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Thread: Questions for EIEs-ENFjs about leading Fe function

  1. #81
    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    speak for yourself ILE.

    I do like rules and planning and all that. Structure is cool and I love organizing my stuff and making my own systems and structure. I put tiny colorful post-it notes in books and I neatly label my boxes and catalogues... I will go the extra mile to ensure that things are easier in the future. I suck at maintenence though (e.g. paying bills every month on the same date till I die. I wish I could just set up a system for that.) I like people who have lots of rules and I love to be in organized environment. But only because I know the rules don't apply to me and I do break them pretty often and I kinda expect people to forgive me for that. I openly show respect for these rules, but I often forget to follow them.
    Wow, if that's Ti valuing (especially the bolded the bit) then I'm REALLY going to have to rethink things because um, coloured tags and index systems is a way of life for idolatrie and I. More her, though.
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Wow, if that's Ti valuing (especially the bolded the bit) then I'm REALLY going to have to rethink things because um, coloured tags and index systems is a way of life for idolatrie and I. More her, though.




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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Holy shit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  4. #84
    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Oh, and don't be fooled by all this talk of rowdiness and personal jests, etc; this is a "stereotype," a common manifestation of group behavior. I myself am not a fan of big, rowdy parties and crap like that; I was for a very short period of my life, but I got over it pretty quickly. As far as social life goes, I like having friends in a lot of places, giving me the opportunity to socialize with whomever I like, but I am prone to developing strong bonds with a tightly-knit group, sometimes of no more than 2 or 3 people, whenever I settle down in a place for an extended period of time. I like socializing in a more intimate atmosphere where people can share their life experiences and their views, how they see things. I enjoy lengthy conversations about life visions, worldviews, plans to make something happen, artistic endeavors, adventures, spiritual experiences, defining moments in life, things that are "sacred," and the like.

    I get absolutely nothing from superficial conversations in which people simply "update" each other about their pointless day-to-day goings on in life: "So Shirley threw a fit at me and Bob yesterday...Did you see Jim's new rims on his car?...I had cramps when I got out of bed today...Sometimes I wish Shirley wasn't such an angry bitch..." I think these kinds of things can be appreciated deeply by the individuals who experience them (for serious; sometimes I get more out of standing up and looking out my window than a long philosophical rant with a buddy), and I love talking to people about their personal lives if they need an ear or someone to give them advice, but just listening to people important-ify the stupid shit that happens on a daily basis, to me, seems ridiculous. This is what made me so tired of big parties: I got sick of having to come up with stupid, pointless shit to talk about with people who I had already shared most of my interesting stories with, who didn't have any interesting stories or thought they were too "personal" to tell me, with whom I couldn't share my more personal thoughts for fear of offending or freaking them out. When I try to talk about things that interest me in a "light" social setting, someone usually reacts with thick-necked chortled laughter and a "Whoa buddy, that's deep..." which causes me to roll my eyes, because they obviously think I'm trying to be impressive or magnanimous or something, when, really, I just want to talk about what's interesting to me.
    This...is me. And yes, I was completely thrown by the 'group' setting idea, since I have always had roving friends in loose networks and a close-knit group of 3 or 4 really close friends. And when we're in a social situation, idolatrie and I tend to 'hold court' or 'grandstand' where we essentially perform for other people - not deliberately, but we just get carried away with telling stories and making jokes and other people sort of watch us, laughing, but not really joining in. We want them to join in, but I guess we're pretty happy to entertain as well.
    ()
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  5. #85
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Wow... I just read this entire thread and am willing to bet a forum member on my current hypothesis that unefille is EIE and idolatrie an LSI.

    The colour-coded tabs thing totally reminds me of my LSI best friends. They both did that a lot in class to keep track of everything and I admired them for it, though I never quite got into it, too lazy, haha.

    I have never been so sure that two people have been so wrong about their own self-typings. I knew straight away actually, that idolatrie was no LSE as I felt no Te-vibe from her, as I've mentioned before. It was a reassuring, solid vibe, one that I get consistently from Ti-dominants. Yes, she has made good points about her being Te > Ti and I really do not have anything great to contradict those points because I'm terrible at elucidating my thoughts but I do believe that perhaps stereotypes have seriously messed up both their opinions' on the functions. I believe unefille has even admitted her own "wrong" impressions of Beta that at first turned her off.

    One of the strongest pieces of evidence (imo) that you guys ARE Beta is the fact that Nick, Gilly, and I are both so sure of it. I am pretty damn convinced we are all Beta NFs and when a consensus that forceful is being reached by 3 solidly typed people, then you have to wonder what exactly it is we "feel" about you guys.

    Sure, the Deltas here have voiced their opinions about how similar they feel you are, but they have not truly made as many solid points as we have about why exactly you guys are Delta... I dunno, maybe THEY could be typed wrong! Haha, nah, I don't really know what I'm saying, all I know is that I'm 99% sure you guys are ENFj and ISTj.


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  6. #86
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    This...is me. And yes, I was completely thrown by the 'group' setting idea, since I have always had roving friends in loose networks and a close-knit group of 3 or 4 really close friends. And when we're in a social situation, idolatrie and I tend to 'hold court' or 'grandstand' where we essentially perform for other people - not deliberately, but we just get carried away with telling stories and making jokes and other people sort of watch us, laughing, but not really joining in. We want them to join in, but I guess we're pretty happy to entertain as well.
    Yes, this is me as well. I enjoy large groups I suppose for the occasional party or whatnot, but truly, I desire intimate relations with small groups. I think this is one of the lamest misconceptions about Fi vs Fe -- that Fi prefers closer-knit groups whilst Fe valuers prefer large, rowdy groups of people whom barely know each-other and merely interact superficially to "have fun." This is probably why some Fi-valuers (those who have not studied the functions truly extensively and without judgment bias) look down upon us Fe/Ti people with their upturned faces and snub us. Bah!

    Everything Gilly has written about what he enjoys conversing about really resonates with me as well.

    Also, I think one of the biggest points towards your and idolatrie's entry into Beta-land is the style of your interactions with each-other and others that you've described. You have said that you can get very intense, argue, and scare others. They think something is truly wrong, but it's just the way you two are with each-other. That's something that is REALLY (imo) essential to Beta relations -- a fierce intensity which is a result of valued Fe & Se. When you combine those two, it just makes for very EXTREME/FORCEFUL expressions of EMOTION, especially when arguing outwardly about some type of logical system, something Ti related, trends/politics.. etc.

    What you described about you and idolatrie "holding court" and entertaining others does not sound IEE + LSE AT ALL. I'm unsure why you are even considering Delta anymore, tbh =D Embrace the Betazoid-hood!


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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Oh, and don't be fooled by all this talk of rowdiness and personal jests, etc; this is a "stereotype," a common manifestation of group behavior. I myself am not a fan of big, rowdy parties and crap like that; I was for a very short period of my life, but I got over it pretty quickly. As far as social life goes, I like having friends in a lot of places, giving me the opportunity to socialize with whomever I like, but I am prone to developing strong bonds with a tightly-knit group, sometimes of no more than 2 or 3 people, whenever I settle down in a place for an extended period of time. I like socializing in a more intimate atmosphere where people can share their life experiences and their views, how they see things. I enjoy lengthy conversations about life visions, worldviews, plans to make something happen, artistic endeavors, adventures, spiritual experiences, defining moments in life, things that are "sacred," and the like.

    I get absolutely nothing from superficial conversations in which people simply "update" each other about their pointless day-to-day goings on in life: "So Shirley threw a fit at me and Bob yesterday...Did you see Jim's new rims on his car?...I had cramps when I got out of bed today...Sometimes I wish Shirley wasn't such an angry bitch..." I think these kinds of things can be appreciated deeply by the individuals who experience them (for serious; sometimes I get more out of standing up and looking out my window than a long philosophical rant with a buddy), and I love talking to people about their personal lives if they need an ear or someone to give them advice, but just listening to people important-ify the stupid shit that happens on a daily basis, to me, seems ridiculous. This is what made me so tired of big parties: I got sick of having to come up with stupid, pointless shit to talk about with people who I had already shared most of my interesting stories with, who didn't have any interesting stories or thought they were too "personal" to tell me, with whom I couldn't share my more personal thoughts for fear of offending or freaking them out. When I try to talk about things that interest me in a "light" social setting, someone usually reacts with thick-necked chortled laughter and a "Whoa buddy, that's deep..." which causes me to roll my eyes, because they obviously think I'm trying to be impressive or magnanimous or something, when, really, I just want to talk about what's interesting to me.
    Forgive me for saying so... but this sounds SO much like IEE to me. Just seems there's just so much + going on here. Very expansive sentiments.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Forgive me for saying so... but this sounds SO much like IEE to me. Just seems there's just so much + going on here. Very expansive sentiments.
    How is any of this Ne+Fi?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  9. #89
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    How is any of this Ne+Fi?
    Yeah, that's what I wanna know. I must be an IEE, huh?


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    there's probably stuff in it that all NFs identify with, not just EIEs

  11. #91
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    aka just wants me to be an E7
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    1. I'm not comfortable with expressing how I feel about someone if I feel like I'm being emotionally manipulated into it. If someone says: 'I really like you'; 'I love you'; 'You're one of my closest friends' and I can't reciprocate the sentiment, I will usually just smile and say something neutral but complimentary, or make a wisecrack in response. My 'lukewarm' responses have often resulted in problems maintaining female friends as I was growing up, because they felt I was holding them at an emotional arms-length.
    This sounds like weak ethics. In fact, on top of that, it sounds like devalued Fe.

    2. Its common practice amongst the people I know now to kiss each other in greeting. This isn't a practice that I was familiar with until I started university and I at first I found it very affected. I don't mind it now, but I often won't initiate a greeting kiss until something internal changes and I feel there is a relationship between us. This has, on occassion, led to situations where people position themselves near me for a kiss, and instead I simply open conversation, leaving them slightly lost. However, if they initiate, I will respond warmly, always.
    This sounds like introversion. An awareness that you prefer the other to initiate, and that you feel more comfortable if they do.

    3. One of my closest friends went to Europe for the summer. We arranged to go to the Art Gallery when she got back. Upon seeing me, she opened her arms wide and tried to engulf me in a happy hug. I didn't feel like it, so I side-stepped her, slipped my arm through hers and said: 'It's too warm to hug', which made her laugh, at least.
    Yep, this confirms what I think about your poor Fe, and almost scared reaction to it; like you don't know how to deal with it.

    4. My default mode is to be civil, welcoming and conciliatory. However, on occasion, if I think it's 'appropriate', I will make an 'inappropriate' comment that's rude or snappy or sharp, just to shift the gears of the discussion. I teach casually and my method often shocks people, because it usually involves teasing or mocking the students, writing sarcastic comments on their papers, interspersed with running commentary on what I think as I'm reading their writing. A lot of other teachers/tutors are just warm and accepting - but I think students are so placid about making mistakes that you need to grab their attention. I can be sharp and critical where I think it's warranted and then change back to warm when I think they've heard the message. I always thought the warm, diplomatic, 'everything you do is great' teachers were Fe-valuing - now I'm definitely reassessing.
    Honestly, you want to know what I think, unefille? I think you should check out Delta ST; honestly. Your interactions on this forum have been pretty representative of the kind of behaviour that comes to mind when I think of Delta ST behaviour. And, if snegledmaca is an SLI as niffweed and I (and probably quite a few others) believe, then I think you too are either his mirror or his identical, because your style of writing reminds me a lot of his.

    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    From my perspective (as a friend, not making assumptions on my type or my knowledge of functions), she becomes expressionless and closed off as a defensive mechanism, definitely not as a strategic move.
    This was one of the things that made me think of poor Fe. For example, when a Fe PoLR encounters Fe, they don't know what to do with it. They send out the least amount of Fe signals possible, and so will often act awkwardly in social situations, as unefille described. Say the person with the giant hug; they were giving unefille some Fe, and she rejected it, because she had no idea what to do with it; she was uncomfortable with expressing that kind of emotion. And what you say about her having no expression as being a defence mechanism is certainly compatible with this idea.

    You can pretty much feel her pulling back into herself, but that she's still rapidly processing what's going on. At that point, I feel she cares less about what the other person is thinking/feeling, and more about dealing with her own response. But this is also contingent upon the social context.
    I think this could be representative of strong Te, probably valued.

    Also, she doesn't respond much to excessive emotional displays. I've noticed that the more someone, particularly guys, pursue her, the more she gets turned off. By excessive emotional displays, I mean calling her frequently, emailing her regularly - sometimes using flimsy excuses to do so, wanting to meet up. I thin part of her annoyance was in the other party not defining what their relationship was, but trying to date her by 'stealth' if you will.
    Probably means she's Se devaluing, which basically eliminates the prospect of ILI. SLI is becoming increasingly likely.

  13. #93
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    *headdesk*
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  14. #94
    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    SLI is becoming increasingly likely.


    Ok, so the type thread is probably going to be essential I think, because we've introduced more confusion into the mess of possible types.
    ()
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post


    Ok, so the type thread is probably going to be essential I think, because we've introduced more confusion into the mess of possible types.
    Honestly, I think Delta ST works from the information you and your friend, idolatrie, have given me. I don't think anyone is properly reading what you're saying if they are going "BETA" or "EIE" repetitively like a mindless dickhead. If the information is inaccurate, or skewered, then that is a different matter. But I'm taking your word for it, and interpreting it socionically. I think you're not an ethical type, and you're certainly not Fe ego. I don't think you value Se/Ni; in fact, I'm certain of it.

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    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    This sounds like introversion. An awareness that you prefer the other to initiate, and that you feel more comfortable if they do.
    I do know that I prefer other people to initiate physical contact/touch etc. I mean, this could be type indicative, or it could be that I just wasn't hugged a lot as a child. My family isn't big on hugging. I get hugged a lot more now, because I initiate with my parents. They're not very...touchy-feely people.

    Yep, this confirms what I think about your poor Fe, and almost scared reaction to it; like you don't know how to deal with it.
    This is what I've always thought as well. For more clarity, the friend in case is SEE - one of the few people I am still convinced after everything that I've typed correctly and I've never enjoyed being hugged by her. Uh, this is going to sound a bit weird, but she sort of pushes you up against her really tightly and squeezes and I'm not very comfortable with that.

    This was one of the things that made me think of poor Fe. For example, when a Fe PoLR encounters Fe, they don't know what to do with it. They send out the least amount of Fe signals possible, and so will often act awkwardly in social situations, as unefille described. Say the person with the giant hug; they were giving unefille some Fe, and she rejected it, because she had no idea what to do with it; she was uncomfortable with expressing that kind of emotion. And what you say about her having no expression as being a defence mechanism is certainly compatible with this idea.
    Well, to be fair (and I'm not arguing FOR EIE), I think that's a misrepresentation. Firstly, I remember that incident very clearly because it was a strange situation. For some reason, seeing her coming toward me, all this very pushy warmth, I suddenly didn't want to hug her. I didn't feel overwhelmed by her, I think, I simply didn't want to hug her. I also wasn't awkward in the way I dodged her, I knew my response would make her laugh, because I positioned myself very close and next to her, arm in arm.

    Also, whilst idolatrie described it as a defense mechanism, I wouldn't necessarily agree, I think its definitely strategic. I think she's coming at it from the position of an 8, who prefers to attack back when attacked. I'm not shutting down emotionally to protect myself. The specific incident I had in mind was when I had a run in with my employer. I am definitely still processing what is going and weighing what I think are the best options. I have gotten into fights before and expressed anger without any problem before as well. But there are definitely situations where I hold myself back from doing anything and I think I have remarkable self-control in this respect.

    Probably means she's Se devaluing.
    I don't like being hounded by these particular guys, it's true, but in any case, I'm not sure it means anything, but the guys were (if they were typed correctly, and I still believe they were) LII, ILE and LIE. None of them were straight-forward about their 'pursuit', except for the LIE who finally got very drunk, declared his love, and cursed me when I turned him down and told him I had a boyfriend, which I wasn't very impressed by.

    It was definitely the 'pursuit by stealth' aspect that annoyed me, more than the constant hounding. Because they weren't willing to openly express their intentions, I wasn't able to open reject them, so I had to constantly field these phone-calls, emails, and meetings with civility and some warmth. I've never liked people who I see as 'spineless' and they were definitely moving toward that territory.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    aka just wants me to be an E7
    It's not that I *want* you to be anything. Just that you seem to be 7w6, based on my experience and understanding of enneagram.

    Of course, your vacillation with regard to type has made me question my instincts. I'm now open to the idea that you're 6w7. 6s tend to go through enneagram/personality types like Kleenex. You're a Gilly-go-round.

    And I'm also saying that ALL of what you wrote encompasses my observations of a IEE 7w8 I am acquainted with. He could have expressed EXACTLY the same criteria verbatim. I also tend to find most of the experiences and viewpoints you express here to be very first-and-foremost.

    Just MO. I've never said I'm a socionics authority.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Yeah, that's what I wanna know. I must be an IEE, huh?
    Nope. Your vibe and Gilly's don't seem the same, at least IMO. You don't strike me as his identical, despite your assertion that you identify with everything Gilly. EIE seems valid for you. -leading makes sense to me.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    You're a Gilly-go-round.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  21. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    And just thinking about the way I describe things in my writing - it's very much trying to use words to articulate an inner image; the essence of what I percieve, rather than the sensory properties of it
    ftw

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    Which exactly describes my dynamic with idolatrie: whenever I get worked up about something, or on the verge of changing my mind, in a fret, I lay out all my thoughts and arguments on the table for her. She's much more set and rigid in her thinking processes and she tends to reject a lot of arguments. She's also much slower to change her mind. In that way, in order to persuade or argue with her, I have to clarify my thinking. Eventually, we reach a reasoned conclusion that is much more productive.
    Sounds like a beta ST giving the beta NF direction, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    Wow, if that's Ti valuing (especially the bolded the bit) then I'm REALLY going to have to rethink things because um, coloured tags and index systems is a way of life for idolatrie and I. More her, though.
    Don't get caught up in trivial details when it comes to functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
    I find my ways very similar to the way you describe the way you push your students to get better. I imagined this was caused by a strong Ne? Why else bother?
    No. Her description of that only suggested a preference for .

    Quote Originally Posted by mimosa Pudica
    I do have some very strong Ni-traits as well, knowing a lot more than most people about the future.
    This isn't Ni.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett
    I think this is one of the lamest misconceptions about Fi vs Fe -- that Fi prefers closer-knit groups whilst Fe valuers prefer large, rowdy groups of people whom barely know each-other and merely interact superficially to "have fun."
    Yes (niffweed), this is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett
    That's something that is REALLY (imo) essential to Beta relations -- a fierce intensity which is a result of valued Fe & Se. When you combine those two, it just makes for very EXTREME/FORCEFUL expressions of EMOTION, especially when arguing outwardly about some type of logical system, something Ti related, trends/politics.. etc.
    Yeah, I FUCKIN KNOW RIGHT???

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune
    Forgive me for saying so... but this sounds SO much like IEE to me. Just seems there's just so much + going on here. Very expansive sentiments.
    Yeah, I was wondering if someone was gonna point this out, lol.
    Last edited by strrrng; 08-27-2008 at 09:21 PM.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  22. #102
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I really don't see what is "Ne" or "Fi" (you misquoted, Nick) about my post...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Honestly, I think Delta ST works from the information you and your friend, idolatrie, have given me. I don't think anyone is properly reading what you're saying if they are going "BETA" or "EIE" repetitively like a mindless dickhead. If the information is inaccurate, or skewered, then that is a different matter. But I'm taking your word for it, and interpreting it socionically. I think you're not an ethical type, and you're certainly not Fe ego. I don't think you value Se/Ni; in fact, I'm certain of it.
    lol, you're wrong
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  24. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    I really don't see what is "Ne" or "Fi" (you misquoted, Nick) about my post...
    I don't think you're delta. It's just that some portions of that post could be construed as delta values, imo.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  25. #105
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    And what would those portions be?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  26. #106

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    I'm not particularly interested in discussing your type in this thread. If you want to discuss it in pm (although it will lead nowhere, since your not delta), I would be happy to paste the paragraph and point out what I noticed.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  27. #107
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I just didn't see how what I said could be construed as relating to Ne or Fi, so I was curious. I'm not looking to debate my type.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Sure, the Deltas here have voiced their opinions about how similar they feel you are, but they have not truly made as many solid points as we have about why exactly you guys are Delta...
    Fi knows. It's in the heart.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  29. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Honestly, I think Delta ST works from the information you and your friend, idolatrie, have given me. I don't think anyone is properly reading what you're saying if they are going "BETA" or "EIE" repetitively like a mindless dickhead. If the information is inaccurate, or skewered, then that is a different matter. But I'm taking your word for it, and interpreting it socionically. I think you're not an ethical type, and you're certainly not Fe ego. I don't think you value Se/Ni; in fact, I'm certain of it.
    I was going to reply to this seriously but then as I reread it I realised it might be a joke. I'm still not sure. This was hilarious though: "I don't think anyone is properly reading what you're saying if they are going "BETA" or "EIE" repetitively like a mindless dickhead." Anyway, what I was going to say, regardless of whether this is a joke or not, is that (I agree that) we should be aware of the danger of settling on one hypothesis and then interpreting what's been said to fit with it, rather than evaluating the hypotheses to ensure they fit with what's been said

  30. #110
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    I am glad that Scarlettlux has ended up being a clearly typed EIE. Also, it seems to me that unefille is also clearly EIE. cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlettlux
    Yes, this is me as well. I enjoy large groups I suppose for the occasional party or whatnot, but truly, I desire intimate relations with small groups. I think this is one of the lamest misconceptions about Fi vs Fe -- that Fi prefers closer-knit groups whilst Fe valuers prefer large, rowdy groups of people whom barely know each-other and merely interact superficially to "have fun." This is probably why some Fi-valuers (those who have not studied the functions truly extensively and without judgment bias) look down upon us Fe/Ti people with their upturned faces and snub us. Bah!
    I agree with this. I like the occasional energetic (=rowdy) party, but mostly it's all about medium-sized groups of up to 7 people. Okay, well 7 people sounds like a lot, enough for a decent party, but I know all of these people well and definitely not just superficially. I think betas are even nicer than people of other quadras - we will accept new people to join in on the fun. The groups are rarely exclusive to life-time pals.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I do know that I prefer other people to initiate physical contact/touch etc. I mean, this could be type indicative, or it could be that I just wasn't hugged a lot as a child. My family isn't big on hugging. I get hugged a lot more now, because I initiate with my parents. They're not very...touchy-feely people.

    [...]

    This is what I've always thought as well. For more clarity, the friend in case is SEE - one of the few people I am still convinced after everything that I've typed correctly and I've never enjoyed being hugged by her. Uh, this is going to sound a bit weird, but she sort of pushes you up against her really tightly and squeezes and I'm not very comfortable with that.

    [...]

    Well, to be fair (and I'm not arguing FOR EIE), I think that's a misrepresentation. Firstly, I remember that incident very clearly because it was a strange situation. For some reason, seeing her coming toward me, all this very pushy warmth, I suddenly didn't want to hug her. I didn't feel overwhelmed by her, I think, I simply didn't want to hug her. I also wasn't awkward in the way I dodged her, I knew my response would make her laugh, because I positioned myself very close and next to her, arm in arm.
    Interesting. My EIE best friend is exactly the same. I'm always ready to show him the love, but he rejects any physical contact "unless in the arms of a woman I love". Even then, when his earlier girlfriends were quite forwardly physical with him, he was still a bit uncomfortable. And when you ask him directly "why?" he replies with "I just don't want to!", and he gets increasingly defensive the more you persevere.

    I don't like being hounded by these particular guys, it's true, but in any case, I'm not sure it means anything, but the guys were (if they were typed correctly, and I still believe they were) LII, ILE and LIE. None of them were straight-forward about their 'pursuit', except for the LIE who finally got very drunk, declared his love, and cursed me when I turned him down and told him I had a boyfriend, which I wasn't very impressed by.
    I bet if any of those guys were an SLE, they would've got you.

    On a serious note, though, LII would've been a good bet.

    It was definitely the 'pursuit by stealth' aspect that annoyed me, more than the constant hounding. Because they weren't willing to openly express their intentions, I wasn't able to open reject them, so I had to constantly field these phone-calls, emails, and meetings with civility and some warmth. I've never liked people who I see as 'spineless' and they were definitely moving toward that territory.
    And this is exactly why the EIE needs the LSI more than the LII; the LII is likely to pursue the EIE in a far less direct approach which the ESE will appreciate, but which the EIE will find somewhat annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    6s tend to go through enneagram/personality types like Kleenex. You're a Gilly-go-round.
    Yeah, there's a 6w7 on EIDB called Shinobi Shaw. He literally changes his type every time I post on the board (about once a week).

    And I'm also saying that ALL of what you wrote encompasses my observations of a IEE 7w8 I am acquainted with.
    I'd love to meet an IEE 7w8.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    EIE seems valid for you. -leading makes sense to me.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Sounds like a beta ST giving the beta NF direction, imo.
    Agreed.

    Yes (niffweed), this is correct.
    Are you agreeing with her or saying that the bullshit she is denying about Betas is actually true?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I was going to reply to this seriously but then as I reread it I realised it might be a joke. I'm still not sure. This was hilarious though: "I don't think anyone is properly reading what you're saying if they are going "BETA" or "EIE" repetitively like a mindless dickhead." Anyway, what I was going to say, regardless of whether this is a joke or not, is that (I agree that) we should be aware of the danger of settling on one hypothesis and then interpreting what's been said to fit with it, rather than evaluating the hypotheses to ensure they fit with what's been said
    I was being serious. And I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    I am glad that Scarlettlux has ended up being a clearly typed EIE. Also, it seems to me that unefille is also clearly EIE. cool.
    Welcome to Beta, unefille.

    Yes. Yes. YES. Another brick in the wall. Another soldier in the ranks of Beta. Another piece of the puzzle. The puzzle which I will complete. The puzzle which leads us toVICTORY.

    I agree with this. I like the occasional energetic (=rowdy) party, but mostly it's all about medium-sized groups of up to 7 people. Okay, well 7 people sounds like a lot, enough for a decent party, but I know all of these people well and definitely not just superficially. I think betas are even nicer than people of other quadras - we will accept new people to join in on the fun. The groups are rarely exclusive to life-time pals.
    YES. One thing I really don't like about Te/Fi types is their cliquishness; exclusiveness; "you can't sit with us" attitude. I could swear the Plastics in Mean Girls is headed by an SEE.

  32. #112
    Twist-Tie Spider iAnnAu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Oh, and don't be fooled by all this talk of rowdiness and personal jests, etc; this is a "stereotype," a common manifestation of group behavior. I myself am not a fan of big, rowdy parties and crap like that; I was for a very short period of my life, but I got over it pretty quickly. As far as social life goes, I like having friends in a lot of places, giving me the opportunity to socialize with whomever I like, but I am prone to developing strong bonds with a tightly-knit group, sometimes of no more than 2 or 3 people, whenever I settle down in a place for an extended period of time. I like socializing in a more intimate atmosphere where people can share their life experiences and their views, how they see things. I enjoy lengthy conversations about life visions, worldviews, plans to make something happen, artistic endeavors, adventures, spiritual experiences, defining moments in life, things that are "sacred," and the like.

    I get absolutely nothing from superficial conversations in which people simply "update" each other about their pointless day-to-day goings on in life: "So Shirley threw a fit at me and Bob yesterday...Did you see Jim's new rims on his car?...I had cramps when I got out of bed today...Sometimes I wish Shirley wasn't such an angry bitch..." I think these kinds of things can be appreciated deeply by the individuals who experience them (for serious; sometimes I get more out of standing up and looking out my window than a long philosophical rant with a buddy), and I love talking to people about their personal lives if they need an ear or someone to give them advice, but just listening to people important-ify the stupid shit that happens on a daily basis, to me, seems ridiculous. This is what made me so tired of big parties: I got sick of having to come up with stupid, pointless shit to talk about with people who I had already shared most of my interesting stories with, who didn't have any interesting stories or thought they were too "personal" to tell me, with whom I couldn't share my more personal thoughts for fear of offending or freaking them out. When I try to talk about things that interest me in a "light" social setting, someone usually reacts with thick-necked chortled laughter and a "Whoa buddy, that's deep..." which causes me to roll my eyes, because they obviously think I'm trying to be impressive or magnanimous or something, when, really, I just want to talk about what's interesting to me.
    BTW, folks ... this describes me pretty well, too. Don't assume it's related to a specific type.
    But FWIW, I really like the description you gave, Gilly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    BTW, folks ... this describes me pretty well, too. Don't assume it's related to a specific type.
    But FWIW, I really like the description you gave, Gilly.
    Yeah, it's a good description of an intelligent person. I'd pity anyone who didn't agree with it, to be honest.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Yes, this is me as well. I enjoy large groups I suppose for the occasional party or whatnot, but truly, I desire intimate relations with small groups. I think this is one of the lamest misconceptions about Fi vs Fe -- that Fi prefers closer-knit groups whilst Fe valuers prefer large, rowdy groups of people whom barely know each-other and merely interact superficially to "have fun." This is probably why some Fi-valuers (those who have not studied the functions truly extensively and without judgment bias) look down upon us Fe/Ti people with their upturned faces and snub us. Bah!

    Everything Gilly has written about what he enjoys conversing about really resonates with me as well.

    Also, I think one of the biggest points towards your and idolatrie's entry into Beta-land is the style of your interactions with each-other and others that you've described. You have said that you can get very intense, argue, and scare others. They think something is truly wrong, but it's just the way you two are with each-other. That's something that is REALLY (imo) essential to Beta relations -- a fierce intensity which is a result of valued Fe & Se. When you combine those two, it just makes for very EXTREME/FORCEFUL expressions of EMOTION, especially when arguing outwardly about some type of logical system, something Ti related, trends/politics.. etc.

    What you described about you and idolatrie "holding court" and entertaining others does not sound IEE + LSE AT ALL. I'm unsure why you are even considering Delta anymore, tbh =D Embrace the Betazoid-hood!
    great post, i agree with 100 percent, especially the bolded is dead on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    I am glad that Scarlettlux has ended up being a clearly typed EIE. Also, it seems to me that unefille is also clearly EIE. cool.


    I agree with this. I like the occasional energetic (=rowdy) party, but mostly it's all about medium-sized groups of up to 7 people. Okay, well 7 people sounds like a lot, enough for a decent party, but I know all of these people well and definitely not just superficially. I think betas are even nicer than people of other quadras - we will accept new people to join in on the fun. The groups are rarely exclusive to life-time pals.
    yes, plus 1

  35. #115
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    WHY DO YOU KEEP BUMPING OLD POSTS. WRITE SOMETHING ORIGINAL.

    GO ON I DARE U ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    great post, i agree with 100 percent, especially the bolded is dead on.



    yes, plus 1

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    WHY DO YOU KEEP BUMPING OLD POSTS. WRITE SOMETHING ORIGINAL.

    GO ON I DARE U ..
    my thoughts exactly what's the point of even commenting after the discussion is long over if all you have to say is "great" or "agreed" or "+1" or w/e, is it just to up your post count? I mean, it's not like you even stand a chance in this race, with BG here...

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    WHY DO YOU KEEP BUMPING OLD POSTS. WRITE SOMETHING ORIGINAL.

    GO ON I DARE U ..
    oh yeah?? MAYBE I WILL :wink:

  38. #118
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    @Gilly
    now youre iee how do you read the discussion in this thread?

  39. #119
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    Gilly is IEE? lol

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