So, based on my last thread, there seems to be some general disagreement on which beta type fits best for me. I'm still open to suggestions, which is why I made this poll.
ENFj
ESTp
ISTj
INFp
So, based on my last thread, there seems to be some general disagreement on which beta type fits best for me. I'm still open to suggestions, which is why I made this poll.
4w3-5w6-8w7
all four of them make some amount of sense.
INFj
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
This was my gut instinct, but I didn't want to say anything too soon.Originally Posted by Allie
4w3-5w6-8w7
So I read a few of the general functional position descriptions on the wiki, and a few that would apply to ISTj I related to. Such as...
I have always felt a strong control over my own will and an ability to readily take control of a situation without any help. I mentioned the exercise regime from before; that was my own doing, and frankly, the structured environment seemed to be my optimal performance mode.Originally Posted by Se creative
This is obviously a general statement taken in isolation, and can mean one of two things: an IEI overindulging in their agenda to compensate, or an LSI having such confidence in his base function that he feels he can make proclamations without necessarily having to back them up, since he believes himself correct. I believe I mentioned this type of attitude in my other thread.Originally Posted by Ti base
I cannot count the number of times my family has told me this. It's like, I love an Fe atmosphere, but maybe if the function was weak (and unconscious) I wouldn't have the same control over it that I would desire, and coupled with an Se ego, may make me come off as abrasive and rude at times without even meaning to. Like sometimes when I make jokes around the deltas in my family, it's like they have no clue how to respond (they're NF's). I think it's the Se of it that throws them off more than anything. Wouldn't an Fe ego type be able to mold the humor to his audience, whereas with me, I just want the Fe response?Originally Posted by Fe dual seeking
Well, I guess this is a personal example, but fairly recently I sort of had this attitude manifest with a relationship. I was strongly attached to the person, and every time I felt a lack of certainty in the relationship, I would go off on meaningless tangents, absurd causality relationships about what would happen. It had virtually no order and seemed to be a compensation, maybe for not having a naturally preferred state? (TiSe)Originally Posted by Ni mobilizing
Also, after rereading dj's pm to me, I think the part about Se was a little exaggerated. Also, if I was worried about saving face, that would suggest weak and unconscious Fe rather than ego, right? The thing is, confrontation has never bothered me. Whether he felt I made a few remarks and backed out is generally irrelevant, because I enjoy that atmosphere and will push it to the very end. I would expect INxp's, while valuing Se, to be a little more offset having it thrown in their face in a negative way by an Se ego type. dj's (a supposed Se ego type) past comments to me that could be construed as Se never offset me; it was more about the Fe image than anything else.
a few segments of my convo with niff...
NiffweedXVII (3:56:03 PM): but i do sort of have an easier time seeing you as a Ti type for things like that
strrrng (3:56:31 PM): yea, and even comparing my attitude towards things to yourself...with Se dual seeking or w/e
NiffweedXVII (3:57:51 PM): you seem sort of
NiffweedXVII (3:57:54 PM): more disciplined i guess
4w3-5w6-8w7
Makes sense. And I never really identified with Se base; it's just too outwardly active for me. Plus, my typing of 4w5 always seemed to make sense, which doesn't go well with ISTj, lol.Originally Posted by Expat
Well, of course you say that lol.Originally Posted by Cyclops
4w3-5w6-8w7
fuck this lol
4w3-5w6-8w7
Despite all this great theorizing lol, I just spoke with my Se-ESTp friend and I really felt the duality. That's all.![]()
4w3-5w6-8w7
hmm...any prominent reasons?Originally Posted by Gilly
4w3-5w6-8w7
You look like a victim.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Well I think Beta is pretty obvious, IP temperament certainly fits best, you seem more intuitive than sensory, and I have to agree with discojoe that your emotional reactions to arguments seem, if not always blatantly obvious, at least "there."
And, anyone who gets hard on a babysitter putting them in time out is obviously a Victim...DUH
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
lol, I see where you're coming from. One thing to keep in mind is that preconceptions can and do guide behavior, and I am most likely guilty of exaggerating certain things a bit. Anyway...Originally Posted by Gilly
make of this what you will
strrrng (10:29:46 PM): "The Ego block also describes the most natural and common states of mind and behavior styles " >>somehow this just makes me think of my exercise regime, the structured aspect of it
strrrng (10:30:04 PM): how effortless that was
NiffweedXVII (10:30:52 PM): yeah i
NiffweedXVII (10:30:58 PM): definitely could see sort of where your
NiffweedXVII (10:31:04 PM): natural mode of being lies in Ti + Se
strrrng (10:31:20 PM): yea
strrrng (10:31:21 PM): like
strrrng (10:31:23 PM): the um
strrrng (10:31:45 PM): natural state of INxp's, which I think I've come to grasp well, seems sort of like something where I'd feel out of control
strrrng (10:32:15 PM): like u just seem sort of comfortable and indifferent about your natural state
strrrng (10:32:18 PM): whereas um
strrrng (10:32:32 PM): I'll take more notice of it if I'm in a state like that
NiffweedXVII (10:32:55 PM): and what is your response to being in a state like that?
strrrng (10:33:02 PM): it's like um
strrrng (10:34:01 PM): I can rationalize it but I always want some internal feeling of control...I may even be self-critical (i.e. I "should" be exercising)...and sort of look for some Ti guiding principle to have as support
NiffweedXVII (10:34:30 PM): right
strrrng (10:35:06 PM): whereas even an IEI with a developed Ti function still I think would feel more at ease in that state...or less self-conscious
NiffweedXVII (10:36:20 PM): right
I also noticed more contrasts between myself and my mom, specifically, how I am much more confident in my own logical/systematic understanding of things that she is. Obviously, super-id functions can be developed to a decent degree, but I really doubt an IEI would be as naturally critical and arrogant about Ti things with a former ethical type. And the shit I say to her in arguments makes sense (oddly, my ENFp brother always seems to get it, partially b/c he's an outsider, and maybe also because he has learned an appreciation for my style), and I take it very seriously, which would make sense for a base function, whereas she sort of picks and chooses what to accept. I could never see myself doing this (obviously Ti dual seeking is different than Ti HA, but still); I always notice logical flaws in my own understanding and sort of depend on them being right for a sense of well-being.
I'm starting a type blog lol
4w3-5w6-8w7
Well, after having a discussion with him recently, i'm pretty sure he's Beta, comes across as introvert with emotive reasoning, weak T, so that leaves INFp for him.
I remember this one time with this girl I liked (and who liked me), we would talk in school, etc. But I was also kind of paranoid about how she felt about this other guy who supposedly liked her as well. Sometimes on aim if I sent a message and she didn't respond in what I thought was an appropriate time frame, I would get sort of paranoid about the status of our relationship and start developing all these absurd hypotheses for why she wasn't answering. This is similar to the example I gave earlier about a more current relationship.
Would a type who is strong in Ni, Fe, Ne and Fi act like this? Wouldn't they be more confident in their assessment of the status of the relationship and the other person's motives to not get so offset by such trivial occurrences?
Insight plz
4w3-5w6-8w7
That's already a sign of not-so-weak Fi (that is you state, as if with casual confidence that it is a fact that she liked you.)
By contrast, that is much more difficult for me: I tend to qualify it with "I think she liked me".
Well, you were confident enough to know that she liked you. So maybe : you were assessing it well; she was ambiguous about the other guy, and with good reason you wondered what was going on.
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, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Not exactly. I mean, this is in retrospect, so it's obvious she liked me (ESTps aren't exactly subtle about expressing such things lol). I think my assessment of a relationship in a more incipient stage of development, or when I only had certain information to go on, would be more indicative of strong/weak Fi, rather than a recollection of something which cannot be doubted in any rational way.Originally Posted by Expat
That's the thing, though - I wasn't confident about whether she liked me or not at the time. If I observed her even talking to the other guy, I would get all offset and not know what was going on. It was very absolute, and I felt sort of vulnerable at assessing our relationship status without complete clarity and directness from her.Originally Posted by Expat
Her ambiguity was probably more of an Se power play (weak Fe as well...trying to garner more attention) than anything else, which is kind of annoying lol. Stupid attention whore.
4w3-5w6-8w7
AHAHAHAH I do this same exact shit man. I used to get paranoid as fuck with my last serious girlfriend would IM me and I would try to talk to her and she wouldn't respond for a minute...I would always feel like "wtf am I not good enough to hold your attention so you have to fold laundry and answer your e-mail and shit like IMing your bf is just some task you do while you're sitting around with no homework?"
*sigh*
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Yeah, probably also some identity triad shit involved as well (idealism, worthlessness).Originally Posted by Gilly
4w3-5w6-8w7
According to a few, I'm too confident to be a 4.
Couldn't a 4 just put up a facade?
Also, I'm apparently too definite/logical with my ideas and too combative/proactive to be an INFp or a 4.
Somebody show my the light...
Like when I feel a complete awareness of my physical presence when engaging in sports and notice how a specific type of movement results, and inherently feel the way in which I am moving, seeing the internal and external leverage and manipulating it effectively...Originally Posted by wiki
Well, I'll be GOT-DAMNED. This is exactly what I was referring to - noticing the subtle details behind a given movement. This is effortless for me; once I learn a movement, it becomes second nature. When I step back and think about throwing a given combination, it seems complex in principle, but when I do it, it feels pure and improvisational; I just know what to do. Oh, and in terms of getting caught up in the moment and reacting fluidly in sparring, that's a given. I love that shit: you feel your opponent's punch connect with your face, take note of his position, leverage yourself, strike, connect; it's heaven-like, lol.Originally Posted by esper's blog
*cough*Originally Posted by Se dual seeking
yeah fuckin right. lacking in willpower? indecision? the fuck...if this is Se dual seeking, there's no way I'm an IEI. I implement my will whenever and wherever I feel like it, lol, with or without help.
Possibly.Originally Posted by Starfall
4w3-5w6-8w7
I don't know. I've been in Strrng's position and I read the situation correctly even if I tried to pretend I wasn't. Still to this day I sometimes hate it if someone doesn't answer as I feel they should, but I try to be more relaxed about it. Still it's upsetting at times as I can feel ignored or slighted. Guess I am simply senstitive in that way. But I hate it if there are 'different' rules for behaviour between what I see as acceptable (and what I live after) and the exptected behaviour of others towards me (I expect the same towards me as I try to show towards them).
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Right, and it IS an internal ideal, which goes quite well with 4. My training regime has always come from my "internal vision"Originally Posted by Steve
Ok, and I think this is what I was doing for a while.Originally Posted by Starfall
4w3-5w6-8w7
Yeah, but for reasons probably tied to self-esteem, whereas with a 6, it would probably be more about association with something good for security.Originally Posted by Steve
I briefly talked to niffweed about this, and I'm not sure how/what it's related to. But with my group of friends, I tended to have an arrogant attitude. I think beta aristocracy played a part, i.e. 'this is us and that is them' type of thing, but i also think it could be enneagram related...not sure. Mostly with my closest friend who boxed with me, it was sort of like we knew we were better than others in that department, so there was an unspoken disdain for the "pussies" etc. And my group was, oddly enough, 2 betas, 2 deltas and a gamma. So, interactions with others tended to have a certain feel. I could have possibly been projecting internal ideals to build my self image. I didn't really care about having a group of friends for security or validation (probably more so/6 related), but rather, it was fun, plus we were better than themAnd that's how I want my groups of friends to be - aristocratic, definite and unconcerned with others, generally speaking. Beta elitism ftw!!
4w3-5w6-8w7
.
Right, I was basically conveying an indifferent attitude that my group would take towards "outsiders." Technically, you could say I was concerned with them, because I wouldn't have focused on comparing them to us if I wasn't, but at the same time, I was unconcerned, cause I knew we were betterOriginally Posted by diana
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4w3-5w6-8w7
I got from this that he is comparing to his own internal idea (he thinks he is different/better than them for various reasons), and unconcerned with other's perceptions of him/his group of friends.
You do make a good point here, that if he is unconcerned with others then what is he comparing his internal idea to? I think that points to identity issues of 4 and holding onto an idea of a self, feeling seperated from "others" and different and somehow special.
Makes no sense cause it is a fixation, skewed perception of reality, but still how the 4 sees the world.
Edit: strrrng's post explains what he really meant. I wrote this a few hours ago, and didn't post until now.. didn't see it at first....
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
Correct. I have these internal ideals about specific traits, which I would project onto my own group, and try to mirror the absence of in other people. And if I saw that trait in someone, I would want to interact with them, because doing so would fuel my own internal self-image by receiving input of that trait in reality. It is derived from, in my opinion, feeling inherently defective, and thus compensating with unnecessary ideals and self-aggrandizing.Originally Posted by Christy
Right, the point is I do care - about maintaining my own special identity. Thus I project my insecurities outward to facilitate this process.You do make a good point here, that if he is unconcerned with others then what is he comparing his internal idea to? I think that points to identity issues of 4 and holding onto an idea of a self, feeling seperated from "others" and different and somehow special.
Yeah, other people probably wouldn't care enough to waste so much time on internal self-talk and comparisons. I think it points to identity triad and an underlying feeling of shame/worthlessness.Makes no sense cause it is a fixation, skewed perception of reality, but still how the 4 sees the world.
4w3-5w6-8w7
HE'S A BLOODY FOUR.
HE *IS* CONCERNED WITH OTHERS. OTHERWISE HE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THIS.You do make a good point here, that if he is unconcerned with others then what is he comparing his internal idea to? I think that points to identity issues of 4 and holding onto an idea of a self, feeling seperated from "others" and different and somehow special.
I DIDN'T READ HIS POST EITHER. LET'S JUST MAKE SNAP JUDGEMENTS BABY. YOU AND ME...Makes no sense cause it is a fixation, skewed perception of reality, but still how the 4 sees the world.
Edit: strrrng's post explains what he really meant. I wrote this a few hours ago, and didn't post until now.. didn't see it at first....