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    Default Role Function

    Supposedly the role function is the one we're sometimes trying to get better at in utter desperation and despair only to fail because the role function and the lead function are in a perpetual race and the lead function always "wins in the end."

    What do you see yourself as doing to try and improve your role function (if anything)?

    I was also wondering, because it occured to me having read some things said by Redbaron and Sunshine, if you think the role function and lead function balance themselves out a little more with age (though that may just be another period of focusing on the role function for a while).

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    I don't think I really try and improve my role function. I just don't see what I need from it that I can't get from any combination of my valued functions. I know some people try to emphasise improving it for the sake of self-improvement, but...I guess the phrase here is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". 'tis how it is for me anyway.
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    I use it when I've failed in my argument. Leon and I were discussing the nature of film a few nights ago, and he was arguing that my view of film was limited. In order to expand, I thought "okay, fine, there is a certain potential in film and I am going to have to admit it".

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    i spose it depends on what IM the role function contains. like mine is Se, from my point of view everybody needs a little bit of forcefulness, drive, and willpower. without it, i'd have to rely on ideas only to motivate myself and others. which is kinda limiting. you also have to be able to defend yourself in a cruel cruel world....Se is good for this as well.

    so, i think it's worth it to put some effort into it. but i don't think i really started doing that until my 30's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Supposedly the role function is the one we're sometimes trying to get better at in utter desperation and despair only to fail because the role function and the lead function are in a perpetual race and the lead function always "wins in the end."
    This is much closer to the way I see the 4th and the 2nd functions than the 1st and the 3rd.
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    Hmm. I guess this is where I differ from most everyone's replies so far. I feel I'm rather cozy with my role function.

    stuff is usually where I find physical (and often emotional) comfort. Elsewhere on this board I think I've associated Si with the self-pres instinctual variant of enneagram. Cool water when I'm overheated, smooth textures when I'm irritated, etc. I have an affinity for cooking and aesthetics. I'm always monitoring my internal state, and am exquisitely sensitive to external stimuli. I can rather see elements Ni and Si reinforcing each other in my case. <=>. They seem somewhat harmonized and mutualistic.

    is quite a big problem, though. I have very little command or awareness of that one. Huge blind spot. Of course, it would be.

    Being PoLR and all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post

    is quite a big problem, though. I have very little command or awareness of that one. Huge blind spot. Of course, it would be.

    Being PoLR and all.
    Wouldn't be your PoLR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Wouldn't be your PoLR?
    Uh... yeah. <<smacks forehead>>
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Uh... yeah. <<smacks forehead>>
    Hey, don't hurt yourself there.

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    My Role function is . This has definitely been a struggle for me throughout my life. It is actually a major reason I started looking into MBTI and eventually Socionics. I do often find myself desperately wanting to be more assertive, aggressive and decisive because I see how much these attributes are valued by today's society, especially in the workplace. This continues to be a battle for me, particularly at work, since I am in a leadership position and society's idea of "effective leadership" does not match my strengths. So, I continue to try to be someone I'm not, only to realize how lousy I am at it and how much energy even trying takes out of me. I have come to at least partially accept that these are things that will never come naturally for me. I often compare myself to my ESTj co-worker, who seems to be naturally good at this and find myself in awe of her, wishing I was more like that when needed, which ends up making me feel inadequate. Luckily, my strengths are valued in the type of work that I do (non-profit organization for people with developmental disabilities and mental health deficits)...which is what keeps me there. I do often think I would be happier having a position where I was able to use my strong functions that didn't involve a level of authority that would require as much use of Se. But maybe it's a good thing to force myself to develop this weaker area? I don't know...this is my dilemma.

    P.S. I should note that the "attributes" I referred to are not really qualities I personally value, but rather things I perceive that society as a whole values and therefore see myself as lacking. I definitely wish there wasn't such a big focus on being this way, but I don't see that changing any time soon. I can't seem to truly be able to value these qualities in Se dominant types. I am actually rather turned off by them. They seem extremely pushy, aggressive, showy and cocky...which are some of the worst qualities someone can have IMO. But at the same time I can't help but feel a little envious at the fact that they can pull it off so easily. Please, I mean no offense to Se dominants, I am just stating *my* perception of how their strong Se appears to me in some situations, for the purpose of explaining my point.

    Wow, this sure has been a long, rambling post. I hope someone can make something out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    My Role function is . This has definitely been a struggle for me throughout my life. It is actually a major reason I started looking into MBTI and eventually Socionics. I do often find myself desperately wanting to be more assertive, aggressive and decisive because I see how much these attributes are valued by today's society, especially in the workplace. This continues to be a battle for me, particularly at work, since I am in a leadership position and society's idea of "effective leadership" does not match my strengths. So, I continue to try to be someone I'm not, only to realize how lousy I am at it and how much energy even trying takes out of me. I have come to at least partially accept that these are things that will never come naturally for me. I often compare myself to my ESTj co-worker, who seems to be naturally good at this and find myself in awe of her, wishing I was more like that when needed, which ends up making me feel inadequate. Luckily, my strengths are valued in the type of work that I do (non-profit organization for people with developmental disabilities and mental health deficits)...which is what keeps me there. I do often think I would be happier having a position where I was able to use my strong functions that didn't involve a level of authority that would require as much use of Se. But maybe it's a good thing to force myself to develop this weaker area? I don't know...this is my dilemma.

    P.S. I should note that the "attributes" I referred to are not really qualities I personally value, but rather things I perceive that society as a whole values and therefore see myself as lacking. I definitely wish there wasn't such a big focus on being this way, but I don't see that changing any time soon. I can't seem to truly be able to value these qualities in Se dominant types. I am actually rather turned off by them. They seem extremely pushy, aggressive, showy and cocky...which are some of the worst qualities someone can have IMO. But at the same time I can't help but feel a little envious at the fact that they can pull it off so easily. Please, I mean no offense to Se dominants, I am just stating *my* perception of how their strong Se appears to me in some situations, for the purpose of explaining my point.

    Wow, this sure has been a long, rambling post. I hope someone can make something out of it.

    great explanation of Se role. it's like we want to have some juice...but not so much juice that a leading Se would have, since yeah it seems pushy and obnoxious. and we don't really want creative Se either, since that's usually expressed as twirling you around in your swivel chair and flushing you down the toilet. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I do often find myself desperately wanting to be more assertive, aggressive and decisive because I see how much these attributes are valued by today's society, especially in the workplace.

    I often compare myself to my ESTj co-worker, who seems to be naturally good at this and find myself in awe of her, wishing I was more like that when needed, which ends up making me feel inadequate.

    But at the same time I can't help but feel a little envious at the fact that they can pull it off so easily.
    From how I understand Expat (and I could be wrong), this is how ENXj types should feel about their Se HA. (envious etc...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    From how I understand Expat (and I could be wrong), this is how ENXj types should feel about their Se HA. (envious etc...)
    You obviously didn't understand my post then. I was very clear to point out that the only reason I feel envious is because they can do it easily when needed, but I don't value it. I wish it didn't exist, but since it does, I'd like to be somewhat good at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I was very clear to point out that the only reason I feel envious is because they can do it easily when needed...
    I know and that's what I was referring to...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    My Role function is . This has definitely been a struggle for me throughout my life. It is actually a major reason I started looking into MBTI and eventually Socionics. I do often find myself desperately wanting to be more assertive, aggressive and decisive because I see how much these attributes are valued by today's society, especially in the workplace. This continues to be a battle for me, particularly at work, since I am in a leadership position and society's idea of "effective leadership" does not match my strengths. So, I continue to try to be someone I'm not, only to realize how lousy I am at it and how much energy even trying takes out of me. I have come to at least partially accept that these are things that will never come naturally for me. I often compare myself to my ESTj co-worker, who seems to be naturally good at this and find myself in awe of her, wishing I was more like that when needed, which ends up making me feel inadequate. Luckily, my strengths are valued in the type of work that I do (non-profit organization for people with developmental disabilities and mental health deficits)...which is what keeps me there. I do often think I would be happier having a position where I was able to use my strong functions that didn't involve a level of authority that would require as much use of Se. But maybe it's a good thing to force myself to develop this weaker area? I don't know...this is my dilemma.

    P.S. I should note that the "attributes" I referred to are not really qualities I personally value, but rather things I perceive that society as a whole values and therefore see myself as lacking. I definitely wish there wasn't such a big focus on being this way, but I don't see that changing any time soon. I can't seem to truly be able to value these qualities in Se dominant types. I am actually rather turned off by them. They seem extremely pushy, aggressive, showy and cocky...which are some of the worst qualities someone can have IMO. But at the same time I can't help but feel a little envious at the fact that they can pull it off so easily. Please, I mean no offense to Se dominants, I am just stating *my* perception of how their strong Se appears to me in some situations, for the purpose of explaining my point.

    Wow, this sure has been a long, rambling post. I hope someone can make something out of it.

    I'm pretty surprised by how much I identify with this. I have the same issue..
    I have Se in my super ego and I feel that I need/want to be good at it even though I don't like it. It seems like a quality that is so admired in today's society and I don't like having this as a weakness, so I try to act like I can pull it off. Either way I end up feeling disappointed because trying to be good at something I'm not is a waste of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
    I'm pretty surprised by how much I identify with this. I have the same issue..
    I have Se in my super ego and I feel that I need/want to be good at it even though I don't like it. It seems like a quality that is so admired in today's society and I don't like having this as a weakness, so I try to act like I can pull it off. Either way I end up feeling disappointed because trying to be good at something I'm not is a waste of time.
    I know what you mean. It is defnitely a bad feeling to feel you should be good at something you don't value. Are you not sure whether Se is your Role or PoLR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I know what you mean. It is defnitely a bad feeling to feel you should be good at something you don't value. Are you not sure whether Se is your Role or PoLR?
    Yeah, the only thing I know for sure is that I try to be good at it, especially because I am surrounded by Se people.. I think that people might have this desire with their polr as well, maybe even more so than with their role?

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    My role function is how I squeak by in social situations.

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