Beta Zoids or Delta Droids?!

[idolatrie]

Actually, let me give you a hint of how that looks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by unefille
I wanted to add that when I see the ideal 'home' life, I see us doing a lot of stupid things. Like baking cake and getting flour over everything, including my hair and throwing sprinkles at each other. Or getting coffee and the paper ending up by chasing each other around the garden (with leaves in autumn colours, of course). Or, I don't know, playing footsie under the table when at dinner with 'proper people' like in-laws, I guess.

There's always this element of fun and 'acting up' - trying to make even the most mundane tasks (like cleaning the dishes or doing taxes) a little fun and playful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unefille
I have this idea of sitting there, reading, writing and studying with my significant other in a really cosy room, with rugs and yellow lighting and this sense of togetherness of the individual activities that doesn't require verbal communication. And then as the hour gets late and I'm yawning a lot, he'll hand me a cup of milky tea and a shawl to wrap myself in.

But that's the thing. I believe that unefille's previous descriptions are both true, and lying by omission.

When we were living together, we had crazy domestic scenes like that. We had some utter disasters in the kitchen, which we teased each other endlessly about, but ultimately it all boiled down to having fun in our own crazy way. Sure, you may look at it and say, that's all Si. But Si was the vehicle to creating this Fe mood. The purpose isn't to produce a good meal, to sastify ourselves with the food. But rather to one-up each other and laugh at our own incompetance. And that edge of sardonic sneering I think is something that previously, we downplayed. A lot. Because it is a nasty thing to admit about yourself.

Like that playing footsies thing. That would piss me off so much. I'd be furious, and if I caught unefille doing that, I'd probably glare at her and kick her in the shins. But that's the thing. I think she'd probably do it to provoke some kind of response. And it would be this power struggle that goes unseen by the rest of the table. It's this constant needling each other. Bickering, sniping, showing affection with terms such as 'you suck', 'how do you fail at life so much?' and so on. Knowing that I can call her a retard, but I'd fucking kill anyone else who did that.

We're going to post about this later, somewhere else, but I think a lot of our initial mistyping as Deltas boils down to, on my part at least, very much wanting to be Delta and all it stood for. Particularly because we're from Australia, which I think in many ways values the Delta way of life. For not wanting to admit to myself that LSE is in some ways my 'ideal' rather than who I actually am. Appearance versus essense and all that. That I want to be a stable non-fuckup who can have that beautifully placid home life. But the truth underneath it all is that it was part of denying myself what I actually want - that I could somehow escape an intrinsic, but dark part of who I am that I don't want to admit to. And somehow being an LSE would be safer - I look at EIIs and I don't want to hurt them, to screw with their heads. I could love them as they are. But Betas. God. They provoke me so much. Saying I valued Delta values made me feel good about who I was. Valuing Beta values makes me feel alive.

[Park]

We're going to post about this later, somewhere else, but I think a lot of our initial mistyping as Deltas boils down to, on my part at least, very much wanting to be Delta and all it stood for. Particularly because we're from Australia, which I think in many ways values the Delta way of life. For not wanting to admit to myself that LSE is in some ways my 'ideal' rather than who I actually am. Appearance versus essense and all that. That I want to be a stable non-fuckup who can have that beautifully placid home life. But the truth underneath it all is that it was part of denying myself what I actually want - that I could somehow escape an intrinsic, but dark part of who I am that I don't want to admit to. And somehow being an LSE would be safer - I look at EIIs and I don't want to hurt them, to screw with their heads. I could love them as they are. But Betas. God. They provoke me so much. Saying I valued Delta values made me feel good about who I was. Valuing Beta values makes me feel alive.

That's interesting. Never heard something like this before but I think it could makes sense. Well, theoretically it would.

[unefille]

That's consistent with Si DS. And the 2nd sentence with caregivers.

I used to think so too. But I don't want to be taken care of so much as there is someone there to make sure I don't fall over and die, ha. I devalue . I love the idea of food and great meals and relaxing and all these things - but what I love is IDEA of them. I can't simply experience reality, experience sensations - I have to idealise them, to make it bigger, grander and more majestic than it can ever be. things on a daily basis irritate me. Commenting that I look tired, that I look hungry, irritates me. Reminding me that I am neglecting myself irritates me. I need a shove - someone to INSIST that I stop working and go sleep, or to put food in front of me and say EAT - and I'll make a face and finally do it, rather than swatting them off like an annoying fly.

I know achievement is a subjective word, but for me (and I've always hated this), achievement is a sense of real world achievement. To make an impact on the world. So, yes, in some, there is a degree of status-orientation there, I suppose. Of 'formal' as opposed to 'informal' achievement.

Ever since I was young, I've believed in the subjectivity of experience, because I felt I could access another world that was as real to me as this one, possibly even more real. My mother (I now believe she is LSE) used to always be annoyed at the things I would say; the dream worlds I would occupy. To be brutally honest, to be trapped on the Ne/Si axis would be like knowing I had a third eye that could see beyond the tangible reality we're confronted with, and asking me to cut that out. For a long time - for reasons idolatrie touches on above - I tried. Being a 3, whether you think the enneagram is worthwhile or not, is about shame. I have more shame in me than I think I can ever articulate. I believed so hard that I was IEE because I wanted to be IEE, because for some bizarre reason that's just too much to get into here, I though IEE was a better version of myself. But I've tried being more down-to-earth; tried it and found it lacking. Discovering that I'm not IEE, but EIE, has been, if nothing else, relaxing. Things make sense. I make sense.

[idolatrie]

That's consistent with Si DS. And the 2nd sentence with caregivers.

Hmm, now that I think about it, perhaps what I do with unefille isn't so much taking care of her and her utterly deficient Si, but bitch at her for her own failure to do so.

This is directly quoted from messages we exchanged this morning, and also is an exchange we have very frequently, in tone and in subject. Both online, on the phone and in person:

unefille: my headache yesterday (which killed my productivity) was actually due to not eating enough food during the day. mum always asks me: what did you eat today - and i totally blank on her, coz without people...who cares what i ate?

idolatrie: OMG [name removed]. seriously. you need to like put a timer on and when it goes off, you EAT. >.<

Rather than actually getting her stuff, I usually tell her she has to feed herself/drink something/whatever. And it usually works. Her dad gets her stuff though (I think), so I don't know how useful an example this all is.

Is that Si dual seeking/Si creative? I don't know...

[dbmmama]

I used to think so too. But I don't want to be taken care of so much as there is someone there to make sure I don't fall over and die, ha. I devalue . I love the idea of food and great meals and relaxing and all these things - but what I love is IDEA of them. I can't simply experience reality, experience sensations - I have to idealise them, to make it bigger, grander and more majestic than it can ever be. things on a daily basis irritate me. Commenting that I look tired, that I look hungry, irritates me. Reminding me that I am neglecting myself irritates me. I need a shove - someone to INSIST that I stop working and go sleep, or to put food in front of me and say EAT - and I'll make a face and finally do it, rather than swatting them off like an annoying fly.

I know achievement is a subjective word, but for me (and I've always hated this), achievement is a sense of real world achievement. To make an impact on the world. So, yes, in some, there is a degree of status-orientation there, I suppose. Of 'formal' as opposed to 'informal' achievement.

Ever since I was young, I've believed in the subjectivity of experience, because I felt I could access another world that was as real to me as this one, possibly even more real. My mother (I now believe she is LSE) used to always be annoyed at the things I would say; the dream worlds I would occupy. To be brutally honest, to be trapped on the Ne/Si axis would be like knowing I had a third eye that could see beyond the tangible reality we're confronted with, and asking me to cut that out. For a long time - for reasons idolatrie touches on above - I tried. Being a 3, whether you think the enneagram is worthwhile or not, is about shame. I have more shame in me than I think I can ever articulate. I believed so hard that I was IEE because I wanted to be IEE, because for some bizarre reason that's just too much to get into here, I though IEE was a better version of myself. But I've tried being more down-to-earth; tried it and found it lacking. Discovering that I'm not IEE, but EIE, has been, if nothing else, relaxing. Things make sense. I make sense.

you really are my mil, EIE. she was a fighter til the end and she was all about an inner shame as well.

thank you, for me personally, understanding you has helped me understand her better. thank you.

[Ritella]

I wouldn't! If I was beta, I definitely would--IMO, you're all very nice ppl... As I've said to unefille, XNFp is what I know for sure about my type... (It hasn't helped that ppl have been PMing me that I'm INFp, lol.) I seem to be good with both Fe and Fi, and bad with both Te and Ti... Ne and Ni--I can see how both of descriptions would apply... And Se vs. Si--I've been known to like both.

Juju, I really think you should look into ISFP.
Tbh, I remember watching your video when you thought (and everyone else seemed to agree on) ENFP and I was like "huh? this is so unlike ENFPs I know." I just shrugged and thought you were a bit different from any ENFPs I had typed. But then Niffweed made alpha comments in that thread and I immediately remembered the videos and thought "yes, ISFP does seems to fit well."

[Park]

I used to think so too. But I don't want to be taken care of so much as there is someone there to make sure I don't fall over and die, ha. I devalue . I love the idea of food and great meals and relaxing and all these things - but what I love is IDEA of them. I can't simply experience reality, experience sensations - I have to idealise them, to make it bigger, grander and more majestic than it can ever be. things on a daily basis irritate me. Commenting that I look tired, that I look hungry, irritates me. Reminding me that I am neglecting myself irritates me. I need a shove - someone to INSIST that I stop working and go sleep, or to put food in front of me and say EAT - and I'll make a face and finally do it, rather than swatting them off like an annoying fly

That sort of contradicts what you previously said. But that's because you take the same information and try to fit it into a different system(/context) by approaching it from a different perspective. Which is what you can do with pretty much any information.

[unefille]

The more I read about the enneagram, the more full of shit I think it is, lol... That's my type though, 3w4.

JuJu, I'm sure you don't enjoy too much speculation about your type, so I'm very hesitant to do this, but I don't think you're 3w4. You're much too 'unconcerned' and 'unpretentious' in the way you convey yourself.

You probably do have 3 in your triad somewhere (though it might be 3w2); but ultimately I think your dominant E-type falls somewhere along the 6/7 axis (i.e either 7w6 or 6w7 - I'm inclined to go with the latter).

[idolatrie]

I wouldn't! If I was beta, I definitely would--IMO, you're all very nice ppl... As I've said to unefille, XNFp is what I know for sure about my type... (It hasn't helped that ppl have been PMing me that I'm INFp, lol.) I seem to be good with both Fe and Fi, and bad with both Te and Ti... Ne and Ni--I can see how both of descriptions would apply... And Se vs. Si--I've been known to like both.

I swear I'm not trying to influence you either way here or say you did the same things as me at all, but something I picked up from my own adventures in retyping was that the way in which I was conceptualising the functions and how I used them was wrong.

The fact that I now think I'm Ti dominant doesn't mean I'm somehow bad at Te. If being LSI would mean I have to say 'I do not understand Te at all or use it in my life' then I couldn't be LSI. I initially thought that. But it was explained to me that I can 'get' Te and think it is useful and see its crucial role in my life. However, the way I process information, is to slot it into an internalised system of structuring and evaluating data. (The logical function is the one I understand the best, so I'm using that as an example in which I hope I can be coherent.)

So I don't think it's necessarily a matter of working out which function you like best, or seem 'good' or 'bad' at. I don't know. Maybe I'm missing your point and taking crap here, and if so I apologies and mean no offence. But it just reminded me of the approach I used to take, and how that led me to the wrong conclusion (though there was a huge element of self-deception going on there too).

[JuJu]

Juju, I really think you should look into ISFP.
Tbh, I remember watching your video when you thought (and everyone else seemed to agree on) ENFP and I was like "huh? this is so unlike ENFPs I know." I just shrugged and thought you were a bit different from any ENFPs I had typed. But then Niffweed made alpha comments in that thread and I immediately remembered the videos and thought "yes, ISFP does seems to fit well."

Niffweed's comments, despite that they were rendered in derisive manner--I took them seriously and considered them... I don't believe them to be correct for several simple reasons. 1) I just don't produce any Si--AT ALL... (My Mom, ESFj, when she visits me, provides me GREAT HELP in that regard.) 2) the inter-type relations do not add up from that perspective, (nor when I consider ESFj.) In this case, I think that Niffweed might've made an emotional typing during a time when we weren't getting along--it happens.

This said, I appreciate the effort to type me. VERY MUCH.

Also, in my life, I've dated three ISFps--more than any other type--and in those relationships, the differences became pronounced...

To be honest, I kinda wish that I was ISFp--it seems more fun--but I know that I'm not, nor am I ESFj... XNFp--of this I'm sure.

[unefille]

That sort of contradicts what you previously said. But that's because you take the same information and try to fit it into a different system(/context) by approaching it from a different perspective. Which is what you can do with pretty much any information.

I previously said: someone to hand me a shawl and give me tea. I'm now saying: someone to put food in front of me or tell me to go sleep.

I don't think it's contradictory, though I admit I probably wrote a lot of the things in Delta in order to agree more with the general mood. I can probably convince myself of anything - or seem to, anyway. In literary analysis, I am the ultimate unreliable narrator - edited to add: I believe I KNOW myself well, but I do not always 'produce' myself as me - rather, to the extent I can bear it, I produce what I think others want/need me to be.

[unefille]

Niffweed's comments, despite that they were rendered in derisive manner--I took them seriously and considered them... I don't believe them to be correct for several simple reasons. 1) I just don't produce any Si--AT ALL... (My Mom, ESFj, when she visits me, provides me GREAT HELP in that regard.) 2) the inter-type relations do not add up from that perspective, (nor when I consider ESFj.) In this case, I think that Niffweed might've made an emotional typing during a time when we weren't getting along--it happens.

This said, I appreciate the effort to type me. VERY MUCH.

Also, in my life, I've dated three ISFps--more than any other type--and in those relationships, the differences became pronounced...

To be honest, I kinda wish that I was ISFp--it seems more fun--but I know that I'm not, nor am I ESFj... XNFp--of this I'm sure.

I wonder if the other ISFps here would think of themselves as 'producing Si' in the sense that you seem to mean it - perhaps things like keeping things tidy, cooking, cleaning? I think if you spoke to Dolphin (or any of the ISFps) about it, she'd be first to disagree.

[JuJu]

I swear I'm not trying to influence you either way here or say you did the same things as me at all, but something I picked up from my own adventures in retyping was that the way in which I was conceptualising the functions and how I used them was wrong.

The fact that I now think I'm Ti dominant doesn't mean I'm somehow bad at Te. If being LSI would mean I have to say 'I do not understand Te at all or use it in my life' then I couldn't be LSI. I initially thought that. But it was explained to me that I can 'get' Te and think it is useful and see its crucial role in my life. However, the way I process information, is to slot it into an internalised system of structuring and evaluating data. (The logical function is the one I understand the best, so I'm using that as an example in which I hope I can be coherent.)

So I don't think it's necessarily a matter of working out which function you like best, or seem 'good' or 'bad' at. I don't know. Maybe I'm missing your point and taking crap here, and if so I apologies and mean no offence. But it just reminded me of the approach I used to take, and how that led me to the wrong conclusion (though there was a huge element of self-deception going on there too).

I understand what you're saying... To be honest, the processes that you and unefille undertook caused me to re-examine my type--I felt like I could relate to you both very well; also to Ritella, whose type I do not currently know, unfortunately.

I admit, I could be INFp... The written descriptions of both INFp and ENFp make sense to me... The descriptions of ISFp/ESFj do not--and knowing many Alphas, (e.g. my Mom, ESFj, three ex-gfs, ISFps,) I recognize that we're of different quadras.

The more that you write to me about things like this, the more that I will understand them, so if you have time--it'd be awesome... I'm interested in getting to the bottom of my type like you two did--and like unefille said, feeling that relief of knowing for sure.

[dbmmama]

I wonder if the other ISFps here would think of themselves as 'producing Si' in the sense that you seem to mean it - perhaps things like keeping things tidy, cooking, cleaning? I think if you spoke to Dolphin (or any of the ISFps) about it, she'd be first to disagree.

i totally agree.

bg irl, does not produce Si, he IS Si. an Si creative is the one who produces and gives it. the Si base IS it.

[JuJu]

i totally agree.

bg irl, does not produce Si, he IS Si. an Si creative is the one who produces and gives it. the Si base IS it.

yeah, wrong choice of words... sorry... Si--I am not it, (Unless my understanding of Si is WAY off--in which case, I'm interested to hear how it manifests for other Si bases.)

JuJu, I'm sure you don't enjoy too much speculation about your type, so I'm very hesitant to do this, but I don't think you're 3w4. You're much too 'unconcerned' and 'unpretentious' in the way you convey yourself.

You probably do have 3 in your triad somewhere (though it might be 3w2); but ultimately I think your dominant E-type falls somewhere along the 6/7 axis (i.e either 7w6 or 6w7 - I'm inclined to go with the latter).

Believe it or not, I actually am very concerned... I attempt to come off this way, i.e. as 'unpretentious'--and it is about 'shame,' as you said... It's almost a reverse of how a traditional 3w4 would want to present, I recognize--but given my family, my background; honestly, I like appearing this way... My background is preppy New England, and I associate that with conformity... I would rather deal with the ppl who aren't that way (thus 'unpretentious') than those I've dealt with for a lot of my life.

Enneagram 2 makes some sense--6/7=not at all.... 3w4, to be honest... If I told you the story of my life, 3 would become would become clear, I believe--as it did to strrrng... There's also a desire to break with tradition (upbringing)--it's motivated me to do a lot of, uh, different things.

[dbmmama]

yeah, wrong choice of words... sorry... Si--I am not it,

didn't mean you were. just an example....

[idolatrie]

I understand what you're saying... To be honest, the processes that you and unefille undertook caused me to re-examine my type--I felt like I could relate to you both very well; also Ritella, whose type I do not currently know, unfortunately.

I admit, I could be INFp... The written descriptions of both INFp and ENFp make sense to me... The descriptions of ISFp/ESFj do not--and knowing many Alphas, (e.g. my Mom, ESFj, three ex-gfs, ISFps,) I recognize that we're of different quadras.

The more that you write to me about things like this, the more that I will understand them, so if you have time--it'd be awesome... I'm interested in getting to the bottom of my type like you two did--and like unefille said, feeling that relief of knowing for sure.

The written descriptions of LSE still make perfect sense to me. I think there's still a smidge of my self-deception at play here: I would prefer to be LSE. But the LSI descriptions are not necessarily wrong. In fact, there's parts of them that make me uncomfortable. Unefille posted a snippet into our chat last night, and I actually closed the window because I read it and didn't want to admit to it. Do you have any sense of INFp containing uncomfortable truths about your identity? The LSE description makes me go 'yes, indeed, of course, uhuh', but the LSI description makes me go 'aaarghghg ok ok, fine, it's true'.

What makes your heart beat faster? What are your guilty pleasures? What do you adore beyond all words? So much that it almost hurts to admit it? Don't answer here, don't think about what you 'should' want. But what is. These things fell into place for me after I retyped as LSI - what I wrote to you about no longer feeling guilty for my literary and music tastes! I don't know if these questions would help you, but they made things 'click' for me eventually.

I recently had a discussion with a Si valuing friend about clothing. He described the actual experience of wearing the clothes: the fit and how he internally experienced that. I focused on what image the clothes project and how that image affects me: wearing 'professional' clothes at work because it projects an image of who I want to be in that context, which in turn feeds how I feel internally. This doesn't mean I don't 'know' textures and the sensual experience of fabric. But what I privilege is what the overall 'look' is. Si is still important - when I'm cold, I know I'm cold and I will put on layer after layer to ward off the chill, not caring what I look like. But in that decision I'm choosing to not care, in order to fulfil another need. I'm not 'bad' at Si, I don't think, but it's something I access rather than being my mode of access.

For me, my eureka moment was going 'oh god, this is who I am', not what I think I should be. Not what my social construction tells me I should be. Not what all the other parts of my identity point me to being. It's a more uncomfortable fit: it makes me squirm and feel naked, exposed. But it's a truer fit.

I don't know...is this useful? I'm no expert at typing, I can really only explain my own process here. But I want to help you, JuJu, because the sense of relief of realising is immense.

ETA: Ritella is EII.

[FDG]

I used to think so too. But I don't want to be taken care of so much as there is someone there to make sure I don't fall over and die, ha. I devalue . I love the idea of food and great meals and relaxing and all these things - but what I love is IDEA of them. I can't simply experience reality, experience sensations - I have to idealise them, to make it bigger, grander and more majestic than it can ever be. things on a daily basis irritate me. Commenting that I look tired, that I look hungry, irritates me. Reminding me that I am neglecting myself irritates me. I need a shove - someone to INSIST that I stop working and go sleep, or to put food in front of me and say EAT - and I'll make a face and finally do it, rather than swatting them off like an annoying fly.

I know achievement is a subjective word, but for me (and I've always hated this), achievement is a sense of real world achievement. To make an impact on the world. So, yes, in some, there is a degree of status-orientation there, I suppose. Of 'formal' as opposed to 'informal' achievement.

Ever since I was young, I've believed in the subjectivity of experience, because I felt I could access another world that was as real to me as this one, possibly even more real. My mother (I now believe she is LSE) used to always be annoyed at the things I would say; the dream worlds I would occupy. To be brutally honest, to be trapped on the Ne/Si axis would be like knowing I had a third eye that could see beyond the tangible reality we're confronted with, and asking me to cut that out. For a long time - for reasons idolatrie touches on above - I tried. Being a 3, whether you think the enneagram is worthwhile or not, is about shame. I have more shame in me than I think I can ever articulate. I believed so hard that I was IEE because I wanted to be IEE, because for some bizarre reason that's just too much to get into here, I though IEE was a better version of myself. But I've tried being more down-to-earth; tried it and found it lacking. Discovering that I'm not IEE, but EIE, has been, if nothing else, relaxing. Things make sense. I make sense.

wow uhm...people are...complicated

[hellothere]

I recently had a discussion with a Si valuing friend about clothing. He described the actual experience of wearing the clothes: the fit and how he internally experienced that. I focused on what image the clothes project and how that image affects me: wearing 'professional' clothes at work because it projects an image of who I want to be in that context, which in turn feeds how I feel internally. This doesn't mean I don't 'know' textures and the sensual experience of fabric. But what I privilege is what the overall 'look' is. Si is still important - when I'm cold, I know I'm cold and I will put on layer after layer to ward off the chill, not caring what I look like. But in that decision I'm choosing to not care, in order to fulfil another need. I'm not 'bad' at Si, I don't think, but it's something I access rather than being my mode of access.

Your id functions are considered "strong" in the socionics sense, so are you using "bad" in a different sense?

[unefille]

wow uhm...people are...complicated

Haha, unfortunately yes.

Well, I percieve life in a way that may seem to be complicated - but it's pretty straightforward to me. Well, not straightforward. I just don't know anything but being complicated, I guess.

[idolatrie]

Yay, another LSI female on here....and my dual....welcome girls!

Again, massively late, but this is (partly) my thread, so I'll do what I want!

Thank you, shakealittle, look forward to talking to you in the future!

[JuJu]

The written descriptions of LSE still make perfect sense to me. I think there's still a smidge of my self-deception at play here: I would prefer to be LSE. But the LSI descriptions are not necessarily wrong. In fact, there's parts of them that make me uncomfortable. Unefille posted a snippet into our chat last night, and I actually closed the window because I read it and didn't want to admit to it. Do you have any sense of INFp containing uncomfortable truths about your identity? The LSE description makes me go 'yes, indeed, of course, uhuh', but the LSI description makes me go 'aaarghghg ok ok, fine, it's true'.

What makes your heart beat faster? What are your guilty pleasures? What do you adore beyond all words? So much that it almost hurts to admit it? Don't answer here, don't think about what you 'should' want. But what is. These things fell into place for me after I retyped as LSI - what I wrote to you about no longer feeling guilty for my literary and music tastes! I don't know if these questions would help you, but they made things 'click' for me eventually.

I recently had a discussion with a Si valuing friend about clothing. He described the actual experience of wearing the clothes: the fit and how he internally experienced that. I focused on what image the clothes project and how that image affects me: wearing 'professional' clothes at work because it projects an image of who I want to be in that context, which in turn feeds how I feel internally. This doesn't mean I don't 'know' textures and the sensual experience of fabric. But what I privilege is what the overall 'look' is. Si is still important - when I'm cold, I know I'm cold and I will put on layer after layer to ward off the chill, not caring what I look like. But in that decision I'm choosing to not care, in order to fulfil another need. I'm not 'bad' at Si, I don't think, but it's something I access rather than being my mode of access.

For me, my eureka moment was going 'oh god, this is who I am', not what I think I should be. Not what my social construction tells me I should be. Not what all the other parts of my identity point me to being. It's a more uncomfortable fit: it makes me squirm and feel naked, exposed. But it's a truer fit.

I don't know...is this useful? I'm no expert at typing, I can really only explain my own process here. But I want to help you, JuJu, because the sense of relief of realising is immense.

ETA: Ritella is EII.

This is an excellent post--and very useful--thank you, idolatrie. I appreciate your help (and unefille's and everyone's,) as I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this and experience that same 'ah hah' moment.

I'll be honest with you, the INFp descriptions make me squirm more... (To me, it seems as though they're written by a more critical audience, lol.)

From the INFp wiki, I recognize in myself, (I'm sorry for the lack of structure

the 'gentle' demeanor; knowing who has been offended; having extremely picky tastes, and relying on 'old standbys' if they're available (esp. re: food--my diet is very basic and redundant tend to be unaware of sensations occurring in my body; taking care of financial stuff/book-keeping/detailed work--to be honest, usually when I receive stuff like this in the mail, I just throw it out without opening it--to my ESFj Mom's horror; generally I don't pay bills until some utility is turned off, lol (I wish I was exaggerating I HATE a daily routine--I find it very difficult to keep up w/ one, and uninteresting at that; I've been told many times that I don't give enough attention to "the practical side of life," and I agree; I am drawn to ppl who exude 'presence'--those ppl have always been my friends, (throughout my life, most of my close friends have been beta--that said, I haven't felt deep bonds with many of them about 50&#37; of the time, I rely on someone's strong desire to do a certain activity, (I suggest activities too veryoften need an outside reference to keep me on the same page with whatever task I'm doing, (e.g. writing screenplays, generally, I structured them like such-and-such novels.)

Anything here stand out to anyone?

[idolatrie]

Your id functions are considered "strong" in the socionics sense, so are you using "bad" in a different sense?

Hmm, yes. I'm trying to say that I used to go 'I'm good at Te and Si, I understand them, and I know I use these functions' as part of my justification for being LSE. The fact that I now think I'm LSI doesn't in any way mean my self-knowledge has changed. I still think I understand Te and Si, and use those functions (as you said, id functions are strong), but I had a paradigm shift about how and in what context I use them. So the way I used to think I was Te>Ti so firmly was in fact an expression of Ti dominance in and of itself. I had to look at it on a differen level - not the expression of the functions and their role in my life, but rather how I drew on them. So trying to differentiate between being 'better' at Te or Ti was essentially not helpful in my search for my type.

Sorry for the confusion. Is that better?

[hellothere]

yep (:

[crazedrat]

Delta is far less personally intrusive... less annoying. Generally they're hippies inside. So they win.
Also, the Betas I live with are obsessed with food, and if you eat any of "their claimed food" they will actually try and persecute you for it. ..they won't drop it for days. This alone is enough for me to put their whole quadra on the shit list.

[Christy B]

Delta is far less personally intrusive... less annoying. Generally they're hippies inside. So they win.
Also, the Betas I live with are obsessed with food, and if you eat any of "their claimed food" they will actually try and persecute you for it. ..they won't drop it for days. This alone is enough for me to put their whole quadra on the shit list.

Hey! Why you eating other people's food? You must be SLI.

[Lotus]

Hey! Why you eating other people's food? You must be SLI.

SLIs steal food. Fact.

[Gilly]

*waves at Gilly*

Hi, she's already got an EIE dude. You need her more than she needs you, admit it!

*raises an eyebrow* oh please, EIEs are a dime a dozen. who ever talked about crawling? but that's what you're thinking of, isn't it? me on all fours, looking up at you. you're thinking you're in control, that you're calling the shots, but really, we know who's got the power here.

...sh1t

[crazedrat]

Hmm, yes. I'm trying to say that I used to go 'I'm good at Te and Si, I understand them, and I know I use these functions' as part of my justification for being LSE. The fact that I now think I'm LSI doesn't in any way mean my self-knowledge has changed. I still think I understand Te and Si, and use those functions (as you said, id functions are strong), but I had a paradigm shift about how and in what context I use them. So the way I used to think I was Te>Ti so firmly was in fact an expression of Ti dominance in and of itself. I had to look at it on a differen level - not the expression of the functions and their role in my life, but rather how I drew on them. So trying to differentiate between being 'better' at Te or Ti was essentially not helpful in my search for my type.

Sorry for the confusion. Is that better?

this is the distinction so many people on this forum can't grasp