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Thread: ESE-ILI conflict relations (ESFjs & INTps)

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  1. #1
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    Default ESE-ILI conflict relations (ESFjs & INTps)

    I've had a couple of circumstances where I've seen people of these types have problems, and it's just awful.

    I have a circle of friends - all moms - who met mainly through La Leche League, but also who were pulled in from other places. There is an INTp in this group who is kind of the odd woman out. She feels out of place and unhappy there, and hasn't been showing up to a lot of things, and I've finally figured it out. There are two women who have kind of taken over getting activities together and what-not, and they're both ESFj. They are great at getting us to all do things and have fun, but they don't like this INTp. She wasn't at a get-together the other day, and they were just digging into her about how she was anti-social and she was turning her daughter into a recluse. Her daughter is uncomfortable playing with the other kids and prefers to stay close to her mom, and these ESFjs think it's because of the INTp. That she doesn't "participate" (and by that they don't mean just show up) and therefore her daughter doesn't either.

    I found myself needing to defend this poor INTp and I felt awful. I really like these two ESFjs and they aren't naturally mean people, but it just felt so bad. I'm not sure how to handle this. All the people involved are good people.

    Does anyone have experience with these two types and their dealings? I don't think it's fair that this INTp should be left out but I'm not sure how to get her to feel more comfortable, or if it's even possible.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    This is precisely why human beings shouldn't procreate.

    What does the INTp want exactly?

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    The INTp should not spend too much time with those ESFjs. It's not good for any of them. It's better if they avoid each other.

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    Tell the ESFJs that it's counterproductive (for the child's benefit) to exclude the INTP woman. If they want justice to be served- i.e. helping the child- they shouldn't be isolating the mom.
    Tell the INTP that you understand where she's coming from; the ESFJs mean well, they just don't understand.
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Tell the ESFJs that it's counterproductive (for the child's benefit) to exclude the INTP woman. If they want justice to be served- i.e. helping the child- they shouldn't be isolating the mom.
    Tell the INTP that you understand where she's coming from; the ESFJs mean well, they just don't understand.
    And they will never understand. The ESFjs will never understand the INTp. Keep them away from each other. You are not helping the child by forcing it to be social with ESFjs.

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    Keep the ESFJ's away from interacting with the INTP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Tell the ESFJs that it's counterproductive (for the child's benefit) to exclude the INTP woman. If they want justice to be served- i.e. helping the child- they shouldn't be isolating the mom.
    Tell the INTP that you understand where she's coming from; the ESFJs mean well, they just don't understand.
    That's not the point. The way I understand what Slacker Mom said, the ESFjs are not excluding the INTp on purpose; on the contrary, they resent what they see as the lack of emotional engagement on the INTp's part. And they think that it is the INTp's own lack of emotional engagement that is acting as a sort of "bad influence" on the INTp's kid. So, if she'd say that to the ESFjs, they would just shrug and say that if the INTp would "participate" more, so would the kid. Who may also be another low-Fe type. Apart from teaching socionics to the ESFjs (what I would not advise at all), I don't know that anything can be done. They are not going to change their minds. If their own children find it easy to interact with other children, there is no way to get into their heads that it's not the INTp's fault.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    That's not the point. The way I understand what Slacker Mom said, the ESFjs are not excluding the INTp on purpose; on the contrary, they resent what they see as the lack of emotional engagement on the INTp's part. And they think that it is the INTp's own lack of emotional engagement that is acting as a sort of "bad influence" on the INTp's kid. So, if she'd say that to the ESFjs, they would just shrug and say that if the INTp would "participate" more, so would the kid. Who may also be another low-Fe type. Apart from teaching socionics to the ESFjs (what I would not advise at all), I don't know that anything can be done. They are not going to change their minds. If their own children find it easy to interact with other children, there is no way to get into their heads that it's not the INTp's fault.
    Yeah I understood that about the ESFJs perception of the INTP. I thought that from SlackerMom's description it sounded like the ESFJs weren't just upset at what they perceived to be the INTPs self-isolating behavior, but that the ESFJs, themselves, were beginning to consciously isolate the INTP from the group (e.g., talking about her behind her back). I agree that you can't really explain the INTP POV to the ESFJ- I've tried this myself to no avail.
    I'm not really sure what the exact events were with this group, so you may be right.
    EII; E6(w5)

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