If you are single are you waiting for you Dual

[Wynch]

First off, OBJECTIFICATION IS NOT A 'GUY THING'. How fucking RIDICULOUS is that? Objectication has to do with a LACK OF SELF WORTH, not the presence of a dick. Also, what exactly do you mean by nasty and piggish? By that, I assume being sexual.

In either case, being sexual is NOT SOMETHING THAT IS 'NASTY/PIGGISH', and lack of sexuality towards women is not something to be APPLAUDED. The repression of our masculinity in this society is unbelievable, we have people who have no IDEA what it is to be a man in this day and age. Women want sex just as much as we do, if not MORE.

I can't get into this in depth without casting premature judgments on B&D (I want to give him a chance to defend his statements before I assume anything) and going on a crazy anti-post-feminism fembot rage, so I'll limit my comments to these few: The paragraphs I quoted I feel indentify some big issues with perspectives on male and female sexuality. Objectification has become a two-way street. Certainly men play a large role due to the consumption of it, but there are many women now who associate objectification with sexual liberty, which I also believe involves issues of self-worth. Additionally, nasty and piggish behaviour in MATURE men is an idea that is applied a little to liberally, I find. It's as though male sexuality must suffer in order for women to be sexually confident. There are a lot of people who associate overt sexual interest as either degrading or objectifying, which I don't think is the case so long as it's met with a degree of social interest as well. Men and women are often the same, in that physical attraction will come first. It's usually more obvious, you can see physical qualities you like before you ever talk to someone. It's what how you choose to do deal with that interest that differentiates piggishness with genuine interest and respect. Additionally there are plenty of female chauvinist pigs who treat classic "male nastiness/piggishness" as the definition of sexual confidence.

Lumping everyone in a group in either case is a mistake. Surely the issue is a delicate one with many differing opinions, but it seems that there are a lot of issues in finding the balance between the suppression of sexuality and sexual chauvinism. I can't really define the line, but I try my best to walk it by treating people with as much respect as I expect for myself.

[Blaze]

In either case, being sexual is NOT SOMETHING THAT IS 'NASTY/PIGGISH', and lack of sexuality towards women is not something to be APPLAUDED. The repression of our masculinity in this society is unbelievable, we have people who have no IDEA what it is to be a man in this day and age. Women want sex just as much as we do, if not MORE.

lv, pirate....say a little bit more about this. this is interesting.

[xyz]

About men being pigs, I think that anytime a man naturally expresses his sexual desire for a woman, the media (and people in general, i've found) tend to get a little antsy and judgemental about it. Like, I'm not suppose to observe a girls' curves? Or *feel* this need to talk to her for wearing such a nice dress? I've found that lots of guys I know try to hide it from girls, as opposed to just following their instincts and just talk to them or flirt with them. I don't think it's natural at all, and I feel stifled if I have to stop myself. Now I'm not saying disrespect a girl or start getting grabby, but I find nothing wrong with being openly sexual, especially if you're attracted to a girl.

And about men being oppressed, it's sort of the same deal. I find, that especially in offices, that there's lots of legal bias against men. Sexual harassment, lewd conduct, glass ceilings.... While that stuff exists, I certainly don't think most real, intelligent men are threatened by women and therefore have to resort to any of that bullshit.


I find that most stuff that passes of as "___ for men" really is childish bullshit. Maxim? Spike TV? Racing cars? tech toys? all that is good in moderation but for some reason "guys" seem to hold all that as their sole identity. Like it's a crime to like fiction, or love to cook, or WANT to have children.


Personally I don't think you become a real man until you have a family.

But what would I know, I'm still just a guy.

[Lotus]

About men being pigs, I think that anytime a man naturally expresses his sexual desire for a woman, the media (and people in general, i've found) tend to get a little antsy and judgemental about it. Like, I'm not suppose to observe a girls' curves? Or *feel* this need to talk to her for wearing such a nice dress? I've found that lots of guys I know try to hide it from girls, as opposed to just following their instincts and just talk to them or flirt with them. I don't think it's natural at all, and I feel stifled if I have to stop myself. Now I'm not saying disrespect a girl or start getting grabby, but I find nothing wrong with being openly sexual, especially if you're attracted to a girl.

And about men being oppressed, it's sort of the same deal. I find, that especially in offices, that there's lots of legal bias against men. Sexual harassment, lewd conduct, glass ceilings.... While that stuff exists, I certainly don't think most real, intelligent men are threatened by women and therefore have to resort to any of that bullshit.


I find that most stuff that passes of as "___ for men" really is childish bullshit. Maxim? Spike TV? Racing cars? tech toys? all that is good in moderation but for some reason "guys" seem to hold all that as their sole identity. Like it's a crime to like fiction, or love to cook, or WANT to have children.


Personally I don't think you become a real man until you have a family.

But what would I know, I'm still just a guy.

I feel like no matter what I do, whether it's yelling "Tits or get the fuck out?" or asking someone to love me because I was raped in Thailand... I never get accused of sexual harrassment.

Men need to stop complaining. Maybe I want to be a sex offender?! But no, no matter how hard I try... I'm STILL not creepy.

[xyz]

Allie.

No matter how crazy this world gets though, I'll always love women, and consider them my equals and give them respect first.

Whether it's reciprocated or not really depends on the person.

[Shazaam]

You know what I was probably wrong about a lot of stuff in that post (I'm sorry), but we all have our own preconceived notions on things based on experiences and it's up to us to cure that ignorance and find out what is actually real. Too bad drama and human relationships are a lot more interesting than boring facts, but you can only heal yourself with the latter.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt though lol, but I can admit when I was wrong. =)

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

I feel like no matter what I do, whether it's yelling "Tits or get the fuck out?" or asking someone to love me because I was raped in Thailand... I never get accused of sexual harrassment.

Men need to stop complaining. Maybe I want to be a sex offender?! But no, no matter how hard I try... I'm STILL not creepy.

ROTFL

Vid of your Rape in Thai or GTFO!!

Anyway, you're funny and hot. Girls like you are what make me happy of being straight.

[xyz]

There's this culture I've seen, and want no part of it, and it's based not on who you are, but what you do and how you look, and that's all they seem to care about. The guys that get way into the "typical guy" stuff, like fast cars and naked women etc. don't seem to even like women. They seem to be more interested in how they appear to other guys.

They are more interested in appearance. That or they're so insecure that they have to have this stuff around them to get any sense of self-worth.

[Sirena]

You know what I was probably wrong about a lot of stuff in that post (I'm sorry), but we all have our own preconceived notions on things based on experiences and it's up to us to cure that ignorance and find out what is actually real. Too bad drama and human relationships are a lot more interesting than boring facts, but you can only heal yourself with the latter.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt though lol, but I can admit when I was wrong. =)

I admire what you just did here.

Good post, especially the bolded part.

I think problems only come up between men and women when they stop thinking of each other as people. Of course there's going to be sexual attraction, and that's a very good and normal part of being human, it's only bad when that's the only value they think members of the opposite sex have. I can look at a guy, and admire how he looks, find his body appealing and him attractive without thinking of him as an object. And men can do the same.

There's this culture I've seen, and want no part of it, and it's based not on who you are, but what you do and how you look, and that's all they seem to care about. The guys that get way into the "typical guy" stuff, like fast cars and naked women etc. don't seem to even like women. They seem to be more interested in how they appear to other guys.

Great post!!!!

[Wittmont]

Diana wrote: "The guys that get way into the "typical guy" stuff, like fast cars and naked women etc. don't seem to even like women. They seem to be more interested in how they appear to other guys."

Good observation. On the other hand these types of guys seem to be attractive to women! At least according to this study: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...hs-850007.html

Why women really do love self-obsessed psychopaths

</EM>
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Thursday, 19 June 2008


Bad boys, it seems, really do get all the girls. Women might claim they want caring, thoughtful types but scientists have discovered what they really want – self-obsessed, lying psychopaths.




A study has found that men with the "dark triad" of traits – narcissism, thrill- seeking and deceitfulness – are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs.

etc.

[Creepy-]

Bad boys, it seems, really do get all the girls. Women might claim they want caring, thoughtful types but scientists have discovered what they really want – self-obsessed, lying psychopaths.




A study has found that men with the "dark triad" of traits – narcissism, thrill- seeking and deceitfulness – are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs.

etc.

Ugh. Those guys disgust me.

Perhaps it was women of the "victim" romance style who were studied?

[xyz]

Ugh. Those guys disgust me.

Perhaps it was women of the "victim" romance style who were studied?

I think it's more fucked up women in general that are attracted to that.

I could be wrong though.

[jessica129]

Ugh. Those guys disgust me.

Perhaps it was women of the "victim" romance style who were studied?

They're fun..to me anyways.

[Creepy-]

They're fun..to me anyways.

In what way?

[jessica129]

In what way?

They keep life interesting. They're different. They're a challenge.

[Sirena]

Ugh. Those guys disgust me.

Perhaps it was women of the "victim" romance style who were studied?

+1.

[Shazaam]

All the women I know like such a variety of guys that it's hard to say. Some women place more on sense of humor than anything else. Others get more out of guys that Jessica does. Just totally depends on the person.

[Ezra]

Although I knew this a long, long time ago, Isha reminded me of it yesterday; finding a partner is low on my agenda because I am sp/so instinctual variant in the Enneagram.

[Reuben]

Wait?

Never.

[cracka]

You know what I was probably wrong about a lot of stuff in that post (I'm sorry), but we all have our own preconceived notions on things based on experiences and it's up to us to cure that ignorance and find out what is actually real. Too bad drama and human relationships are a lot more interesting than boring facts, but you can only heal yourself with the latter.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt though lol, but I can admit when I was wrong. =)

Oh shit, I just found a bit of long lost respect for ya...lol. Really, I'm glad to see this post from you.

[xyz]

I don't think bad drama is more interesting than facts.

I think B&D is fulla bullshit. The bad kind.

[cracka]

I think having sex with someone doesn't mean you love them.

Werd.

I've seen men do the same thing: Have sex with a woman they find "self-obsessed" and "bad", but not wanting her for partnership.
Maybe women are the same?

lol, I can't say I've ever really thought about it, but no shit...lol. *guilty*

[jessica129]

All the women I know like such a variety of guys that it's hard to say. Some women place more on sense of humor than anything else. Others get more out of guys that Jessica does. Just totally depends on the person.

What?

[calenwen]

I'm waiting for my Dual.

Are you saying you would only date someone who was your dual? You would rule out all others?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[diljs]

you didn't ask me, if you permit me: definitely! a company, by default would not enter an unprofitable business. if someone has the time and interest to try them all could want non-compatibles partners, i have a lot of things to do and just don't have the time.

That's a great way of putting it!

Most people seem to think any relationship is profitable, but I disagree.

I'm Holding out for the 1 out of every 64 people (Dual, Fe Subtype, Female) who is single and around my age. So...if I meet like 3000 people...

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Ms. Kensington]

you didn't ask me, if you permit me: definitely! a company, by default would not enter an unprofitable business. if someone has the time and interest to try them all could want non-compatibles partners, i have a lot of things to do and just don't have the time.

only other relations are productive as well

edit: though maybe not all

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[redbaron]

I'm waiting for myself.

when I first read this, I caught my breath! You are sometimes so eloquent, Loki.

edit: I wonder--if I had really waited for myself, would I still be waiting? I guess my theory was (not conscious but more like in the back of my mind) that I would find myself somewhere along the path of life and that I knew enough to know that the man I had found would make a great partner. And although he's far from my dual (supervisee, actually), he's a really wonderful guy.

[calenwen]

That's a great way of putting it!

Most people seem to think any relationship is profitable, but I disagree.

I'm Holding out for the 1 out of every 64 people (Dual, Fe Subtype, Female) who is single and around my age. So...if I meet like 3000 people...

I suppose it's ironic that you were responding to my post then. Or something.

[diljs]

I suppose it's ironic that you were responding to my post then. Or something.

are you saying you meet my qualifications? :wink: