Dolphin

[strrrng]

My intention wasn't to defend Steve

Well, dolphin's post was directed at Steve, so that is what the situation was about. If you had an idea about something more general, make your own thread. But don't sidetrack someone else's just to feed your Fi egotistical bullshit.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[strrrng]

Okay. I misunderstood where you were going with that then. I do not know the Steve issue, only bits and pieces read here and there so I wouldn't even be able to comment on that.

Precisely. Too bad we can't take back the two pages of wasted thread and energy that you incurred.

[Christy B]

You're the type of guy who will project a wise, all knowing persona, and then guilt trip a highschool girl for "handling the situation wrong" when she gets cold feet about meeting up with you. You're the type of guy who goes crying to Jadae to "punish" a couple of teenagers for making fun of you on an internet forum, then afterwards, you have the cowardice to talk to them civilly, as if nothing ever happened. I wouldn't let my worst enemy near you. What, aren't you 22 years old now? Don't you have a fucking degree? Better use some of that job money to get a new dermatologist.

Perhaps we should start a junior socionics page for those youngsters that feel picked on by the adults who visit the forums. That way they can have their own safe haven area. Obviously the ones who don't find age an issue would still be able to visit the normal pages.

What the heck? I don't understand where this comment is coming from... dolphin was referring to a specific person, Steve, she never said anything about feeling picked on by the older members of the forum....

???

Edit: I was writing this while the situation was being resolved......

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[strrrng]

Knock it off already. I may be arrogant and egotistical, but I wasn't trying to feed those qualities, just trying to flush the implications I saw out into the open to deal with them. Apparently dolphin wasn't saying what I thought she was, but you were. And now it's done.

I never said shit. You just implied it with your own arrogant, judgmental attitude.

Nice Fi escape attempt though

edit: when I made the comment about being picked on, it was only a sarcastic response to your idiotic notion about younger people feeling picked on. You are the one that started this stupid debate.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[strrrng]

What do you do with a chihuahua? I do not know. Yes, I'm arrogant and judgmental, but strrrng there's nothing more to bark about. It's done.

Everyone points out how Diana is wrong, therefore the situation is closed.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Christy B]

What do you do with a chihuahua? I do not know. Yes, I'm arrogant and judgmental, but strrrng there's nothing more to bark about. It's done.

If anyone is being any sort of dog here .. it is you and you know what I mean.

[Elro]

Everyone points out how Diana is wrong, therefore the situation is closed.

Too bad we can't take back the two pages of wasted thread and energy that you incurred.

I wonder who is doing the prolonging here.

[implied]

I wonder who is doing the prolonging here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A2moFdM1Yo

are you insinuating that this is cracka's fault?

[strrrng]

hmm. Indeed.

edited: this beta NF doesn't always think before he speaks, lol.

[Khola aka Bee]

Wow. You guys talk more shit than I do. That's quite an achievement.

I admit it Dolphin. I'm completely apathetic about you right now, and have no idea what your type is dur to a complete lack of interest. You caught me, I was basically just bored and making words. I guess you just don't interest me that much.

[strrrng]

Sorry Steve, but I feel compelled to point something out. I was too engulfed in the humor of this thread to notice it before, but during my coffee-session, which is known for sparks of genius (el oh el), I noticed something about the undertone of your attitude in this thread. So...

As per the rest of what you said, what can I say? lol

I guess I just must be a shitty person; I guess I should go away and cry in a corner. Woe is me...

These two statements essentially translate as: "I don't care about this thread or what you say; it doesn't affect me and is not worth my time."

There is a problem, though. You have in fact expended energy responding to this thread. As you adeptly pointed out to me recently, people only expend energy on things they care about; this is undeniable.

To care is defined as: to be concerned; to have an inclination for.

By the sheer fact that you have responded (multiple times, mind you) in this thread, you have proved that you do care (by definition). There is some inclination towards this thread, a concern on some level.

So, essentially, your posts (which translate basically as "I don't care") are contradictory in the most basic sense. You care enough to prove that you don't care.

What have I said before about people? They all act out of a desire for social benefit. This can manifest in a variety of forms.

So, the question becomes, what benefit are you hoping to achieve?

I would say that if someone is affected by something, and expends energy trying to prove how they are not affected, by using humor and subtle arrogance, they are probably concerned about their ego and with looking good to others. You weren't mean to dolphin, nor were you aggressive or confrontational in any way. In fact, you were quite diplomatic in proving how you didn't care about this issue.

So, essentially, you have expended energy trying to prove how you do not care, in an effort to save face and make yourself look superior in a friendly way (i.e. wanting other people to think you are a nice, harmless guy and that dolphin is being a moody bitch for attacking you), but in reality you seem to care very much - so much so, that you will hide behind the facade of amiability in order to preserve the image of yourself in others' eyes, and thus - hey! - benefit socially.

So, I hope you realize now that you are by no means better or more mature for eluding this debate. It would have been one thing if you hadn't responded; but you did respond, which nullifies the possibility that you don't care.

My advice: be direct; stop hiding behind friendly superiority and using the nice guy attitude to gain approval. If you have an issue with dolphin, just say it. The games have become transparent. In your attempt to appear like you are the bigger man, you are in fact the smaller man, as you are trying to prove something - both to others and to yourself - to compensate for some perceived threat (or w/e it is).

Done.

[calenwen]

what is this nonsense?

[strrrng]

what is this nonsense?

Shut the fuck up, you're not involved.

[Mediator Kam]

I am talking about Steve, and this is not true in Steve's case. This is not a bitch fest against all adults, but a particular adult, named Steve. This is not how younger people are demanding to be coddled and sheltered. This is about how the assumption that placing your trust in an adult because they have more experience and will thus exert better judgement calls is bullshit. As you grow older, you realize that most people in this world are out for their own ends. But the fact remains that older people have no right to manipulate younger people on the basis that they are more easily taken in. Steve purposely targets younger people who he percieves as dumb and naive. He knows he can't pull the same level of shit, that he can't spin as big of a fairytale pack of lies, with people his own age and older, so he purposefully targets young people. Steve once said in chat that he prefers girls who are "innocent" and not "jaded". What he really means is he prefers girls who, in their limited experience of people, have not met a con man like him, which makes it easier for him to feed on their vunerability. I'd say age doesn't matter, but it does. Steve used the assumption that older people can be trusted to make mature decisions to try to guilt me into doing something that was stupid, wrong, and possibly dangerous. He presented it as something natural and normal, and when I back out, he painted me as the bad guy, the irrational, emotional one who "betrayed" him, who couldn't be trusted to know her own mind. I had previously told him truthfully about my gut feeling that this thing that was happening was wrong. He advised me to ignore it. Steve probably knew it was only a matter of time before I wised up, so he took this chance to harshly lay on the guilt about how when I broke it off, I didn't "handle" it maturely. As if he had the right. I almost wouldn't care, there are a million slimeballs on the internet, but like strrrng said, he takes great care to preserve his "nice guy, reasonable" image. Steve preaches to others about maturity. And then turns around and becomes a childish, manipulative shithead. He was attracted to my video because I present myself as immature, ie, "the idiot of Socionics". It was probably a godsend for someone like Steve, who had been watching and waiting and probably despairing of someone so naive and sheltered to fall into his lap. Then I came along, and he could finally live out his fantasy of a young dumb adoring girl who never failed to swallow his shit when others were untrue. Typical 6 bullshit. That now he paints himself as some sort of wounded hero who doesn't want to get "involved", is really the ultimate deception and a hallmark of his particular style. You can choose to believe it's "nonsense". Obviously you have not had enough experience with him to percieve the truth. But keep your distance, and don't come crying to me when he turns out to be not what he seems. I'd like to give people a record of what Steve is actually is, behind his long suffering attitude and majestic ideals. I'd like to think that maybe they'd use this knowledge and not make the same mistakes I did. I'd like to think that because of this, there will be one less slimeball in the world to worry about. But people were, are, and will be stupid.

Steve/Higgs Boson '08.

[Suomea]

...

[crazedrat]

lol @ strrrrng ripping steve a new one

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Lotus]

I really don't have much to say here. I'm annoyed at most of this thread's contents. I find it particularly rude that Kamangir would quote it and make it into a joke and that others keep posting in questions to get involved. I think she explained enough already and quite frankly none of you deserve anything else from her. It's a sensitive issue.

I don't see anything other than ISFp. It wouldn't surprise me if she now tell us she's gamma just like Allie recently did, for reasons I would love to hear.

Yes, and guess what else? I'm the one who suggested she might be ESFp instead of ISFp too. If you want reasons, ask me. But then, you avoid all forms of direct communication with me.

Anyway, most of my problems stem from trusting people I shouldn't have, and knew I shouldn't have, but decided to put my gut feelings aside and try not to be so cynical and suspicious. It bit me in the butt as soon as I turned around. So, if that's the same thing that happened to you, then I understand completely.

Yeah, Diana. I think that's pretty much what happened in this case.

[Mediator Kam]

I really don't have much to say here. I'm annoyed at most of this thread's contents. I find it particularly rude that Kamangir would quote it and make it into a joke and that others keep posting in questions to get involved. I think she explained enough already and quite frankly none of you deserve anything else from her. It's a sensitive issue.

I would agree with you, but unfortunately, Dolphin has a penchant for dramaticism and twisting things out of proportion. I got the facts from both sides and I consider Steve to be much more believable. Once you lower yourself to hate speech, I've lost all respect for you.

[Steve]

I am talking about Steve, and this is not true in Steve's case. This is not a bitch fest against all adults, but a particular adult, named Steve. This is not how younger people are demanding to be coddled and sheltered. This is about how the assumption that placing your trust in an adult because they have more experience and will thus exert better judgement calls is bullshit. As you grow older, you realize that most people in this world are out for their own ends. But the fact remains that older people have no right to manipulate younger people on the basis that they are more easily taken in. Steve purposely targets younger people who he percieves as dumb and naive. He knows he can't pull the same level of shit, that he can't spin as big of a fairytale pack of lies, with people his own age and older, so he purposefully targets young people. Steve once said in chat that he prefers girls who are "innocent" and not "jaded". What he really means is he prefers girls who, in their limited experience of people, have not met a con man like him, which makes it easier for him to feed on their vunerability. I'd say age doesn't matter, but it does. Steve used the assumption that older people can be trusted to make mature decisions to try to guilt me into doing something that was stupid, wrong, and possibly dangerous. He presented it as something natural and normal, and when I back out, he painted me as the bad guy, the irrational, emotional one who "betrayed" him, who couldn't be trusted to know her own mind. I had previously told him truthfully about my gut feeling that this thing that was happening was wrong. He advised me to ignore it. Steve probably knew it was only a matter of time before I wised up, so he took this chance to harshly lay on the guilt about how when I broke it off, I didn't "handle" it maturely. As if he had the right. I almost wouldn't care, there are a million slimeballs on the internet, but like strrrng said, he takes great care to preserve his "nice guy, reasonable" image. Steve preaches to others about maturity. And then turns around and becomes a childish, manipulative shithead. He was attracted to my video because I present myself as immature, ie, "the idiot of Socionics". It was probably a godsend for someone like Steve, who had been watching and waiting and probably despairing of someone so naive and sheltered to fall into his lap. Then I came along, and he could finally live out his fantasy of a young dumb adoring girl who never failed to swallow his shit when others were untrue. Typical 6 bullshit. That now he paints himself as some sort of wounded hero who doesn't want to get "involved", is really the ultimate deception and a hallmark of his particular style. You can choose to believe it's "nonsense". Obviously you have not had enough experience with him to percieve the truth. But keep your distance, and don't come crying to me when he turns out to be not what he seems. I'd like to give people a record of what Steve is actually is, behind his long suffering attitude and majestic ideals. I'd like to think that maybe they'd use this knowledge and not make the same mistakes I did. I'd like to think that because of this, there will be one less slimeball in the world to worry about. But people were, are, and will be stupid.

I'm sorry but all the assumptions you're making are simply untrue, as well as the way you portrayed the situation. I'm not sure why you've turned this thread into an all out assault on me. If you need a refresher of what actually happened I can send you all the chat logs, emails, and pm conversations that show what really happened and the way you conducted yourself and your motivations. I could post them here, but I respect people's privacy, and I don't see the point in engaging in political slandering.

Once again, it seems that the purpose of this thread went by the wayside. If you believe you're ESFp, go ahead, believe as you wish. No-one's going to force anything upon you. I simply stated the type belief I've gathered from the conversations I've had with you, which once again I gathered through my subjective impressions. So if my subjective impressions are stupid and pointless, then ignore them and move on with your socionics quest, and maybe put more energy on the people's opinions you actually do value.

[Mediator Kam]

I think we've all learned that when you deal with people, you better take notes and be wary.

[JuJu]

that cat has love in its eyes.

[crazedrat]

If you read up on it, often with superego relations (her being ESFp) one person is perceived as clingy and the other as really wanting the clinger to go away but having difficulty making them . I don't know about the other point of view, I've never experienced it . I think that describes this situation and relationship better than duality would. Duality would be a little happier, I think. ....

[Lotus]

I'm sorry but all the assumptions you're making are simply untrue, as well as the way you portrayed the situation. I'm not sure why you've turned this thread into an all out assault on me. If you need a refresher of what actually happened I can send you all the chat logs, emails, and pm conversations that show what really happened and the way you conducted yourself and your motivations. I could post them here, but I respect people's privacy, and I don't see the point in engaging in political slandering.

Oh Steve, what the fuck is with this ultimatum? It's somewhat disturbing to me, to be quite honest. Look at what you're asking her. She cannot say "no, don't post those" because it would look like she was hiding something. And she cannot agree either, which would be putting her in a position to allow you to selectively post whatever you have to manipulate the situation. I think you're disgusting, quite frankly.

So okay. Enough of your games and your bullshit. No one needs to see private chat logs, emails, and pm conversations. Because even when disregarding the specifics of the situation -- which are debatable, obviously -- the fact that you're even involved is enough to look down on. You can argue that she's lying if you want. Try and pretend you didn't manipulate her, that you didn't make her feel guilty for not wanting to talk to you anymore, that you weren't making her feel uncomfortable. But don't bullshit the stuff that is objectively true here. What, aren't you like twenty-two years old? Haven't you graduated college too? Dolphin's a teenage girl. You suggested meeting her. You can deny anything else you want, but not your age, and not that the situation existed. What were you doing in the first place?

Perhaps you should explain what your intentions were, Steve. Though I doubt you will. You never respond to anything I say to you. And I thought we were identicals, man. What happened?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[strrrng]

I would agree with you, but unfortunately, Dolphin has a penchant for dramaticism and twisting things out of proportion. I got the facts from both sides and I consider Steve to be much more believable. Once you lower yourself to hate speech, I've lost all respect for you.

You don't have any of the facts, dumbass. So stop coming into this thread, playing mediator like the fucking alpha SF that you are, and pretending you know what's going on. YOU DON'T, so shut your fucking mouth.

And lol indeed at you thinking steve is more believable. Not that he isn't, but the fact that you think that just goes to show how pathetically blind you are to anything that isn't apparently observable, i.e. trusting his nice guy act over dolphin's "dramatic" attitude. What's the word for that? Ah, yeah, stupid

lol @ strrrng ripping steve a new one.

lol

[strrrng]

I'm sorry but all the assumptions you're making are simply untrue, as well as the way you portrayed the situation. I'm not sure why you've turned this thread into an all out assault on me. If you need a refresher of what actually happened I can send you all the chat logs, emails, and pm conversations that show what really happened and the way you conducted yourself and your motivations. I could post them here, but I respect people's privacy, and I don't see the point in engaging in political slandering.

Oh Steve, what the fuck is with this ultimatum?

What the fuck is up, indeed...

The informal fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, or bifurcation) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options. Closely related are failing to consider a range of options and the tendency to think in extremes, called black-and-white thinking. Strictly speaking, the prefix "di" in "dilemma" means "two". When a list of more than two choices are offered, but there are other choices not mentioned, then the fallacy is called the fallacy of false choice. When two alternatives are presented, they are often, though not always, two extreme points on some spectrum of possibilities. This can lend credence to the larger argument by giving the impression that the options are mutually exclusive, even though they need not be.

Looks like that's what the fuck is going on. When will the games cease?

You've been playing games with me, too, Steve. Ever since I showed some hint of openness or whatever the fuck it was, most of our conversations have consisted of you trying to procure information from me regarding my relationships with ashton and the like, or random probing into my motivations. At that point I usually go off on some tangent about the 48 laws of power, instead of pointing out how silly what you're doing is. And also, why is it that I get the 6 (yes, this is indeed 6) treatment from you once I decide to acknowledge my mistakes? You spew this nobility shit about maturity and whatnot, as if you expect me to completely acquiesce to your point of view. It is highly irritating, in retrospect. Whether it's linking me to some stupid oprah show or lecturing me on why I shouldn't be friends with people like ashton and allie, it all has this air of righteousness about it that is fucking annoying. Get off your high horse and realize you're no better than anyone else. And as I already proved in my previous post (which you wisely chose not to respond to), you are actually making yourself look worse than the people you are subtly condescending to with these petty games. Give it up already. There comes a point where you cannot save face, and must accept defeat.

[strrrng]

I'm sorry but all the assumptions you're making are simply untrue, as well as the way you portrayed the situation.

Illusion of maturity and self-control.

I'm not sure why you've turned this thread into an all out assault on me.

Attempt at portraying yourself as the victim, albeit a mature one who cannot fathom the motivations of such "childish" acts.

If you need a refresher of what actually happened I can send you all the chat logs, emails, and pm conversations that show what really happened and the way you conducted yourself and your motivations.

Publicizing tactics in a subtle way to make dolphin feel inferior and make yourself feel in control. Also attempting to make her look stupid in others' eyes by alluding to some significant "evidence" that you have which would "refresh her memory" and demonstrate that it was her fault. But of course you said it nicely.

I could post them here

Again publicizing what you could do, in order to feel superior and in control.

but I respect people's privacy, and I don't see the point in engaging in political slandering.

Trying to appear as if you are too good to engage in such classless acts, after subtly conveying how you could do so if you wanted to.

I would have to agree with Allie on this. It's quite disgusting.

[Wynch]

Possibility: Perhaps dolphin felt as though Steve was trying to make her feel guilty for not wanting to talk anymore. Perhaps Steve felt genuinely close to dolphin and was hurt by her abrupt change of heart. Perhaps he unintentionally made her feel guilty as a way of assuaging his own feelings, which is not noble, but is certainly understandable. Perhaps he intentionally made her feel guilty and doesn't want to admit it. Perhaps the outcome was equally negative for both sides. Perhaps both sides have a part to play. Conflict resolution always requires both sides to recognize their roles in the initial conflict, because short of a circumstance of psychological issues, both sides have a piece of the responsibility.

Also: Why is it that Steve is automatically the bad guy here? Is it not possible that Steve has a side to the story? And you jump down his throat over offering to share the logs, but what else is he supposed to say when he has so many people demonizing him at the moment. Perhaps he is guilty here, I certainly can't claim all the facts, but are you not approaching the issue from a one-sided stance? Where are both sides of the story here? Nick, you've just taken apart Steve's post claiming he has a record of how the falling out happened. What did he do? He said he had logs of it. He said if people wanted to actually see for themselves how things happened and then make judgments then they were free to do so (which, let's be honest, puts him at a disadvantage too, because it's possible that he's misinterpreted events, and if there's something missing, dolphin was there and she can say so). Lastly, he didn't simply post them because that's an invasion of dolphin's privacy, which no matter how you look at it, is an entirely honorable thing to do. Really, the only way Steve can get an honest voice from his perspective at this point is by sharing those logs, so he's putting control back into dolphin's hands. If she's ok with sharing them, then people can take a look. If she isn't comfortable sharing them, then he doesn't post them and that's that. At this point everyone is already on dolphin's side in this argument, so if she chooses not to share them, then nothing changes for Steve. It's not as though that decision will somehow make him look better or her look worse, because those conversations were presumably rather private, considering the negative personal fall-out. I, for one, wouldn't hold her to blame if she didn't want them plastered on this forum.

Don't get me wrong here, I have no idea who's in the right, because I feel there's a reasonable doubt from both sides. I'm not even sure that there is a right or wrong person in this situation. At the present I would even say that dolphin is making a totally reasonable case, without anyone's help. What I do know is that this has become ridiculously one-sided. If Steve would like to actually share his side of the story (and people will actually take it into consideration) there might be two sides to this coin. Personally, considering his current reputation around here, I'm not surprised that he hasn't bothered to share it. It's not like people here are particularly interested in listening to his perspective with an open mind. So screw stories, he's skipping right ahead to the facts. I can respect that, even if his manner of going about it has been called into question.

[strrrng]

Nick, you've just taken apart Steve's post claiming he has a record of how the falling out happened. What did he do? He said he had logs of it. He said if people wanted to actually see for themselves how things happened and then make judgments then they were free to do so (which, let's be honest, puts him at a disadvantage too, because it's possible that he's misinterpreted events, and if there's something missing, dolphin was there and she can say so). Lastly, he didn't simply post them because that's an invasion of dolphin's privacy, which no matter how you look at it, is an entirely honorable thing to do.

It was his motivations that I was focusing on, not the post itself.

[Wynch]

It was his motivations that I was focusing on, not the post itself.

Yeah, I made a reference to that in the last sentence of my post.

[strrrng]

Yeah, I made a reference to that in the last sentence of my post.

His motivations are all that matter. The past several pages of this thread have been devoted to revealing his motivations for what he has been doing. Anything else is of secondary concern, and can be addressed later.

[Wynch]

Fair enough, but if that's the case, this argument needs to shift away from the subject of what happened between him and dolphin, because this hasn't exactly been a fair trial.

Side note: I just noticed how awesome your avvie is. Not sure how appropriate it is for me to say that since I'm at work right now, but we'll say it's more personal, not professional opinion.

[strrrng]

Fair enough, but if that's the case, this argument needs to shift away from the subject of what happened between him and dolphin, because this hasn't exactly been a fair trial.

No, it does not need to shift away from that incident, as that is what demonstrates his motivations the best, and is the central cause of dolphin's frustrations.

Side note: I just noticed how awesome your avvie is. Not sure how appropriate it is for me to say that since I'm at work right now, but we'll say it's more personal, not professional opinion.

Thanks