polr VERSUS dual seeking function

[niveK]

But the fact that the dual seeking function is unconcious makes it weaker than the polr because the polr is conscious

So, what makes a function weak or strong?

[Megan]

I dunno, I've got pretty strong : I play two sports, and I've been told I'm well-dressed more than once.

I play four sports, but I have PoLR.

Guess what?



However, I agree with the general stance of the topic. Something I would like to add is that I think that I notice when people lack my Dual-Seeking function, an this disgusts me - somewhat unconsciously, though.

being good at sports is more about than

is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.
is also called Comfort Sensing, or Space-settling Sensing.

[Creepy-]

Please note that I am distinguishing between painful function and weakest function and am claiming that the dual seeking function although not the most painful function, is still the weakest function, moreso than the polr function.

Ja, I'm not stupid. So much for sharing my perspective.

[Angel von Himmel]

Please note that I am distinguishing between painful function and weakest function and am claiming that the dual seeking function although not the most painful function, is still the weakest function, moreso than the polr function.

Ja, I'm not stupid. So much for sharing my perspective.

Hugo, I disagree with you ... But I do think that the dual-seeking function would show itself as weak before the PoLR function would. I do not really see that as a case to say that the suggestive function is weaker, though.

[Creepy-]

Please note that I am distinguishing between painful function and weakest function and am claiming that the dual seeking function although not the most painful function, is still the weakest function, moreso than the polr function.

Ja, I'm not stupid. So much for sharing my perspective.

Hugo, I disagree with you ... But I do think that the dual-seeking function would show itself as weak before the PoLR function would. I do not really see that as a case to say that the suggestive function is weaker, though.

I think the only way to "prove" either one is weaker would be to objectively quantify it, which isn't actually possible...

And from what I understand, whether or not you have a "lot" of your PoLR function, your PoLR is still the weakest part of your psyche.

[Hugo]

If you are aware of your polr more than your dual seeking function then that leads me to believe that the dual seeking function is weaker. In additon if you are intj, you don't depend on people to have strong , but rather depend on people to have strong . This is another reason why I believe that your dual seeking function is weaker than polr.

[niveK]

Anyone want to define what makes a function weak or strong?

[UDP]

I believe I make functions weak or strong.

That, or Chuck Norris. But I don't know about him....

[Creepy-]

Anyone want to define what makes a function weak or strong?

I'll have a stab, and hopefully be somewhat comprehensive.

1) A "stronger" function is quantitatively or physically larger than a "weaker" function.

2) "Stronger" functions are able to be used more effectively than "weaker" functions.

3) "Stronger" functions are used with more confidence than "weaker" functions. (This could also auggest something about sensitivity to criticism).

#1 is impossible to determine.

Any, according to Hugo's logic, would he consider the PoLR to be stronger not only than the suggestive functions but all of the sub-conscious functions?

[Creepy-]

Polr is your hidden agenda.

Yeah, and conflicting relationships are great!

[FDG]

Hugo, it seems to me that you're trying to climb mirrors against all the evidence.

[Hugo]

According to Hugo's logic, would he consider the PoLR to be stronger not only than the suggestive functions but all of the sub-conscious functions?

Actually, I think Model A got it wrong, because the so called "hidden agenda" function is actually a consious function rather than an unconcious. Example: INTj's hidden agenda function is to do with health and all intj's know they seek to be healthy - it's consious not unconscious. I think the role function is unconsious though.

[Hugo]

Polr is your hidden agenda.

Yeah, and conflicting relationships are great!

I'm not talking about relationships. If you read the whole thread your questions will be answered.

[Angel von Himmel]

According to Hugo's logic, would he consider the PoLR to be stronger not only than the suggestive functions but all of the sub-conscious functions?

Actually, I think Model A got it wrong, because the so called "hidden agenda" function is actually a consious function rather than an unconcious. Example: INTj's hidden agenda function is to do with health and all intj's know they seek to be healthy - it's consious not unconscious. I think the role function is unconsious though.

Hugo, this statement above gives me the impression that you are not really familiar with what an unconscious function actually does. It is not that a person does not have some idea as to what they are doing, it is that other people see certain actions and things diffrently than the person does and he or she does not readily noticed. Like literally thinking you are acting intelligent and really coming off like a total idiot, that sort of thing.

[Hugo]

It is not that a person does not have some idea as to what they are doing, it is that other people see certain actions and things diffrently than the person does and he or she does not readily noticed. Like literally thinking you are acting intelligent and really coming off like a total idiot, that sort of thing.

I thought that it's about self-perception, not about what others percieve about you. I'm not sure what you are saying is correct.

[Hugo]

Hugo, it seems to me that you're trying to climb mirrors against all the evidence.

I haven't seen much evidence for anything socionists say.

[Angel von Himmel]

It is not that a person does not have some idea as to what they are doing, it is that other people see certain actions and things diffrently than the person does and he or she does not readily noticed. Like literally thinking you are acting intelligent and really coming off like a total idiot, that sort of thing.

I thought that it's about self-perception, not about what others percieve about you. I'm not sure what you are saying is correct.

It is about self-perception, but when an unconscious function comes into play a person might believe that he or she is behaving a certain way, but others see diffrently. That is essentially what is ment by an unconscious function.

[Hugo]

It is about self-perception, but when an unconscious function comes into play a person might believe that he or she is behaving a certain way, but others see diffrently. That is essentially what is ment by an unconscious function.

Let me give an example of my hidden agenda. I'm INTj and my hidden agenda is . I know I worry about my health too much and so do others, perhaps calling m hypercondriac. I believe that the hidden agenda function is consious. I think the role function is unconscious. I think this is true for me. My role function is and I am much less consious of it than .

[Creepy-]

Hang on a second, I just realised - aren't the functions subconscious not unconscious? I'm not trying to be picky, just making sure we all speak the same language.

sub·con·scious

adj.
Not wholly conscious; partially or imperfectly conscious: subconscious perceptions.

n.
The part of the mind below the level of conscious perception. Often used with the.

sub·conscious·ly adv.
sub·conscious·ness n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

un·con·scious

adj.
1. Lacking awareness and the capacity for sensory perception; not conscious.
2. Temporarily lacking consciousness.
3. Occurring in the absence of conscious awareness or thought: unconscious resentment; unconscious fears.
4. Without conscious control; involuntary or unintended: an unconscious mannerism.

n.
The division of the mind in psychoanalytic theory containing elements of psychic makeup, such as memories or repressed desires, that are not subject to conscious perception or control but that often affect conscious thoughts and behavior.

un·conscious·ly adv.
un·conscious·ness n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

There is a noteable difference.

I don't think any function completely lacks awareness, just degrees of partial/imperfect awareness as rmcnew suggested:

...when an unconscious function comes into play a person might believe that he or she is behaving a certain way, but others see diffrently.

[Angel von Himmel]

Whoops, yeah ... I ment subconscious and not unconscious ...

[Creepy-]

Whoops, yeah ... I ment subconscious and not unconscious ...

That's what I thought but it always helps to clarify things. So much time is saved when everybody is on the same page. Now if only I could od this kind of thing IRL.....

[Angel von Himmel]

And Hugo, I think you are reading into things a little too much ...