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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Default the definition of Fe

    fyi
    Black (extraverted) ethics
    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods. This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.

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    paste this shit in allie's thread
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    Regardless of anything else, I am SO Fe.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    I AM NOT FE VALUING WILL EVERYONE PLEASE REALIZE THIS THANK YOU FE TYPES FOR SHOVING ME OUT YOUR QUADRAS eh
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    + 5.8273
    I was expecting an extra 100th...
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I wasn't trying to argue about your type, really. I was motivated more by the erroneous statements I saw/have seen here about Fe.
    That's what I thought, actually. And I'm glad you made this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    A real Fi valuer wouldnt say something like that. lol
    jals;dkfjal;vh;fdlks;
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    You're just making this too easy.
    ay?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Go home Fi-valuer... we don't want you anymore. There. Happy?
    But the Fi-valuers don't want me either. I'm homeless
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods.
    I think I might somewhat be able to do this, but only if I really try and focus on it. Usually I can catch which mood the other person is in, but I don't really feel like I know what to do to change it (if I think I want it to change).

    This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.
    I'd like to think Iknow what excites people, but I generally am wrong when I try to apply this IRL, lol. I can actually become somewhat annoying when I'm in this type of mood.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions.
    Eh, no way. I don't have very strong emotions, there's no way I could energize others with them.

    He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.
    Mbah. If I see somebody that is feeling bad, and I care about the person, I might try to raise their mood, but really it's mostly up to the person to recognize this attempt because it's more of a "prodding", I feel like I am tringly blindly when I do this.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity.
    Nope, not really. I think some people have said that on cam I appear "controlled" with my emotions, but it's not like that: they simply are not present! I have a lot of energy, but it's more mental/physical. Surely I like to laugh, though.
    A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.
    Well sometimes when I've had a very bad day I might snap at people and that definitely causes a bit of a release. But it doesn't happen often at all (maybe 3 times a year), and it's not conscious, and I don't even like it when it happens - it seems like I am using people for my own amusement...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie
    The things is Ezra, for me it is surfacey and lightweight means of entertainment. I think if I was Fe valuing I wouldn't be taking it as a joke.
    Yes, thank you. Real Fe valuers do take it seriously. I know I've sort of viewed it as an arena for competition where each move you make is very significant (which is probably more beta Fe, but that only strengthens the case against IEI for you). This is kind of the idea about Fe's intentionality - deliberately caring to affect the atmosphere in some way (that benefits you). More recently, I have come to see that Allie's emotional displays are nothing more than misguided boredom and that she attaches virtually nothing to them.
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    Black (extraverted) ethics

    ... It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.
    wtf does this mean? Ability or inability? Which is it? Or is this situational, maybe...?

    As for myself, I can't really say I've developed any good conscious control of my emotional state. And I guess I do sometimes use it creatively to affect my environment... albeit often in a completely unfocused and unpredictable manner. Kinda like meltdown of a nuclear reactor.

    I also don't like to think I might directly "manipulate" people or seek to control their emotional states -- this seems somewhat unethical, not to mention more likely to attract recrimination. Although perhaps I've just done this more indirectly, more in terms of acting as an influence rather than a direct motivator. ( creative rather than leading)
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune
    wtf does this mean? Ability or inability? Which is it? Or is this situational, maybe...?
    I think it has to do with a certain conscious control over your own energy and thus your ability to affect others' energy or the energy in the atmosphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    to Fi types, it is.
    No, actually it's not - or shouldn't be. A healthy individual should be able to appreciate non-quadra functions, even if they don't enjoy that type of atmosphere, because there is no better or worse. The fact that you have such a strong bias towards Fi (or what you deem Fi) and place Fe (or what you deem Fe) down in the gutter as something unworthy of your attention only demonstrates lack of understanding. And why would an INTp who supposedly understands the functions well be so dismissive of one function? Seems like an over-compensation to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    No, actually it's not - or shouldn't be. A healthy individual should be able to appreciate non-quadra functions, even if they don't enjoy that type of atmosphere, because there is no better or worse. The fact that you have such a strong bias towards Fi (or what you deem Fi) and place Fe (or what you deem Fe) down in the gutter as something unworthy of your attention only demonstrates lack of understanding. And why would an INTp who supposedly understands the functions well be so dismissive of one function? Seems like an over-compensation to me.
    oh, that's right. Fi types love Fe. i forgot about that. forgive my dogmatic stupidity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed
    oh, that's right. Fi types love Fe. i forgot about that. forgive my dogmatic stupidity.
    I didn't say that they love it. I merely pointed out that dismissing it as petty and superficial seemed like an over-compensatory attitude and suggested lack of understanding of the functions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I didn't say that they love it. I merely pointed out that dismissing it as petty and superficial seemed like an over-compensatory attitude and suggested lack of understanding of the functions.
    i didn't say it was petty and superficial (in this thread anyway), i said it appears petty and superficial to Fi types. and i stand by that.

    Fi might appear bitchy or overly self-righteous to Fe types. i stand by that as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Black (extraverted) ethics
    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods. This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.
    I know I've mentioned this to some of you, but this is an analogy I use and the visual I see as what I see as in action edit: as it relates to how I see the description above (though significantly biased, I hope that you can see what I'm talking about)

    [Aside: I've been looking all day to find the right clip to show what it is I see in my mind, but I'm going to have to show a few clips I'm afraid]

    The point I'm trying to make here is focus on what the DJ or others on stage are doing (both musically and more directly i.e. "PUT YOUR HANDS TOGETHER") to get the crowd involved (which I believe to be the stage evoking an emotional response from the crowd).

    Edit: I consider the emotional response in these instances that the stage is trying to evoke is the euphoric emotion.





    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hGfVRvikb38

    I hope this falls in line with what is.
    Last edited by tereg; 08-22-2008 at 05:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Black (extraverted) ethics
    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods. This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.


    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Funny, anger usually does the exact opposite...lol...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I think its clearly natural for every human being to express both emotional as well as superficial sentiments... that these aren't tied to the continuous expression of a single function. A function is more like a general attitude towards a large-scale event, but does not necessarily carry the same attitude towards every single stimulus that crosses its path.

    You yourself engage in that sort of small-talk from time to time. You aren't necessarily excercising any one function when you do it. Just telling your lips to move.
    sure. i don't see the problem with any of that and what i was saying. certainly, Fe and Fi make up an ethical spectrum of sorts that can be somewhat blurred. nonetheless, in a general sense, the outward, group-environment-focused Fe easily can appear superficial to Fi types. and the lack thereof similarly missing the point to Fe types.

    all of your objections to this rather simple conclusion to me seem fairly ridiculous and all read like "OMG NIFFWEED IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT AGAIN LETS ALL TEAM UP ON HIM AND GET HIM TO TAKE IT BACK; IT MATTERS THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THAT IS AS GOOD AS " (this is how i interpret it anyway) -- which rather ironically is an Fe perspective by and large, and is completely missing the point. nothing i said is intended as a derogatory remark.

    I'm still on the fence about Allie's type (between G-SF and INFp). But I think it's possible to consider that what you may be seeing in Allie as "Fe" could just be her lack of Te. Factors related to her age, upringing and other socioeconomic conditions, as well as finding a comfortable "information" niche within socionix could be why she doesn't appear to aggressively seek out and defend as much Te as other Gamma SFs.
    no. take another look at what i've talked about allie. all of this information is largely irrelevant towards the overall nature of character/image that she presents here (ie age). the thing about finding a comfortable information niche in ashton/strrrng seems a rather direct manifestation of her type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    sure. i don't see the problem with any of that and what i was saying. certainly, Fe and Fi make up an ethical spectrum of sorts that can be somewhat blurred. nonetheless, in a general sense, the outward, group-environment-focused Fe easily can appear superficial to Fi types. and the lack thereof similarly missing the point to Fe types.

    all of your objections to this rather simple conclusion to me seem fairly ridiculous and all read like "OMG NIFFWEED IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT AGAIN LETS ALL TEAM UP ON HIM AND GET HIM TO TAKE IT BACK; IT MATTERS THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THAT IS AS GOOD AS " (this is how i interpret it anyway) -- which rather ironically is an Fe perspective by and large, and is completely missing the point. nothing i said is intended as a derogatory remark.
    I obviously missed that in the beginning; my apologies. I didn't know you were presenting a side without endorsing it yourself. Actually, I haven't heard you blasting , because I haven't been around for a while. I can see how Fi and Fe-valuers would dismiss the other as having the wrong focus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    all of your objections to this rather simple conclusion to me seem fairly ridiculous and all read like "OMG NIFFWEED IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT AGAIN LETS ALL TEAM UP ON HIM AND GET HIM TO TAKE IT BACK; IT MATTERS THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THAT IS AS GOOD AS " (this is how i interpret it anyway) -- which rather ironically is an Fe perspective by and large, and is completely missing the point. nothing i said is intended as a derogatory remark.
    also, it seems to me as though people like dolphin, glamourama, allie, loki, and starfall have consistently championed this view in the past as a sort of "counter-attack" against typings by gamma NTs which they incorrectly perceived as being derogatory towards beta by shunting "idiots" into the beta quadra.

    this is hardly fair; for one thing, i think that betas and alphas largely predominate on this board. furthermore, not all "gammas" are nice people; i still think that both hoodrat and possibly cpig might be gammas, and both of them i consider assholes who i'd prefer never to speak to again. (in both cases though i'm sort of prevented from getting an accurate diagnosis of their types by my unwillingness to have anything to do with them)

    i am perfectly willing to acknowledge it if beta NFs say things like "i think your understanding of Fe is wrong; here is why" (as in the definition of Fe thread glamourama posted recently). however, this often seems not to be the case, and the "OMG WHY DO YOU HATE BETAS" argument seems to take over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    The things is Ezra, for me it is surfacey and lightweight means of entertainment. I think if I was Fe valuing I wouldn't be taking it as a joke.
    I think if you knew what Fe was, you wouldn't be supporting all this bullshit about Gamma SF.

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    You're Gamma now, Nifweed? I had wondered, but I thought you were typed INTj.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    Fe types: Is the analogy I drew above appropriate for a way to view ?

    Edit: Or anyone for that matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    You're Gamma now, Nifweed? I had wondered, but I thought you were typed INTj.
    This thread makes me wonder if Niff is getting PoLR hits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    This thread makes me wonder if Niff is getting PoLR hits
    Haha...maybe. But I do see how he was misunderstood.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Gang up on you Niffweed? Oh dear heavens no! I hate it when people get ganged up on. It's just that from the description that Glamourama posted it didn't seem like Fe was superficial. I can understand that some might percieve it to be. My point was that although something may be percieved one way that doesn't change how it really is (of course). I didn't want to gang up on you.

    Maybe I should think a lot more about what I'm going to post before I post it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrxtes
    Save yourself the effort and don't tell people what they think.

    You're wrong anyway.
    lol @ you again

    go memorize some more wikisocion to recite for your argument with Ashton
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Hey fish girl I got really bored and read your type thread. This is interesting because it means that the people that were trying to type you based off of your behavior have really weak arguments. Sorry Niffweed I thought perhaps you actually knew what you were talking about and maybe I just misunderstood you. Seems like you don't know how to type people or what Fe is. Funny that you're so confident in all this though. I get a strong vibe from you that you think you are the authority on Socionics.

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    lol @ nick for continuing to even marginally support Bashton's gross pseudo-Jungian "us against the ignorant world!" distortions of Socionics. Find something else to give you self-import, dude.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    i was pondering this discussion and i realized that part of the dispute that people were making has to do with different interpretations of the word "external."


    apart from the augustan functional dichotomy of internal/external, which is not the basis of how i was using the word, there are two basic ways that the word was being interpreted:

    i was referring to Fe as external, in the sense that it is largely focused in dealing with drawing emotional information from the surrounding environment and not in the same "internal," self-sustaining manner that Fi might. i believe this is absolutely true, but i'm unsure as to whether this is really being disputed so much as people simply interpreting internal in a more augustan way; ie the idea that Fe is essentially a psychological, emotional process. obviously, this is not an objective atmosphere nor are emotions purely dictated by the environment so much as by the individual's perception of them. it is, i think, a far more vague use of the word "internal" to describe this process in this manner, but reflecting on dolphin's rants it seems to me based on my recollections that this is what she may have been advocating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    lol @ nick for continuing to even marginally support Bashton's gross pseudo-Jungian "us against the ignorant world!" distortions of Socionics. Find something else to give you self-import, dude.
    lol @ you for not being able to understand functions as they are, hence how you think you're Ni-ENFj.

    And lol even more @ you projecting your own motivations for doing things (self-importance) onto me. How cute
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Nice try, anyways.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    You mean this one? http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=16458

    lol, that was a long time ago. I didn't understand any of the stuff I do now (I'm still learning lol) and I'm not sure that my posts about my preferred behavior in that thread are very relevant, because my behavior has changed alot since then (it's still changing). I used to be lighthearted and "fun", and people thought I was Alpha. Now that I'm bitchy and say "fuck" alot to prove my point, I'm Beta. It doesn't matter that I have grown as a person and am still in the process of changing?? It doesn't matter that even DOLPHIN, "sweet, adorable, peacemaking" DOLPHIN could actually get fed up with repetitive bullshit? Even I have a limit, lol. I'm not sure it's type related. Which is why the behavior thing just doesn't make any sense to me.
    No honey. You're a mamal. I was referring to Fish Girl.

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    No honey. You're a mamal. I was referring to Fish Girl.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Speeling iz nat my best subjact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin
    A facade is simply a front, an imitation, is it not? I don't think anyone would argue that putting up a facade is the real thing. If you're putting up a facade about Se, then you're not really experiencing it, are you? You're just imitating the way you think it looks. You're not imitating the way it looks because you really want to directly use it, you just want the results you percieve that the use of it produces.
    Precisely. Emulating a function through behaviors which are typically associated with it does NOT mean you are experiencing the function. All you are doing is behaving in a way which correlates with the information aspect of that function, hence how functions precede aspects: anyone can utilize/emulate an aspect, but functions are internal things that cannot be faked, no matter how hard you try.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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