...
How to recognize an INFj: characteristics, style, traits, and real life observations of EIIs
...
Last edited by fever; 03-19-2009 at 08:25 PM.
chilling out (and getting chilly) in the penalty box.
Re: Observations of INFJs...
I know 2 very well.Originally Posted by fever
Usually have a pleasant and welcoming expression, very seldom harsh; not overly concerned about dressing well or fashionably (but not slobs); very concerned about their health and unwilling to take physical risks. Sometimes a "not quite here", dreamy expression.
Very open to new ideas and experiences (apart from physical risk-taking); very informed in a broad range of subjects; very easy to talk to about anything; genuinely kind and helpful. Competent at work. Master technical subjects well, better at theory than with practice.
Weakness: tend to second-guess my supposed "hidden" emotional motivations; a bit needy; usually easygoing but may "explode" suddenly.
Pretty much as above. They're both very good friends and I enjoy their company.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Well, first, "unwilling to take physical risks" is not the same as "non-sporty".
What I mean is that one of my INFj friends is extremely cautious about putting his own physical integrity at risk in a non-controlled way. Like, if everyone else in a group is willing to so something slightly reckless, like walking to close to a cliff's edge, he's always the one not to do it.
Actually I spent last weekend at his house and discussed socionics with him, including Hugo's test. He agreed that INFj fits him perfectly.
As for explanation, that is the INFj's hidden agenda, "to be healthy". They concentrate onbecause of their
PoLR. Which can also mean that INFjs will be sporty to keep healthy.
"Being healthy" rings an unhealthy thread in me. Though I really hate (Really hate!) doing anything that I percieve as "dangerous" (What, exactly, would be the point in that? I'd just be imagining broken bones and trails of blood all the time. Where's the fun in that?) I don't really do much exercise. However, whenever I think of health/unhealth or anything related to that, I immediately get a lump of ice in my belly, start shaking and gets a case of bad conscience to rival the one I'd've had had I killed my little sister. One of those times I actually swore to my grandmother that I'd one time win the marathon
Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.
INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
Dishonorary INFp
Baah
(Very good place for emoticons. Right-click on the one you want and select "properties" for direct link)
I fear that what your saying may actually be right....It may be that what you see on here is not me. I've basically given up hope in this forum, and use it to 'vent steam'. 90% of what I write on here is a joke on some level.
Maybe, if you search up some earlier post, there may be more of a connection.
Then again, I may be mistyped, you may be mistyped, we could be different subtypes, we could just have developed differently, any, all or some of us could be mentally ill... Many possibilities. Heck, I could even have been correctly typed at some time, and then warped my type. Who knows?
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
(I said shortly, but did not realize how busy I was going to be today)
fever,
the topic of your post this is something that I've always been interested in knowing, but I am hesitant to ask this of people because I want to be sure of getting accurate answers.
Anyway, I don't know if I have met another infj in my life, so I couldn't help you/us in this department. What Expat wrote about the hidden agenda is definitely true in my case. In fact, I am now curious as to how Expat can come up with so much accurate information. (Do you feel you are referring to a reference book inside your head or to a certaing feeling you have?)
Not so long ago I was having a depressing episode about what would I do if I went blind. The thought still scares me because I see my senses as the only connection I have to the outside world. Of course, taken to the literal meaning, senses are what connect us to the physical world. It's the realization of it that scares me. I know that my life depends on being healthy, but I am more concentrated on other forms of well-being that do not depend on excercising everyday and keeping a healthy diet, etc. I am not sure how to explain it without sounding abstract...
In any case, I also enjoy sports like you guys are saying, but being honest, I'll say that the only ones I really play are basketball and hardcourt soccer. However, I don't play sports in order to be healthy. When I've felt the need to be physically healthy I plan an excercise routine and everything.
About risk-taking: I would never ever see myself getting a pilot's license. Diana, you've got guts :wink: ... Also, if I'm getting too close to a cliff I'll definitely stay away. Though this happens to me too when I am close to those low rails that are supposed to impede your fall in top floors. Whenever I see one I imagine how it could really provide protection to people if they happen to trip close too close to the edge.
There is definitely something which recently I've noticed about me. For some reason I have this tendency to erase something I wrote like five times until I see that it is decent looking to continue on. You might think I am joking, but I could spend a minute erasing and then redrawing a line until it is straight enough...
My favorite "reference book", which unfortunately is not fully inside my head yet, are the type descriptions in socionics.org and other reference works used by everybody else here. If I then think that I have typed someone else I know correctly, and my personal observations of them confirm the theory, then I believe I understand the type well enough. In the case of INFj, I could see the hidden agenda in the two INFjs I know very clearly.
What I try to do is to have a broad-brush, not too defined image of each type inside my head, which I then refine with personal observations and those of people here or from the reference works. But that mental image, however I change it, can never become too defined, otherwise it won't work.
If I understood correctly, what you are saying is that you avoid having any feelings toward the types so that you can have a clear and factual understanding of them?
In that case, I agree that it must be the only way to become a good resource.
It's not a good idea to have feelings towards the types, but I don't see how that can be totally avoided.
What I meant is that I avoid having a too defined image of the types.
How to spot an INFj
Well, the topic says the most..
How do I spot an INFj with a room full of people? Just out of the blue?
is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.
I think my swedish teacher is one!
She looks kind of melancholy (had to look it up
Several of my classmates have commented that she is a little pissed at me to
I mean.. they are INFj, how bad can it be?
"sensitive" "If I ignore a problem, it will go away."
"Any signs of tension in a relationship indicate the relationship has gone bad; therefore, I should cut it off." -- it's raining! we're taking in water! abandon ship!!
Well. I think they can "hurt" (=completely ignore) your hidden agenda and hit your PoLR. The fact that 99% of your actions probably have ethical implications you are not aware of might make them critical towards you and make you feel confused and unappreciated. The fact that they really don't give a damn about Se and instead of getting excited by it get annoyed by it will probably frustrate you a lot too. You will try every ESTp trick you have and they just get more pissed and ignore you more. Eventually they are just continuously pointing out your ethical flaws (=how evil and unlikable person you are) or act like you didn't even exist and there is nothing you can do about it.I mean.. they are INFj, how bad can it be?
Heh, this is probably too dramatic. I'm not sure if I have ever even met an INFj
Yes. The first paragraph is a little exaggerated... It's not thatSuperman wrote:
I mean.. they are INFj, how bad can it be?
Well. I think they can "hurt" (=completely ignore) your hidden agenda and hit your PoLR. The fact that 99% of your actions probably have ethical implications you are not aware of might make them critical towards you and make you feel confused and unappreciated. The fact that they really don't give a damn about Se and instead of getting excited by it get annoyed by it will probably frustrate you a lot too. You will try every ESTp trick you have and they just get more pissed and ignore you more. Eventually they are just continuously pointing out your ethical flaws (=how evil and unlikable person you are) or act like you didn't even exist and there is nothing you can do about it.
Heh, this is probably too dramatic . I'm not sure if I have ever even met an INFj And conflicts can take some time to develop. For some time it can be very interesting, new and different from what you have used to. I'm not encouraging you to avoid them in any way I think I would like them at least in small doses.and
At the beginning stages of meeting, there can be no obvious signs of potential disagreement, since both have developed other aspects of their personality. In time, you will see that the other is not on the "same page" as you, or in other words, have a completely different approach and outlook. Best is to avoid, as in not having contact with each other and not knowing of the other's existence.
I'll give you an example, and where I put an asterisk is when each hits at the other's PoLR. These are based on actual experience. EII - INFj, SLE - ESTp.
In this case, the SLE has brought bunnies to class in order to gain the teacher's approval for his group project, which involves experimenting on them by injecting hormones. Based on his theory, the bunnies will survive afterwards, but if they die, he will put the fact in the report... (
- SLE: "ha haaa" (laughing like some guy in the Simpsons after something that was apparently funny)
- EII: (goes over to the bunnies) "I heard that bunnies have this condition that causes them to die at certain altitudes" *
- SLE: (sad/angrily) "you are so pessimistic, why'd you have to say that?" (gets disturbed)
- EII: (surprised that he is actually attached to the bunnies, considering they are going to be given injections) "hey, I am just saying something I heard, maybe that is there problem"
- SLE: (shaking his head as if sadly offended, making a big show) "man... see what he did? he said that the bunnies are going to die, he's so pessimistic"
- EII:
This is another situation, actually the first time I met the SLE (this was a long time ago when I was beginning High School). I am sitting with my bestfriend from school at the time who now I realize is probably INFp, and we are talking.
- SLE: (comes over to where we are and sits in table after INFp friend invites him over)
(we start talking trivial things when suddenly disaster comes)
- SLE: "stupid" * (with a smile on his face, and friend smirks)
- EII: "huh?"
- SLE: "mountain beast" * (trust me, sounds a lot worse in spanish) (friend laughs)
- EII: (can't believe my "friend" is actually laughing at someone calling me names, start getting worked up).
- SLE: (starts getting more agitated and obnoxious in name calling while friend laughs as if it is the funniest thing in the world)
- EII:
These are a couple of possible little examples of the friction between the two.
I think it's more likely that the EII is going to pwn your ass for your displays of hidden agenda. They will ridicule you for attention seeking! (I have seen this happen)Well. I think they can "hurt" (=completely ignore) your hidden agenda and hit your PoLR. The fact that 99% of your actions probably have ethical implications you are not aware of might make them critical towards you and make you feel confused and unappreciated. The fact that they really don't give a damn about Se and instead of getting excited by it get annoyed by it will probably frustrate you a lot too. You will try every ESTp trick you have and they just get more pissed and ignore you more. Eventually they are just continuously pointing out your ethical flaws (=how evil and unlikable person you are) or act like you didn't even exist and there is nothing you can do about it.I mean.. they are INFj, how bad can it be?
Heh, this is probably too dramatic
This is not ESTp, just dumb asshole. You needed an ExTj at your side to punch him in the face to make him stop.
- SLE: "stupid" * (with a smile on his face, and friend smirks)
- EII: "huh?"
- SLE: "mountain beast" * (trust me, sounds a lot worse in spanish) (friend laughs)
- EII: (can't believe my "friend" is actually laughing at someone calling me names, start getting worked up).
- SLE: (starts getting more agitated and obnoxious in name calling while friend laughs as if it is the funniest thing in the world)
- EII:
These are a couple of possible little examples of the friction between the two.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yes, but not all the time -- I'd simply say that they are not loud, and make the impression of being nice, kind and caring (which, usually, they are).
I think conflicting relations can work if:I want to see what this conflicting thing really is about
- there’s a mutual respect
- the partners have respect for each other’s way dealing with things
- there’s some interest and sympathy
- the partners appreciate each others strenghts and tolerate the weaknesses
- they are able to forgive mistakes
- they try to understand each other („Why is s/he doing that?”)
I don’t want to say that INFjs and ESTps will become good friends, but they might be acquaintances and the relation might look like the one of a collaboration partners – rather formal (at least my relations with ISTjs look that way). I have seen INFj-ESTp relations that are working surprisingly well.
me
My sister is an INFj. She likes to sit to the side during parties and watch what's going on. She also keeps track of who needs something to eat or drink.
She is very nice and has a quiet voice. She nods a lot when she's listening to people talk, like to keep them going.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Ishy wrote:
If the presence of an INFj does not exude a calm-submissive state to others, then he/she will probably try to lower the level of excitement, as in reducing overly-spontaneous behavior. When I was in my early school years everybody labeled me as the "saint" because I didn't want, or even try to cause trouble, which if I did would lead to some kind of excitement in the environment which I was (am) not comfortable with. I hated when teachers punished me for something, because I didn't like them to use agression on me, which works with other kids.I think it's more likely that the EII is going to pwn your ass for your displays of hidden agenda. They will ridicule you for attention seeking! (I have seen this happen)
My presence in the classroom actually made kids stop what they were doing crazily once they saw me, because it made them feel ashamed in some way. I didn't have to say anything, just looking at them with the dispassionate face I've had all my life. What Ishy says is true in that I would try to make people stop showing dramatic displays of emotion to get people's attention, but not by ridiculing them though. Well, it might look like it is ridiculing...
@ ENFperator: hmm... well, at a distance. MSN chatting distance :wink: .
Back to what the topic is: just look at the person who sits at the side of the room, doesn't display emotions, has a dispassionate face (in socioniko.com they show that well), and if you ask him/her something will most likely help you. Well, that's the external factor.
INFjs and me
Someone has let me know that I have spread misleading information about INFjs on the forum -- I had not realized this, certainly I have no agenda in this regard, nor did I realize that I had written more about INFjs in particular than about other types.
Any INFj care to comment?
An INFJ Comment
I do not know the issue. If you could link to the posts you have written about INFjs... What it sounds like is that you have had experieces with people you believe are INFJs that do not coincide with somebody's self perception. The trouble in socionics is always that there are screwed up people with every type, but also - and I think this is important - you perceive people in one way based on your life experiences and Type of Information Metabolism etc. whereas others may have entirely different motives and approach to life.
"Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
martin_g_karlsson
@Diana, fever and CuriousSoul: thanks!
I don't know exactly which information was supposed to be misleading, I was just told in general terms that I seemed an INFj-basher.
INFjs - are these INFj quirks or is it just my sister?
My sister has a few quirks and I wonder if it's related to type or just her.
She is constantly thinking she sees famous people. Well not constantly, but we live in a pretty small town and there just aren't a lot of famous people around here. It is highly unlikely she has seen more than maybe one or two famous people here ever. Still, she tells stories about all these famous people she's run into and she's positive it's true. If you argue that it just isn't likely she's seen a famous person she'll get upset.
Also, she calls me sometimes like four or five times a day. She does the same to my mom. Why does she call me all the time? And how does she know just the minute I'm sitting down for dinner?
And she wants to get together and do things all the time, but she always wants me to go to her place. She never wants to come here.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Probably just your sister.
"Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
martin_g_karlsson
LOL
Probably
We get along really really well, but she still drives me nuts.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Maybe the part about celebrities has to do with the fact that she might not be good at recognizing faces too much... ahem.
About the caling. Unlike other people, there are those who do not understand what is the big deal in calling someone a lot. hehe... The good thing is that it means she likes you.
You'd be surprised as to how one can predict someone's activity based on small things that escape the person's attention. I think I would freak people out if they knew how much thought I put into analyzing their routines, and trying to predict what they will do.
This has no correlation with any type or function.this is likely an INFj trait because of weak
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Well, if your speaking about details that's a whole different story. I this applies to all sensors in general.yeah, exactly.
(visual memory)with letters and numbers... it's easier, they r just little black and white 2-dimensional structures on a piece of paper, really no details visually. but remembering the details of someone's face is
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
What is interesting is that one can be good at spoken language and its pronunciation, while not being able to remember what someone tells you a few seconds ago. However, if it is a situation involving sufficient emotional impact I might even be able to replay scenes of the conversation as they happened in real life. For some reason, I am able to play a complete song in my mind, appearing as if it were also being played in real life. This is the reason I despise listening to catchy bad songs...
In any case, not being able to notice the physical is not something to be proud about. I swear that you could put flowers in my house and I would not notice them until my attention accidentally passes over them.
I always thought the memorization of facial features would be Fe.
Arcanum, I do the same thing. I memorize everyone's schedule so i know when it'd be rude to call or not.
RE: the sister. My ENFp friend is like that. She has the phone stuck to her face. I ignore 1/3rd of her calls and still manage to talk to her a lot. I'm not a huge fan of the phone. I like it every once in a while--usually for finding out what there's to do. However, I could listen to my ISFp friend forever. His imagination is endless.
I have a hard time recognizing faces too! My friend's like, do you see her. I'm like, I don't know, she's too plain looking, I forgot her face. And then I completely forgot about some guy's face but only remember his voice so when I saw him again, it was like wahhh, is that what you look like.
INFP
@ Nicky
Like Diana and fever, I really don't like using the phone unless it is necessary or if I'm absolutely sure the other person likes talking and listening to me (and I like them, too). It seems to be an INFj trend, so if your sister is INFj then it probably means she really likes and is comfortable with you. Which fits perfectly with how you describe your relationship.
re: fever's question -
I'd say I'm more visual than aural as far as thinking, remembering, learning, etc. If I can picture something, I remember it a lot better than if it's just non-visual statistics. For example, I can remember that I read some concept somewhere at some point in my life, but I usually have a hard time pinpointing its source unless I can associate the book cover (it's distinctive features, not necessarily exactly how it looked) or where on the page I read it (e.g. top-left, bottom-right). The same goes for learning. It's very hard for me to grasp math concepts if I just read or hear them. Fortunately, my dad was a math major plus he is great at visually explaining and demonstrating such things to me. Whenever I ask him to explain something to me, I always bring a plain piece of paper and a pencil.
I love picture books - I always reach for those first when in a library. Either that or those that I can create images of my own, like story books. It's an automatic reaction, even if I end up getting something completely different. Kids' books are so fun; I love the illustrations!
As far as remembering names, it definitely helps if I have it written out so I can look at it. And, like Diana said, using associations, even if it's just silly alliteration ("merry Mary"), make it a lot easier to recall them.
All that said, I'm generally terrible at noticing (and remembering) my surroundings. It's like I have to consciously look and take note for it to make a lasting, detailed impression. So I guess it's no surprise that new environments or ones that are sensory rich, like a market place, can send me into information overload. It's like there's so much to notice and evaluate all at once. It's hard to determine what's important to notice and what's not. If I feel safe or protected and if I have time to focus on what attracts me, it's not so bad. But if I'm rushed or put under pressure I can get pretty flustered.
Also, even though I'm mainly a visual thinker/learner, I like words, their sounds, meanings, etymologies. In fact, I love figuring out new words simply by breaking down their roots and endings. And I like matching them that way, too. Like - empathy, sympathy, symphony, telephone, teleport, transport, transform, formulate, emulate... See how it flows? Not that I'm constantly doing this; but I find it enjoyable and use it to figure out and remember those long biology, chemistry, and geology terms. Anyway, this is going a little off topic, so I'll stop here...
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
in addition i've not know infjs to be particularly into celebrities so i am not sure they would care if they saw one
I do not remember faces that well too. So, when someone whom I supposedly don't know call me, I'm kinda embarrassed and don't know how to react 'cos I don't know if they got the right person or it is me who has forgotten abt them.this is likely an INFj trait because of weak
however, seeing "famous" ppl would not be type-related.
@ other INFjs... how do u think (aural/visual)? i've been wanting to ask this for awhile now? maybe i should have started a new thread?
i have an excellent visual memory of words and numbers... i remember visually seeing (not saying) them in my head which would lead me to think i am more of a "visual thinker" than "aural thinker" (hey, i guess i wasn't a phonetics kid). anyhow, take this for instance, if i have to learn new ppl, i would more easily learn them by... first seeing a list of names, scanning over and memorizing them, and then putting the names with the new faces. i would more quickly learn them this way rather than using the opposite approach, learning their faces and then trying to remember their names. i remember things i see on paper more than my actual physical surroundings. what about other assumed INFjs?
EIIs-INFjs What are they like? Your experiences with them
what kind of people are they?
I'm going to throw some theoretical definitions against this 'problem' for my own convenience; don't let it distract you. Please contribute in any way you would like.
Positive narrators: upbeat, tells stories with a personal interpretation.
Aristocratic: has predetermined value judgment on issues. personal beliefs.
Process type: focussed in action, has goals that it feels it will never reach and thus continually keeps active.
Construct creating, compliant: ready to help anyone who asks for it. "cannot refuse if asked to do something" (I. Weisband)
Stategical, calculating: responsible about matters of long term importance. Thinks ahead.
Not sure if I interpreted those correctly.
My grandmother may be one of these. Is it common for INFj's to behave like 'caregivers' in the sense that they cater to the needs of visitors with great enthusiasm, doing more than what's asked of them?
Re: INFj's - what are they like?
I would say yes in the sense that many INFjs I have met have a problem with saying no to doing a favor for someone from wanting to feel useful and like they are a "good" person.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Re: INFj's - what are they like?
Yes.
Look at the INFj uncovered thread in Delta.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Re: INFj's - what are they like?
I wouldn't say, "{so that they feel} they are a 'good' person," rather: desiring to feel sufficiently useful in order to "justify" one's existence sometimes ... seeking Te to compensate for overwhelming inner sense of Fi, perhaps, for balance.I would say yes in the sense that many INFjs I have met have a problem with saying no to doing a favor for someone from wanting to feel useful and like they are a "good" person.
If you want to know about INFjs I would suggest spending less time coming up with theoretical definitions and more time getting out to meet real INFj's.
Reply With Quote
