more to the point, for every enneagram type, since any socionneagram correlations are loose at best. a withdrawn triad sx type is remarkably different from an assertive triad sx.Originally Posted by strrrng
i'm also not sure why you'd be sx/sp as opposed to sx/so, although i'm inclined to not really assume that i understand variants very intricately or that i'm necessarily right about such things.
Well, that was the example I had the mind, but I had the impression that it was typical for you (and that you had mentioned it precisely because of that).
I can't give specific examples from the forum now, and if you say it's not the case I'm not going to dig for examples. Perhaps in the case of receiving Se from you there isn't really any good example in the forum; but you do seem to be dismissive of people whom you see as "pretentious" in using Se, as if they're not really up to your standards. One example is Ezra. I know you're now seeing him as Beta ST; but for quite some time you were seeing his Se as a front.
Let me put it this way. SLEs rather like being the person with the most Se in any situation, so obviously they don't mind people who are less keen on Se (they do mind people who will whine or complain or criticize them about it) than themselves. LSIs, on their part, dislike being around unemotional, gloomy and "cold" people even if many of them are like that themselves. EIEs dislike being around people who don't seem to know what they want, or who don't believe in anything, or who keep changing their minds.
And IEIs dislike - far more than SLEs or LSIs - being around people who seem lacking in willpower, firmness of purposes and ideas, etc. Maybe IEIs are more likely to find the stereotypical "weak people" contemptible than SLEs or LSIs.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
I see - and no, that example was valid enough. I do tend to get quite annoyed when peolpe attempt Se (see recent post to jrxtes's dumbass). I guess it might even annoy me more than when people attempt Fe.
Right, ok, but wouldn't an SLE be annoyed with someone trying to one-up them with Se, given that it is their domain? Or would it be more like a challenge, instead of pure frustration?Let me put it this way. SLEs rather like being the person with the most Se in any situation, so obviously they don't mind people who are less keen on Se (they do mind people who will whine or complain or criticize them about it) than themselves. LSIs, on their part, dislike being around unemotional, gloomy and "cold" people even if many of them are like that themselves. EIEs dislike being around people who don't seem to know what they want, or who don't believe in anything, or who keep changing their minds.
This is interesting.And IEIs dislike - far more than SLEs or LSIs - being around people who seem lacking in willpower, firmness of purposes and ideas, etc. Maybe IEIs are more likely to find the stereotypical "weak people" contemptible than SLEs or LSIs.
Right, sx/so is a fair suggestion (the only other remotely plasubile one IMO). I just think that my focus on the overall bodily/mental/emotional balance of sp is prioritized above my focus on others' approval or any social network. It may seem as though I focus on the latter, but this could also be attributed to Fe, and not reflect an underlying/instinctual drive.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I think SLEs tend to get annoyed with those they see as trying really to one-up them, and who are a serious threat.
They see it as "friendly sparring" if in a purely playful (even if "rough" way) - which is by the way what SLEs often do and is also often misunderstood as "bullying" - and in such situations, two SLEs go along fine. I think they tend to smile indulgently, or laugh at, those who try to one-up them but are obviously unable to.
And I think they will be truly annoyed if someone is trying to do that, has a good chance of succeeding, and in a situation where the SLEs really care about the outcome.
Sometimes it is bullying.
Of course.
This makes sense, and fits quite well with many of my experiences with ESTps (and some ESFps).
4w3-5w6-8w7
Still on that -- I think this is one of the manifestations of the ESI-SLE supervision. Due to the dismissal of, the SLE may not notice that a particular playful rough action may be seen as bullying by a particular individual ("why? Everyone else found it so funny!"). The ESI understands both the
at play but also the
Also, if you note my descriptions above of people some types don't want to have around, they are actually descriptions (more or less) of their quasi-identicals.
I think that you may have more to talk about with your quasi-identical (since the common club usually means you share at least some interests and skills) than with your conflictor, but the quasi-identical may irritate you more than your conflictor: your quasi-identical is the precise opposite of your ideal partner, the dual.
Aside @ Expat: this would be a great thread to start... Which types dislike being around which kind of people, e.g. as you said, LSIs around cold, gloomy ppl.
EDIT: ah, i see... You wrote that it's the quasi-identical... Still, very good info.
as you know i am not inclined to accept the socionics explanation as an enneagram reasoning. the Fe aspect is what i'm seeing which leads me to sort of think that. nor does you exactly strike me as somebody very preoccupied over "overall bodily/mental/emotional balance."
as i said, i don't claim to really understand this. but that doesn't mean i believe you or ashton as you designate variants to people seemingly at random, not necessarily excluding yourselves.
Regarding Expat's claim about Se egos' contempt for/rivalry with Se egos.
Good point, but I don't think that in the case of strrrng it concludes much. This is because as one of the few Se egos on the forum strrrng has regarded as being pretentious, I've noticed that he has no qualms with the other LSIs (PotatoSpirit, Markuz) and never did with Herzy. It's only with me. And he ended up correcting his mistake.
But that's not what I meant, if I understand you correctly. I mentioned that in the context of suggesting that strrrng's "high standards" for other people's Se could be precisely the manifestation as Se dual-seeking. The only time I mentioned "Se rivalry" was when I was explaining how I saw SLE-SLE (for instance) interaction.
I suggest that strrrng is indeed IEI, and that his contempt for people with "bad Se" is how the Se dual-seeking is visible in him. For some reason, he found yours "below the standards" which is why he commented on it. Obviously that did not happen with the others you mentioned, for whatever reason.
Well, could it be possible that there is a simpler explanation? That I am not Se ego, and that strrrng really does have something on that?
THEN IT WOULD OPEN A WHOLE NEW REALM OF POSSIBILITY!
I would say this is correct, but would prefer not to delve into my motivations for taking that stance towards Ezra, for the time being.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I just want to say that I think some people underestimate my understanding of the Eight and the ability to spot Eight tendencies in myself. strrrng, for a long time, you seemed to think that my thinking I was an Eight was due solely to my being loud and aggressive-speaking. Since then you've changed your opinions, but I'm not sure if I had anything to do with it, or if it was just you changing your observations. Expat has said just then that he reckons I think I'm an Eight because of my impulsiveness or something.
In reality, while I think forcefulness, aggression and impulse are part of the Eight, they certainly don't amount to what an Eight is. To think otherwise would be foolhardy.
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