Do you consider yourself to be more physically attractive than the average person?

[jason_m]

I'm probably below average. The fact is, I just don't put too much emphasis on my appearance. If I actually took care of myself beyond basic hygiene, then I don't know how I'd look. To me, looking good simply isn't important; the life of the mind has far more value to me than the aspects of the physical world. Looking good would probably be helpful for getting a girlfriend (as would be the social skills that I'm missing), but I have mixed feelings about the whole notion of relationships. On the one hand, I think it would be nice to be in a relationship. On the other hand, it seems to me that relationships are based on aesthetics - how much the other person appeals to you. In that sense, does it really make sense to judge a person the same way you would judge a movie or a painting? Isn't a person's value much greater than that? However, no relationship could ever be based purely on function or merit. I think it would be ideal if relationships were actually based on merit, but that simply isn't the way it is.

I don't know. Perhaps I'm just rationalizing...

[olduser]

I'm probably below average. The fact is, I just don't put too much emphasis on my appearance. If I actually took care of myself beyond basic hygiene, then I don't know how I'd look. To me, looking good simply isn't important; the life of the mind has far more value to me than the aspects of the physical world. Looking good would probably be helpful for getting a girlfriend (as would be the social skills that I'm missing), but I have mixed feelings about the whole notion of relationships. On the one hand, I think it would be nice to be in a relationship. On the other hand, it seems to me that relationships are based on aesthetics - how much the other person appeals to you. In that sense, does it really make sense to judge a person the same way you would judge a movie or a painting? Isn't a person's value much greater than that? However, no relationship could ever be based purely on function or merit. I think it would be ideal if relationships were actually based on merit, but that simply isn't the way it is.

I don't know. Perhaps I'm just rationalizing...

you are misinformed by lack of experience. you seem to fear the initialization of relationship which can largely be based on aestetics, but a lot of relationships are beyond this. What does it matter if relationships are based on what appeals to you? Isn't that what you want? Don't you learn things that appeal to you?. And your disdain of aesteics is also a misunderstanding. there is nothing wrong with looking nice, style, or any of this-- You can be brilliant and be well-dressed, well-groomed, etc. to think these two are antithetical is wrong. The life of the mind should include pleasure and beauty.

[jason_m]

you are misinformed by lack of experience. you seem to fear the initialization of relationship which can largely be based on aestetics, but a lot of relationships are beyond this.

No relationship could be formed without considering the other person's looks or whether the style of their behaviour appeals to you. Do you think that that is fair? Is it fair that people who are innately unattractive have little chance of enjoying a relationship?

What does it matter if relationships are based on what appeals to you? Isn't that what you want? Don't you learn things that appeal to you?.

I'm going to have to agree with that. I might be mistaken on this point.

And your disdain of aesteics is also a misunderstanding. there is nothing wrong with looking nice, style, or any of this-- You can be brilliant and be well-dressed, well-groomed, etc. to think these two are antithetical is wrong. The life of the mind should include pleasure and beauty.

Those are just my values. It's up to me to decide what I value.

[olduser]

No relationship could be formed without considering the other person's looks or whether the style of their behaviour appeals to you. Do you think that that is fair? Is it fair that people who are innately unattractive have little chance of enjoying a relationship?

I don't think it's unfair at all. It's impossible to immediately know someone's personality, but not impossible to immediately know their looks and what you think about them. Also, there is a wide range of attractiveness and someting for nearly everyone. the fact that unnattractive people exist is evidence that people can find something attractive outside of looks, or have attractions to different looks. i think your bitterness is premature- trust me there are many other things to dislike about the opposite sex besides the initialization. tons, mountains, loads!

[redbaron]

Is it fair that people who are innately unattractive have little chance of enjoying a relationship?

this isn't true at all. it's been proven that people with similar levels of attractiveness are attracted to each other. so while someone who's not that physically attractive probably won't end up with a supermodel, it hardly follows that the person has little chance of enjoying a relationship.

[jason_m]

I don't think it's unfair at all. It's impossible to immediately know someone's personality, but not impossible to immediately know their looks and what you think about them. Also, there is a wide range of attractiveness and someting for nearly everyone. the fact that unnattractive people exist is evidence that people can find something attractive outside of looks, or have attractions to different looks. i think your bitterness is premature- trust me there are many other things to dislike about the opposite sex besides the initialization. tons, mountains, loads!

Fair enough.

Jason

[jason_m]

this isn't true at all. it's been proven that people with similar levels of attractiveness are attracted to each other. so while someone who's not that physically attractive probably won't end up with a supermodel, it hardly follows that the person has little chance of enjoying a relationship.

I haven't heard of that, but it's contrary to my notion of attractiveness. For example, it seems hard for me to see how Angelina Jolie can be considered one of the most attractive women, yet people who are average/below-average are not attracted to her. Doesn't being a very attractive woman mean that most are attracted you? Of course, what you might be saying is that unattractive people are more likely to be attracted to other unattractive people and are still attracted to attractive people. However, even in that case, physical attractiveness can serve as a barrier for finding an ideal personality matchup, because people have fewer options.

(BTW, I don't want to leave the impression that I have something against attractive people. So long as the other person treats me with respect, I don't judge them. What I am trying to say is that how relationships are formed is not fair/ideal.)

Jason

[Satan]

i've never considered myself to be attractive.

at the same time, i find the more girls pay me attention, the more likely other girls are to pay me attention. and then i can start feeling more attractive because i attract attention.

[Mediator Kam]

I consider myself average. Some days I think I look great, and some days are like "wow wtf I was looking real fly yesterday". But does it really matter? I'm more into what I can provide in the ways of support and general likibility rather than any sort of "eye candy" or w/e.

[redbaron]

what you might be saying is that unattractive people are more likely to be attracted to other unattractive people and are still attracted to attractive people. However, even in that case, physical attractiveness can serve as a barrier for finding an ideal personality matchup, because people have fewer options.

yes, that was what I was saying. people seem to know intuitively how attractive they are and tend to be drawn toward people with that same level of attractiveness. I disagree that unattractive people have fewer options. Because those who are really attractive probably won't go for those who are really unattractive, so what I'm saying is that roughly everyone has the same options, in terms of attractiveness. Of course there are notable exceptions such as Paulina Porizkova and Rick Ocasek, but in his case he had fame and talent going for him. (that pairing always mystified me.)

[redbaron]

I generally agree with this as far as initial attraction goes, but I believe there are lots of exceptions (things such as intelligence, wealth, interests, social hierarchy). I've known plenty of odd couplings in terms of attractiveness (5's with 9's, ect). I certainly believe it's possible to fall for someone below your ideal.

yeah I s'pose that's true. age, maturity, proximity, etc. there are many factors.

[strrrng]

people seem to know intuitively how attractive they are and tend to be drawn toward people with that same level of attractiveness.

Bingo

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I find people attractive in real life based on more subtle things. Obviously, I'm more drawn to the porn star bod but in reality I'm quicker to be more sensitive to 'oh typical frat boy prick.' That is, if you are physically attractive, but I don't want to go to the hassle of actually trying to sleep with you, I'd most likely simply masturbate over you instead. It's easier that way, plus I'm lazy.

[redbaron]

I find people attractive in real life based on more subtle things. Obviously, I'm more drawn to the porn star bod but in reality I'm quicker to be more sensitive to 'oh typical frat boy prick.' That is, if you are physically attractive, but I don't want to go to the hassle of actually trying to sleep with you, I'd most likely simply masturbate over you instead. It's easier that way, plus I'm lazy.

that is the laziest thing I've heard in a long time. lol

[Khola aka Bee]

It's been proven that people with similar levels of attractiveness are attracted to each other.

I've often wondered about this....do you have a link?

[Khola aka Bee]

I find people attractive in real life based on more subtle things. Obviously, I'm more drawn to the porn star bod but in reality I'm quicker to be more sensitive to 'oh typical frat boy prick.' That is, if you are physically attractive, but I don't want to go to the hassle of actually trying to sleep with you, I'd most likely simply masturbate over you instead. It's easier that way, plus I'm lazy.

Lol!

[jessica129]

All my bfs have been pretty hot if i do say so myself. Win for me.

[xyz]

All my bfs have been pretty hot if i do say so myself. Win for me.

Well I do try to keep a little modesty but hehe why thank you.

[Lotus]

All my bfs have been pretty hot if i do say so myself. Win for me.

my bf

[redbaron]

I've often wondered about this....do you have a link?

http://faculty.babson.edu/krollag/or...d_attract.html

[iAnnAu]

http://faculty.babson.edu/krollag/or...d_attract.html

Hmm. This study doesn't cite the conditions under which it came to its conclusions, or any supporting references. While its premises are interesting, I would hesitate to draw any conclusions from it.

For myself, I've dated all types. Aesthetically pleasing, unaesthetic, athletic, overweight, tall, short, even significantly (24 years) older and (7 years) younger (and etc. etc, but I mentioned these because they're physical). The only time physical traits affected the relationship was when the other person allowed it to affect his/her self-esteem.

Like when I dated a guy who was shorter than me, and he constantly brought it up. It didn't matter to me - hell, if anything, it was easier to kiss him because he was 5'6" and I'm 5'7". But it obviously mattered to him, and I'm no good at propping up fragile egos over stuff like this.

Or times when I've dated guys who would not be considered handsome by cultural standards - I've been told "I don't deserve you," in the context of comparing our aesthetic appeals, and it pisses me off. I'm the one who decided to date you, dummy: what are you trying to do, insult my taste?

When I was with the 55 YO (I was 31), I got the feeling that he liked to "show me off" - that was creepy. He actually tried to get me to promise I would only buy new clothes for going out to parties with him - as if the people we're going to socialize with would know that I bought them secondhand! It didn't bother me that he was older - I could be attracted to him despite that. But jeez, so much for assuming he'd be more mature mentally and emotionally!

[suedehead]

solidly below-average. If you're a guy and not sure whether or not you're good looking, you aren't - women are very direct when they find someone sexually attractive.

[mclane]

Honestly, I've no idea. I am able to gauge other people's physical atractiveness (although I am very subjetive about this, someone might be considered objetively attractive and I might find them not to be and viceversa). Even when I'm told, or I've been liked by girls in the past, I just don't believe it. I lack "something".

[ashlesha]

My self evaluation depends on how I feel and who I'm comparing myself to but it never strays very far from average.

[Chae]

Not more, not less. U know what I realized... the process of comparison irks me in the first place Yeah I'm being anti , pitting people against one another in scales is dangerous. Cause it throws some under the bus while giving privilege to others by creating a false value concept - that's injustice, especially since you can profit from people wanting to change their already determined status quo. Often with harmful measures, even worse. Sure that is an integral societal component that can hardly be changed - or maybe it can... what a world would that be - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address it right there to make ourselves aware. What I'm saying is: if you distance yourself... the contemporary construct of "attractiveness" is some major marketing-savvy bs. Something's not right about that. I personally won't think of myself in terms of more attractive, less attractive. Equally attractive is the word. Let's go one step further - who said one has to compulsively 'attract' in the first place Evolution reproduction hormones sexuality yada yada all that talk and no sense for letting humans just be. I don't want your categories. Those create the root of the problem. Food for thought, I'm out of here.

[Pole]

I have always thought I was hideous. Unless I am thin, wearing make-up and ready to work the pole I do not consider myself attractive.
EDIT: before anyone says it's a self esteem thing, I have more confidence than most and it comes from other good traits that I have. I am more secure than most.

[The Exception]

Probably average or slightly below. I have the potential to be more attractive, I'm just lazy and don't like to spend alot of time in this area, when I have more interesting things to think about. I do spend enough time though, to have good hygiene, to look at least presentable.

[jessica129]

Do you ever just see a picture of yourself and feel genuine concern that that is what you actually look like to others?

[Adam Strange]

I think I look OK, but not great.

I once compared myself to an online attractiveness scale and got five or six or something. My ex says I'm normally a 4/10 but when I smile, I go to 6/10. Most people evidently think they are sevens, like the kids in Lake Wobegon. Fortunately, women are not primarily oriented toward looks. ....I think. ....I hope....

[Adam Strange]

Do you ever just see a picture of yourself and feel genuine concern that that is what you actually look like to others?

Every day. That's what you get when you have to shave.

[ashlesha]

@willowglass I really like the poetry comparison!

[idontgiveaf]

Average

[Olimpia]

Naturally and at my best, I'm above average. But not to the extent I would feel proud about it. As a woman, especially a Type 4 one, you always compare yourself to the best. In comparison, I'm doing well to most, but I am nowhere near people like Amber Heard or Scarlett Johansson. I am mostly fine with that, though I remember when I was mentally unhealthier I'd mentally beat myself up over not being closer to what I'd deem "my perfect/ideal self". Which is a common Type 4 problem, I believe. I also had that thought once that if I wasn't above average, I might have killed myself during very depressed moments. Being a Social Type 4, the shame about yourself can be unbearable at unhealthy Levels, even if you aren't ugly, you'll feel like you are. It seems like most Social 4s are average or above average, actually. Being a Social 4 and ugly is like a recipe for disaster.

At my worst, when I let myself go, I look around average, give or take.

Self-maintenance can play quite a role.
Almost everyone looks sh*tty if they let themselves go.

P.S: I didn't vote in the poll because I consider myself only a "tad higher", but at the same time I am above average, so dunno.

[Olimpia]

Men care way more about looks than women, I think that's safe to say.
At least when it comes to selecting a long-term partner.

[maniac]

I think they care equally in a general perspective

And then there are individual differences

For me, I take the whole person into account, not one specific thing makes me like them.
A guy who takes care of himself is an attractive personality trait because he has self control, not just because it makes him attractive physically.
If I had a partner who suddenly "let themselves go" I would wonder what is up with them because when that happens there is usually something thats not right.

[Olimpia]

Everyone likes their partner to be physically attractive (enough).

However, women are more likely going to be with a guy who is not as physically attractive as she'd like if he's got other traits that make up for it.
Whereas men who aren't attracted to a woman's looks won't date her; nothing can make them change their mind about her attractiveness. For men, there is a big difference between physical and mental attractiveness. If a woman lacks too much in the physical department in his eyes, she can be as smart and funny as she wants, it won't make her more attractive to him (on a sexual level). For women, a guy who is not as attractive in her eyes can get her if his personality is cool enough and he meets most or all of her vital requirements; their perception of a guy's attractiveness is much more holistic.

For a man, a woman's looks gets her foot in the door. Everything else makes him either open the door or close it.
For a woman, a man's confidence or perceived value (this can be very subjective, based on what the woman finds important) gets his foot in the door. Everything else makes her either open the door or close it.

Of course there are women and men who care more or less about a guy's looks, but I am not talking about the exceptions here.
Most of those women who care more about a guy's level of attractiveness are: either more attractive themselves (that surely does not apply to all attractive women though), or older women looking for a younger "boy toy".
Most of those men who care less about a woman's level of attractiveness are: young and financially non-established and/or lower in status than her.

[maniac]

Everyone likes their partner to be physically attractive (enough).

However, women are more likely going to be with a guy who is not as physically attractive as she'd like if he's got other traits that make up for it.
Whereas men who aren't attracted to a woman's looks won't date her; nothing can make them change their mind about her attractiveness. For men, there is a big difference between physical and mental attractiveness. If a woman lacks too much in the physical department in his eyes, she can be as smart and funny as she wants, it won't make her more attractive to him (on a sexual level). For women, a guy who is not as attractive in her eyes can get her if his personality is cool enough and he meets most or all of her vital requirements; their perception of a guy's attractiveness is much more holistic.

For a man, a woman's looks gets her foot in the door. Everything else makes him either open the door or close it.
For a woman, a man's confidence or perceived value (this can be very subjective, based on what the woman finds important) gets his foot in the door. Everything else makes her either open the door or close it.

Of course there are women who care more or less about a guy's looks, but I am not talking about the exceptions here.
Most of those women who care more about a guy's level of attractiveness are: either more attractive themselves (that surely does not apply to all attractive women though), or older women looking for a younger "boy toy".

A guy can have high confidence and status (i dont care about status, if someone has high status its more likely ill be offput by it. I like guys who are less conformist and dont care about being an outsider) but be super obese, and because of that I cant respect that quality and naturally its not attractive, it looks unhealthy. What makes me look at a guy in a attractive light in the first place is looks and their style (because it gives me clues to what kind of person they are), then if I dont like their personality when talking to them my attraction obviously goes away.

[Olimpia]

A guy can have high confidence and status (i dont care about status, if someone has high status its more likely ill be offput by it. I like guys who are less conformist and dont care about being an outsider) but be super obese, and because of that I cant respect that quality and naturally its not attractive, it looks unhealthy. What makes me look at a guy in a attractive light in the first place is looks and their style (because it gives me clues to what kind of person they are), then if I dont like their personality when talking to them my attraction obviously goes away.

You are also young, above average in attractiveness, SO blindspot, and not looking to get married any time soon.

All those factors influence your preferences in that respect.

[suedehead]

Everyone likes their partner to be physically attractive (enough).

However, women are more likely going to be with a guy who is not as physically attractive as she'd like if he's got other traits that make up for it.
Whereas men who aren't attracted to a woman's looks won't date her; nothing can make them change their mind about her attractiveness. For men, there is a big difference between physical and mental attractiveness. If a woman lacks too much in the physical department in his eyes, she can be as smart and funny as she wants, it won't make her more attractive to him (on a sexual level). For women, a guy who is not as attractive in her eyes can get her if his personality is cool enough and he meets most or all of her vital requirements; their perception of a guy's attractiveness is much more holistic.

For a man, a woman's looks gets her foot in the door. Everything else makes him either open the door or close it.
For a woman, a man's confidence or perceived value (this can be very subjective, based on what the woman finds important) gets his foot in the door. Everything else makes her either open the door or close it.

Of course there are women and men who care more or less about a guy's looks, but I am not talking about the exceptions here.
Most of those women who care more about a guy's level of attractiveness are: either more attractive themselves (that surely does not apply to all attractive women though), or older women looking for a younger "boy toy".
Most of those men who care less about a woman's level of attractiveness are: young and financially non-established and/or lower in status than her.

Most guys that "win girls over" with their personality (usually guys that they deem "acceptable" in terms of looks but certainly wouldn't bone within 10 seconds of meeting them) are getting cucked by chad on a regular-basis and are pretty much at the woman's beck and call. She's likely to consider sex with his potatofaced, skinny-fat self a grueling chore and internally cringe at his delusional displays of masculine pride.

[Olimpia]

Most guys that "win girls over" with their personality (usually guys that they deem "acceptable" in terms of looks but certainly wouldn't bone within 10 seconds of meeting them) are getting cucked by chad on a regular-basis and are pretty much at the woman's beck and call. She's likely to consider sex with his potatofaced, skinny-fat self a grueling chore and internally cringe at his delusional displays of masculine pride.