first of all go fuck urself. i never said that i knew anything about the situation- i was actually asking u about the situation and y u were pissed- stop putting words in my mouth like u always fucking do.Originally Posted by niffweed17
first of all go fuck urself. i never said that i knew anything about the situation- i was actually asking u about the situation and y u were pissed- stop putting words in my mouth like u always fucking do.
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
He's aware. That's his problem with your post. You were "blindly" posting in a topic you know nothing about.
The reason he's "pissed" is laid out very clearly on the first page of this thread. You obviously took the time to post without taking the time to read. That annoyed him.
He didn't put words in your mouth. He assumed you were ignorant of the content of this thread, and according to your own post, he was correct.
Last edited by duality is cringe; 08-03-2008 at 04:30 AM.
touchy touchy.....
Nope, it's the alphas!
Jane, you ignorant slut.Nope, it's the alphas!
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Remember to vote on the hostility thread
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
i actually did read the first page and i dont see what the big deal is about. he's new so his descriptions on the gamma page aren't written maliciously... he just doesn't know that much about socionics yet.
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
i'm sorry; they are clearly written maliciously.
at first glance perhaps they simply appear stupid and idiotic, but i think hoodrat has done way, way more than enough to demonstrate that, whether or not he claims these were written in jest, that he holds an inordinately prejudiced and absurd view of socionics.
what in particularly i find intolerable is his tendency to treat anyone who he perceives as not gamma as his clear and unequivocal enemy... see the "fuck alphas" thread.
a more personal example of why i'm furious at him lies in his personal treatment of me. in the interest of full disclosure, i will post a large portion of the text conversation i had with him here (hoodrat has forfeit any concern i might have had about his privacy):
character limit, next post(13:03:20) < hey, what's up?
(13:03:20) > the nihil perseveres
(13:03:29) < it's hoodrat from the16types forum/wikisocion
(13:09:28) > all right
(13:10:54) > so, given the way that you've dealt with me so far
(13:10:58) > why should i deign to talk to you?
(13:12:56) > i'm going to assume that you got all of these messages and are proceeding to do what you usually do
(13:14:29) < hey
(13:14:33) < lol
(13:14:39) < "dealt with you"
(13:14:45) < you started attacking me on my thread so i got mad at you
(13:14:48) < but i'm over it now, so it's cool
(13:14:54) > i did no such thing
(13:14:56) < but why didn't you like what i said on the gamma page on wikisocion?
(13:15:04) < well, i forget, i'd have to look it up
(13:15:07) < but it doesn't really matter anymore
(13:15:08) > i asked you what your reasoning for your typing was
(13:15:12) < ohhh
(13:15:16) < I remember now
(13:15:19) > you basically responded by shitting me out on it
(13:15:23) < okay, yeah, i'll answer you now
(13:15:24) < yeah, my bad
(13:15:27) < sorry lol
(13:15:35) < i was in a good mood so i felt badass
(13:15:40) < but yeah, about my typing
(13:15:41) < ummm
(13:15:51) < i'm like pretty damn sure i've experienced duality with definate ILIs in my life
(13:15:54) < a couple of them
(13:16:04) < then i checked to see an ILIs dual
(13:16:09) < and i thought i fit the description
(13:16:12) < so i'm kinda rollin with it
(13:16:25) > yes, so i surmised
(13:16:28) < lol
(13:16:35) > then there was the rather extensive PM which was sent
(13:16:43) < oh yeah, that too
(13:16:43) > the nihil perseveres
(13:16:45) > and ignored for several weeks
(13:16:54) < you sent me a pm???
(13:17:01) < i thought you were referring to the one i sent the other night...
(13:17:05) < umm, i didn't know that... lol
(13:17:09) > as well as fellow compatriots who
(13:17:10) < yeah, i'm bad with like pm's and stuff like that
(13:17:19) > reported similar situations
(13:17:35) < yeah, i suspect some of the ILIs on there aren't really ILIs
(13:17:36) < like
(13:17:43) < i think crazedrat is iei
(13:17:44) > a number of them are not
(13:17:49) < warlord is ili i'm pretty sure
(13:17:50) > yeah you are correct there
(13:17:52) < umm i forget the rest
(13:17:56) > warlord is probably not ILI either
(13:17:59) < really? hmm
(13:18:06) > i could give you a rather detailed repository if you were interested
(13:18:09) < well, his jokes make me laugh like an ILIs does sometime
(13:18:11) > or you could just look at the list
(13:18:14) < that's alright, i'll take your word for it
(13:18:18) < yeah, i saw your list on wikisocion
(13:18:23) < it was pretty good i thought
(13:18:44) < do you feel pretty confident about your typings?
(13:18:46) > respectfully, how the hell would you know?
(13:18:50) < like in general
(13:18:50) > the nihil perseveres
(13:18:51) > you've been here all of two weeks
(13:18:52) < not just on the forums
(13:19:06) < i liked your reasoning
(13:19:11) > well different typings carry different information and consequently sort of
(13:19:11) < that's how i would know
(13:19:16) > different amounts of confidence
(13:19:25) < but yeah, i've been on the forums for two weeks
(13:19:29) < but i've been studying socionics for like a year
(13:19:32) < coming up in ohh... i dunno
(13:19:34) < this fall or something
(13:19:42) < pretty rigorously
(13:19:46) > so have you been lurking all that time or what?
(13:19:49) < well, not really
(13:20:00) < i found some old forums of the16types a while back and i thought they were dead
(13:20:09) < and i saw like "sweet, i'm studying a dead art" lol
(13:20:14) > yeah
(13:20:16) > thank mcnew
(13:20:23) < then i found the16types and thought i'd learn something if i joined it
(13:20:29) < thank you mcnew
(13:20:40) < i mean, the new16types
(13:20:54) < but yeah, i found socionics by stumble upon - the firefox add-on. heard of it?
(13:20:55) > now repeat that for the next 50 days and he might reward you with a user award
(13:21:04) > yes i have heard of it
(13:21:05) < whoop whoop! lol alright, will do
(13:21:17) > or you could just request the award now
(13:21:20) < yeah, well it brought me across socionics.com because i had psychology as one of my interests
(13:21:21) > and wait for mcnew to ignore it
(13:21:23) < then duality interested me
(13:21:32) < then i realized the full application of socioncis and i was like "sweet...."
(13:21:47) < hahah, i've never seen any of his posts to be honest at, where does he usually write at?
(13:21:56) > he's the admin
(13:21:59) < sweet
(13:22:09) > and that you have not seen his posts is the problem
(13:22:11) > well, part of it
(13:22:24) < what's that? what problem?
(13:22:24) > that he is the admin is the other part of it
(13:22:28) < ohhhh
(13:22:31) < that he like, isn't there?
(13:22:33) < and he should be?
(13:22:36) < being as he's the admin and all?
(13:22:39) > well look at the site discussions section of the forum right now
(13:22:50) < k
(13:22:52) > it is rather plagued by people asking for simple bugfixes
(13:23:07) > and basically bitching to no end about how mcnew has abandoned the forum
(13:23:10) < and there's basically nobody to listen to them?
(13:23:10) > the nihil perseveres
(13:23:12) < lol sweet....
(13:23:17) < why doesn't he pass the torch along?
(13:23:25) > that is an excellent question
(13:23:34) > you might pose it to him in the hope of receiving a more satisfactory answer
(13:23:39) > actually not really; he'd ignore you
(13:23:48) < hahahah
(13:23:51) < what an asshole
(13:23:54) > so i'll tell you the answer: he bit off more than he can chew
(13:23:55) < i like this mcnew guy
(13:23:55) < lol
(13:23:56) > way more
(13:24:01) < not really, but yeah
(13:24:02) < that sucks
(13:24:12) > eh the fact that he's not around has
(13:24:28) > sort of made me feel slightly more comfortable coming back to the forum more regularly
(13:24:29) <
(13:24:40) < the fact that he isn't around?
(13:24:43) > he and i have something of a history of disagreement
(13:24:48) < uh - oh :x
...
(13:34:06) < have you ever heard of shenmue?
(13:34:10) > no
(13:34:12) < hmm
(13:34:16) < it was amazing
(13:34:18) < came out on dreamcast
(13:34:22) < shenmue I and II
(13:34:30) < shenmue II only released on european and jap dreamcast
(13:34:34) < but they ported it to american xbox
(13:34:38) < therefor i got an xbox... haha
(13:34:48) < but yeah... completely immersive story and environment
(13:34:50) < this game is huge
character limit, next post(13:34:56) < you could like... open and search through any drawer
(13:35:00) < flip any light switch
(13:35:12) < it was like my replacement for a social life in middle school, hahah
(13:35:22) < or the early years of high school anyway
(13:35:34) < anyway, where was i going with that you ask?
(13:35:36) < lol
(13:35:49) < people with modded xboxs did all kinds of cool stuff with shenmue II... yeah
(13:36:27) > OOO is not available for xbox
(13:36:29) > end of story
(13:36:50) < lol :X
(13:36:50) > the nihil perseveres
(13:36:53) < wait, what's ooo?
(13:37:00) > oscuro's oblivion overhaul
(13:37:30) < ..... about all that.... lol
(13:37:34) < sounds awesome?
(13:37:39) < yeah, i love some pc game mods
(13:37:45) < they really add to replayability
(13:38:01) < hey, you aren't on thefacebook by chance are you?
...
(13:44:12) < sorry for being mean on the forums earlier
(13:44:14) < do you forgive me?
(13:45:04) < don't answer in the next second if the answer is yes....
(13:45:08) < alright, sweet, that's good
(13:45:10) < i feel much better now
(13:45:16) > well
(13:45:22) < too late!
(13:45:23) < lol
(13:46:08) > everything that you had done prior to yesterday
(13:46:14) > or two days ago, whatever
(13:46:51) > when SUDDENLY something happened like me reverting your ridiculous wikisocion edits that made you come into contact with me
(13:47:01) > under what appeared to be entirely self-serving purposes
(13:47:28) < lol my edits were not ridiculous. they were entirely true and sincere
(13:47:28) > the nihil perseveres
(13:47:41) < nothing but factual information
(13:47:47) < after hours of research
(13:47:48) > prior to that every indication of your presence was entirely alienating to myself and to a number of other like-minded compatriots, who are basically all ILIs
(13:47:50) < did i compose that glory
(13:47:52) > umm
(13:48:07) < ;D
(13:48:09) > these are your edits
(13:48:14) > "Some people are cool. Others are lame. Other people we can "get along with." And some people are just fucking assholes. That reminds me, don't step on our toes or you'll probably regret it for all eternity. "
(13:48:23) > "Gammas are amazing and incredible. Other quadras probably don't realize this, but that's okay because it's true. By the way, whoever said that gammas value sex and money are 100% correct... Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably trying to sell you something. "
(13:48:32) < hahaha
(13:48:38) > "Gammas are usually well respected in our social circles. That's because we are awesome, duh. It probably also has to do with the fact that we don't hang out with people who suck and are lame.... "
(13:48:41) < you don't want that to represent you? sheesh
(13:48:45) > literally, i'm not kidding
(13:48:47) > this is what you wrote
(13:48:53) < oh no, i rememebr
(13:49:00) > i would have probably done this to you to spite you
(13:49:05) > but i didn't have to
(13:49:15) > nobody can tell me that reverting shit like that is illegitimate
(13:49:28) < lol, yeah
(13:49:32) < i was probably just trying to get a rise
(13:49:32) > the nihil perseveres
(13:49:40) < mission accomplished, somewhat... lol
(13:49:48) > well not really
(13:50:01) > i think to the extent that everything you've done sort of has had an alienating influence
(13:50:06) > this did as well
(13:50:09) < well, it gave me a way to get into contact with you? isn't that great? aren't you happy i've done it?
(13:50:17) > i'm not sure yet
(13:50:22) <
(13:50:25) > but shit like this makes me
(13:50:29) > not want to associate with you
(13:50:40) > perhaps its sort of
(13:50:42) <
(13:50:54) > more in a jesting manner than i originally interpreted it, simply because i dont know you
(13:51:03) < it's completely in jest!
(13:51:11) < that's the point
(13:51:14) > well yeah i get that its in jest
(13:51:17) > but its just
(13:51:19) > stupid
(13:51:30) < well, in my defense
(13:51:38) > and frankly, and i'm not usually the one to say this either
(13:51:38) < i thought it was me having fun and being who i am
(13:51:41) > but its also offensive
(13:51:47) < so in that way, it kinda does give people an insight into part of gamma....
(13:51:54) < assuming i am gamma of course
(13:51:59) > yes, assuming
(13:52:12) < i guess that's all we have on this kinda stuff anyway though.. is assumption
(13:52:27) > no i'm not disputing that you're gamma
(13:52:33) > at least not at this point in time
(13:52:40) > but i do think that
(13:52:49) > you were way out of line
(13:52:55) < fair enough
(13:53:00) < yeah, i'll probably try and chill
(13:53:02) < i've had my fun
(13:53:13) < so you forgive me?
(13:53:35) > it's difficult not to
(13:53:39) <
(13:53:41) > but it also is an aspect of
(13:54:04) > i wont exactly forget both the respect which you initially showed me and others
(13:54:15) < fair enough
(13:54:15) > nor contributions of this caliber
(13:54:27) > which have not been limited to the wiki
(13:54:32) < :/
(13:54:36) > although i think your edits to the SEE page were certainly productive enough
(13:54:45) < i'm sorry, i get kinda carried away on forums and all kinds of internet stuff
(13:54:48) < i'm not this rude in real life
(13:55:00) < it's just so impersonal and there's no real repurcussions of my actions, i just let loose
(13:55:17) < if people start being jerks or making me feel bad, i can just stop checking that thread or whatever
(13:55:18) < it's awesome
(13:55:25) < it's kind of a way to let off steam in real life for me
(13:55:39) < but yeah, i thought i'd try and help out with what i want... being expanding wikisocion
(13:55:39) > if you want to maintain the ability to simply leave when things go bad
(13:55:48) > i'd suggest you leave immediately
(13:55:56) > before you get hooked on this stuff
(13:56:00) < hahahah
(13:56:03) < i think it's already happening
(13:56:08) < it's cool, i can take it
(13:56:13) < i need this to learn socionics
(13:56:22) < i think talking with other people about it can be helpful
(13:56:27) < so i'll probably hang around for a while
(13:56:52) < until i feel confident about my typings anyway
(13:57:00) < then i'll probably just check around and be pleasant compan from time to time
(13:57:14) > we shall see
(13:57:27) > sometimes i sort of get a little bit complacent with this kind of think
(13:57:28) < you're such an ILI
(13:57:34) < "we'll see" "maybe" "probably"
(13:57:35) < lol
(13:57:39) > i dont always realize that people are not as stagnant as i
(13:57:45) < not criticizing
(13:57:48) < lol, just commenting
(13:57:53) > but even so i've seen it happened with SEEs before
(13:58:10) > getting far more hooked on this subject -- or more accurately, this community -- than they would care to be
(13:58:20) < yeah, i hear you
(13:58:26) < well, back in the day it would be easier
(13:58:26) > the nihil perseveres
(13:58:35) < but i try and get out with people a lot more now a day
(13:58:36) < in real life
(13:58:45) < i just check internet stuff like this when i'm "studying" lol
(13:59:00) < just pop a ritalin and a caffeine pill and sit back and read
(13:59:06) < which, by the way, i dunno if you've tried that
(13:59:24) > probably wouldnt do a lot for me
(13:59:26) < but stimulants really help me to understand my "weak" IM elements a lot better
(13:59:29) < probably not
(13:59:35) < it seems like most ILIs can concentrate pretty well
(13:59:49) < all fucking smart asses
(13:59:56) > yeah its not like my understanding or ability to interpret socionics would depend on it
(14:00:01) < i hear ya
(14:00:06) < i really need it sometime
(14:00:16) < some of those descriptions are just so damn objective
(14:00:22) < all this abstract shit... it's hard
(14:00:29) > it shouldnt be
(14:00:36) < i need descriptions like "he's funny" "she's a jerk" blah blah
(14:00:37) < lol
(14:00:37) > if its too hard, you're probably doing something wrong
(14:00:42) < naa, it's not too hard
(14:00:43) < i'm just bitching
(14:00:56) > well i cant read your mind but
(14:01:02) > its a legitimate point that
(14:01:09) > a lot of people tend to abstractify this stuff to death
(14:01:11) > to the point where
(14:01:13) < yeah
(14:01:14) > idk its just meaningless
(14:01:19) <yup
(14:01:25) < i have to like...study it reallly really hard
(14:01:29) > i generally try to deal with those people as little as possible
(14:01:33) < but i'm interested in it so it's cool, i can do that
(14:01:54) < the abstractors?
(14:01:54) < lol, yeah
(14:01:59) < i LOVE how rick explains things
(14:02:04) > yes
(14:02:06) < i think he really makes it digestable for all types
(14:02:09) > what i tell people is that
(14:02:11) < better than anyone i've seen
(14:02:14) > well no he doesnt
(14:02:28) > i've seen Fe types chew his head off for his communication style
(14:02:38) < i can relate to some people's typings a lot better than others
[/quote](14:02:43) > like it has no effect sor tof
(14:02:58) > but what i tell people is that
(14:03:00) < not typings... i meant articles
(14:03:02) > socionics is fundamentally simple
(14:03:15) < i like it that way... haha
(14:03:17) > all of the things it deals with are basically right in front of you
(14:03:29) > and if you try to overthink it you are very likely to get things wrong
(14:03:38) > you dont need to do any of this bullshit
(14:03:38) < hmm
(14:03:43) > in order to be able to understand it
(14:03:47) < good advice....
(14:03:57) < it's all been about real life experience for me
(14:03:59) < it's crazy
(14:04:03) < like, i'll be hanging out with people
(14:04:06) < and they'll say or do something
(14:04:13) < then i'll just see flashes of these articles i've read in my mind
(14:04:20) < and it's just like "BAM"
(14:04:21) < lol
(14:04:29) < and i'm think to myself "socionics is sweet" lol
(14:04:41) > well even those can be misleading sometimes
(14:04:47) > evidently you will see for yourself sort of the
(14:04:51) > best-fit method
(14:04:59) > which is rightly employed
(14:05:15) > which often stems from contradictory or inaccurately self-reported information
(14:05:18) > or insufficient information
(14:05:35) > but thats kind of the way people have to gather their ideas
(14:05:51) > the arena that i'm most familiar with is that of typing various forum members
(14:05:58) > and the practices associated with that
(14:06:11) > although obviously i've also done a lot of dabbling in other areas
(14:06:11) < yeah, you seem good at it
(14:06:18) < or people respect you at it at least
(14:06:23) > well, some people
(14:06:23) < it seems
(14:06:51) > there are probably very very few people that both understand socionics and have the capacity to think for themselves
(14:06:52) < a lot of people have their typings wrong though i think
(14:06:55) < and it's funny
(14:06:56) < lol
(14:07:02) > from my perspective, rick is one and all the others are gamma NTs
(14:07:03) < yeah
(14:07:06) > or else are insane
(14:07:23) < hahahah
(14:07:28) < yup.
(14:07:42) > its hardly funny so much as just sad
(14:07:43) < it's fun to mingle with them though
(14:07:47) < hahaha
(14:07:54) > to deal with people that are as braindead as they seem
(14:07:55) < yeah, it is sad
(14:07:58) < but you can't help those people
(14:08:06) < just smile and go about what you were doing
(14:08:06) < lol
(14:08:18) > i find that impossible
(14:08:42) < ahh... the ILI's dilemma
(14:08:42) > the nihil perseveres
(14:08:43) < hahah
(14:08:56) < that's cool
(14:09:00) < well, don't let it frustrate you too much then
(14:09:13) > i have been letting it frustrate me too much for years
(14:09:25) < that sucks
(14:09:27) < lol
(14:09:32) < it sounds like you have them figured out though...
(14:09:36) < completely self-unaware idiots
(14:09:42) < so think of them as that
(14:09:50) > well i kind of do think of them as that
(14:09:52) < and yourself as like....a mind amongst the masses
(14:09:57) > its sort of disconcerting to think that
(14:10:05) < kinda floating along giving people hints
(14:10:09) > like youre the only person that actually understands anything
(14:10:20) > its incredibly arrogant, and i always sort of feel like
(14:10:23) < well... you don't have to think that
(14:10:24) > it doesnt give anybody any credit
(14:10:27) < just know it i guess
(14:10:36) < so you don't get frustrated?? i guess... i dunno of that came out right
(14:10:42) < any of my last 20 messages, lol
(14:10:50) > yeah well
(14:10:58) > theres probably not anything you could say that would do anything anyway
(14:10:59) > so
(14:11:08) < i guess not
(14:11:11) < thus is life though, right?
(14:11:18) > evidently
(14:11:21) < hahah
(14:11:27) < "boo hoo, how depressing"
(14:11:28) < lol
(14:11:32) < naa, just roll with it
...
(14:21:30) < i feel like ILIs have it bad compared to the other types
(14:21:40) < i mean on one hand they're all smart and can see everything and all that
(14:21:51) < but like 2 out of the 3 ILIs i know are really depressed
(14:22:06) < and it sucks because they're usually such good people deep down inside
(14:22:09) < once you get to know them
(14:22:18) < make great friends
(14:22:25) < won't ever fuck you over or anything
(14:22:38) < always there to help you when you need it... give you advice...etc
(14:22:43) < but yeah, i like duality
(14:22:46) < it's like a mutual symbiosis
...
(14:25:13) < but yeah, it seems like we're cool now
(14:25:14) < i'm glad
(14:25:34) < sorry about all the b.s. again
(14:25:45) < hopefully i convinced you a little more of my SEE-ness
(14:25:49) < maybe not... i dunno, lol
(14:25:53) < but yeah, that's me
...
(14:33:28) < damn!!! your message is amazing
(14:33:28) > the nihil perseveres
(14:33:41) < i'll patch things over, don't worry
(14:33:47) < lol
(14:33:48) < but yeah
(14:34:04) <
even more ironically, a large number of people in this community (not uniformly, but that's a whole other story) see me as a rather unequivocal example of ILI and in all likelihood will begin to doubt your self typing of SEE as a result of your miscommunications with me.
(14:34:09) < i did indeed!
(14:34:15) < and your post is very straight-forward and lucid
(14:34:19) < message"*
(14:34:23) < props, lol
(14:34:30) > thanks
(14:35:12) < so yeah, that's what you meant by my refusal to communicate
(14:35:13) < those messages
(14:35:17) < i was like "wtf is he talking about??"
(14:35:18) < lol
(14:35:31) > well that coupled with
(14:35:37) > "i dont think i like niffweed"
(14:35:48) <
the tone of this message rather clearly is somewhat amicable, with hoodrat attempting to atone for his previous sins, so to speak.
then suddenly in contradiction to everything said here, i'm an alpha NT, and suddenly i'm his enemy. i am not so concerned about being typed as an alpha NT -- that, at least, i could attribute to hoodrat's inexperience.
but the fact that the first message i got from hoodrat after this exchange:
I'm reverting the gamma domain back to my additions from Niffweed's "policing."
I say that at least one or two other gammas should honestly object to my additions before we remove it again.... not just the "gamma" niffweed. --Hoodrat 07:17, 1 August 2008 (BST)
EVERTHING you say absolutely SCREAMS with Introverted Logic.
Order....Clarity..... Evaluation.....Reason....
Stay out of our domain alpha. Don't flatter youreself. You're no ILI.--Hoodrat 08:40, 1 August 2008 (BST)
p.s. I find it interesting that a lot of people probably think you're ILI based on the descriptions YOU wrote on wikisocion...
pps. isn't it obvious we're conflictors?--Hoodrat 08:42, 1 August 2008 (BST)automatically, he assumes that he is 100% correct, that because i am alpha i have absolutely nothing to contribute, and in so doing shows how he truly feels about non-gammas. this two-sidedness is precisely what in his description alienated me the first time and caused me to revert it.
Oppose
- Niffweed is unaware of his own type, and his Se Role function could lead him to make rash decisions in terms of administration that would be uninformed and everyone would later regret. --Hoodrat 09:53, 1 August 2008 (BST)
that he now would be so idiotic as to ignore the rather productive discussion above, and instead blindly decree -- on the basis of my type (especially for the RfA) -- that i have nothing valuable to contribute whatsoever is completely unacceptable.
but what truly makes me furious is that he has the audacity to build up my trust and then bash it down.
hoodrat is NOT a nice person. he is a moron, an asshole who makes a point of being elitist to the point of considering other quadras to be his mere slaves, and a guy who has no fucking idea what he's going on about.
and i will never forgive his transgressions personally.
Hows anything he has written essentially any different from what you are saying in this part:
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
I'm glad that someone else spotted that too.
And personally I seriously disagree with his opinions. For starters both you and Logos (despite that I had some heated discussions with him) are great examples of the opposite.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Do note that in his more thoughtful subjective analyses in the wiki, niffweed does say that others besides Rick and Gamma NTs understand socionics.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
mostly its a general commentary on how poor i believe the general forum understanding is rather an analysis of anything or anyone specific.
basically, yes, there are people who have fairly good understandings who are not gammas. in my opinion, rick and other gamma NTs have the most detailed and sensible and comprehensive understandings of socionics. many of the people (perhaps hoodrat is gamma as well, and thus clearly excluded from the "gammas" who have strong understandings) who are not gamma have insensible or absurd interpretations, but that doesn't under any circumstances mean that everybody is necessarily phaedrus.
in order to really say much more i'd have to talk more specifically rather than in these rather broad generalities -- in particular about how certain people's understandings of socionics are influenced by their types. as expat mentioned, the subjective analysis page is a partial attempt to do this.
This is really weird, Niffweed seems to be criticising someone for thinking only Gammas understand socionics, but then this is what Niffweed says himself. Sounds kinda like Fi seeking on Niffweeds part to try iron out his principles somewhat. Or am I not understanding socionics by making this possible observation? I dunno.
to be fair, i think there is a difference between saying that gamma NTs have the most typically sensible understanding of socionics and that people who aren't gamma are "fucking lame" and perceiving them as basically people who shouldn't ever be acknowledged.
the comment was most closely linked to a sense of general forum idiocy. i think there are forum idiots of nearly every type, but i'm not sure i can think of any that i'd describe as gamma NTs.
in a sense i feel sort of conflicted on this issue -- on one hand, i realize how pompous and arrogant it sounds to say something like "me and five other people, all gamma NTs, are the only people that actually understand socionics." i dont think i can really make such a statement in good conscience. but, even so, i tend to see more evidence that even those people whose interpretations i respect from other quadras come up with sort of these increasingly insensible ideas from time to time... i suppose i see gamma NTs doing this a lot less often.
for example, hotelambush, who i think has on numerous occasions demonstrated his knowledge about socionics, has in a few instances contributed to the over-arching sense of poorly argued and utterly nonsense ideas that get thrown around. with hotelambush in particular, i would attribute this tendency at least in part to his type; rather, what it reminds me of is some of the enneagram descriptions of E5 that i've been reading recently (even if hotel is not E5). in particular, what they suggest is that 5s can tend to be drawn towards their own "crazy interpretations" without really being able to differentiate reality from the stupid ideas in their mind.
typings such as allie as ESI on the basis of "she makes statements about likes/dislikes, an Fi trait" (i'm paraphrasing an argument that doesn't make sense to me, so perhaps it doesn't do it justice but.... regardless, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense) are to me sort of based on discrete factoids that really are not in the slightest accurate in terms of how allie comports herself. in this sense it seems to me like hotel is imposing a logical structure that is more about the structure than it is what's actually going on -- akin to the neutral to unhealthy 5 that these enneagram descriptions talk about.
i could talk about a few similar examples that hotelambush has brought up which make equally no sense to me for similar reasons, such as force my hand as beta ST or eunice as a likely SEI (although the latter i'm not sure where hotel actually stands).
for this kind of reason, i think that this sort of mistype is at least partly based on hotelambush's type. my point is i suppose that everybody offers up ideas that make no sense at certain times; i suppose i do as well, although from what i've seen it seems to me like the "wrong ideas" of gamma NTs are often well explained and well justified, even when wrong. i can think of two examples to the contrary, both from old incarnations of isha's userlist, and one of them was marked with the lowest possible confidence rating.
That view of other Gamma NTs having a correct understanding of Socionics probably does have more to with type, since you would be more comfortable and understanding of their approaches to the matter than with those of other types, like thehostelambush who seems to be more willing to entertain ideas that do not conform superbly with Socionics.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
sure; i would agree.
Okay, first of all I didn't read most of the posts in this thread as it's a bunch of long winded explanations of blah blah crap that I don't care about. It has nothing to do with my REAL life or my purposes for joining this forum....
I just got on to give niffweed a message:
I have creativeremember? Hello.... Sorry for hurting your feelings or whatever by "stabbing you in the back"... but that's what creative
HOWEVER EVERYONE ELSE NOTE THIS WARNING!!!:
If you are seriously interested in learning socionics I recommend that you form the foundation of your opinions ON YOUR OWN, not on other people's typings and "assumed knowledge" based simply upon how much of their life they've wasted on this poor excuse for a social life....
Read MULTIPLE DESCRIPTIONS and soak in as much information as you can, especially from rick's site, socionics.us. Don't accept anything at face value and always keep an open mind.... Even though this doesn't effect me personally and I shouldn't care, it still bothers me a little that a misinformed few are probably misleading lots of potential socionics students with their misinformation on wikisocion.....
I certainly will not be learning Socionics from you in any case.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
yes, to make a complete ass of yourself, clearly
you have just proven beyond any shadow of any doubt to anybody that has a brain enough to read that you are not only braindead as hell, you are a fucking miscreant and a sorry excuse for a human being. you deserve nothing less than universal fucking derision for your manner of treating people. i guarantee you that if you stay anywhere near socionics i will do my utmost to make your life as miserable as i possibly can. i am not going anywhere.I just got on to give niffweed a message:
I have creative
i am reporting this post as a grounds for banning because i believe you to be a fucking evil person far more reprehensible than anyone who is presently banned. it probably won't happen, but i can try.
I'm not impressed.
She did not say it to impress you.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
how is the above creativeI have creative
please explain
INTp
sx/sp
Wanna know an obvious secret that you alphas don't seem to grasp? None of my real duals have responded with "OMG THAT'S SO HORRIBLE HE'S EVIL!!!, I'm telling the ADMIN on you!! wahh! cry!!!"
Do you know why?
to quote wikisocion's article on duality in friendships:
"Things that dual partners do that are cruel or mean-hearted in the eyes of external observers are often passed over as meaningless by the other partner."
YOU ARE AN ALPHA. ACCEPT IT. I don't want you to like me. I don't give a shit if you like me. And I care even less if people want to learn socionics from me. If you don't want to be honest with yourself that's your own business....
However, if you are so caught up in the triviality and process of things that you can't see the big picture of socionics and the socion (e.g. Alpha and Gamma are SUPPOSED TO DISAGREE), then I really feel sorry for you.
You waste so much time and energy and emotion on trying to punish me, while failing to see the fact that you have no ABILITY to punish me. I easily avoid bad feelings. I don't respect authority and structure. You have no control over me.
This is my last response to this thread.
??????????
o. so everyone you dislike or can't get along with is automatically alpha?
that's ridiculous.
load of crap. who says people from alpha and gamma have to disagree all the time.
stop making senseless generalizations.
INTp
sx/sp
good, get the fuck out.
::sigh:: Like all such matters, this situation looks to me to be a mass of conflicting perceptions. Since I am incapable of discerning which has the greater degree of truth, the best course is to step back and refrain from taking an opinion.
It appears to me that the categorical nature of Socionics does very little to promote acceptance. While I suppose it can be a useful frame of reference, it appears to me that many times on this site, some forget that it is only an artificial construct, and may or may not be an absolute reality... Whatever. That is going off the point.
Thank you, people.
And this, too, shall pass away.
ILI
Why did you type hoodrat as a ESE, didn't you get into the same kind of stupid interaction with liveandletlive (or whatever her name is)?
ἀταραξία
and he also complained hoodrat mistyped him and imposed his opinion onto him, yet he goes on to suggest phaedrus is not an ILI (which he is...)
and like the above guy just said, he did the same dumb thing to liveandletlive.
he also does it to me ..
what a fag!
yeah, i used the cliche.
he also tries to act like he knows alot about socionics, but i don't think i've ever read something he's written in articles or something like that which enlightened my view of the world ... where there are alphas like tcaud and gammas like phaedrus who do this kind of thing, and are far superior to him in their understanding of socionics.
just rehashing his opinions about peoples types, and trying as hard as he can to make it sound like these opinions are the laws of the universe because they come from greater understanding (they are whispered to him from god)
Last edited by crazedrat; 08-03-2008 at 07:10 PM.
read the thread. everything that hoodrat has written is quoted exactly.
hoodrat is the one here who does not realize that. he contacted me initially because of my edits to his wiki page which failed to recognize that, and this conflict escalated because of his rather stark attitude change when he suddenly decided that i was LII. hoodrat is the one who is biased in basing his perceptions off of socionics, not i.It appears to me that the categorical nature of Socionics does very little to promote acceptance. While I suppose it can be a useful frame of reference, it appears to me that many times on this site, some forget that it is only an artificial construct, and may or may not be an absolute reality... Whatever. That is going off the point.
who says i typed hoodrat as ESE?
believe me, i have noted the parallels and i think it's a reasonable suggestion that hoodrat is SEE. that doesn't make me any more predisposed to believing that he's not a complete fucking asshole.
i'd also consider EIE, but i'm not sure we're going to get the chance.
nvm, I though you where calling him a dual-of-machintruc. But I was wrong, carry on...
ἀταραξία
I see what you mean, Niffweed. I have to say, I feel rather sad to observe the vibration Hoodrat is giving off.
Would it be possible to move the content of wikisocion to a more secure area? Or is there a specific reason to keep it open?
Not that I want to take sides, but I find my respect gravitates toward Niff. I just would think it more prudent to find a practical method of resolving this.
And this, too, shall pass away.
ILI
i called crazedrat that, who i think might be EIE.
that wikisocion is editable by anyone is ultimately a more productive way of ensuring a broad range of content. dealing with people like hoodrat is a necessary consequence of having wikis that can be freely edited.
it has certainly done no harm for wikipedia as being a generally highly reliable source of information. the people who are very interested in vandalizing the page for george w bush are generally very minimally interested in vandalizing the page on william howard taft, or on tiger stadium, or on clotrimazole.
I see... Makes sense.
So... in general, your best bet is to try to put a pin in his ego?
And this, too, shall pass away.
ILI
you're probably talking about one of the most introverted people you know.
stop talking about me. it is retarded, and it annoys me. block my messages k? then forget i am here
or ban him.I see... Makes sense.
So... in general, your best bet is to try to put a pin in his ego?
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