View Poll Results: I vote for the abolishment of "extrovert" and "introvert"

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    5 35.71%
  • No

    9 64.29%
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Thread: Referendum: abolish extrovert and introvert

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  1. #1
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Default Referendum: abolish extrovert and introvert

    I propose the abolishment of the words "extrovert" and "introverted" in relation to Socionic. We should only use "extratim" and "introtim" and reserve "extravert" end "introvert" exclusively to point towards social orientation, i.e. in the sense Eysenck meant it.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  2. #2
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I propose the abolishment of the words "extrovert" and "introverted" in relation to Socionic. We should only use "extratim" and "introtim" and reserve "extravert" end "introvert" exclusively to point towards social orientation, i.e. in the sense Eysenck meant it.
    Hmm..yes and no, I can see why, but i'm more for no, because extratims tend to be extraverts anyway, but not always in perhaps the way Eysenck meant it, and end of day, it's not exactly..or should it be?..a socionic concentration camp

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    It would be quite pointless. Learning a slightly altered definition is not that hard; the MBTI also tries to hash out a new definition for both terms, but continues to use them. Secondly, they are very popular in their use and familiar to any newcomers, who can recognize the terms and have some idea of what they mean, even if that idea is not completely accurate as it applies to socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle View Post
    It would be quite pointless. Learning a slightly altered definition is not that hard; the MBTI also tries to hash out a new definition for both terms, but continues to use them. Secondly, they are very popular in their use and familiar to any newcomers, who can recognize the terms and have some idea of what they mean, even if that idea is not completely accurate as it applies to socionics.
    I do not agree: the extaversion/introversion dichotomy in MBTI is the same as Eysenck's and the Big5/FFM, and has only some correlation to extroversion/introversion according to Jung. Which is one of the reasons why MBTI is so fucked up, imho.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    What are the differences in MBTI and Jung definition of E and I?
    Jung speaks of attitude of a function, not merely social orientation. This was the starting ground for MBTI too, but in order to come up with a test, Meyers and her mother started splitting up things into dichotomies (failing to come up with a way of measuring functions), and in effect, accepted Eysenck's version of extroversion/introversion, which is about (measurable) social behavior, not about the focus on the exterior or interior world in relation to a function.

    The same was done with the Judging/Perceiving dichotomy, which is, in essence, the same as the conscientiousness dimension in FFM/Big5. This is only somewhat correlated to the concepts of Jungian rationality/irrationality.

    So, in MBTI we end up with two dimensions that do not correlate strongly with Socionic functions. MBTI is like apple pie where someone got the crazy idea that it should also contain pieces of pear, since they somewhat resemble apples, while still retaining the name "apple pie"
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

  6. #6
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Hehe, I deleted the question because I thought perhaps it wasn't too relevant to (I take it) sensible discussion, but I wasn't sure as I could see it applying..hehe am *I* Mr Decisive.

    Anyway, on reading Jung, he talks about extraversion introversion much the same way as MBTI does, and then moves on to functions, as I recall.

    Anyway, it's all good in the end

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    Pretty sure Jung coined the words first ..
    Anyway I propose we continue on not giving a fuck and let the INTjs melt down about it in their own little world

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Pretty sure Jung coined the words first ..
    Anyway I propose we continue on not giving a fuck and let the INTjs melt down about it in their own little world
    Why is it that you feel the need to put down LIIs? Have they been taking you from behind or something? You are a moderator here, aren't you? Tell us, do you think such statements are befitting of a moderator?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    I'm not a moderator, and I put everyone down because I'm a big bully with an empty heart. : (

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    I'm not a moderator, and I put everyone down because I'm a big bully with an empty heart. : (
    No, you're not. you're ILI, which means you are suggestive Se. Secretly, you are dying to be spanked!

    (just kidding, nothing personal).
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    if i were a woman i would of made some good pornos

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Pretty sure Jung coined the words first ..
    Anyway I propose we continue on not giving a fuck and let the INTjs melt down about it in their own little world
    lmao...exactly

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    Most of you are potential quacks and quacks in the making. The world needs less go-nowhere "psychologists" that think they're helping but really don't do jack shit, and more workers that actually mean something. But, machines and computers can replace all practical job anyway so I don't know. Social interactions sure are interesting. I think though, that simply most problems that stem from social situations have to do with where you desperately want others to see you for your inner worlds (as your introverted hobbies, that's how you get energy from yourself), but they can only judge you based on externally what you say and do.

    I think simply all problems we have with people is we all have a childlike, innocent urge for somebody to read our minds and really like us, but this is of course impossible.

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