Role Function

[Sirena]

Maybe I'm having a hard time relating to that Role description because anytime I've been in a situation that's demanded use of my Role, I've simply begrudgingly done what I could. If it seemed like the situation continuously called for more Fe than I felt comfortable giving, I'd get out of it. I don't think I've ever wished I was "better at" it. When it comes to your Role it's usually more of a matter of how much attention you're giving it. (If I ever had a wish relating to my 3rd function it was that I wouldn't have to deal with it.)

This would be my preference too, but it is obviouly not always possibly when it is work-related and therefore not much of an option. But yes, my wish would definitely be that I didn't have to deal with...but I do, so.

Healthy Te dominants are assertive and decisive (because they're Te and EJ)... and I'm having a hard time understanding why someone working for a non-profit organization for people with developmental disabilities and mental health deficits would need to be aggressive.

I need to be aggressive and assertive in implementing rules and enforcing discipline. This doesn't change much regardless of what kind of organization you work for. But I hate this part of my job and the fact that effective leadership is often defined in these terms. I don't like having to tell others what to do and when to do things, this is where I'm coming from with all this. So, even though I have to do this because it is part of my job, I am not assertive about it. I have gotten better though. The "other part" of my job is what keeps me there. The part where I get to use my Ne/Fi.

Anyways... I'm not saying that you're wrong... just that I don't understand why someone would ever long to be better at things related to their role. I mean, a Te dominant who wants to be more charismatic (for Te reasons, of course) will just read How to Win Friends and Influence People or something (this is different than the type of wishing/longing you described though). Maybe it doesn't work like that with Se though?

I'm thinking this wouldn't be such a problem for me if I had a different position at work. So I guess I need to change jobs...which I've been considering anyway.
Hahaha, the Te dominant's solution would indeed be a very practical one, but I'm obviously not good at that either. Maybe in this case the Te practical suggestion would be to just get another job where my Role function wasn't as big a demand (not in management).

[Sirena]

Explain what? Should I make a brain scan after every sentence I say and send it to you?

It would probably make a lot more sense than your one line comments.

[Park]

It would probably make a lot more sense than your one line comments.

The fact that you don't understand them doesn't mean that they don't make sense. It just shows that your brain is slow.

[Sirena]

The fact that you don't understand them doesn't mean that they don't make sense.

Saying "OK" as a response to someone leaves a lot up for interpretation. So yeah, the scans would come in handy.

[Park]

Saying "OK" as a response to someone leaves a lot up for interpretation. So yeah, the scans would come in handy.

Your Se is pathetic. Try harder.

[Blaze]

i totally get where sirena is coming from. Se is strongly valued in business/work situations. esp if you are supervisor. you have to force people to do things that they don't want to do. if you don't do this one of a couple things will happen:

1. if you don't get your staff moving, you will be held accountable for the performance of your team by your supervisor
2. if you push your staff too hard they will leave and you will end up overwhelmed and doing their work
3. if you cannot demonstrate results, you will lose credibility as a leader, be pushed back to the line, along with a paycut, which hardly anybody can afford who works in human services.

joy, LIE is a natural leader type...i'm not sure you're really understanding how the world asks for this from types who are not natural leaders/managers. when you have Se role, you simply have to develop it at work and in life. otherwise you will experience work consequences (as above) and get bullied.

that said, sirena, developing your role function is good, but even better is using your NeFi/relationship skills to persuade and motivate others. if you flatter people they will want to please you. choose your team carefully and find reasons to weed out people who aren't getting with your program. then hire people from your own or adjacent quadras.

[Sirena]

Your Se is pathetic. Try harder.

Damn!

[Blaze]

i totally get where sirena is coming from. Se is strongly valued in business/work situations. esp if you are supervisor. you have to force people to do things that they don't want to do. if you don't do this one of a couple things will happen:

1. if you don't get your staff moving, you will be held accountable for the performance of your team by your supervisor
2. if you push your staff too hard they will leave and you will end up overwhelmed and doing their work
3. if you cannot demonstrate results, you will lose credibility as a leader, be pushed back to the line, along with a paycut, which hardly anybody can afford who works in human services.

joy, LIE is a natural leader type...i'm not sure you're really understanding how the world asks for this from types who are not natural leaders/managers. when you have Se role, you simply have to develop it at work and in life. otherwise you will experience work consequences (as above) and get bullied.

that said, sirena, developing your role function is good, but even better is using your NeFi/relationship skills to persuade and motivate others. if you flatter people they will want to please you. choose your team carefully and find reasons to weed out people who aren't getting with your program. then hire people from your own or adjacent quadras.

...i can see this getting lost in the pages.

[Sirena]

i totally get where sirena is coming from. Se is strongly valued in business/work situations. esp if you are supervisor. you have to force people to do things that they don't want to do. if you don't do this one of a couple things will happen:

1. you will be held accountable for the performance of your team by your supervisor
2. if you push your staff too hard they will leave and you will end up overwhelmed and doing their work
3. you will lose credibility as a leader, be pushed back to the line, along with a paycut, which hardly anybody can afford who works in human services.

joy, LIE is a natural leader type...i'm not sure you're really understanding how the world asks for this from types who are not natural leaders/managers. when you have Se role, you simply have to develop it at work and in life. otherwise you will experience work consequences (as above) and get bullied.

+ 1 million. That's exactly what I mean.

that said, sirena, developing your role function is good, but even better is using your NeFi/relationship skills to persuade and motivate others. if you flatter people they will want to please you. choose your team carefully and find reasons to weed out people who aren't getting with your program. then hire people from your own or adjacent quadras.

This is something I have to allow myself to do more. I've been too caught up in trying to be the leader others expect me to be. But doing so will always end up backfiring on me. The type of leader that you just described is "me." Thanks!

[Park]

...i can see this getting lost in the pages.

You want them to read that so bad... ATTENTION WHORE!

Let me help.



READ THIS!!! VERY IMPORTANT!!!

i totally get where sirena is coming from. Se is strongly valued in business/work situations. esp if you are supervisor. you have to force people to do things that they don't want to do. if you don't do this one of a couple things will happen:

1. if you don't get your staff moving, you will be held accountable for the performance of your team by your supervisor
2. if you push your staff too hard they will leave and you will end up overwhelmed and doing their work
3. if you cannot demonstrate results, you will lose credibility as a leader, be pushed back to the line, along with a paycut, which hardly anybody can afford who works in human services.

joy, LIE is a natural leader type...i'm not sure you're really understanding how the world asks for this from types who are not natural leaders/managers. when you have Se role, you simply have to develop it at work and in life. otherwise you will experience work consequences (as above) and get bullied.

that said, sirena, developing your role function is good, but even better is using your NeFi/relationship skills to persuade and motivate others. if you flatter people they will want to please you. choose your team carefully and find reasons to weed out people who aren't getting with your program. then hire people from your own or adjacent quadras.

JOY, and especially SIRENA: REPLY OR DIE!!!

[Blaze]

lol you're so right. i just totally relate to sirena. i've worked in human services for years and been a manager/supervisor for 10 years. these are the lessons i've learned....and am dying to pass on to somebody else!

[Sirena]

lol you're so right. i just totally relate to sirena. i've worked in human services for years and been a manager/supervisor for 10 years. these are the lessons i've learned....and am dying to pass on to somebody else!

And I very much appreciate it. You've made me feel better about this whole thing. And notice I replied to your post before it was pointed out.

[Park]

...and am dying to pass on to somebody else!

and you also got the reply you were dying for...

[discojoe]

For me, my Role Function is something I uncomfortably attempt to use as a substitute for my Dual-Seeking Function, which I feel almost euphoric at having fulfilled (show me a book by a smart ENTj and I'll show you the book-reading equivalent of masturbation). If I get enough Te on a certain subject, I can kind of effectively recreate it, but I often forget the state of mind and find myself falling back on Ti reasoning, which is frustrating.

Te is like this revelation that sits in the back of my head that I can never quite get at without help, so I often just have to settle for Ti, which makes me nervous.

[Blaze]

and you also got the reply you were dying for...

yes, i am very glad she found what i had to say useful!

[Blaze]

And I very much appreciate it. You've made me feel better about this whole thing. And notice I replied to your post before it was pointed out.

i do indeed so notice!! :-) i'm glad you feel better....management is a bitch for sure.

[Logos]

For me, my Role Function is something I uncomfortably attempt to use as a substitute for my Dual-Seeking Function, which I feel almost euphoric at having fulfilled (show me a book by a smart ENTj and I'll show you the book-reading equivalent of masturbation). If I get enough Te on a certain subject, I can kind of effectively recreate it, but I often forget the state of mind and find myself falling back on Ti reasoning, which is frustrating.

Te is like this revelation that sits in the back of my head that I can never quite get at without help, so I often just have to settle for Ti, which makes me nervous.

The role function is like crutch that you would prefer not to use, but still find yourself leaning on when you can get no other support.

[Joy]

This would be my preference too, but it is obviouly not always possibly when it is work-related and therefore not much of an option. But yes, my wish would definitely be that I didn't have to deal with...but I do, so.

I need to be aggressive and assertive in implementing rules and enforcing discipline. This doesn't change much regardless of what kind of organization you work for. But I hate this part of my job and the fact that effective leadership is often defined in these terms. I don't like having to tell others what to do and when to do things, this is where I'm coming from with all this. So, even though I have to do this because it is part of my job, I am not assertive about it. I have gotten better though. The "other part" of my job is what keeps me there. The part where I get to use my Ne/Fi.


I'm thinking this wouldn't be such a problem for me if I had a different position at work. So I guess I need to change jobs...which I've been considering anyway.
Hahaha, the Te dominant's solution would indeed be a very practical one, but I'm obviously not good at that either. Maybe in this case the Te practical suggestion would be to just get another job where my Role function wasn't as big a demand (not in management).

Two other suggestions:

1.) Make the LSE your second in command and have her do your bidding.
2.) Read books about leadership? (Actually, the one I mentioned would probably be pretty useful to you as well. It'll tell you how to get results and be respected without having to be aggressive.)

That said, it is pretty important to enjoy the things you're spending your time on. If your current job isn't a good fit, it wouldn't be crazy to try to find another one that would be.

i totally get where sirena is coming from. Se is strongly valued in business/work situations. esp if you are supervisor. you have to force people to do things that they don't want to do. if you don't do this one of a couple things will happen:

1. if you don't get your staff moving, you will be held accountable for the performance of your team by your supervisor
2. if you push your staff too hard they will leave and you will end up overwhelmed and doing their work
3. if you cannot demonstrate results, you will lose credibility as a leader, be pushed back to the line, along with a paycut, which hardly anybody can afford who works in human services.

So it's about needing Si in the end... if you didn't have to worry about your standard of living/being comfortable, you wouldn't have to work in a leadership position.

joy, LIE is a natural leader type...i'm not sure you're really understanding how the world asks for this from types who are not natural leaders/managers. when you have Se role, you simply have to develop it at work and in life. otherwise you will experience work consequences (as above) and get bullied.

Doesn't the world expect people to be charismatic as well though?

that said, sirena, developing your role function is good, but even better is using your NeFi/relationship skills to persuade and motivate others. if you flatter people they will want to please you. choose your team carefully and find reasons to weed out people who aren't getting with your program. then hire people from your own or adjacent quadras.

Yes, this sounds like good advice. Focus on your strong functions.

[Logos]

So it's about needing Si in the end... if you didn't have to worry about your standard of living/being comfortable, you wouldn't have to work in a leadership position.

What good is telling an -valuer to adopt an -attitude and position? But if you didn't have to worry about your standard of living/being comfortable, you wouldn't have to work in any position.

Doesn't the world expect people to be charismatic as well though?

Yes. But it is possible to overcome these with competence and confidence gained through it.

[Joy]

What good is telling an -valuer to adopt an -attitude and position?

When did I say that she should?

But if you didn't have to worry about your standard of living/being comfortable, you wouldn't have to work in any position.

Obviously. (I don't understand what you're trying to get at.)

Yes. But it is possible to overcome these with competence and confidence gained through it.

These? Meaning poor leadership skills and lacking charisma?

[Logos]

When did I say that she should?

It sounded like advice.

Obviously. (I don't understand what you're trying to get at.)

It makes sense in the context of my response to what appeared to be advice given by you to Sunshine Lively.

These? Meaning poor leadership skills and lacking charisma?

Or just shortcomings, but yes.

[Joy]

It sounded like advice.

It makes sense in the context of my response to what appeared to be advice given by you to Sunshine Lively.

Oh, I was just making an observation about how their description of a Se Role relates to Si Dual Seeking.

Or just shortcomings, but yes.

Competence leads to confidence which leads to overcoming one's weaknesses? Sure, that's one approach.

[Logos]

Oh, I was just making an observation about how their description of a Se Role relates to Si Dual Seeking.

No harm, no foul.

Competence leads to confidence which leads to overcoming one's weaknesses? Sure, that's one approach.

I would say one of the biggest keys though is self-awareness of one's abilities.

[Joy]

Yep. Don't torture yourself trying to strengthen super ego functions. Find ways to use your strong functions to get the same results.

[Blaze]

So it's about needing Si in the end... if you didn't have to worry about your standard of living/being comfortable, you wouldn't have to work in a leadership position.

do you have any clue as to what line workers make in human services???? i'll enlighten you: they qualify for some public assistance.

it's not about Si necessarily....it's about how 99% of everybody would like to live. including Se, Te, Ti, Ni, Fi, Ne whatever.

[Blaze]

Yep. Don't torture yourself trying to strengthen super ego functions. Find ways to use your strong functions to get the same results.

don't torture yourself....but you can still improve your role function somewhat.