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Last edited by Rubicon; 11-27-2008 at 08:52 PM. Reason: hmm ...
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
the daughter sounds like you.
this is a very similar conversation that my sister and i have had, many times. we are more respectful with each other in it though. we're both a bit more open to each other's viewpoint even when we dont agree. but, the essence of this conversation is so close to what we've said to each other.
i believe you've said your mom was istj in the past.
my sis is probably delta, enfp or infj, with isfp next and i'm pretty darn sure i'm beta at this point. and you've likened me to your mom before as well.
that's as specific as i can get.
daughter=my sister
mother=me
some of the "rude" comments like "You just have to speak with authority, and they believe pretty much everything you tell them." and "You're incredibly naive. If you want to live your life just being blown to and fro by the wind - living in some happy fairy-land - you're on the right track. You're going to die an old lady having achieved nothing." and "Well, you need to change the way you learn. Let other stupid people make the mistakes, so you don't have to."
are all things i THINK but would NOT say to my sister that harshly. i know and love and respect her too much as an individual who does not like that kind of harshness thrown at her to speak that way to her.
with all that being said, the mother's type is definitely mine. sis and i have shared some of these exact sentiments back and forth. we actually cherish these conversations because we love each other deeply enough to respect the other's way of seeing things whether we agree or not.
i learned to let go of my expectations of others that way long ago and to realize that just because I HAVE a purpose to fulfill that is along the lines of what the mother is saying, not everyone else has the same purpose and i better respect that in order for others to respect MINE.
so, if some EIEs do not realize that and accomodate accordingly in their purpose of what they're doing and being, i can see why so many others would see them as manipulative bitches. helllllooo!! my own mom is either EIE or SLE, most likely EIE now and i observed her be that way. i learned how to be a healthier version.and you bet she respects and admires me now.
well, jem, i hope that helps you. i have personally always thought you were IEE.you and my sis are a lot alike.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Yeah ... I think that's probably significant ... because she often says things that I can see are true on some level, but just seem really unnecessary and harsh ... and make me want to point out another perspective regardless of whether I agree or not.
Yeah - same.
pfft - what do you know about VI? :-p
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
I was thinking Ej for the mom and Ip for the daughter.
IEI-Fe 4w3
It sounds like me and my dad talking. When my dad is in a bad mood. He can be awful, but then he can be a real sweetie too. Anyway, I'm IEE and he's EIE, though that doesn't mean the people in the convo are those two types. I'd say it's a disagreement about the value of Se though so one dislikes Se and one greatly values it.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
something i was thinking of...
everyone is saying EIE for the mom or at least EJ and sounds like Se valuing. would the fact that i find some of her ways of saying things to be very rude and condescending, especially for the relationship with her daughter be any indicator that i do not value Fe in the way the mom does? i do value Se, but if i care more about my relationship with my sister than being rude to her, would or could i be Fi and Se valuing?
i was just at the grocery store and saw two women who i could tell would have been the mom in this conversation, definite EIEs. that is not me. i am much more of a tomboy, jock type. we were out playing football at the park earlier and i usually am wearing my sports/workout wear.
my own mom sounds more like the mom here in this conversation.
I think in that kind of conversation (if I were in the daughter's place) my end would be full of. It would not go well.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Daughter is a 9, mother is a cp6
JRiddy
—————King of Socionics—————
Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
The mom just sounds neurotic. I think someone from any quadra could adopt that sort of "survival of the fittest" mentality. Perhaps the focus is on Se, but that doesn't mean Se is valued. The focus on accomplishment could be related to Se or rationality, but it doesn't have to be.
This is just someone who feels she's been bullied and fears that if she is not tough like she's described, she'll be taken advantage of. She doesn't think of people very highly, herself being no exception. That's why she's decided to measure worth by accomplishment. Her daughter frustrates her because she upsets her world view.
It's amazing that her daughter is so kind and wise, having been raised by such an unhealthy person.