The Illusion

[Hitta]

Reality is a myth.

[xyz]

You know, reality really only is the sum of our senses.

[Hitta]

yep

[Hitta]

From a physical perceptive stand point yea, its only a combination of our senses. Even things beyond that our debatable though, even our concept of what it means to "exist". Everything is sort of like paradoxical, like truth doesn't exist or something(not saying there isn't truth, it just seems that way from our perspective). Nothing feels provable or solid; and everything sort of likes exact meaning. There could be worlds out there, things that we couldn't even imagine, something that would make our minds explode to see. Things that would make no sense to us in this plane of perception(maybe a truth or something).

[Phaedrus]

Reality is that which is what it is in itself. So if that which is what it is in itself is a myth, then reality is a myth. And if so, then it is of course not a myth that reality is a myth.

[tereg]

Obligatory The Matrix clip

[Hitta]

Reality is that which is what it is in itself. So if that which is what it is in itself is a myth, then reality is a myth. And if so, then it is of course not a myth that reality is a myth.

You are not really a big picture thinker are you?

[Wynch]

Reality is a myth.

Redundant statement. Language in and of itself is myth therefore you can never speak without speaking in myth. Reality, the word, only has so much meaning as humanity gives it. Same with myth. Myth is a myth. Your idea of myth is a myth. Your idea of philosophy and the rules of logic inherent within it are a myth. It could be that your understanding of reality is a myth and in the end reality is the only truth because it is a construct of some higher power. You can never conceptualize anything without conceiving myth. Any and all products of human reason are myth. Ergo your statement is pointless.

I'm going to have to agree with Phaedrus on this one and tell you to come back when you have something pertinent to say.

[Hitta]

Redundant statement. Language in and of itself is myth therefore you can never speak without speaking in myth. Reality, the word, only has so much meaning as humanity gives it. Same with myth. Myth is a myth. Your idea of myth is a myth. Your idea of philosophy and the rules of logic inherent within it are a myth. It could be that your understanding of reality is a myth and in the end reality is the only truth because it is a construct of some higher power. You can never conceptualize anything without conceiving myth. Any and all products of human reason are myth. Ergo your statement is pointless.

I'm going to have to agree with Phaedrus on this one and tell you to come back when you have something pertinent to say.

That is the point I was trying to make. Our whole realm of thought and human spectrum is based on assumptions. Even our acceptance of this perception of reality(through our senses) and our acceptance of self(we have no idea if we exist). There is infinite possibilites, as we live in a perception of assumed infinites via subjectivity(truth relativism). Is there a real truth that we can't comprehend at this stage through our current perspective or is life really a nihilistic mess. There really is no definite purpose in our existence, there is no meaning. We have our own subjective purposes, but whether or not they coincide with absolute truth(or whether or not absolute truth exists) we do not know. Its as if we are the toddler in a playpen.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

[Hitta]

So is that another assumption?

Well of course it is. Everything is. We don't know anything. We don't know if we know if we know if we know if we know if we know(to infinity). We don't know if we don't know if we don't know(to infinity). We don't know anything(we don't even know that). The human mind cannot think without making an assumption.

[tcaudilllg]

Well of course it is. Everything is. We don't know anything. We don't know if we know if we know if we know if we know if we know(to infinity). We don't know if we don't know if we don't know(to infinity). We don't know anything(we don't even know that). The human mind cannot think without making an assumption.

That may be but, some people are better at making assumptions than you.

@jxrtes:
Hitta's contribution was his making us aware of it. And his view of things in utter positive/negative terms was quite frankly a revolution in thought not unlike Einstein's relativity.

In any event, you have to give him credit for actually making sense of something in those Babelfished articles.

[Wynch]

Right, I'm not going to bother quoting you, we know what I'm talking about.

While I understand the sociological underpinnings of this +/- construct you're described and I think it is structurally sound, I have difficulty seeing how it contributes directly to the application of the info metabolism itself. I feel as thought you've abstracted it just a little too far in your application to the broader context and are having difficulties pulling it back to the core concept. I want to understand how your model and theory itself actually functions, not in the applicable sense, but in the nature of it's system. Is there any way that we can chat about this on AIM or something later on in the day? I live in EST and I work until after 5, but perhaps you can PM me with a way for us to discuss this in real time. I'm interested in learning about your idea, but I think it would work best for both of us if we can discuss it directly rather than in an essay format such as this where we're easily side-tracked from the essentials of our individual ideas and understanding.

[Logos]

Reality is a myth.

Did anyone else open this thread expect to be shown a magic trick only to be disappointed? I know I did.

[Wynch]

Did anyone else open this thread expect to be shown a magic trick only to be disappointed? I know I did.

Yeah

[crazedrat]

woa, even cooler picture logos

[tcaudilllg]

Dude, if you must preach something then preach the gospel of Supersocion theory, which you yourself have sired.

[tcaudilllg]

I've always been curious to know exactly how much of hitta's influence has shaped supersocion theory?

It was his dedication to the cause of making Model B known, which caused me to rethink. When he put up a chart showing his ideas -- that the world is made up of positive and negative forces -- I realized right then and there that he was offering a glimpse into the world "below the veil". Positive/negative lends to light vs darkness: it was a striking thing to see two Tis and two Tes, that were in opposition to each other. I already knew that somehow the 7th function moved itself into a sort of advisory or filtrating position ; but when I observed Hitta's thinking I intuitively knew that those elements, if rearranged, could support each other.

What hitta's contribution really was, was to consider +Te and -Ti in the same function. We'd heard of + and - before as "long range" and "short range", but it all seemed very arbitrary to us because we hadn't been shown Model B itself. Hitta's arrangement of "long range" and "short range" as a revision of Model A, along with the underlying negative vs positive philosophy, was the lense through which I observed that the postulation of various symmetrical dynamics between those parts would uncover the workings of the mind. I postulated that anything that held true for the functions in the metabolism type observed by classical socionics would hold also for the exertion type I had already derived from the crosstype theory, and thus was capable of validating various hypotheses in specific cases.

The assertion that I have found what has historically been called "God" (though perhaps Star Wars Force concept is more apt) is the observation of harmony between opposite signed aspects not only existing in the mind as a relation of information, but also as a person-independent relationship between energies that are similarly signed. (although, it is the dualization of those energies which maintains their development and keeps the cosmos humming. The harmony just allows the energies to flow productively. The point is that this energy has a will of its own).