How to recognize an INFj: characteristics, style, traits, and real life observations of EIIs

[astralsilky]

If you want to know about INFjs I would suggest spending less time coming up with theoretical definitions and more time getting out to meet real INFj's.

Yes, that is ideal.

Unfortunately, the ability to be sociable so as to quickly build relationships doesn't come quite so easily for some of us ...

Plus, a lot of INFjs tend not to put themselves "out there" and if you did find one, s/he may quickly withdraw before the relationship even starts ...

so I'm just saying, it may not be so easy.

[astralsilky]

...

[Not A Communist Shill]

^ I think that description sounds very good - they do seem to be serious, but it's worth pointing out that if you say something that they might seem as hostile, their face might become less rigid as though they are about to cry, and then they might try to straighten their face again, before giving a reply - this might seem in a higher pitch than usual, as though they are trying to stop themselves sobbing. Their voice might become very distinct and sound like it's from far away, and they might try to avoid your direct gaze - they might even retreat completely to another room with barely a sound made, or make themselves busy with something else nearby.

One things that might upset them IME is someone calling someone in the INFjs presence (if not directly) 'a fucking retard' in a hostile manner, almost like a dog-like bark (i.e. like you might expect a ESTp to do all the time). People who put down others in such a way or are just generally unkind and unforgiving in their comments are not liked by INFjs.

If INFjs have to say something about a person to their face, they keep glancing briefly at the person's face, almost as though they are blinking - they might do twinkling star shapes with their hands as they gently put each point. They might say to themselves 'now how do I put this?' while looking in some corner of the room at the same time. They tend to break things to you gradually or indirectly (they deflate the impact). They might sit at an odd angle with the hand of one arm in the crock of the other arm, which may bring one shoulder lower than the other - they seem very angular. They might lean in one direction or another.

[astralsilky]

^ I think that description sounds very good - they do seem to be serious, but it's worth pointing out that if you say something that they might seem as hostile, their face might become less rigid as though they are about to cry, and then they might try to straighten their face again, before giving a reply - this might seem in a higher pitch than usual, as though they are trying to stop themselves sobbing. Their voice might become very distinct and sound like it's from far away, and they might try to avoid your direct gaze - they might even retreat completely to another room with barely a sound made, or make themselves busy with something else nearby.

One things that might upset them IME is someone calling someone in the INFjs presence (if not directly) 'a fucking retard' in a hostile manner, almost like a dog-like bark (i.e. like you might expect a ESTp to do all the time). People who put down others in such a way or are just generally unkind and unforgiving in their comments are not liked by INFjs.

If INFjs have to say something about a person to their face, they keep glancing briefly at the person's face, almost as though they are blinking - they might do twinkling star shapes with their hands as they gently put each point. They might say to themselves 'now how do I put this?' while looking in some corner of the room at the same time. They tend to break things to you gradually or indirectly (they deflate the impact). They might sit at an odd angle with the hand of one arm in the crock of the other arm, which may bring one shoulder lower than the other - they seem very angular. They might lean in one direction or another.

Good contributions! I agree with everything except the mannerisms I can't directly observe myself doing from outside myself. :wink: I don't pay attention to most of my mannerisms, actually, and so trust your general INFj observations here.

twinkling star shapes - ?!?





hee hee

[krieger]

If you want to know about INFjs I would suggest spending less time coming up with theoretical definitions and more time getting out to meet real INFj's.

The problem is not that I don't know any Fi types; just that with what information I have I don't know where to lay the divide between INFj and ISFj, as just about all of them behave dissimilar to the point where 'boxing' them wouldn't do justice to the differences that exist between them.

In fact, all of my attempts trying to apply socionics to real life people meet with this kind of dillemma at some point. Hence the perceived need for more powerful theoretical models, like the Reinin model, or dual-type theory, from my perspective.

Ordinary subtype-theory doesn't offer a solution to the problem, as it reasons away the problem instead of trying to solve it with explanations.

[Not A Communist Shill]

twinkling star shapes - ?!?





hee hee

You know how people flick the tips of their fingers with their other fingers? That's what I mean.

[Minde]

what kind of people are they?

A friend (of the Ne Ep variety) said to me recently that I have that admirable gentle and quiet spirit, but at the same time have opinions of my own and can have fun. My ESFj says that I'm delicate and that she's afraid she'll break me someday. She also says I'm feminine, more so than her. People who don't know me that well often call me quiet and sweet. My sister says I need to get out more.

I'm going to throw some theoretical definitions against this 'problem' for my own convenience; don't let it distract you. Please contribute in any way you would like.

Positive narrators: upbeat, tells stories with a personal interpretation.
Aristocratic: has predetermined value judgment on issues. personal beliefs.
Process type: focussed in action, has goals that it feels it will never reach and thus continually keeps active.
Construct creating, compliant: ready to help anyone who asks for it. "cannot refuse if asked to do something" (I. Weisband)
Stategical, calculating: responsible about matters of long term importance. Thinks ahead.

Not sure if I interpreted those correctly.

That doesn't sound too far off. Good job.

My grandmother may be one of these. Is it common for INFj's to behave like 'caregivers' in the sense that they cater to the needs of visitors with great enthusiasm, doing more than what's asked of them?

Sometimes enthusiastically. I think enthusiasm may be more of an extrovert thing, like Fe. For me, I'm more likely to quietly take care of someone, even secretly. Being kind to people like that isn't as much as a habit for me as I'd like, but I can get great enjoyment out of it. I really, really like encouraging people. It makes me happy when I see people succeed, do well, etc., and caring for someone can help with that. Yet, sometimes I don't notice (or want to notice) when people need help.

how to spot an infj

case study[...]

If anyone disagrees that any of this sounds INFj to them, please say so.

Most of that sounds extremely accurate, at least as it applies to me. Like the whole hospitality thing. It doesn't come continuously and naturally, rather it’s something I do when I take a fancy to it. And the whole having "ownership" of the surroundings (including people) and feeling more open as a result… yes.

One thing I will say that isn't quite me is the clothing part. Now, I in no way claim to have any good sense when it comes to fashion. You can't rely on me to notice important things. Sometimes I will, but don't count on it. I mean, I usually know if I think something is pretty or looks nice, but I couldn't really tell you if anybody else might like it. And, yet, for all of my lack of skill, I get a surprising amount of positive comments on how I've dressed myself - usually when I least expect it. "What? Me? You like my… shirt? *puzzled look* This one? *points to self* Oh. Thanks… *confused smile*"

[astralsilky]

If you want to know about INFjs I would suggest spending less time coming up with theoretical definitions and more time getting out to meet real INFj's.

The problem is not that I don't know any Fi types; just that with what information I have I don't know where to lay the divide between INFj and ISFj, as just about all of them behave dissimilar to the point where 'boxing' them wouldn't do justice to the differences that exist between them.

In fact, all of my attempts trying to apply socionics to real life people meet with this kind of dillemma at some point. Hence the perceived need for more powerful theoretical models, like the Reinin model, or dual-type theory, from my perspective.

Ordinary subtype-theory doesn't offer a solution to the problem, as it reasons away the problem instead of trying to solve it with explanations.

I think that even though socionics refers a lot to "the dominant function" of a type, at minimum it seems reasonable that even more emphasis could be made on the "dominant dynamic" between base and creative functions, where it is the working between the two in unison that makes the information contained and exchanged between them intelligible (validated/received) and actually meaningful. EDIT -- Maybe we aren't giving the creative function enough credit regarding how it colours other functions ...

Btw, IRL, I "feel" like I have less in common with ISFjs than more. (E.g., by way of contrast, in practice I feel like I have more in common with ENTps!! ... b/c of intuition ... ) Could be because I like ENTp stimulation, too ... swaying my decision. Come to think of it, I also "feel" like I have more in common with some INTps, too, than ISFjs ... go figure.

ISFj vs. INFj, IME

[Danielle]

labcoat, I like what you put together.

astralsilky, I identified strongly with nearly everything you said and also with your post on ISFj vs. INFj. The only thing I didn't identify with was "Appearance usually pale, even ghostly, even at a young age." But that's probably because I'm black. When I imagine myself with lighter skin, I'm never the ruddy type. I'm lacking in vitality.

[necrosebud]

People often tell me that I am shy and quiet (like I am surprised by how often I hear it)... if that's of any relevance lol, just... first impressions sort of thing
they also often comment on my dresses for some reason

[loopyclouds]

People often tell me that I am shy and quiet (like I am surprised by how often I hear it)

Are you surprised because you don't think it accurately reflects you? or just because it's mentioned so often?

People always use those words to describe me as well. I don't really think I'm very shy but it's fair enough that they would think that of me since I only start to open up around people who I'm very comfortable with/close to

[necrosebud]

Are you surprised because you don't think it accurately reflects you? or just because it's mentioned so often?

People always use those words to describe me as well. I don't really think I'm very shy but it's fair enough that they would think that of me since I only start to open up around people I'm very comfortable with/close to

because it is mentioned so often

yeah, I feel like... perhaps they see a difference in what they might expect vs. how I actually behave... but it catches me by surprise there is almost a judgment/observation that I am not... behaving in a typical or expected or 'normal' (but that's not quite the right word), way

when I internally feel like this is pretty normal lol

[nifl]

People often tell me that I am shy and quiet (like I am surprised by how often I hear it)... if that's of any relevance lol, just... first impressions sort of thing

trait principally shared by all introverts

[Sol]

The more a human fits to common behavior of some type expected by theory (dichotomies, functional values) and lesser to that of other types - the higher chance to have that type.

For example s&m attractions (death/decadence interests, self-destructiveness/self-harm? [her previous nick]) are more for Se valued types. Bad talking structure is more about P types. Both exists at @necrosebud and are among arguments against her to have EII and more to have IEI.

[necrosebud]

trait principally shared by all introverts

Sure but I have seen my parents, for example (who are both introverts), interact with people - acquaintances strangers and so on and I have never seen them get that comment or if they did it wasn’t even close to how often I get told that lol

it’s like they are expecting something else from me

i have probably had introvert friends as well, and same thing

idk it kinda stood out to me but I also can't account for others' experiences completely ofc

[Karbonkel]

EII are all sneaky, impractical cuties with a wisdom well beyond their years

[Beautiful sky]

This all depends on how warm, kind warm and loving the EII is
I’ve had a near death experience so having had that experience with God I understood the infinite and loving nature of God and how we are supposed to live this life even if I am not perfect in my ways

So having said that some EII are cold reserved and short with people
Some EII are suspicious of stuff that’s brought to them and presented to them
Some EII are helpful and ready to jump in and help you with whatever they can
Some are a bit warmer on the outside
Some are controlling and seem cold and demanding and seem materialistic and superficial (I remember one who had the hardest time picking the right plates for her wedding and demanding her husband for the right ring etc). This is called surmounting others idk why

Do things in the service of God. Learn to love others unconditionally

[Beautiful sky]

If an INFJ gets upset an SLE and hurdles character judgements at them that don’t necessarily embalm all of that person surly the SLE will get upset

Things like “you’re a horrible person” for having done X

But a better form of communication that doesn’t stab at Fi would be

“I think you taking these actions undermine your relationships with others. In my opinion this would work better.”
This is less of a personal offense that has been taken and less offensive on the EII’s part

[Lord Pixel]

If an INFJ gets upset an SLE and hurdles character judgements at them that don’t necessarily embalm all of that person surly the SLE will get upset

Things like “you’re a horrible person” for having done X

But a better form of communication that doesn’t stab at Fi would be

“I think you taking these actions undermine your relationships with others. In my opinion this would work better.”
This is less of a personal offense that has been taken and less offensive on the EII’s part

This is really difficult in practice.

[Apartamento]

They're usually reserved on first meeting but not cold, like a controlled kindness. Earnest and literal in their communications.

Appearance wise I've noticed other EIIs/myself included to be adverse to crazy patterns, bright colours, over accessorising, or anything very attention grabbing, usually muted dress sense or minimalist, comfortable (sometimes can be quite corporate if they're overcompensating for Te), can also be subtly quirky.

[Rusal]

Superficially: Compact rather than languid-looking, maybe a greater tendency to a more or less rounded face, with their eyes being an important feature but immobile rather than dancing and even anime like depending on the angle and if they wear glasses.

Nice but they only consider that you're really nice to them if you allow them to drag you to constant correspondence of feelings. Which is not so bad in itself but for them it means withstanding their rumination and ever-present delicacy when dealing with them. For that reason they tend develop feelings of abandonment if a 'less psychologically compatible partner' like we like to say here preserves some time for themselves to go out and do their own thing. Codependency. They are offended easily and take things to heart.
Good with money, and I think this is true for both Delta NFs. EIIs can save money even if the pay at their current job is not great. They show no inclination to shop mindlessly for example when shopping for clothes and this can sort of shape their style for some of them: a truly good piece of clothing is the one you find at the bottom of the sales rack. They need encouragement from others to treat themselves to something nice once in a while like a good, expensive perfume. They manage their household well. Sometimes they make 'silly' questions or comments that make other people's eye roll. I guess EIIs perceive other people's logic or understanding faulty as well for their own reasons.

Sometimes some of them are unexpectedly feisty with outsiders instead of having a 'logical' conversation first to solve matters.
Their interest in the other people around them is Delta, basically: monitoring their feelings and well-being but in a domestic understanding of a person's discomfort in term of sadness of happiness, emotions, daily life. Even when it's true that they focus on the inner life of a person, they apply to themselves the same operation so from the outside it seems that although they recognize and prioritize their feelings, dislikes, impressions others leave on them, offenses, etc they do it from a resonance chamber where one feeling is born and cascades into another, but the constant attention to them does not make them dive for the pearl of self-understanding. It's not unheard of for an EII to get to the point of somatizing past traumas when they're older and need therapy to really discover the past relation or experience that's that's locked them in their current situation. Their Fi lead echo chamber and a late felf-discovery makes them give the impression of being obsessed with their negative emotions and whatever happened to them. They always return (vocally and in the presence of others) to this core of themselves. When this happens it's not uncommon for less understanding people to think they're somehow close to a narcissist. Someone more benevolent might just tell them all this going back to the same spot is not going to take them anywhere.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Fi lead echo chamber

Is there an echo chamber for each function?

[Sol]

Good with money, and I think this is true for both Delta NFs.

From the side of rational usage of resources can be related to traits:
J - as planing helps
T - to think is useful, to understand what you need and what is better
So ENFP are among risky ones.

[Rusal]

Is there an echo chamber for each function?

I meant it more in the sense that contrary to Gamma, where Fi for the SFs is a launch pad to affect reality, Delta Fi wallows in itself with no visible resolution at sight other than endless reproduction.

[14Raptor19]

Is JRR Tolkien EII? Looking past obvious meanings, and going for something fluid, or foamy, or bright... is that like EII?