View Poll Results: What Quadra are we?

Voters
21. You may not vote on this poll
  • Beta!

    10 47.62%
  • Delta!

    9 42.86%
  • Neither!

    0 0%
  • I have no opinion.

    2 9.52%
Results 1 to 40 of 189

Thread: Beta Zoids or Delta Droids?!

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    unefille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    841
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Beta Zoids or Delta Droids?!

    Warning: LONG POST.

    About me:

    1. Three female fictional characters I have always identified with strongly are Teresa from Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being and Anna from Tolstoy's Anna Karenina and Jane from Bronte's Jane Eyre. All three were pivotal books for me. Nevertheless, this identification is not complete. Both characters resonate deeply with me, but what is ultimately lacking is that I cannot always identify with the decisions they make. Anna for instance, to me, could not expect forgiveness, for she acted against her better judgement and on a whim. That doesn't mean I believe she should be punished or condemned, but there had to be consequences for her action, because she knew she would hurt numerous people and yet did it anyway.

    2. I have a strong sense of appropriateness, but one which I think is borne out of consideration for other people and not because I have been taught 'thou shalt behave this way'. I've always been sensitive to the way people express themselves; the way the same sentiment can be harmless or destructive, depending on the way in which it is expressed. I take a great deal of care not to hurt other people and to express myself as diplomatically as possible.

    3. As I expressed in another thread, the three qualities I like most about myself are optimism, adaptability and my communication skills. The qualities I don't always like about myself are that I can often come off as aloof, that I often hold myself back from acting on my impulses and then regret the missed opportunities, that even though I seek to not hurt people through my behaviour, often I hurt them inadvertently because I am not as emotionally invested in them as they are in me. I cannot 'fake' that; I can only be sorry for my inability to reciprocate.

    4. Although idolatrie and I were convinced of my 'irrationality', I am actually quite a controlled personality. I can be spontaneous, unpredictable and do and say shockingly unexpected things, but I am very rarely impulsive. Most of my actions are planned in some way. When I withdraw into myself if I feel I'm being 'attacked' in some way, I am not shutting down to protect myself, but rather pulling back so as to assess my options for action. Unless my head is clear, I will usually not act because I am too aware of the possibility of bad and regrettable outcomes. This awareness of possible consequences holds me back from doing a lot of things that I might want to do, such as insult people, approach people I find interesting or throw things and misbehave generally.

    5. My favourite theorist is Michel Foucault, whose methodology and philosophy has deeply influenced my own approach to analysing political problems. I think I have a strong identification with Foucault - all my lecturers have commented my uncanny knack for understanding and being able to explain Foucault's theorising, especially as a lot of my peers have often found him influential but alien and difficult to access.

    6. Idolatrie and I have, since high school, had long lively discussions about power. POWER and its theorisation and manifestations is something which has long fascinated us. Even my current areas of study reflect that. It's less of an obsession with having power, but more of a concern with the existence and permeation of power, which colours the relations between people, institutions and nations.

    7. I hate being told what to do by someone who makes it seem that is my only option and I have no choice in it. It frustrates me. Even if I have already decided on that course of action, I will deliberately rebel or sulk and hold off from doing it, simply because it thoroughly irritates me. I often know I am not acting rationally then, but something in me just simply RESISTS. And I have to let that feeling subside first, before acting.

    8. I always say I want to 'fly free'. What I really mean is that I want 'wide horizons'. I don't want to be limited in any sense, I want to feel as though the breadth of the world is open to me. The distinction I make with flying free is that I need an ultimate destination, somewhere I am going, or somewhere I can return. I say 'oh, let's just wander, why plan everything?' but I only mean 'let's wander for NOW', knowing in my head exactly where we're going to be once that wandering if over.

    9. I have a tendency to 'take over' when I think someone is doing something badly or incompetently. I try to explain what's going wrong, but because I don't want to insult them too much, if they don't really understand immediately, I will 'teach by showing'. In that sense, I can be quite controlling, I suppose, though I've never thought of it that way. I have very high standards and people always call me a perfectionist. Whenever I join a student organisation, the first thing I need to know is what our 'purpose' is to really contribute. What are we trying to achieve/do?

    My Relationship with Idolatrie:

    We've been best friends since we were 14 (so 7 years now, I guess). We originally thought our relationship was activity, but it might be duality. I don't know. I tell her everything. I share every aspect of my life with her. No one knows me like she does. She's the only person I really show all vulnerabilities to - no other relationship has yet reached that point, unfortunately. In senior year of high school, I was really emotionally messed up inside and I feel that our friendship was the only thing that got me through it. Whenever I'm stressed or in a panic or about to breakdown, she's the first person I turn to. What I like about her is her firmness, her concreteness. She very much keeps me grounded. I tell her how things are going to happen; she makes them happen. I often say 'we should do this' but then I hesitate - she will promptly act and I can follow her into action, relieved.


    Relevant Links:
    Questions about EIE/Fe-Leading: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=20976
    Hating the Enneagram 3: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=20847
    Last edited by unefille; 08-28-2008 at 05:27 AM.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

  2. #2
    idolatrie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    413
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The only reason I am putting my type up for consideration in this sub-forum is because unefille is questioning her type, and the possibility of us being from opposing quadra is really mind-boggling. So I would like to start with the caveat that I am not necessarily ready to accept whaever conclusions are reached here about my type. I don't mean to be difficult or obstructive by that, but my type is necessarily a personal thing, and it is confronting to be told that the type which makes the most sense to you subjectively is somehow wrong. However, I would be needlessly constraining unefille's exploration of possible types by not at least considering that I'm one of the Beta ST types.

    Reasons Why I Believe I'm LSE
    1) The LSE descriptions have always made the most sense and just rung true completely for me. Particularly Filatova's LSE description on the wiki, the Beskova female LSE description, and even the main LSE page.

    2) I believe I have Te rather than Ti in my ego block. This is my take on the two functions, as posted in another thread:
    In terms of the functions, however, I think my biggest sticking point is Te/Ti. My understanding of Ti is that it is like a model, a closed logic system. Following the rules laid down, if A then B. It implies that there is a single correct approach to follow, that there is the possibility of right and wrong in an objective sense. Sort of like mathematical reasoning: rules deduced from a set of governing axioms. That there is nothing outside the system. Best practice as opposed to best fit.

    My understanding of Te is that it is more about locally contingent information gathered to create the most holistic basis of knowledge. You look at how things work, and derive your understanding of that in a way that is particular to that phenomenon. That reasoning cannot necessarily be generalised from the individual to the aggregate. So you judge things on their particular effectiveness - does it work? There is no objective set of rules that can be applied from above.

    I reject the possibility of universal, objective values/standards. I think everything has to be evaluated on its own utility value. And that my reasoning cannot necessarily be imposed upon another, because our perception of phenomenon are not objective but rather always subjective and value-laden. But my own knowledge, I am certain of. I do not believe someone can tell me what to think because I can do that for myself. I may be presented with another way of reasoning, and I'll evaluate it, and if I find it relevant or effective, then I'll adopt it - either integrating it with my exisitng approach or if it is incommensurable, I'll determine which is more appropriate according to its ability to accurately reflect the reality of the situation.
    I accept that in reality one has to generalise rules in order to have some guiding principles, if not you'd have anarchy.

    3) Looking at the dichotemies, extrovert fits better than introvert, pretty much on a point-by-point basis. And rational over irrational, definitely. As in, 7-0 in favour of rational based on the characteristics on the wiki, and similar skewing on Rick's rationality/irrationality page.

    So taking it holistically, LSE just seemed like the best fit.

    Rather than trying to preemptively lay out more information, I'm leaving it short and sweet. I'd really prefer to answer questions than ramble on initially.

    Niffweed made a strong case for me being LSI. I don't expect him to go to the bother of rewriting it here though. Suffice to say it is one of the other main reasons why I'm considering LSI. My objections, as listed above, still stand, but I could see his reasoning.
    allez cuisine!

  3. #3
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    966
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The two of you (unefille & idolatrie) sound like duals with all this "we" stuff all over the place.

    Perhaps you're an LSE-EII pair...
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  4. #4
    unefille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    841
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    The two of you (unefille & idolatrie) sound like duals with all this "we" stuff all over the place.

    Perhaps you're an LSE-EII pair...
    LoL, I'm pretty sure Idolatrie would reject the idea of me being EII pretty strongly, even if I were her dual. In fact, we thought about it and it made her laugh. A lot.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

  5. #5
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    966
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    LoL, I'm pretty sure Idolatrie would reject the idea of me being EII pretty strongly, even if I were her dual. In fact, we thought about it and it made her laugh. A lot.
    Would you mind explaining why? Or point me where you have elaborated regarding this elsewhere on the forum?

    I don't think your forum behavior or the details you've laid out contradict the concept so obviously that it's a ridiculous notion out-of-hand. Either way, you two seem to have the kind of eerie closeness that people here speak in hushed tones regarding duality.

    (Personally, duality sounds too completely merged for my comfort).
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  6. #6
    unefille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    841
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Would you mind explaining why? Or point me where you have elaborated regarding this elsewhere on the forum?

    I don't think your forum behavior or the details you've laid out contradict the concept so obviously that it's a ridiculous notion out-of-hand. Either way, you two seem to have the kind of eerie closeness that people here speak in hushed tones regarding duality.

    (Personally, duality sounds too completely merged for my comfort).
    She basically thinks I'm too irrational and that someone like me would torment her. She wants stability - I think she's BORING and that I make life more interesting for us - by doing things like dragging us into socionics, or getting us into trouble. Ha!

    Also, if this is duality, then I can assure you - duality isn't perfect. We have similar backgrounds and interests. We never fight, never misunderstand each other, never get angry at each other. But it's really really not the land of milk and honey either. It's why I'd almost prefer to believe that's it's activity relations instead - because then duality would be better than this!
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

  7. #7
    idolatrie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    413
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    The two of you (unefille & idolatrie) sound like duals with all this "we" stuff all over the place.

    Perhaps you're an LSE-EII pair...
    I think it is more indicative of our long history of co-dependence. That, or delusions of grandeur leading to use of the royal plural.

    Actually, to explain seriously, we discuss things constantly, so by the time anything reaches any public venue, we've already come to a consensus position and I actually feel comfortable expressing our thoughts since I know what she's thinking.

    I would be very surprised if unefille is a rational type. Whilst she is my best friend, and I could not in my wildest imagination come up with the model of a better friend to me, having to make life decisions with her would drive me batshit insane.
    allez cuisine!

  8. #8
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    I would be very surprised if unefille is a rational type. Whilst she is my best friend, and I could not in my wildest imagination come up with the model of a better friend to me, having to make life decisions with her would drive me batshit insane.
    If she is EIE, that illustrates the problem of going for descriptions of rational vs irrational as far as their behavior is concerned; their dynamic can appear as irrationality to others.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  9. #9
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,685
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    1. Three female fictional characters I have always identified with strongly are Teresa from Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being and Anna from Tolstoy's Anna Karenina and Jane from Bronte's Jane Eyre. All three were pivotal books for me. Nevertheless, this identification is not complete. Both characters resonate deeply with me, but what is ultimately lacking is that I cannot always identify with the decisions they make. Anna for instance, to me, could not expect forgiveness, for she acted against her better judgement and on a whim. That doesn't mean I believe she should be punished or condemned, but there had to be consequences for her action, because she knew she would hurt numerous people and yet did it anyway.
    Sounds like valuing Se/Ni to me.

    2. I have a strong sense of appropriateness, but one which I think is borne out of consideration for other people and not because I have been taught 'thou shalt behave this way'. I've always been sensitive to the way people express themselves; the way the same sentiment can be harmless or destructive, depending on the way in which it is expressed. I take a great deal of care not to hurt other people and to express myself as diplomatically as possible.
    I definitely identify here.

    Quote Originally Posted by socioniko.net EIE description
    4. Good vs. evil. He never does things he considers as evil, and is very intolerable to evil in others. However, his ethical theory is based on his own principles, without consideration for customs and authority. Sometimes his views on problems of good and evil are very original. In any case he consequently acts on them and insistently defends them.


    3. As I expressed in another thread, the three qualities I like most about myself are optimism, adaptability and my communication skills.
    I think these can be "chalked up" to Fe pretty easily, although obviously they aren't solely related to it.

    The qualities I don't always like about myself are that I can often come off as aloof
    I don't think it is uncommon at all for EIEs to come off as aloof; in fact I think it is rather common.

    that even though I seek to not hurt people through my behaviour, often I hurt them inadvertently because I am not as emotionally invested in them as they are in me. I cannot 'fake' that; I can only be sorry for my inability to reciprocate.
    Devalued Fi, I think; most likely 4th or 7th function. Again, I thoroughly relate.

    4. Although idolatrie and I were convinced of my 'irrationality', I am actually quite a controlled personality. I can be spontaneous, unpredictable and do and say shockingly unexpected things, but I am very rarely impulsive. Most of my actions are planned in some way. When I withdraw into myself if I feel I'm being 'attacked' in some way, I am not shutting down to protect myself, but rather pulling back so as to assess my options for action. Unless my head is clear, I will usually not act because I am too away of the possibility of bad and regrettable outcomes. This awareness of possible consequences holds me back from doing a lot of things that I might want to do, such as insult people, approach people I find interesting or throw things and misbehave generally.
    This reeks of Ni.

    5. My favourite theorist is Michel Foucault, whose methodology and philosophy has deeply influenced my own approach to analysing political problems. I think I have a strong identification with Foucault - all my lecturers have commented my uncanny knack for understanding and being able to explain Foucault's theorising, especially as a lot of my peers have often found him influential but alien and difficult to access.
    I don't know much about Foucault, but it is very common for Betas to be attracted to esoteric bodies of knowledge/areas of study.

    6. Idolatrie and I have, since high school, had long lively discussions about power. POWER and its theorisation and manifestations is something which has long fascinated us. Even my current areas of study reflect that. It's less of an obsession with having power, but more of a concern with the existence and permeation of power, which colours the relations between people, institutions and nations.
    Se ftw. An important thing to note about "valuing" a function that is often a topic of confusion is that it does not so much imply that, for example, an Se valuing type would necessarily WANT power (although it is common), but moreso that they have a particular focus on power, or a marked position on it. For example, I have an EIE friend from college who was vehemently opposed to the idea of any power structure or authority, from government down to social hierarchy, on both a philosophical and sociological basis. The important thing is not necessarily a desire or psychological need, but rather a focus.


    7. I hate being told what to do by someone who makes it seem that is my only option and I have no choice in it. It frustrates me. Even if I have already decided on that course of action, I will deliberately rebel or sulk and hold off from doing it, simply because it thoroughly irritates me. I often know I am not acting rationally then, but something in me just simply RESISTS. And I have to let that feeling subside first, before acting.
    I don't know how I would attribute this functionally, but I relate entirely.

    8. I always say I want to 'fly free'. What I really mean is that I want 'wide horizons'. I don't want to be limited in any sense, I want to feel as though the breadth of the world is open to me. The distinction I make with flying free is that I need an ultimate destination, somewhere I am going, or somewhere I can return. I say 'oh, let's just wander, why plan everything?' but I only mean 'let's wander for NOW', knowing in my head exactly where we're going to be once that wandering if over.
    I think this sounds like Ni valuing, and weak Ti.

    9. I have a tendency to 'take over' when I think someone is doing something badly or incompetently. I try to explain what's going wrong, but because I don't want to insult them too much, if they don't really understand immediately, I will 'teach by showing'. In that sense, I can be quite controlling, I suppose, though I've never thought of it that way. I have very high standards and people always call me a perfectionist. Whenever I join a student organisation, the first thing I need to know is what our 'purpose' is to really contribute. What are we trying to achieve/do?
    Se/Ni values IMO.

    What I like about her is her firmness, her concreteness. She very much keeps me grounded. I tell her how things are going to happen; she makes them happen. I often say 'we should do this' but then I hesitate - she will promptly act and I can follow her into action, relieved.
    Sounds like Se+Ti valuing to me.

    When we were graduating high school, I was still emotionally unstable, though I doubt anyone could really tell. To most people, I suspect I seemed perfectly Ok.
    Lol, my senior year of high school/sophomore year of college. I was a total wreck inside, but even when I went back and asked people about it, they told me that I hardly let on at all, that I seemed like the same old George for the most part.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Delta is far less personally intrusive... less annoying. Generally they're hippies inside. So they win.
    Also, the Betas I live with are obsessed with food, and if you eat any of "their claimed food" they will actually try and persecute you for it. ..they won't drop it for days. This alone is enough for me to put their whole quadra on the shit list.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Delta is far less personally intrusive... less annoying. Generally they're hippies inside. So they win.
    Also, the Betas I live with are obsessed with food, and if you eat any of "their claimed food" they will actually try and persecute you for it. ..they won't drop it for days. This alone is enough for me to put their whole quadra on the shit list.
    Hey! Why you eating other people's food? You must be SLI.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  12. #12
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,492
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    Hey! Why you eating other people's food? You must be SLI.
    SLIs steal food. Fact.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •