Wow, Kamangir got banned? That's a little...extreme...oh well, he was an ignorant twat anyways.
Wow, Kamangir got banned? That's a little...extreme...oh well, he was an ignorant twat anyways.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
What a fucking idiot...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
he got banned? huh.
I wonder what's for dinner.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
lmao loki
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
He was banned as per his own request.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I talked with Kamangir the other night at length--other than what's expressed here, he's really chill.
To be honest, throughout this thread I kept waiting for him to say something like "I'm only kidding."
Regardless, it's heartening to read a lot of these posts. Gilly, Allie, LokiV, Starfall, mn0good, and on and on... THANK YOU
7/11:
I feel tired/stupid today. I want to participate in other conversations but everything I say I feel stupid. I went to the fair AGAIN today, it annoyed me because everybody said I should draw even though I suck at it. I gave it up a long time ago, and I wish they didn't try to make me feel better about it. It's like if you can't/don't want to do something, people view it as a weakness and they bug you about it. This pisses me off, so I'm in kind of a mood today. Plus I'm sore.
They were being those stuck up artists that thought they were better than everybody else, when they need to go out and play football or something. They were all 'don't be closed off to your artistic expressions, Sam.' Ugggh just because I'm not open to your little rants don't take it the wrong way. I've always had a problem with social skills, since I do kinda act pensive/angry. I need somebody that will say 'hey he said he didn't want to do it, leave him the fuck alone!'
I took many art classes before, and even though I like to do it I figured I shouldn't waste time doing something I really suck at. I was one of the worst students in the class because I absolutely have no talent whatsoever and if something isn't in me, I wish people would just realize that and learn to let go. I think I picked it up in school because people assumed I was artistic just because I'm not jocky. I still like making my own comics though. Maybe if I make one of me kicking a bunch of pothead cocky artists in the ass do you think people would buy it?
I suppose I should learn to fake it more. Hey they were just making conversation right? I could have said "Oh yeah maybe I'll do it, it will be fun!" instead of being honest and making them feel kinda closed off. Oh well though.
Wait, somebody got banned because of this discussion? What the fuck?
Uggggh. This just makes my blood boil. If he wanted to piss me off with that passive-aggressive martyr bullshit, it worked.
Expat, can you please tell him I apologize if I made him so upset? Or maybe I'll tell him myself directly. Even if he is ignorant, I have a soft spot if a person is getting ganged up on. I realize I'm contradicting myself since I always talk about how we have to be tough on homophobia. But he's probably not really upset, seems like he's just being a passive-aggressive guilt-tripping little mama's boy. Asking himself to be banned? What the hell.
Oh er I just wanna say, I think a man/woman relationship has some obviously minor differences- I think they might naturally cover certain weaknesses better... but they also seem to have more arguements and like they can't bond romantically as I can with a man. I don't know lol. Also gay men rarely get as angry/fight as often as a straight couple. This is also fact. (Need to find that article....) Two men wouldn't bitch about toilet seats, but also both might be lazy about doing housework.
But anyways my only point is that just because two men MIGHT in fact be worse in some areas (and vice-versa) doesn't make heterosexual relationships better/worse than homosexual relationships.
It's like saying because women are physically weaker than men, women are innately inferior. Or because gay men are more intuitive than straight men, straight guys are innately inferior. Give me a fucking break people. Phobes sometimes go and beat up gay men just because generally speaking as a whole, we're not as physically strong as straight men. Assholes. Hope they eat shit and die.
We are complex enough yet we can't do everything well. They *used* to make gay couples go through so many fucking hoops to prove how perfect/wonderful they were to adopt. Maybe they eased up on them little, but it's just ridiculous. I'm not gonna prissy myself up like some gay men do to make people like me. We shouldn't expect people to have to do that. Reminds me of those really horrible tv shows where the minority characters were perfect moral saints.
I never really had a serious opinion on the guy, but now, well, I can understand that some people like him/think he's fun, but I won't have anything to do with someone that closemindedly bigoted. Anyone that stubbornly dogmatic about discrimination, of all things, in the face of overwhelming evidence...I have no room in my sphere of admiration or respect for people like that. I mean, I'm sure he's a nice guy and all, but as far as I'm concerned, you can keep him. I hope he goes to heaven or reaches eternal peace or whatever, but I also hope he learns to respect his fellow humans.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Plus if homosexuality is so bad, how come gay men do A LOT better in life if they come out socially to the general public, and they do so poorly when they don't? If it's so dysfunctional, why does admitting it enable gay guys to build better lives for themselves? Just doesn't make any sense. When you don't come out it seems to enable Robert Reed-like behavior and suicide.
I can actually understand how some people can view it as a natural weakness however, though in the grand scheme of things it isn't, I don't think. Fucking a girl would just feel awkward to me. Besides I've always loved being gay. =)
And yeah people who are open-minded have more friends. I feel sorry for bigots because they just don't tend to have any real friends. Esp. the home-schooled Christian type. =/ I can't help but feel sorry for them.
Sorry. YMMV, and all that.
Aww reading this made me smile for some reason.
It really is their fault if they don't have friends. Having preconceived beliefs about how people should be/act/live is really sad. You limit yourself in so many ways, and lose out on amazing people and experiences.
I'm pretty open to anyone, even the "home-schooled Christian type" lol... if they can tolerate me. I think it's really admirable how you have so much confidence in who you are, btw. I think I need to be more like that.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
.
Like what, exactly?
I'll admit that I'm turned off by close-mindedness, but I'm also still willing to be friends with anyone who is willing to accept me first. I think that's the crucial difference.
And honestly, I don't understand how you're judging me based on a reaction that I had after reading something that I interpreted as extremely rude and offensive (IMO). I was frustrated, but I still didn't say anything about his him OR his beliefs that I feel isn't justifiable.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
I don't see how I treated him unjustly. I expressed myself honestly and presented him with the facts; if he took it too personally, that's his own fault. He's free to be who he wants to be and believe what he wants to believe, but I'm equally free to tell him how I feel about it. It's not like anyone is intentionally ganging up on him about his beliefs; everyone here is just expressing their opinions, aren't they? Would you deny me the right to speak my mind? Who would be the intolerant one then?
Last edited by Gilly; 07-12-2008 at 02:00 AM.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ok...I'm am big on equality. I have friends that are gay and friends that are straight. Beyond that they are my friends. I don't really care about the rest!
People have a right to do what they want, so long as it doesn't harm others. I'm the biggest Athiest ever, and I really REALLY have a problem with certain religions, but I'm not about to judge someone on that if they feel differently.
What a boring world we would live in if everyone was the same.
As for Kam, I like him. A lot of his views make me want to shake him really hard, but deep down I think his heart is in the right place. He is only young, he has a lot of life to live, and at some level I respect his ability to hold strong beliefs.
I don't get the self-banning thing though, I must admit. I guess I'll add that to th list of things that make me not SEI
Fuck I'm an attention whore.
Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .
For the record, I'm completely convinced that you are standing up for him like this because your beliefs coincide. You butt buddy discojoe treats people with absolutely zero respect with regards to their feelings and opinions quite often, and you don't seem to have a problem when he does it. By comparison I believe everyone in this thread is behaving as a paragon of civility and tolerance.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Are you talking to me Gilly?
I'll get the mud.
Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Dolphin, what you're saying about Fe and the atmosphere and such makes sense to me. And I'm sorry that our reactions to him made him uncomfortable or upset, however I can't be sorry for what I said.
I will still defend what I've said in this thread despite what you and Diana are saying. Because Kam's defense of his "beliefs" seem more like desperate attempts to attach himself to something.
Why? Because like you said...
His beliefs are directly tied to his family and religion. His beliefs are his stability. To admit his beliefs are wrong would mean his religion and family are wrong. He defends them because they are his stability and he is afraid to lose that. I think that's a problem and I apologize if I wasn't sensitive enough, but I still don't regret what I've said.You guys don't mean it, but you're forcing him to choose between his life, his family, what he has known practically his whole life, for the words of some forum strangers on the internet.
You can love and respect your family and keep practicing your religion, but don't attach your world to it at such a young age. To already have a belief on the world and how it should work at seventeen years old? That's scary.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Gilly, stop saying things to make me love you! LOL
Diana, I already apologized if I hurt Kam in anyway. But what he did was completely wrong. Asking to be banned in order to guilt-trip people. How can anybody condone that behavior? He didn't have the right attitude to work it out with us I guess. I already said that maybe he should have more people defending him, so it's not like I don't have compassion.
We can disagree that's fine, but Gilly and I are clearly right about this, and you two are clearly wrong. I don't know what else to tell you. Opinions are only worth something if they are backed up by facts, and yours aren't. Just your sense of moral attitudes - which are subjective and aren't something we can base laws on.
Where was your tolerance and compassion, when you accused me of wanting to be like heterosexual couples? No, I want the same basic rights as everybody else. Not want- need.
The reason we get so upset with you guys is because you have no evidence to back up your bigotry.
Maybe Kam might come back later.
I don't like the drama, but then I do. I realize 'I started it' so haha. What can I say. I just wish people didn't get so charged up about this, but I was all charge-y first myself.If only everyone was a logical type, none of this drama would happen.
It's not hard though. Took a long while for people to get over black folk being equal to them. *shrug*
You can't really stick up for somebody that actually asks to ban themselves though. That's just being a whiny guilt-tripper. If I did that, I wouldn't want Gilly or anybody to stand up for me.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Okay, but why else would you ask yourself to be banned?
Why not just leave or ignore the thread?
Why ask yourself to be banned by the entire forum for not liking how you were treated in one thread?
He totally gave up on any kind of relationship he could have here. Why did he hurt himself like that, just because he didn't like a few people personally? Or if he left for other reasons on top of what happened here, still, he could have just left.
Aww that's kind of umm ... well, I don't know. I see people get coddled and humored at work/school all the time still. If somebody isn't getting positive reinforcement, well I think... they simply need to change up their environment. In private too, everybody needs love. Human beings are weak, we need lots and lots of love, hugs and puppy kisses!Unfortunately we aren't coddled, or humored really, once we get into the outside world. We are left to find our own truth. I can't really find words to express how much this fucking sucks.
Being content isn't all there is to life. I, too, have been led to question many of my deeply held beliefs, some of them by people on this very forum, and I am grateful for every one. Maybe you are different, but I think getting shaken up helps me grow and be stronger at my core, because it makes me question who I am and what really matters to me even more deeply, which gets me closer and closer to the truth.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I really like you dolphin. Something about the way you explain things to me calms me down and makes me really listen to you. Despite you and Diana's posts having a similar message (Me, B&D, and Gilly being insensitive) the way you say it has a very different tone to it. You're open-minded and very non-judgmental and I find it very refreshing and admirable. You seem to understand us all, and you don't question our character, our morals, and us as human beings because of that. I really, really appreciate that. And it kind of illustrates how duality would help me because for some reason (which I would now like to understand) I do have an urge to be nicer and more sensitive after understanding things from your perspective. In contrast, Diana's post annoyed me and made me bitch more.
But back to the point:
I completely relate to what you said about preferring to be blind and content (ugh, ignorance is bliss) but I'm not sure if I think that's the right way to live.
To be happy and content is ideal. However, you're going to have to interact with other people. If you're home-schooled, alone, isolated, etc... I can see how living like that would be better. But if you're going to be blind or judgmental to foreign ideas, you're just going to be miserable for the duration of your life because there's no way to avoid that. If you want to live in this world, you have to actually see it.
Does that make sense?
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
The only one whining here is youThat's just being a whiny guilt-tripper.
He's out of your thread. If you want to keep talking about him it's just making yourself feel better.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
That's entirely not what I was getting at, and I'm not sure why you think that.
My point was, if you're going to down talk someone and call them whiny when they aren't even on the forum and aren't in the thread anymore, then how is that not being whiny yourself?
PS: What's with all this tension here? Gilly's using my name, and now this from Allie? I wrote to point out that I disagreed with B&D's claim that Kam did what he did to be whiny and to guilt trip. That's all.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Heh. Thanks guys. Jeesh man UDP, where did that comment come from?
Okay back to the point. Are you saying he was such a hater he had to ask to be banned in order not to go ballistic and say something he shouldn't?
Whatever it was, it made me psychologically clash with him (when before, we merely disagreed about homosexuality, that could happen even with my dual) Oh well though, I figure anything else we say now is just gonna make the problem worse, so back to blogging.
7/12:
Everybody in the world sucks besides me and my new cyber boyfriend, Gilly. And I have no idea where UDP's hostility for me is coming from because whoa- that was way out of left field. I thought we were tight, man. Whatever the reason, this forum feels like my new 'home' and I don't think I ever want to leave here. Hmm... I'm getting too addicted. But this is just way better than anything that happens in the lame, boring real world I don't care what anybody says.
I think we need to start our own reality show here or something, that could be cool. I think I'll draw comics for everybody. I think I can really make everybody laugh.