corrected, or were you maybe glad that it happened so you can maybe recognize that kind of thing better in the future? Even if the situation isn't necessarily analagous?

To be honest, it annoyed me. It was like a crab, picking at me.

[Mea]

When I read this it felt like the person who told you that had a reason to say this to you, but it wasn't something that would be brought up just from them seeing the conversation. Then I read the quote you wrote below and it made much more sense. They only mentioned it because the other person got mad that you seemed not to care about what they were saying. This person being their best friend was the one who they bitched about this to, which in turn... was brought back your way in that conversation. Remember, as the person's so called "best friend" they'd side with them and let you know about pissing their friend off and how...

My friend is actually closer to me than his best friend. He wasn't siding anyone. He genuinely felt that I was rude.

And I wasn't pissed. I was more confused and kinda hurt. Like why would such a small thing bother her so much.

The best thing you could have done was say just that, "well, she wasn't saying anything I needed to know and speaking about things totally irrelevant that I didn't need to know." It seems as though the person that was teaching you or whatever really must have noticed that you didn't want to listen to what she was saying because she actually did bring it up to their friend to let you know it pissed them off.
I'm more of a forward person in this type of situation though, I can read body language considerably well and if this were something that I noticed when talking to someone I'd bring it up and ask instead of just getting irritated and bitching to my friend about it later. In your case I would have said, is something wrong, or am I missing something. To which I'd hope you would say, "I already know what you're telling me... this is what I need to know....."

In the end I can see where you may have come across as rude to this person but if you had your reason to then I'd voice that to your friend who brought it up to you and let them know why... I'm sure it would make it's way back to their friend.
I also see a little rudeness about the way it was brought up to you though, there should have been a little more tact used in telling you about how you were being rude to them by not seeming interested. As it seems though, they brought it to your attention because they see you and the other person as their friends and would rather not have some crappy drama because the other person thinks you don't like them, so it was something they really felt needed to be brought up.
Or maybe I don't know anything and just felt like typing a bunch of words here. Oh, and this is just my take on it... I don't care about the Fe, Fi, Se, or wtf ever else here...lol

I did say something like "but what she was saying is not what I needed to know". And he was like "even then, you should be more polite and not keep looking away when someone is talking to you".

And when I said "yes, I already know what you're telling me, cuz you already covered it, what I'm trying to ask is... etc". And the response I got after that was "she's so unwilling to learn, I tell her something and she tells me she already knows, so what's the point of me saying anything".

Like seriously. WTF?! Actually, I get this kinda response from not only her, I'm starting to wonder if I really portray the "i-don't-care-what-you're-saying-cuz-I-already-know" and "person-with-no-social-etiquette" image.

[cracka]

Hmm, I couldn't tell ya... but happy new year.

[Mea]

Hmm, I couldn't tell ya... but happy new year.

Hehe. Same to ya.

[cracka]

Hehe. Same to ya.

much appreciated.

my new years only about 3 and a half hours old... I bet it's already in the afternoon where you're at huh?

[Mea]

much appreciated.

my new years only about 3 and a half hours old... I bet it's already in the afternoon where you're at huh?

Haha. Evening actually. 7:40pm.

[discojoe]

Is this an Fe PoLR hit?

Person A: You need to be more conscious of your body language when talking to other people. Even if you're not interested in what the person has to say, you have to act like you are, it is only polite.

Person B: But I don't care for what that person has to say. I asked a question, and she wasn't answering my question, and was being irrelevant. I don't intend to act interested when I'm not.

Person A: But you have to. You're not very good at dealing with people at all. That's something you have to be better at. It is essential.

Yeah, but that's sort of a generic representation of it. It's basically when their practical sense overrides their perception of what their behavior looks like.

As an example, I was at a Christmas party a couple days ago, and Joy's INTp brother asked if there was anymore wine, and her ENFj cousin said it was all gone except for what was in her glass, and then she offered to pour out half of its contents into his glass. You're obviously supposed to say no to such an offer, but his response? "Sure, I'll take some."

I was embarrassed for him.

My ISTp dad also offers people foot massages sometimes, and I have no idea what he's thinking.

[Ezra]

As an example, I was at a Christmas party a couple days ago, and Joy's INTp brother asked if there was anymore wine, and her ENFj cousin said it was all gone except for what was in her glass, and then she offered to pour out half of its contents into his glass. You're obviously supposed to say no to such an offer, but his response? "Sure, I'll take some."

I don't understand what's wrong with that.

[xyz]

I don't know about Fi vs Fe, all I know is if you followed Person A's advice, you're basically lying to whoever you're talking to. Sides the person should fucking know how to read your body language.

[snegledmaca]

Is this an Fe PoLR hit?

Person A: You need to be more conscious of your body language when talking to other people. Even if you're not interested in what the person has to say, you have to act like you are, it is only polite.

Person B: But I don't care for what that person has to say. I asked a question, and she wasn't answering my question, and was being irrelevant. I don't intend to act interested when I'm not.

Person A: But you have to. You're not very good at dealing with people at all. That's something you have to be better at. It is essential.

What the fuck? She should be apologizing to you for making you not pay attention to her. If she is incapable of keeping your attention then she doesn't deserve it. Also, she's the one who is impolite, continuing to bore a person out of their skull after they see they are boring them out of their skull. Talk about being inconsiderate. And to have the audacity to blame you for their poor people skills, how incredibly conceited. Somebody she tech her manners.

Great. That happened to me today. Me as person B.

It totally irritated me that him & his best friend felt that I need to be better at showing "better body language"
And he told me that I gave her an impression that I was not interested in what she had to teach me, that was the reason why she did not tell me many things. Seriously, I ask her a question, and she started talking about something totally irrelevant to my question, repeating it again and again. Even when I tried to divert it back to what I was trying to find out, she went on about her point thinking she was already answering my question which totally frustrated me.
And all I did was look away occasionally, not like I wasn't listening. And she told him that I was being rude to her and that I don't care enough or some bullshit. URGH!

Gah, I fucking hate, hate, HATE ESE-s! I've just spent the holidays back home, with my ESE mother, just like the person you are describing. Indescribably annoying. And they can never fucking shut up. They just keep going on and on about some inane bullshit and when you stop paying attention, much like you did, and for the same reason, I was not interested in what they had to say, they take it as some sort of personal insult. As if I've spat in their face. Which I become seriously tempted to do when she starts purring the crap your ESE started to pour onto you. Gaaaah! The only thing that comforts me is that I cause her as much pain and torment and suffering through my actions as she does to me with her actions. Truly, ESE-s are something straight out of heel for me. But then I look at that lovely show, the cosby show, and he is such a nice, nice man and I wonder why aren't all ESE-s like that? Why isn't she smart and intelligent? Why is she backward? Why is her mind closed shut? Why does she have no ability to consider another's point of view? Why? .... yeah, run away from that person, if you haven't already after that incident. They will never realize your stance on the issue, no matter how much you try to explain things to them. It's literally like trying to explain complex philosophy to somebody mentally challenged, they just have no grasp of certain elementary concepts. They pretty much peaked with the cliques of high school and their mind is closed shut for life and that will never change, there is no such thing as changing them or them growing, developing as people in any way. (Not that all ESE-s are like this, but the kind you met is)

[tcaudilllg]

Well now if all ENFjs want to raise people's moods to the highest points possible; and ESFjs are always seeing people's down moods and thinking about how to cheer them up; then, what would we say about someone who saw people in good cheer, and wanted to depress their mood, and made a plan for this; or someone who saw someone in a stable mood, and decided to stir up some strife just to spoil that person's day?

Who are those people?

[Mea]

Gah, I fucking hate, hate, HATE ESE-s! I've just spent the holidays back home, with my ESE mother, just like the person you are describing. Indescribably annoying. And they can never fucking shut up. They just keep going on and on about some inane bullshit and when you stop paying attention, much like you did, and for the same reason, I was not interested in what they had to say, they take it as some sort of personal insult. As if I've spat in their face. Which I become seriously tempted to do when she starts purring the crap your ESE started to pour onto you. Gaaaah! The only thing that comforts me is that I cause her as much pain and torment and suffering through my actions as she does to me with her actions. Truly, ESE-s are something straight out of heel for me. But then I look at that lovely show, the cosby show, and he is such a nice, nice man and I wonder why aren't all ESE-s like that? Why isn't she smart and intelligent? Why is she backward? Why is her mind closed shut? Why does she have no ability to consider another's point of view? Why? .... yeah, run away from that person, if you haven't already after that incident. They will never realize your stance on the issue, no matter how much you try to explain things to them. It's literally like trying to explain complex philosophy to somebody mentally challenged, they just have no grasp of certain elementary concepts. They pretty much peaked with the cliques of high school and their mind is closed shut for life and that will never change, there is no such thing as changing them or them growing, developing as people in any way. (Not that all ESE-s are like this, but the kind you met is)

Wow. That is exactly like my mom! And all the ESEs I know IRL.

[Logos]

Gah, I fucking hate, hate, HATE ESE-s! I've just spent the holidays back home, with my ESE mother, just like the person you are describing. Indescribably annoying. And they can never fucking shut up. They just keep going on and on about some inane bullshit and when you stop paying attention, much like you did, and for the same reason, I was not interested in what they had to say, they take it as some sort of personal insult. As if I've spat in their face. Which I become seriously tempted to do when she starts purring the crap your ESE started to pour onto you. Gaaaah! The only thing that comforts me is that I cause her as much pain and torment and suffering through my actions as she does to me with her actions. Truly, ESE-s are something straight out of heel for me. But then I look at that lovely show, the cosby show, and he is such a nice, nice man and I wonder why aren't all ESE-s like that? Why isn't she smart and intelligent? Why is she backward? Why is her mind closed shut? Why does she have no ability to consider another's point of view? Why? .... yeah, run away from that person, if you haven't already after that incident. They will never realize your stance on the issue, no matter how much you try to explain things to them. It's literally like trying to explain complex philosophy to somebody mentally challenged, they just have no grasp of certain elementary concepts. They pretty much peaked with the cliques of high school and their mind is closed shut for life and that will never change, there is no such thing as changing them or them growing, developing as people in any way. (Not that all ESE-s are like this, but the kind you met is)

It is kind of hard to believe that you truly believe what you say in the parentheses when you begin the way you did in the bold that you "fucking hate, hate, HATE ESE-s!" in a manner that has completely affected your views regarding them to this extent. I am not sure that you have ESE issues as much as you do mother issues which you seemingly juxtapose upon other ESEs.

Wow. That is exactly like my mom! And all the ESEs I know IRL.

Wow. That is definitely not like all the ESEs I know IRL.

[Mea]

Wow. That is definitely not like all the ESEs I know IRL.

I think that's just you point of view because you get along with them better.

I have never gotten along well with any ESE IRL unless we're super polite to each other.

IME, ESEs talk too much, never listen, well maybe they do, but only to the sound of their own voice. I usually get irrelevant answers when I ask them really specific questions. AND they can never seem to understand me when I'm explaining something to them. I have to repeat like 5 times.

And they're always saying that I don't smile enough, and that I'm too cold and unemotional. Or that I don't react when they try to "cheer me up". Like excuse me~ I'm not even upset! And they're always assuming that I'm sad for some reason.

[Logos]

I think that's just you point of view because you get along with them better.

Your supreme insight has baffled me out of my own ignorance. Who would have thought that it is just my point of view? Who would have thought that I get along with them better? I suppose that means that I should let people walk over ESEs with their misunderstandings of them since it is my point of view because I get along with them better. But if we claim to be talking about the same subject, but the observed mannerisms of subject in question do not match, then the question is raised as to whether or not the subject is really the same or whether one or both parties has misunderstandings of the subject.

I have never gotten along well with any ESE IRL unless we're super polite to each other.

Okay. And I have never gotten along well with any idiot IRL unless they kept their mouth shut when around me.

IME, ESEs talk too much, never listen, well maybe they do, but only to the sound of their own voice.

Really? I wonder, who in this relationship is in fact failing to listen? The ESE or you? ESEs are better listeners than you give them credit. You seem to presuming too much about about ESEs without any understanding of them. ESEs only liking to listen to the sound of their own voice? Seriously? Come on, there's a one-sided view if I ever saw one. Well how well do you listen to what an ESE says? Perfectly, I'm sure. Where is your great to see alternate points of view? Where is your to see how the ESE makes personal connections and shapes the relationships that exist between people?

I usually get irrelevant answers when I ask them really specific questions. AND they can never seem to understand me when I'm explaining something to them. I have to repeat like 5 times.

What the hell? No really. What the hell? Do you know how many times I have to explain things to an IEE? Honestly it is like talking to a child sometimes. Do you know what kind of irrelevant crap I get from IEE when I ask them a specific question? Do you realize how many IEEs do not even bother listening to what I say at all? Obviously the problem lies with the IEE and not myself, because I could never be in error or take the wrong approach when dealing with other people. Everything the IEE says must be irrelevant as it is not relevant to me or how I expected and wanted them to answer.

And they're always saying that I don't smile enough, and that I'm too cold and unemotional. Or that I don't react when they try to "cheer me up". Like excuse me~ I'm not even upset! And they're always assuming that I'm sad for some reason.

I don't see how your assumptions about them are that much better.

But you are free to dismiss my entire post as the credibility of what I have to say can easily be waved away since it is just my point of view because I get along better with them. It is obvious as to whose point of view matters most here as to the nature of ESEs, so I'm sorry that I bothered to participate or chime in the discussion.

[Mea]

Wow. All I'm saying is I think inter-type relations might play a part in this.

I did not mean to offend. I just meant that you may get along better with them because you're their dual and welcome their Fe.

And I'm not even sure about being IEE anymore.
Of course it is possible that you having to explain something many times to an IEE might be because of their Ti PoLR or their plain stupidity. I am not implying that ESEs are dumb, just saying it's possibly miscommunication.

And about the ESEs I'm referring to, I am not the only one who agrees with their inability to listen. Of course if I was referring to ALL ESEs, it IS a one-sided view, I did say IME at the start and NOT EVERYONE feels the same way about them.

*sigh* I am not assuming anything. I'm simply sharing my experience with them In My Experience.

[snegledmaca]

It is kind of hard to believe that you truly believe what you say in the parentheses when you begin the way you did in the bold that you "fucking hate, hate, HATE ESE-s!" in a manner that has completely affected your views regarding them to this extent. I am not sure that you have ESE issues as much as you do mother issues which you seemingly juxtapose upon other ESEs.

You are right, I should have stated that I hate a certain kind of ESE. I like the kind of people bill cosby is and if I met that kind of ESE in real life I would have no problem with them. But I know two other ESE-s, one female and one male. The female one is a carbon copy of my mother, the male one is, well in my opinion, a piece of shit as a human being. He mostly consists of being loud, obnoxious and insulting other people for no reason, vicious, vile, venomous remarks (not even to put them down, to boast his own ego because there is an EIE he hangs with who does it for that reason. He says it because that's what he seriously thinks, all those absolutely horrid things he says). It's almost like a waste of a person.

Also, it's not that "I have something against ESE-s" here, I have similar feelings to other fucked up versions of types as well. The wastes of human beings that do nothing but spread misery around them and propel human development backwards.

Wow. That is definitely not like all the ESEs I know IRL.

Consider yourself lucky then.

IME, ESEs talk too much, never listen, well maybe they do, but only to the sound of their own voice. I usually get irrelevant answers when I ask them really specific questions. AND they can never seem to understand me when I'm explaining something to them. I have to repeat like 5 times.

I should frame this for the amount of truth in such a small volume.

And they're always saying that I don't smile enough, and that I'm too cold and unemotional. Or that I don't react when they try to "cheer me up". Like excuse me~ I'm not even upset! And they're always assuming that I'm sad for some reason.

Totally! And the peak is when they start saying how why am I so upset, why am I being nervous, there is something wrong with me, this comes after them pissing me off big time. It's like somebody incredibly cruel is playing a joke on me except that they are serious and do not for one second even consider that something might be wrong with *them*. They do not see that their behavior is the cause of the illness they keep ascribing to me.

But regarding the facial expressions, the approachableness, I get that as well. Apparently I'm too unapproachable and should open up more. This blunt violation of privacy of sticking her nose where it doesn't belong as I actually control how open I am to people makes me close up even more which makes her more convinced she is right because she is my mother and I am not spilling my guts out to her, not being mentally naked in front of her. I find this attitude of hers demented. Basically, because I'm not doing it her way there is something wrong with me. Actually, in essence everything she complains about she assumes. It's like they have no capacity for objective factual interpretation. The way the conversation starts is usually she stating something as a fact and me replying something along the line of where did you pull that from, your ass. For example, I am going outside and she say wear something extra it's cold outside, and I get outside and realize it's fucking hot, the sun is shining bright and temperature is high. The thing is she didn't bother herself with actual data, facts when giving the advice, she did not go to the balcony to check where it really was cold, she just assumed it was because it is winter. All of her advice is bogus like that. She never checks whether anything she says is actually true. I'm seriously scared what would happen to a person if they were to follow her advice. And when I question her on the validity of her assumptions she always uses the same inane argument. Other people are doing it. Every-singly-time! Should I do this, check if other people are doing it, should I wear this, nobody your age is wearing it, I saw them on the street. It's like no link to reality. She simply assumes reality and that's it, that's how she functions.


.......

Ok, this is how ESE-s are to me. They take it as their inherent right to stick their nose into everybody's business. When you don't let them they respond by making vile, venomous remarks about you, in front and behind your back. Something utterly horrid. Here's an everyday example. My mother doesn't like dogs because of an incident when she was younger and when a person is walking their dog on the street and if the dog is near to her, or heaven forbid off it's leash, she has no reservation to start pouring venomous remarks to the dog owner about the dog, about their irresponsibility. And she keeps it going for a long time though, after the dog owner has left, to give he stance on the thing. She also has no reservations of giving her side of the story to other people as well, of repeating it several times, especially if the otehr person is in the company, so that everybody know good and well what kind of person the other person is. You know people say types are the ones that are aggressive, that is so wrong. ESE-s are by far the most aggressive type. They may not be physically aggressive, but they are venomous snakes.

My mother is the nicest kindest person with the most pure of intentions but she is like the embodiment of the saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's like you break a leg and they want to massage it to make you feel better. Actually we have a term for such a counter service, a bear favor, as in it does more harm then good. Their help most of the time is like adding oil to the fire. It just burns more intensively and it hurts more and that in term, my suffering, makes them try harder which in term increases my suffering and the amplification circle is closed. They cause pain and suffering with their help and how they manage to do this *by default*, to be so toxic without even trying, like demonstrated in the situation with mea, I truly cannot comprehend.

[tcaudilllg]

And they're always saying that I don't smile enough, and that I'm too cold and unemotional. Or that I don't react when they try to "cheer me up". Like excuse me~ I'm not even upset! And they're always assuming that I'm sad for some reason.

Negative Fe. They want to see your feelings for someone match the size/scope of your attraction to them. It's an irrational imbalance to them that they feel they must correct in you.

[krieger]

Something that needs to be said: if there is any truth at all to gulenko's interpretation of the +/- signs (the stuff that hitta has been drawing our attention to), then the notion of an Fe PoLR is extremely misleading. One form of Fe (Fe-) might seem threatening to the INTp, but another form of it (Fe+, particularly when produced by gamma SF's) only sustains their hidden agenda.

[cracka]

Wow. I'm not about to start quoting things here since there would be way too many and at this point, I don't feel it would be worth it. You have your opinions and I can't see anyone ever changing them. It's sad really.

You both pretty much say "I don't mean to offend" but clearly there's no way that's true. It's easy for a person to not like their parents... no matter what type they are... I think parents are supposed to get on your nerves, it's just how the world is. They could be your dual and most people still would have problems with their parents. If you're going to relate all ESE's to a shitty relationship with your mother's then I'd like to be the first to point out that nothing good can come of it. It's like comparing all people of one type to the worst example of that type and thinking bad about every person of that type.
Mea, At one point it was said that "friend" A was an ESFJ... how much of a friend can you possibly be if your views of them are anything near as bad as you've expressed here? Oh that's right, the ESE is the one that talks shit about their "friends" my bad...

Ah, well I just realized that I'd rather not spend any more of my time on this since I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears anyway. You both said not all ESE's are very bad people but it was clearly meant... as soon as you figure out that they are not, then I'd hope you actually notice it instead of seeing what you need to to keep that opinion of them up.

[Blaze]

well i'm glad cracka said something in defense of esfj's esp since i've been looking to get around to it also.

i happen to really like them. they are so easy to get along with. they are totally helpful and giving. it's like they can give and give and give because it's almost like they are so comfortable in their own skins....everybody benefits around them. my 10 year old is an esfj and she's soooo great i just love her to death. she's so emotionally smart already even at her age. some things she knows about people better than i do, at 33 years her senior.

i agree that any parent is going to seem like a pain in the ass no matter what their type.

[cracka]

well i'm glad cracka said something in defense of esfj's esp since i've been looking to get around to it also.

I was waiting because I didn't really want to come across as mean and judgmental towards them and prove all their bad thoughts about my type correct. Personally, I've always liked Mea and never had anything against Sneg. Their posts here just seemed "wrong" in the sense that they compared ALL ESE's to a few that have wronged them.

[Slacker]

I like ESFjs too. I don't get the negativity at all. My mother-in-law is one and she's wonderful. And my maternal grandmother was one and she was really cool. Anyway, I just like them, generally speaking. I'll admit that they're both a bit nosy, but I think it's genuine concern more than nosiness.

I feel like a broken record sometimes, but there are healthy and unhealthy people of all types. How an unhealthy person is unhealthy might in part be determined by type, but whether a person is healthy or not isn't.

[snegledmaca]

Hey, I specifically said that if ESE-s could be like that bill cosby guy I'd love them. But the ones I know are gossiping, aggressive venomous snakes. Well, at least to me. Perhaps they are saints to someone else.

[Logos]

Hey, I specifically said that if ESE-s could be like that bill cosby guy I'd love them. But the ones I know are gossiping, aggressive venomous snakes. Well, at least to me. Perhaps they are saints to someone else.

Well if you spend your time looking for saints, your disappoint will only allow you to see sinners. No type is wholly good or bad; they are just people with all the inherent flaws and perks which that entails.

[discojoe]

Saying you don't like a type makes you appear foolish.

[BLauritson]

I've never had any serious conflict with an ESE personally. Provided both people can recognise that they're different from eachother and see the person behind the type, anyone can get along with eachother. Not to say that conflict relations are easy by any means, even if it's only subconsciously you've still got to be careful about what you say and do, but provided both partners are willing to make an effort, conflictors can get along pretty well as friends. Obviously I'm speaking here about a Long Psychological Distance relationship, I'd imagine things would be much more difficult in an SPD relationship but with some effort and understanding (one reason IMO why Socionics is so useful) you can get along with a person of any type, provided that person is willing to make the same effort. Obviously this doesn't mean you'll be able to get along with everyone in the whole world, but my point is that effort and understanding, in my experience at least, are keys to bypassing type limitations, even if only for LPD relationships and nothing more.

[Logos]

Saying you don't like a type makes you appear foolish.

Thank you for being another person who sees reason.

[Minde]

I like ESFjs too. I don't get the negativity at all. My mother-in-law is one and she's wonderful. And my maternal grandmother was one and she was really cool. Anyway, I just like them, generally speaking. I'll admit that they're both a bit nosy, but I think it's genuine concern more than nosiness.

I feel like a broken record sometimes, but there are healthy and unhealthy people of all types. How an unhealthy person is unhealthy might in part be determined by type, but whether a person is healthy or not isn't.

I agree completely. There's more to a person than just their personality.

One of my absolute closest friends is an ESFj and I love her dearly. She's a wonderful person with a kind heart and we get along great. Sure, she's not perfect, but I'd like to see anybody who is.

[Ms. Kensington]

I agree completely. There's more to a person than just their personality.

One of my absolute closest friends is an ESFj and I love her dearly. She's a wonderful person with a kind heart and we get along great. Sure, she's not perfect, but I'd like to see anybody who is.

O.O whoa that would be like utopia. ESFj laughing and picking flowers and INFjs smiling stoically while her hair blows in the wind at 2000 frames per second.

[UDP]

That's how it is in land.

*hands Ms. K a ticket to the secret train*

[Mea]

I was waiting because I didn't really want to come across as mean and judgmental towards them and prove all their bad thoughts about my type correct. Personally, I've always liked Mea and never had anything against Sneg. Their posts here just seemed "wrong" in the sense that they compared ALL ESE's to a few that have wronged them.

Hey I don't dislike you either.
I was only talking about the ESEs I know IRL.
And I did not say "I don't like ESEs". I just don't have any close friend who is one.

[redbaron]

As opposed to, say, Fi polr?

[Lobo]

You mean VI-wise? Or actions?

[redbaron]

everything I guess! But I was thinking more actions and words/interactions with others.

[Nexus]

POLRs have fake smiles
POLRs have fake frowns