View Poll Results: I am LII and I

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  • support the right to abort pregnancy up to and including the 2nd trimester

    7 46.67%
  • Do not support the right to abort pregnancy

    8 53.33%
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Thread: LIIs-INTjs: your views on abortion

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    Default LIIs-INTjs: your views on abortion

    I hypothesize thus, that under the conclusions of this thread "Logic vs Principle" (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=21094) that LIIs have reached consensus that the right of individual women to abort before the 3rd trimester is inherent and involiable. This poll is intended to test that hypothesis.

    Although of course anyone has the capacity to vote in this poll, only recognized LIIs on this forum will be considered in the context of the hypothesis.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    where is the middle ground?
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    where is the middle ground?
    How could there be such a thing on this issue? The choices are stark.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Perhaps not for LIIs, but for a lot of people the issue is not at all a made-out case. I myself am opposed to take away women's right to control their own bodies. On the other hand, we are dealing with life here, human life, and I sometimes think that in these days of sexual education and birth control methods, which are good ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy, it's sort of a disgrace that it still exists (not speaking of the proverbial cases, of course).
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Perhaps not for LIIs, but for a lot of people the issue is not at all a made-out case. I myself am opposed to take away women's right to control their own bodies. On the other hand, we are dealing with life here, human life, and I sometimes think that in these days of sexual education and birth control methods, which are good ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy, it's sort of a disgrace that it still exists (not speaking of the proverbial cases, of course).
    First of all, the use of morning-after pills would be covered by the first choice. I don't think it's a disgrace at all that it exists, just human nature. It's not the fault of the woman, but of the uncaring society in which she lives.

    I said the second trimester: the fetus does not develop to a point of self-sufficiency until well into the third. You can't really call anything that is not developed to the point that it can live outside the womb "human".

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    Great, we've got two apparent non-LIIs who voted, and Subterranean who of course....

    Where are the rest of the LIIs? MysticSonic? Carla? Logos? thehotelambush? Ms. Kensington? Oyyburger?

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    First of all, the use of morning-after pills would be covered by the first choice. I don't think it's a disgrace at all that it exists, just human nature. It's not the fault of the woman, but of the uncaring society in which she lives.

    I said the second trimester: the fetus does not develop to a point of self-sufficiency until well into the third. You can't really call anything that is not developed to the point that it can live outside the womb "human".
    Elborate for me: how many months is 2nd trimester?

    Some people would argue against your argument on the basis that people are increasingly taking these things lightly, and that there are more factors involved than just legal ones, or the argument of a stage of development, because human being are born way to early into their development in comparison to many other mammals. a human infant is totally helpless and not self-sufficient for a very long time. Would that be a reason to dump them if you want to get rid of them?

    Also, what to think of the following situation, which is currently the most common reason for teenage pregnancy in the Netherlands: 12 year old girls from 'immigrant' backgrounds being yelled at by their moms: "NO DON'T YOU DARE COME HOME PREGNANT!". Typiclly such a girl doesn't even know what brings about pregnancy. Two years later she does get pregnant, she's ashamed, she hide it from her parents until it's too late to do anything about it. Unspeakable tragedy. Now you can say: "what has that got to do with it?" I say: a lot. It's the kind of b&w thinking that prevents us from thinking about the issue. I say thinking about the issue and all its complexities is the first step towards reducing unwanted pregnancies to the smallest numbers possible. It starts with awareness.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    How could there be such a thing on this issue? The choices are stark.
    I do not agree with the government not allowing such a medical procedure. It should be legal.

    However, I do not agree with abortion. The child should brought up in a loving home, and if the biological mother cannot do that, then someone should.

    The middle ages had a system where unwanted children were raised by the church, and these children grew into young adults that were often sought after by aristocracy for marriage. They were educated and healthy and possibly lived a better life than if they had not befallen an unfortunate circumstance at birth.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    I do not agree with the government not allowing such a medical procedure. It should be legal.

    However, I do not agree with abortion. The child should brought up in a loving home, and if the biological mother cannot do that, then someone should.

    The middle ages had a system where unwanted children were raised by the church, and these children grew into young adults that were often sought after by aristocracy for marriage. They were educated and healthy and possibly lived a better life than if they had not befallen an unfortunate circumstance at birth.
    Should should should should... idiot, there are no such opportunities. They don't exist.

    That's not a bad idea, but the conservatives would never let it happen, and in any case it doesn't trump a woman's right to choose. Considering how many fetuses are aborted each year, you'd end up with a generation of orphans. That is not going to happen, and rest assured you are far too weak to bring it about.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 09-05-2008 at 08:26 PM.

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    ...
    Last edited by Suomea; 09-28-2008 at 01:20 AM.
    Suomea

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    ...
    Last edited by Suomea; 09-28-2008 at 01:20 AM.
    Suomea

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    I support the right to abortion when the woman is in labor.
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