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Thread: It's all in how they do/say it, right?

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    Default It's all in how they do/say it, right?

    Help me out here. It seems like this socionics thing isn't based on mental states leading up to similiar lifestyles but more like, how we simply say and go about things.

    For example, even if you agree with what they're saying, your conflictor would rub you the wrong way. But if your dual disagrees with you they would do it in a way where you would still keep the peace and be able to have a positive relationship.

    You also don't even have to have anything in common for it to work, because the 'how you go about things' part is so seductive, you'd build a relationship anyway. Besides, you don't necessarily fancy a person just because you do things with them, correct?

    I thought about this, and a person doesn't have to have anything in common with me, it's just I better like how they go about things and how they carry themselves. I don't like or dislike a person based on what they do unless it's something that I really think is morally wrong.

    If this seems like a big 'duh' to people and all, that's fine. But just tell me if I'm generally right or not. I think it's more about how you mesh with people's quirks, that's the thing that build's chemistry.

    I mean attitude, personality- that's what it is all about. We can do diff things and have our own lives, we need that, but they need to behave/carry themselves in a way that speaks to my soul when we interact. So liking somebody similiar OR different is irrelevant either way to me. It's not about similarities or differences lining up and clashing, I don't think.

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    For example, the reason why Expat bugs me so much is not the things he says, it's because there doesn't seem to be the right kind of emotion or attitude in his voice. We might agree on everything and want the same sort of lifestyle... and everything else might match perfectly, but everything would fall apart because of that one little thing.

    It's really the only thing that matters when dealing with human relationships I think. Of course you might not like it if somebody always criticizes you but realistically I don't think that ever happens. ((And if it is man lol what are they doing in a relationship where they're not being supported for just the way they are))

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    In many cases it probably is more about the method than the message. For one, I can tell right off we have two different ways of approaching things. It doesn't bother me for the purpose of the forum, as I also enjoy reading your stuff, but I can see how our relations would chafe in real life interaction.
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    This is just how I express myself through writing though. I could try to explain how I act in real life but that would be hard as I'd have to try and be as accurate and possible and really comprehend myself, which I'm not sure I do yet. Besides I think it would be the same way as online, just a less exaggerated version of it. It all comes from my same brain so over time my relaxed 'online state' would come out anyway.

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    Sure, two people can say essentially the same thing to a person and get two different responses, based on how they said it.
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    But it's the general gist of socionics though? And also the general reason why we like or dislike a person. In the end I think disliking a person for anything else doesn't make much sense and would end up hurting your relationships, though I know realistically people are going to cut each other off for the weirdest of reasons.

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    There's another very important dichotomy that comes to mind. It has to do with wellness. Misery loves company and whatnot. Also, a relationship can only be as healthy as the least healthy person in it (so healthy people are naturally attracted to other healthy people). There are other things that matter, too, such as cultural interests, demographics, etc.
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    There's another very important dichotomy that comes to mind. It has to do with wellness (misery loves company and whatnot).
    ??? That's not a dichotomy, that's two of the same things. Misery/misery. Or you meant wellness and misery?

    There are other things that matter, too, such as cultural interests, demographics, etc.
    I don't like or dislike a person based on cultural interests, but their attitude of said cultures. Arrogance about one's culture annoys me, but I want them to feel good about it (and process that good feeling in a way that I like). Demographics I understand. A 50-year-old man shouldn't be interacting with 12-year-old girls even if they are duals lol.

    The only two things that's relevant in how I get along with somebody are: (a. they don't criticize me too much (or criticize me for things I don't feel need changing or feel that I can change) and (b. they go about things in a way that is compatible with mine; they simply say/do things the right way.

    Oh umm and also, they can't smell funny/weird. I don't care about looks, but you have to smell right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    ??? That's not a dichotomy, that's two of the same things. Misery/misery. Or you meant wellness and misery?
    Wellness and the lack of wellness (which could be described as misery).

    I don't like or dislike a person based on cultural interests, but their attitude of said cultures. Arrogance about one's culture annoys me, but I want them to feel good about it (and process that good feeling in a way that I like). Demographics I understand. A 50-year-old man shouldn't be interacting with 12-year-old girls even if they are duals lol.

    The only two things that's relevant in how I get along with somebody are: (a. they don't criticize me too much (or criticize me for things I don't feel need changing or feel that I can change) and (b. they go about things in a way that is compatible with mine; they simply say/do things the right way.

    Oh umm and also, they can't smell funny/weird. I don't care about looks, but you have to smell right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    And what of people who spend [or prefer to spend] their worst hours alone?
    Are we talking about days, weeks, or years?

    Also, I've read of people who percieved a relationship as satisfactory without realizing how unsatisfied the partner is.
    Sure, that can happen even if both partners are in a similar place in terms of wellness.

    I've heard of people attracted to relationships where they help someone seemingly worse off than themselves.
    There's a difference between "better off" and wellness. What you're describing is codependence.

    You seem to make a lot of assumptions about relationships and I can't imagine how you could even remotely verify them all. Maybe experience has verified them to you. But maybe your experience isn't a universally applicable one.
    I could always be wrong about anything... the concept that healthy people are attracted to other healthy people and unhealthy people are attracted to other unhealthy people is one that I'm extremely confident in, however. I suppose different people define health and wellness in different ways though, as your codependency example points out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I could always be wrong about anything... the concept that healthy people are attracted to other healthy people and unhealthy people are attracted to other unhealthy people is one that I'm extremely confident in, however. I suppose different people define health and wellness in different ways though, as your codependency example points out.
    There's always the option that signalling level of health might not be so easy, especially without any former trial.

    Here's an interesting game theory paper on the matter, but I don't know if you can access it:

    http://ratio.huji.ac.il/dp_files/dp483.pdf
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    I was using "hours" figuratively, but I don't see why it couldn't be longer than that. One anecdote that comes to mind are those "return to nature" stories, where at the very least someone might spend several weeks on a secluded hike.
    I didn't mean that all unwell people are going to enter relationships with other unwell people. I meant that if an unwell person enters a relationship, it will be with another unwell person.

    Of course, there are always situations in which people get into relationships without realizing how unwell the other person is. In a situation like that, a large "wellness gap" between them couldn't exist for very long within the relationship.

    Similarly, when one person in an existing relationship becomes significantly more well/unwell than the other and the other doesn't change, chances are good that they won't stay together. There are exceptions to this of course... such as in situations where they stay married for external reasons. Even if they stay married, however, the relationship will still fall apart within the marriage.

    You would know a lot about defining things. You've done more of that in reply than justify the existing concepts in question.
    What kind of justification are you looking for? You're free to agree or disagree with my observations/understanding.
    Last edited by Joy; 07-12-2008 at 02:52 PM.
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