Gammas and the Ad Hominem fallacy

[consentingadult]

This thread has grown a little bit to long for me to repond. Not really needed anyway, positions have been made clear, many of us will probably not come to some understanding, we probably won't even agree to disagree. So be it.

If anyone feels a serious need to discuss this matter in more detail and in a respectful manner, you'll know how to find me.

[Joy]

It doesn't take a genius to work out that there is a group of bullies-a heirarchy if you will, of people who look to control socionics and it's interpretation of it on this forum. When someone steps out of line with that on this forum they are belittled, ostracized, ridiculed even, passively or not so passive aggressively attacked.

Although why they act that way, I don't know fully, and how some people can align themselves to it, makes me wonder, do they really believe, or are they just afraid and looking to fit in.

It's like the kids at school too busy trying to be someone else identity than express their own, or the guy that buys his boss a paper and a coffee every morning while on his way to work. These people exist in many places, and I know we all have to "fit in" to some degree, but how much and at what cost?

This is a pretty telling post.

Not in this case. Expat is covering up for the fact that he is not as knowledgeable as many people believe. Now that isnot his fault, his fault is that he basks in on this glory, and even goes so far that he belittles me in a very clever way in order to maintain that position.

This perception still confuses me. I have no idea where you're getting this idea, but I dare say that Expat is one of the people I understand best on the forum, and you're way off. But if believing this makes you feel better somehow, knock yourself out.

[Slacker]

It doesn't take a genius to work out that there is a group of bullies-a heirarchy if you will, of people who look to control socionics and it's interpretation of it on this forum. When someone steps out of line with that on this forum they are belittled, ostracized, ridiculed even, passively or not so passive aggressively attacked.

Although why they act that way, I don't know fully, and how some people can align themselves to it, makes me wonder, do they really believe, or are they just afraid and looking to fit in.

It's like the kids at school too busy trying to be someone else identity than express their own, or the guy that buys his boss a paper and a coffee every morning while on his way to work. These people exist in many places, and I know we all have to "fit in" to some degree, but how much and at what cost?

You know, sometimes people just agree.

[Joy]

You know, sometimes people just agree.

Yes, and there's a reason for it.

[discojoe]

Not in this case. Expat is covering up for the fact that he is not as knowledgeable as many people believe.

Actually -- and I'm not being facetious -- Expat is probably more knowledgeable than many people believe.

Let's see:

1. He's fluent in English, Portuguese, and German.
   
2. He has a Ph.D. in chemical engineering.
   
3. He has extensive knowledge on such things as history, economics, politics. He could probably teach these subjects, from what I've seen.
   
4. He knows more about Socionics than most people who are alive.
   
5. While you may scoff at this, he knows vast amounts of stuff about comic book pop culture, movies, science fiction, etc.

I'm telling you, the guy has an encyclopedia in his head.

[Joy]

I'm telling you, the guy has an encyclopedia in his head.

And he has no pride or insecurity about his level of knowledge. It's just business as usual to him.

[Joy]

(And I can understand why some people/types would find this unpalatable and try to see it as some kind of symptom or call him a bully.)

[Logos]

Yes, and there's a reason for it.

And obviously the reason is conformity.

[Joy]

And obviously the reason is conformity.

And here I thought is was because it makes it easier to gain up on people who we wish to be punitive to.

[Logos]

And here I thought is was because it makes it easier to gain up on people who we wish to be punitive to.

Because they want to conform and not be ganged up on themselves.

[tcaudilllg]

No, as you have not been satisfactorily belittled yet.

It is clear that if you cannot create a new identity that you should accept yourself as you are, warts and all.

You should not belittle others in order to make yourself feel important unless you are exceptionally talented.

Only one individual in every generation has this gift, and I know that this individual is not you.

Eh well, I don't think you're in position to draw that assertion.

[Subteigh]

Eh well, I don't think you're in position to draw that assertion.

Uh well, he is one of the greatest actors to have ever lived, if not THE greatest.

[consentingadult]

Actually -- and I'm not being facetious -- Expat is probably more knowledgeable than many people believe.

Let's see:

1. He's fluent in English, Portuguese, and German.
2. He has a Ph.D. in chemical engineering.
3. He has extensive knowledge on such things as history, economics, politics. He could probably teach these subjects, from what I've seen.
4. He knows more about Socionics than most people who are alive.
5. While you may scoff at this, he knows vast amounts of stuff about comic book pop culture, movies, science fiction, etc.

I'm telling you, the guy has an encyclopedia in his head.

1. I'm fluent in Dutch, English and German, average in French, and I can manage in Spanish and Italian
2. I have no Ph.D., but I earn a lot more money than my buddies from Uni who have masters degrees and the one who is Dr. in mathematics.
3. I too have an extensive knowlegde on history, politics (before I went in therapy that was my major pastime, and I even admired Ayaan Hirsi Ali when she just started her political career). I was once adicted to documenatry channels. This just hasn't come out on this forum, which I'll explain below.
4. I know more about what Socionics really means
5. I don't scoff at that, I have my own collections of things that I'm knowlegeable about, but have no practical use whatsoever.
6. EDIT TO ADDnce I was also an asshole similar to Expat, belitteling people for their misunderstanding and stupidity, in very subtle ways. But, in the spirit of what Byron Katie teaches: turn it around! If I say that you are stupid, I'm basically admitting to my own feelings of defectiveness.

I'm telling you: I've stopped counting the number of times people tried to insult or tease me by calling me a walking encyclopedia.

The thing is: all that shit has only caused me a lot of stress in life, and I learned that most of these behaviors meant nothing else than that I was evading the obvious, that is that I didn't really live and enjoyed life. I'm trying to rid myself of these behaviors that once felt egosyntonic.

[Subteigh]

I have a large penis.

[Joy]

1. I'm fluent in Dutch, English and German, average in French, and I can manage in Spanish and Italian
2. I have no Ph.D., but I earn a lot more money than my buddies from Uni who have masters degrees and the one who is Dr. in mathematics.
3. I too have an extensive knowlegde on history, politics (before I went in therapy that was my major pastime, and I even admired Ayaan Hirsi Ali when she just started her political career). I was once adicted to documenatry channels. This just hasn't come out on this forum, which I'll explain below.
4. I know more about what Socionics really means
5. I don't scoff at that, I have my own collections of things that I'm knowlegeable about, but have no practical use whatsoever.

I'm telling you: I've stopped counting the number of times people tried to insult or tease me by calling me a walking encyclopedia.

The thing is: all that shit has only caused me a lot of stress in life, and I learned that most of these behaviors meant nothing else than that I was evading the obvious, that is that I didn't really live and enjoyed life. I'm trying to rid myself of these behaviors that once felt egosyntonic.

discojoe writes:

What I said had nothing to do with how knowledgeable you are, and wasn't intended as any kind of comparison between yourself and Expat. I was merely pointing out that Expat is in fact extremely knowledgeable -- more than most people on the forum are probably aware -- therefore subverting your claims to the contrary.

Your rebuttal is nothing more than a self revealing window into your personal insecurities. It's funny to see you insist on pretending that you're not bother by the fact that everyone sees you as the forum's newest running joke.

[consentingadult]

I have a large penis.

That points towards Se-role.

[consentingadult]

Your rebuttal is nothing more than a self revealing window into your personal insecurities. It's funny to see you insist on pretending that you're not bother by the fact that everyone sees you as the forum's newest running joke.

No, its just part of the forum that sees me as the newest running joke, just those that I make feel uncomfortable and feel a need to attack me and people like me in order to maintain their deluded sense of self worth and eliminate the cignitive dissonance. Suppose for a second that it is I who am deluded? I think a healthy person would then simply ignore me.But no, I make a statement that displeases people, and immediately I have a whole army against me. Well, I'm not stepping out of the way.Some people we could rub a diper of fresh baby poop into their faces, and they still wouldn't smell the poop. That's what's happening here. If it wasn't so said, I would take it as a running joke.

Fortunately, there are also people here who have a more respectful approach to discussion and investigation.

[implied]

I have a large penis.

[Joy]

No, its just part of the forum that sees me as the newest running joke, just those that I make feel uncomfortable and feel a need to attack me and people like me in order to maintain their deluded sense of self worth and eliminate the cignitive dissonance. Suppose for a second that it is I who am deluded? I think a healthy person would then simply ignore me.But no, I make a statement that displeases people, and immediately I have a whole army against me. Well, I'm not stepping out of the way.Some people we could rub a diper of fresh baby poop into their faces, and they still wouldn't smell the poop. That's what's happening here. If it wsn;t so said, I would take it as a running joke.

Fortunately, there are also people here who have a more respectful approach to discussion and investigation.

discojoe writes:

If you think that this retaliation was provoked by one isolated statement, then your interpersonal skills are crippled.

[consentingadult]

discojoe writes:

If you think that a this retaliation was provoked by one isolated statement, then your interpersonal skills are crippled.

There is nothing wrong with my interpersonal skills. I'm an okay guy.

[jason_m]

I think the problem with your post is that: 1) You concluded that ad hominems are somehow associated with Gammas, and 2) You insinuated that Expat was being hostile towards you, when that does not seem to be the case. Had you ranted only about ad hominems in general and not pointed out Expat in your post (only those who do regularly seem to use these arguments), then more people would have agreed with you.

Jason

[crazedrat]

i dont completely disagree with CA. Gammas on this forum have a horrible understanding of socionics. They actually get things backwards more often then not .. as steven colbert puts it: "there's a certain skill to being always wrong" ... they're really working on it

[FDG]

EVERYBODY IS STUPID INCLUDING ME


HOWS THAT FOR AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK, UH?

I FUCKING WIN!!!!

[FDG]

I'm sure many people on this forum recognize themselves in the following: being bullied by caretakers who only gave us love on the condition that we adhered to their standards, leaving us no room to be ourselves, leaving us no space to shape our own personalities, who robbed us of our capacity to make our own life choices. Many of us have scars on our hearts and souls. I propose we break the cycle in which we perpetuate that we transfer our attitudes towards our caretakers onto each other, and really start learning from each other, learning how to connect, learning to grow. This will, however, not happen when people are not taken seriously or belittled be being called 'idiots' all the time.

HEY MY DOG REFUSED TO HAVE SEX WITH ME WHEN I WAS A KID, I'M SO SCARRED

[Slacker]

This forum isn't a support group.

[consentingadult]

i dont completely disagree with CA. Gammas on this forum have a horrible understanding of socionics. They actually get things backwards more often then not .. as steven colbert puts it: "there's a certain skill to being always wrong" ... they're really working on it

My personal opinion about ILIs: great insight and a good sense for quality, but with the habit of taking themselves as a reference point when coming up with a solution (well, don't we all?)

I'll blog about this somewhere this week.

[consentingadult]

This forum isn't a support group.

Are you sure about that?

[munenori2]

Are you sure about that?

If it is then it's an argument for sado-masochism.

[consentingadult]

I think the problem with your post is that: 1) You concluded that ad hominems are somehow associated with Gammas, and 2) You insinuated that Expat was being hostile towards you, when that does not seem to be the case. Had you ranted only about ad hominems in general and not pointed out Expat in your post (only those who do regularly seem to use these arguments), then more people would have agreed with you.

Jason

You are taking your conclusions too far: I never said anything about other quadras and ad hominem, neither positive nor negative, the extrapolation is yours, not mine. And I never said he was hostile to me, only that he used ways of belittlement to nullify me. Now why do I experience this, and other members not? I think it is because I'm the only one on this forum (or perhaps one of the very few) that he regards as a threat. Now I perfectly understand most people think Expat is an okay guy: they cannot beat him at his own game, so he typically has no need to nullify them. As opposed to some other people on this forum, who are way less secure in their knowledge of Socionics, and thus easier resort to ad hominem behaviors.

[Darkstar]

your argument is wrong for the following reason: you cannot answer the following question:

in a right triangle ABC with right angle C, CA = 30 and CB = 16. it's legs CA and CB are extended beyond A and B. points O1 and O2 lie in the exterior of the triangle and are the centers of two circles with equal radii. The circle with center O1 is tangent to the hypotenuse and to the extension of leg CA, the circle with center O2 is tangent to the hypotenuse and to the extension of leg CB, and the circles are externally tangent to each other. The length of the radius of either circle can be expressed as p/q, where p and q are relatively prime positive integers. Find p+q.

There is no question

[Darkstar]

hmm if the extension is the same direction as the legs then it cant be done, if the circle tangent the hypotenous then the middle of the circle is a right angle from the hypotenous.

maybe if the edge of the triangle is.. hmm nha. its null

[aestrivex]

hmm if the extension is the same direction as the legs then it cant be done, if the circle tangent the hypotenous then the middle of the circle is a right angle from the hypotenous.

maybe if the edge of the triangle is.. hmm nha. its null

that is not the correct answer.

[Darkstar]

NO! your question is faulty

[aestrivex]

NO! your question is faulty

that is not the correct answer.

[Subteigh]

[Darkstar]

what so O1 and O2 isnt part of the extension

well its a lame question anyway

edit: Maybe I take another look at it tomorrow

[Cuddly McFluffles]

<3

[Brilliand]

your argument is wrong for the following reason: you cannot answer the following question:

in a right triangle ABC with right angle C, CA = 30 and CB = 16. it's legs CA and CB are extended beyond A and B. points O1 and O2 lie in the exterior of the triangle and are the centers of two circles with equal radii. The circle with center O1 is tangent to the hypotenuse and to the extension of leg CA, the circle with center O2 is tangent to the hypotenuse and to the extension of leg CB, and the circles are externally tangent to each other. The length of the radius of either circle can be expressed as p/q, where p and q are relatively prime positive integers. Find p+q.

That question is solvable. Therefore I can solve it. Q.E.D.

Oh, very well.

O1 = (a,b)
O2 = (c,d)
hypotenuse: 16y+30x=30*16
(30a+16b-30*16)/34=e
(30c+16d-30*16)/34=e
a=e
d=e
sqrt((a-c)^2+(b-d)^2)=2e
15/17*e+8/17*b=e+240/17=15/17*c+8/17*e
7*e+8*b=9*e+240=15*c
8*b=2*e+240
15*c=9*e+240
sqrt(2*e^2-ec-be+c^2+b^2)=2*e
2*e^2-ec-be+c^2+b^2=4*e^2
b=1/4*e+30
c=9/15*e+16
c^2+b^2=e*(2*e+c+b)
(9/15*e+16)^2+(1/4*e+30)^2=e*(2*e+9/15*e+16+1/4*e+30)
81/255*e^2+2*9/15*e*16+256+1/16*e^2+2*1/4*e*30+900=2*e^2+9/15*e^2+16*e+1/4*e^2+30*e
27/85*e^2+1/16*e^2+1156-57/20*e^2-177/15*e=0
-3529/1360*e^2-177/15*e+1156=0

Someone take it from here - e is a fully simplified and probably improper fraction, the larger of the two possibilities, where the denominator plus the numerator is the answer to the question.