Gun control cartoon

[discojoe]

Unfortunately it's not this simple; a "law taker" can easily become a "law breaker" if he has a gun strapped to his hip in the rare occasion that the fragile manhood of people who need a gun strapped to their leg to feel safe is threatened enough to use it irrationally. People ALREADY die in one-on-one combat over retarded things like their kid's ice hockey games; what kind of shit would go down if guns were involved in every petty dispute that got people's hackles up? It sounds like a good idea, but people forget how often utterly stupid disputes turn to violence that wasn't the original intent of either person just because a situation escalates out of control.

I have to laugh at the video's claim that putting guns into the hands of people is an effective way of "preventing tyranny." Who is going to stand up to a cop who is persecuting someone unjustly? Even if people do, then you have the added problem of even more widespread dumbassery in the form of people "taking justice into their own hands." This fairy-tale idea of having an insurance policy on the law's inability to cover all it's bases would probably just end up leading to a fuckload of easily avoidable court cases in our already-over-worked judicial system, more people in our already-crowded jails, and, yes, more people dead over pointless bullshit, because people felt the need to promote their own fallacious sense of justice in a situation where they, wielding a gun, finally had the power to do something.

If gun control laws were stripped away, I would carry one just to protect myself from the people who wanted them repealed in the first place. I think it's good that shop keepers are allowed to have them, and I'm totally down for people wanting to protect their families, but the thought of everyone walking around with a 9mm on their belt just makes me shake my head at how paranoid we have become collectively.

The bottom line is violent crime goes up, not down, in places where gun control laws have been created. Law-abiding people having guns, though scary to some, prevents more deaths than it causes.

How many people would have died in Virginia Tech if the students had been armed? The gunman would have been shot down in seconds. Sure, some innocent people may get hit in crossfire, but I doubt 30 people would have been killed.

[Gilly]

Ok, so there's one instance in the last year where a few lives might have been saved. Now consider how many idiots live on our country who have small enough penises/brains/emotional stability quotients or big enough egos/anger problems/insecurities that they would feel justified using a gun in a completely inappropriate situation.

IMO, the balance tips rather obviously in favor of people NOT running around strapped from the age of 21 on.

[discojoe]

Ok, so there's one instance in the last year where a few lives might have been saved. Now consider how many idiots live on our country who have small enough penises/brains/emotional stability quotients or big enough egos/anger problems/insecurities that they would feel justified using a gun in a completely inappropriate situation.

IMO, the balance tips rather obviously in favor of people NOT running around strapped from the age of 21 on.

People who carry concealed firearms are much less likely to break the law than unarmed people.

[Gilly]

That could be for numerous other reasons than that they choose to carry a gun.

...Is that actually true?

[discojoe]

That could be for numerous other reasons than that they choose to carry a gun.

...Is that actually true?

Yes. Also, those kinds of people you're worried would start trouble with their guns would probably be worried about getting shot in turn, and the kinds of people who would care are the kinds that would have guns anyway, imo.

[discojoe]

http://hematite.com/dragon/gunclock_stats.html

[Wynch]

The bottom line is violent crime goes up, not down, in places where gun control laws have been created. Law-abiding people having guns, though scary to some, prevents more deaths than it causes.

How many people would have died in Virginia Tech if the students had been armed? The gunman would have been shot down in seconds. Sure, some innocent people may get hit in crossfire, but I doubt 30 people would have been killed.

FYI:

Canada Firearms Registry - 2001
Population 33 million
Since:

2 school shootings
3 deaths
Ratio of school shootings to population: 0.06
Ratio of deaths in school shootings to population: 0.09

USA
Population 300 million
Same timeline?
20 school shootings
77 deaths
Ratio of school shootings to population: 0.07
Ratio of deaths in school shootings to population: 0.26


Also:

In a cross-border comparison for the year 2000, Statistics Canada says the risk of firearms death was more than three times as great for American males as for Canadian males and seven times as great for American females as for Canadian females.

*CBC

The risks of gun control?

[discojoe]

etc

The school shooting comparison is trivial, and your comparison of male deaths doesn't mention if the guns were legal or not, or if the gun violence took place in places where gun control prevented people from defending themselves.

[Wynch]

Considering the fact that gun control laws are federal in Canada, I wouldn't say that place of law application is an entirely relevant point. And I'm only bringing up school shootings to show that gun control has very little effect on the outcome of school shootings (other than the fact that less deaths seemed to occur in Canada relative to both # of shootings and population?). In anycase, I don't really have strong opinions on gun control, though I rather like knowing that when I walk down the street, the only way people are walking around with firearms is if they're doing it illegally or if they're police officers, thus any firearm will draw immediate suspicion of motive and opportunity.

If you'd rather everyone could carry around firearms wherever then that's fair enough by me. I just wanted to point out that your school shootings example seemed fairly irrelevant.

[discojoe]

Considering the fact that gun control laws are federal in Canada, I wouldn't say that place of law application is an entirely relevant point. And I'm only bringing up school shootings to show that gun control has very little effect on the outcome of school shootings (other than the fact that less deaths seemed to occur in Canada relative to both # of shootings and population?). In anycase, I don't really have strong opinions on gun control, though I rather like knowing that when I walk down the street, the only way people are walking around with firearms is if they're doing it illegally or if they're police officers, thus any firearm will draw immediate suspicion of motive and opportunity.

If you'd rather everyone could carry around firearms wherever then that's fair enough by me. I just wanted to point out that your school shootings example seemed fairly irrelevant.

But in the US, gun control is a state issue, (meaning, each of the 50 states has its own laws on the matter, and some states even allow cities and towns to have their own laws) so statistics that compare Canada's school shootings with those in the US need to take into account where in the US the shootings took place.

[Wynch]

But in the US, gun control is a state issue, (meaning, each of the 50 states has its own laws on the matter, and some states even allow cities and towns to have their own laws) so statistics that compare Canada's school shootings with those in the US need to take into account where in the US the shootings took place.

Let's use your example then: Virginia Tech - 33 deaths.

Virginia allows unlicensed open carry of a handgun that has a capacity of twenty rounds or less. Restrictions on campus? Yes: Gun Free School Zone act, CHP holders are allowed to have guns on school grounds in their personal vehicles as long as they stay in the car and the gun remains concealed.
(largely quoted from well-referenced wikipedia article)

Sounds like your argument is unfounded...

[discojoe]

Let's use your example then: Virginia Tech - 33 deaths.

Virginia allows unlicensed open carry of a handgun that has a capacity of twenty rounds or less. Restrictions on campus? Yes: Gun Free School Zone act, CHP holders are allowed to have guns on school grounds in their personal vehicles as long as they stay in the car and the gun remains concealed.

Sounds like your argument is unfounded...

...Why would anyone bother to have guns on campus if they're not allowed to take them out of their cars?

Sure, if half the students had guns in their cars, I'm sure a few of them would have run and gotten them when el chino started his rampage, but that law is meant to discourage students from having guns in the first place by creating strong legal incentives for them to not carry one.

Another point you're missing is that there is little incentive to enter a dangerous situation, even when armed. How many people do you think would have left the danger zone, retrieved their gun, then reentered it in order to stop the shooter? The point of being able to carry a gun is so you can react at the precise moment of being inserted into a dangerous situation, not so you can go fight a battle after making a safe retreat.

[Markuz]

...I don't really have strong opinions on gun control, though I rather like knowing that when I walk down the street, the only way people are walking around with firearms is if they're doing it illegally or if they're police officers...

+1

[Gilly]

*thinks about it*