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Thread: Alpha Fictional Characters in Movies and Literature

  1. #161
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    yah.
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    If you think that there is no respect whatsoever in which ESFj is a type with a persistently more positive attitude than INTp, you haven't paid any attention to what is being said and written about the types. It is not a ridiculous idea at all. ENTjs are near the top of the ranking of positivity in terms of their general attitude and behavior at a place only slightly below the ESFj. INTp is probably the lowest of all the types on this ranking.
    There are both positive and negative aspects to all the functions, which will vary on a number of factors, including mood and mental health.
    It's more likely that people are mistyping others, based on such misconceptions than anything else.

    The only time in the story in which Saruman displays something describable as the physical confidence of Se is when he battles and imprisons Gandalf in his tower. This scene may very well not exist in nearly the same detail in the actual written story. The rest of the story is all about him commanding things from out of his safe tower where anything physical can not reach him. It's exactly when this physical security gets breached (Ent attack) that things go awry for him.
    Se is "the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required"
    This doesn't always equate to physical confrontation, but the use of any forceful behavior

    See Se PolR in LII's and EII's:

    "The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.

    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do."



    Mainly his body type, which is unique to IP types.
    Body type is not exclusive to Socionics type

    The unworldly uniqueness (there was no "fantasy" at that time in any form close what exists now) of everything he has created is also IP > any other temperament and strongly indicates Ni. Pretty much every other temperament would have stuck to something more recognizable and easy to relate to.
    Do you just make things up as you go along? Seriously

    Yes, he was worried about very general trends, not specific things that harmed him. Ni > Si.
    I provided a short example of some of the themes he discusses, that however is not the general reasoning for his typing.

    And "not specific things that harmed him. Ni > Si"

    Do you honestly believe that EII's only care about themselves?
    Last edited by Marie84; 09-12-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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    Marie84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    To reflect and delight in?

    Sounds like utter ******ry. What about that suggests Ti/Fe?
    It's from Socionics.org I believe. They're rather accurate mottos, as they do sum-up the general ideologies of the quadras due to function preference

    The shire is a Delta heaven.
    It's Ne+Si, but with a slight preference for Fe>Fi. There doesn't seem to be any strong Ti and little Te (just in agriculture), so maybe it's just Alpha+Delta-ish
    A pure Delta society would be a little more...dry

    * Alphas feel energized by the free exchange of positive emotional expression in an atmosphere pleasing to the senses (a celebratory atmosphere).
    *Alphas show affection for others in the form of small practical services or gifts.
    *Alphas focus on maintaining a consistent sense of harmony, where the balance of the immediate environment is mingled with emotional expression.
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  4. #164
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    I don't know what book you read, the Shire is full of drama. A lot of weight is put on family names and all that. They're also mistrustful of outsiders, and with the exception of Bilbo and the others, hobbits rarely step into the outside world.

    # Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time.
    # Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

  5. #165
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    Movies. Hobbits are a race of SEIs. Every single one of them.

  6. #166
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84
    There are both positive and negative aspects to all the functions, which will vary on a number of factors, including mood and mental health.
    It's more likely that people are mistyping others, based on such misconceptions than anything else.
    Actually mistypings are happening all around because people are unaware of these things. Typing Gandalf as ENTj would be a great example. With knowledge of ENTjs that is available it is a typing that can immediately be excluded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84
    Se is "the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required"
    This doesn't always equate to physical confrontation, but the use of any forceful behavior

    See Se PolR in LII's and EII's:

    "The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.

    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do."
    Descriptions are not magically right just because they are on wikisocion. My opinion of this description, based on my own experiences as an INTj, is that it mistakes certain characteristics of Weak Ti for Weak Se. The only times an INTj really feels bad about imposing himself on others when s/he knows she is justified to do so is when the effect of doing so manifests in a concrete, physical way. It at such times that the action requires a more hands-on, common-sense way of calculating results, something that conflicts with the INTj's predominant mode of thinking.

    Shortcut to the argument: if Maximillien Robbespiere can be a typical INTj, so can Saruman. The kind of self-confidence they displayed was on the exact same level. Saruman was commanding a bunch of primitives that couldn't begin to resist his rule and oppressed rural peoples that didn't know better than to work for bullies one way or another - except for the hobbits, which were also helpless and harmless for obvious reasons. All of this was happening in places far away from him that he mostly only received the news from by proxy. Conquering western middle-earth was like a game of chess from his position. You're not going to tell me an Se PoLR prevents a person from playing chess effectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84
    Do you honestly believe that EII's only care about themselves?
    They're intuitives, so no. But they don't focus on trends as much as INTps do.

  7. #167
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    I don't give a f*ck about Gandalf, just saying.....

    Can we get back to the topic at hand?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    It's from Socionics.org I believe. They're rather accurate mottos, as they do sum-up the general ideologies of the quadras due to function preference



    It's Ne+Si, but with a slight preference for Fe>Fi. There doesn't seem to be any strong Ti and little Te (just in agriculture), so maybe it's just Alpha+Delta-ish
    A pure Delta society would be a little more...dry

    * Alphas feel energized by the free exchange of positive emotional expression in an atmosphere pleasing to the senses (a celebratory atmosphere).
    *Alphas show affection for others in the form of small practical services or gifts.
    *Alphas focus on maintaining a consistent sense of harmony, where the balance of the immediate environment is mingled with emotional expression.
    That is not Alpha or at least not a good general picture of Alpha. It seems to be a group of either incredibly boring 9w1 ISFps or 9w1 ISTps.Ti/Fe is more dramatic, calculating, "epic", and... natural. That description sounds hoity- toity and pretty damn mediocre.

    Lets have a pretty little celebration and give eachother pretty little gifts!

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  9. #169
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    I don't give a f*ck about Gandalf, just saying.....

    Can we get back to the topic at hand?
    I agree. Any further Gandalf/Tolkien discussion should go to another thread.
    Quaero Veritas.

  10. #170
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Bilbo Baggins (ISFp?) was ostracized in the shire for being adventurous. How is that consistent with the place being alpha?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I agree. Any further Gandalf/Tolkien discussion should go to another thread.
    Done.

    So could we please move discussion there, so that more positive identification/listing can resume in this thread?

    Please move Tolkien and Middle Earth discussion HERE instead. Thanks.
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    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Actually, my assessment of Vash was as an EII.
    He had that go-it-alone attitide. I think an EII would be more dependent on other people. Other people had to intrude on his business to make him realize that he couldn't do it all by himself. Wouldn't you agree that is more characteristic of LIIs than EIIs? The idea that only *I* can do this thing--no one else can help me.

    hkkmr posted this about EIIs:
    The ethical subtype appears polite and tactful, constrained and passionless. They tend to keep some distance in dialogue and may seem strict and/or cold. Gradually, however, this impression dissipates as during dialogue their sincere sympathy and desire to assist is revealed. Serious, quiet and benevolent people, are usually scrupulous and tactful, they lack the ability to joke or flatter. In times of dispute with others they prefer to leave silently rather than resort to diplomacy. Are very hardworking, laborious, patient and assiduous. Will not stand for violence and injustice. Consecutive and firm in their principles. Ably creates comfort by decorating the home with hand-made articles – work well with their hands. Countenance is guarded – they seldom smile.. Pays attention towards maintaining a thin figure; dresses modestly with taste and elegance. Their movements are smooth yet firm, their gait quick yet restrained. They sit straight and seldom gesticulate while in conversation.
    Those in bold would definitely not describe Vash. Vash smiled and joked all the time, like he was hiding some emotional pain. EIIs are much more comfortable in expressing their emotions and sentiments than LIIs (as you should know) prefer to conceal these things to keep the atmosphere from getting heavy and emotional.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    He had that go-it-alone attitide. I think an EII would be more dependent on other people. Other people had to intrude on his business to make him realize that he couldn't do it all by himself. Wouldn't you agree that is more characteristic of LIIs than EIIs? The idea that only *I* can do this thing--no one else can help me.
    Based on other EIIs I have encountered? No, I wouldn't agree. Vash's "go-it-alone attitude" stemmed from emotional concerns for others. So what you think ought to be is the case for the EII is not necessarily what is.

    hkkmr posted this about EIIs:

    Those in bold would definitely not describe Vash. Vash smiled and joked all the time, like he was hiding some emotional pain. EIIs are much more comfortable in expressing their emotions and sentiments than LIIs (as you should know) prefer to conceal these things to keep the atmosphere from getting heavy and emotional.
    But I do not think that this was Vash's central motivation for keeping his inner feelings secret. Also keep in mind the nature of Vash's advice and comments that he gave to others. It fell on ethical concerns and ideals, and far less concern on correcting logic and facts. Also consider just how well adjusted Vash is to the emotional suffering of others. How would you expect someone with an Fi-role to react? Would an LII be capable of Vash's level of empathy?

    BTW, Fear of Sleep, have you considered that you might actually be EII?
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    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Would an LII be capable of Vash's level of empathy?
    good question.
    BTW, Fear of Sleep, have you considered that you might actually be EII?
    My personality is one big clusterfuck, but I know that LII is the only thing that can fit. I've hovered around SEI, LSI, EII, and IEI, but it always comes back to LII. Yet, I am steadily becoming more oriented towards personal things, and less about scholarly, intellectual matters. Maybe that's something I should make a video on... when I get around to it.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    lol you kinda make me feel like the robot who thinks he's human.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    lol you kinda make me feel like the robot who thinks he's human.
    How so?
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    More Fictional Alphas:

    The Princess Bride
    Westley: ILE
    Buttercup: SEI

    I think the movie is an excellent depiction of the Alpha ideal of love. Notice how love is portrayed not as a static connection (Fi), but as a deeply-felt passion (Fe).
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Dracula (the novel):

    Jonathan Harker: LII
    Mina Harker: ESE
    Dr. Van Helsing: ILE
    Dr. Seward: LII?

    I get the impression, just from reading the novel, that Bram Stoker was himself LII -- LII seems to be the default model for the characters.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    More Fictional Alphas:

    The Princess Bride
    Westley: ILE
    Buttercup: SEI

    I think the movie is an excellent depiction of the Alpha ideal of love. Notice how love is portrayed not as a static connection (Fi), but as a deeply-felt passion (Fe).
    Princess Bride always struck me as being more Delta > Alpha.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Princess Bride always struck me as being more Delta > Alpha.
    How come?
    Quaero Veritas.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    How come?
    The way you can basically understand the entire plot is "Something happened to influence a character's identity in the past -> they act that out in the present." Definitely Ne, and most likely Fi. I think Alpha characters tend be less "built from the past" than Delta characters (as in, the characters within a work of fiction belonging to one Quadra or the other, the work of fiction being the Quadra inhabitant). For Alpha, think things like The Big Lebowski where all the plot is really based in the present; or Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann where "characters" get mixed in like flour on a regular basis, and you laugh at the way they interact with each other.

    I think also an internal theme of "telling stories to people" is very Delta. Robert Heinlein's Time Enough For Love springs to mind, as does The Princess Bride's interactions with the viewer (in the book), or the grandfather's interactions with his grandson (in the movie).

    EDIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I think the movie is an excellent depiction of the Alpha ideal of love. Notice how love is portrayed not as a static connection (Fi), but as a deeply-felt passion (Fe).
    Also, on this, the introductory sequence basically explains how Westley and Buttercup grew close and developed enough of a bond for Westley to go seeking her out after a very extended separation. Similarly for Inigo "You Killed My Father" Montoya, he's shown as being "stuck" in that vengeance relationship with Mister Fingers or whatever his name is.

    That AFI scored it on their "AFI's 100 Years... 100 Passions" list reinforces that it's quite possible to view the Designated Couple as holding "deep feelings of passion" (Fe) or being "stuck" (Fi).
    Last edited by male; 10-01-2009 at 08:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    How come?
    Because I saw a static relationship. The "wuv, true wuv" is portrayed as being an unchanging, static connection existing across time between Wesley and Buttercup. There really is not too much of what you would call the emotional efficacy of Fe displayed by too many characters in the film. Instead, the focus is on the nature and shape of the emotional relationships between the characters.
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    About Princess Bride.

    Super-Ego is area of idealism and perfection. ILE's are limited in their behavior concerning here because they feel painfully their mistakes. They can cut off relationships for minor problems and maintain relationships that would otherwise end in their mind. It is quite a impractical approach to relations.

    Concerning 4th function Fi which is a Inert function

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Inert and contact

    Inert functions: 1, 4, 6, 7

    Inert functions are those that do not integrate information from the environment; thus, the strength of these functions remain the way they are. A person does not seek guidance in these areas as they comprise the core of their natural strengths and weaknesses.

    -Inert functions 1 & 4 are a part of the Mental loop; these are essentially one's most confident strengths (Base) & debilitating weaknesses (PoLR). It is for this reason that strong judgments about these aspects of reality are inadvertently made.
    I don't see Wesley as EII, but IEE have a very different view of Fi then ILE's. They're much less fixed in relationships and more fluid.

    As far as historical precedents and other fictional accounts.

    You have a similar idealistic notion of love in Don Quixote, Cyrano De Bergerac(Another Don Quixote), Hunchback of Notre Dame(Quasimodo), D'Artagnan and Constance, The Count of Monte Cristo and Mercedes.

    The ideas of lost love, unrequited love, idealistic love, true love are all very common in Alpha literature. The Princess Bride has a similar structure to The Count of Monte Cristo(Dread Pirate Roberts, vengeance, lost love).

    Taking historical precedent, we have some like Karl Marx(ILE) who fell in love with his childhood playmate who was 4 years older and outside his class and married her and was with her for the rest of his life. They were engaged secretly for many years before finally getting together. Two people totally devoted to each other.

    I think it's very important for us to distance as the sole factor in romantic relationship, because covers more practical relationships as well such as professional relationships and any relationships viewed as positive, or relationships percieved as profitable. This is due to 's duality with .

    also is involved in human relationships, these are less forgiving relationships which we view as not merely beneficial or preferential but neccessary. Necessary relationships between people produce by passion, uncontrolled or otherwise with a limited regard for benefit or actual execution.

    What is true love but passion without regard for all practicality. But yea... once in a hundred years... It's not the stuff of mundane drudgery.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    The way you can basically understand the entire plot is "Something happened to influence a character's identity in the past -> they act that out in the present." Definitely Ne, and most likely Fi. I think Alpha characters tend be less "built from the past" than Delta characters (as in, the characters within a work of fiction belonging to one Quadra or the other, the work of fiction being the Quadra inhabitant). For Alpha, think things like The Big Lebowski where all the plot is really based in the present; or Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann where "characters" get mixed in like flour on a regular basis, and you laugh at the way they interact with each other.

    I think also an internal theme of "telling stories to people" is very Delta. Robert Heinlein's Time Enough For Love springs to mind, as does The Princess Bride's interactions with the viewer (in the book), or the grandfather's interactions with his grandson (in the movie).
    Storytelling is certainly not just a Delta theme. Alphas seem to be pretty damn good at it. Dumas, Hugo, Cervantes to name a few.

    As far as characters not being built from the past, have you read Dumas or Hugo.

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Storytelling is certainly not just a Delta theme. Alphas seem to be pretty damn good at it. Dumas, Hugo, Cervantes to name a few.
    My bad. I was just thinking over some other things I'd think are Delta having an element of "someone telling someone else a story, within the work of fiction itself", I wasn't saying that the actual act of storytelling belongs to any particular quadra.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    As far as characters not being built from the past, have you read Dumas or Hugo.
    Nope!

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    About Princess Bride.

    [Lots of stuff]
    Thank you! I was going to write up a big post about this, but then you went and said everything I was going to say, only better!

    This idea that only Fi types are able to maintain their love over long periods of separation is crazy; if anything an Fi type might be more likely to give up on impractical love due to their valued Te. The reason that Westley and Buttercup maintain their love for one another over so long a separation is not because of some dry Fi bond, but a deep, burning Fe passion which cannot be quenched, and an introverted logic that is not dissuaded by practical realities.

    For example, is the "sound of ultimate suffering" that Westley emits under torture a result of Fi, or Fe? I contend that any movie which portrays such an intense display of Fe as profound or meaningful has to be Fe-valuing.
    Quaero Veritas.

  27. #187
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    Fig 1. Intuiters arguing

  28. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Thank you! I was going to write up a big post about this, but then you went and said everything I was going to say, only better!

    This idea that only Fi types are able to maintain their love over long periods of separation is crazy; if anything an Fi type might be more likely to give up on impractical love due to their valued Te. The reason that Westley and Buttercup maintain their love for one another over so long a separation is not because of some dry Fi bond, but a deep, burning Fe passion which cannot be quenched, and an introverted logic that is not dissuaded by practical realities.

    For example, is the "sound of ultimate suffering" that Westley emits under torture a result of Fi, or Fe? I contend that any movie which portrays such an intense display of Fe as profound or meaningful has to be Fe-valuing.
    And the idea that only Fe types experience passion and that Fi bonds are dry is equally bogus.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    And the idea that only Fe types experience passion and that Fi bonds are dry is equally bogus.
    Well, yeah, I agree; I was being subjective for a moment and describing Delta/Gamma relations from an Alpha viewpoint. Since Fi-valuers suppress the expression of Fe, they tend to appear somewhat boring and passionless from an outside Fe-valuer perspective.

    Obviously, Fi-valuing types would rather feel positive Fe than negative Fe, but it's not nearly as important to them as it is to Fe-valuing types. Fi-valuing types would rather have a solid, reliable Fi connection than all kinds of intense passion. Fe-valuing types would of course like that too, but it's not as important to them as Fe passion. While both are present in The Princess Bride, the emphasis is pretty clearly on Fe passion, in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Well, yeah, I agree; I was being subjective for a moment and describing Delta/Gamma relations from an Alpha viewpoint. Since Fi-valuers suppress the expression of Fe, they tend to appear somewhat boring and passionless from an outside Fe-valuer perspective.

    Obviously, Fi-valuing types would rather feel positive Fe than negative Fe, but it's not nearly as important to them as it is to Fe-valuing types. Fi-valuing types would rather have a solid, reliable Fi connection than all kinds of intense passion. Fe-valuing types would of course like that too, but it's not as important to them as Fe passion. While both are present in The Princess Bride, the emphasis is pretty clearly on Fe passion, in my opinion.
    I guess this is where our differences lie, because I deemed it to be a clear emphasis on Fi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I guess this is where our differences lie, because I deemed it to be a clear emphasis on Fi.
    What Delta types are the characters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Copy
    The Princess Bride is a true fantasy classic. William Goldman describes it as a "good parts version" of "S. Morgenstern's Classic Tale of True Love and High Adventure." Morgenstern's original was filled with details of Florinese history, court etiquette, and Mrs. Morgenstern's mostly complimentary views of the text. Much admired by academics, the "Classic Tale" nonetheless obscured what Mr. Goldman feels is a story that has everything: "Fencing. Fighting. Torture. Poison. True love. Hate. Revenge. Giants. Hunters. Bad men. Good men. Beautifulest ladies. Snakes. Spiders. Beasts of all natures and descriptions. Pain. Death. Brave men. Coward men. Strongest men. Chases. Escapes. Lies. Truths. Passion. Miracles."
    William Goldman deconstructed generations of adventure fiction into this humorous conceptual tale. At once a satire but also a homage.

    He's not the first person to do this, it's happened before.. Don Quixote is the good stuffs edition of a historical story related to Cervantes by Cide Hamete Benengeli.

    And if you think this is of no consequence, Cervantes is one of Goldman's favorite authors.

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    Wesley: LSE
    Buttercup: EII

    What Alpha types are the characters?
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    Default Fictional ESFJs

    Because there isn't one already.

    Whenever I think of ESFJs, I think of Prier.

    http://disgaea.wikia.com/wiki/Priere







    Prier reminds me of my sister, who is ESFJ and has a strong interest in the visual arts.

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    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    >_< ...reasons?

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    Why Captain Jack is ESE should be fairly obvious to anyone even remotely familiar with the character.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    >_< ...reasons?
    I've been watching these shows for years and I have an ESE mother and grandmother...I have my reasons.

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    Animated/drawn characters are overwhelmingly preferred, for the simple reason that VI correspondence is advantageous. You don't always (or even usually) get VI correspondence between actors and the characters they portray.

    Anyway...

    Erika from Fire Emblem


    http://www.feplanet.net/media/gallery/5/


    Tifa from FFVII


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    VI doesn't work on fictional characters. Period.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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