People should read that, multiple times.Originally Posted by Expat
Yes, I got an EII vibe from him. He reminded me of Munenori.
People should read that, multiple times.
Yes, I got an EII vibe from him. He reminded me of Munenori.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
...
Last edited by Suomea; 09-27-2008 at 05:18 PM.
Suomea
CUTe. (:<
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I can see how the first picture would give that impression.
When I first typed him I wondered a bit about ENFp, but INFj it is. IJ temperament, Si hidden agenda rather than as dual-seeking, Te as dual-seeking rather than as hidden agenda, Se PoLR, Ti role -- everything fits really.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
At first glance the second one looks a bit Se to me, like he has a bit of a sneer. I could be misreading it though.
Really? The thought would never occur to me. Interesting.
Still on that --
I'm sort of re-thinking my views on subtypes, but, if there are subtypes, he'd definitely be intuitive INFj rather than ethical INFj. He's far more like Meged's description of intuitive subtype than ethical subtype, and I don't think anyone could possibly mistake him for an ISFj. Also, if he were posting here, I think most of the time he'd be like Subterranean. So yes, a lot of.
@Minde: no, I know another INFj who's in a long-term relationship (not formally married, not that that's important) with an ISFj girl. In their cases, it's interesting because at first I thought they were both INFj, until I realized that he was more like INFj intuitive, and she's more like ISFj ethical. So it is useful to think of subtypes for practical purposes.
I think I am going to use this guy as my INFj VI comparison point from now on. I don't think I currently have interactions with any INFjs. Were you trying to signal Ne/intuition with the first pic and Fi with the second pic? I was almost going to say that the second pic is Fi because it gives the the "laser beam" vibe i.e. that he is trying to establish contact with me and sincerely wants to get to know me and hear what I have to say. He wants a piece of me in a way.
I am not sure how would I react to that. It is somehow very admiring but at the same time makes me feel awkward. Because I know that if I give him a piece of me he soon comes looking for more. And more. And it never ends. Soon he would know everything about me and then I would be completely vulnerable to his judgment. That makes me feel insecure. That is why I would perhaps initially open up to his inviting eyes but soon realize I feel naked and insecure and "retreat". And never do it again. And that would puzzle him I guess. Well, that's what I think would happen but I wouldn't know for sure.
I'd have said ENFp-Fi from the pics
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I wasn't trying to signal anything in particular; we were drinking coffee together and I had the idea of taking a picture, with the first one as a "surprise" and the second one more posed.
Because of his "fixed" features, or of how he comes across?
Is he an early bird or not? From V.I. only ENFp is a better bet than INFj.
I think I more based on his fixed features; the rounder egdes-nose (not that I think there's a strict relationship between P-J and round-sharp, but it may provide a clue); I think it's mostly because I've only known ectomorphic INFjs, so I was not familiar with such a look.
Though if I think about it, munenori has somewhat similar features.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I think he's an ectomorph-mesomorph. When I met him he was 25 and much thinner, and was closer to the more typical "ectomorph INFj look"; in more recent years he has put on a lot of weight, which has also rounded up his face to a certain extent.
Yes, he gives me a rather strong impression of being an irrational type, and I would also think that EP is more likely than IP, based on V.I. I don't find a perfect match with any of my memorized EP type looks, but ENFp is my primary bet, partly because I think he has the rather typical look that I associate with many ENXps. When I compare all of the type looks I cannot find a match with any of the SP (or SJ) types, so I can draw no other reasonable conclusion than that he really does seem to be be an N type.
I agree completely. All the INFjs (and INTjs too for that matter) that I have met in real life have been clearly ectomorphic. That's why I am still skeptical and not convinced that there can exist an INFj that is not ectomorphic.
But if Expat can say that the guy is clearly an early bird and not a night owl, then I just might accept the possibility that he is an INFj, and in that case I might decide to add his look to the group of possible INFj looks.
ok phaeudrus, he is obviously an ENFp or something other than INFj because you say so from 2 photos which aren't that great and Expat must therefore be incorrect about a human beings type that he is friends with and (presumably) known for years.
In other words, why on earth you think it matters wether you "accept" wether he is INFj or not, just shows that you will argue even on issues such as this, never mind bigger picture discussions where you are always so convinced you are right...and therefore often even less worth entertaining your viewpoints perhaps?
Are you acting like an idiot again, Cyclops? Didn't you understand the content of my post? Expat is obviously in a much better position to type the guy than I am, and I said that I might accept him as an INFj, if Expat could say that the guy is an early bird and not a night owl. I have never said that I am totally convinced that the guy is an ENFp, and neither have I said that he must be an ENFp.
Why on earth do you think that I would have the stupid belief that it would matter to other people whether I happen to accept the guy as an INFj or not? Of course it doesn't matter to most people, but it matters a hell of a lot to me if the guy is an early bird or a night owl. It's probably the crucial point that could potentially make me have to revise my view on the looks of INFjs in general. Only if the guy is a night owl, I will believe that Expat has probably mistyped him.
I have known him since 1996, when we shared an office, which we did for about 6 months. I have never lost contact with him since then, even if we were often living far apart.
I could of course be wrong about his type (due to being wrong about socionics), but I wrote the bulk of the IJ and Infantile descriptions in the Wiki, and I wrote them knowing that they matched that guy well.
But, I did take a look at what Phaedrus wrote. On the "early bird" thingy: all things being equal, I think his inclination is to have regular sleeping hours, that is, going to bed early-ish so he can get up early enough to have breakfast etc before going to work. However, he has also been known to do stuff like going for overnight "DVD marathons" - that is, watch the whole Dune and Children of Dune mini-series in one go, or become so enthusiastic about a new videogame that he'd play it non-stop until 2am.
Together, before he got married, we did stuff like spending time in the Edinburgh Fringe Festival (Cyclops will know what I'm talking about) and decide at the last moment to watch a musical on Stalin that would start at midnight.
Since I've never really lived with him, I don't know for sure but I think that he mostly prefers to have a full night's sleep and wake up early to have the use of the full day.
I don't buy the "early bird" thing, by the way. I have seen enough examples to the contrary. For instance, Rick is an early bird, and I think the evidence of his being ENFp is more important.
Do you seriously type people based on their preferred hours of sleeping?
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Are you absolutely sure that Rick is not a night owl, and that he is correctly called an early bird? If Rick really is an early bird, that is a very important piece of information. It would be the first clear counter-example (unless Rick is mistyped, which is not very likely) to the general hypothesis that I have so far come across.
I find myself one who can both get up early and stay up late. If I have something I am doing I will stay up late, but I like to get up early (obviously not for work because that's boring) but I like to get up early if I'm running or cycling to get the benefit of the morning. Sometimes I will stay up late and get up late anyway.
What does this mean? That I am therefore both? :confused Cyclops emoticon!:
As far as Rick is concerned, I have now met him on three different occasions, always for 2 or 3 days, on socionics meetings. Not sure if those who met him in New York or Boston will confirm it, but whenever I've met him, he was usually one of the people who will insist on going to the hotel early so that he can get up early in the morning to take a walk etc before meeting people.
However, he will also do things like spend the whole night (or almost) discussing socionics with Igor Weisband if the opportunity arises.
Expat, I believe you that your friend is INFJ.
I thought ENFP over INFJ for 2 reasons.
1. The second picture seems more "head on" than I would expect from an INFJ. I find it incredibly uncomfortable to take pictures like this and usually have to tilt or hug someone near me. Though, I suppose your friend may be more comfortable with appearance related things being older and male?
2. The first picture is a look that I think is pretty common to both types. I think ENFPs do that same look away thing frequently and with short duration during the course of a convo. INFJs do it less frequently, with a longer duration and it usually occurs in complete pauses of the convo as if the INFJ has almost forgotten there's someone in front of him and has just decided to go into his own head for a certain amount of time. I thought that your friend's pic had more of the ENFP urgency about it. Can you tell me if the behavior I'm describing sounds like your friend's?
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
What that means exactly is hard to tell.
But that sounds more like night owl behaviour, and is at least not typical of early birds.
It doesn't mean a thing. The information you provide is clearly insufficient to determine whether you are a night owl or an early bird.
http://www.nightowlnet.com/archive03.htm
http://www.nightowlnet.com/archive04.htm
http://www.nightowlnet.com/archive05.htm
An indication of what you probably are is your normal body temperature when you go to bed compared to when you wake up in the morning. I have a clear tendency to be warmer when I go to bed (usually late at night) than when I wake up, whereas my ISFj partner almost always feel sligthly frozen when she gets to bed but is warmer when she wakes up in the morning.
Expat, I'm sorry if this is clogging up your thread, and I will delete post(s) if necessary. What you say about body temperature Phaedrus, it's been my experience that body temperature is of course related to body fat level, general metabolism also, and i tend to notice that girls feel the cold more than guys (sorry if that's wrong girls) so when you refer to yourself and you're partner, it's not really saying much from these reasons.
PS Thank you for links..I will have to peruse them later due to time constraints on day activities
Nothing much I can say on that, and I'm not sure how much effort he needed for that picture. It was just a moment.
The "less urgent, longer pauses" behavior is more like him, and more IJ than EP generally.
As we were discussing in another thread, there is often (well, often enough to write about, at least,) a difference in body type in the ENFp subtypes: Fi (thin/athletic body type,) Ne (carry more weight.) These aren't hard rules, but there does seem to be something to the characterization, (re: male ENFps anyway.)
Expat's friend doesn't look like any ENFp I've ever typed... That said, hypothetically, if Expat had told us that his friend was ENFp, I'd guess that he was more likely Ne-ENFp than Fi-ENFp... Not based on the body type alone, but the physiognomy too.
INFjs, (both subtypes,) I've noticed, are often thin--especially young INFjs. (males) I know an older INFj (in his 50s) who's become pretty large, haha--he was stick thin when he was younger though... I'm not sure that I know a Fi-INFj male, so I don't have much basis for comparison, but I know a Ne-INFj who looks pretty similar to Expat's friend, (albeit ectomorph body type.)
FWIW, as to Phadrus' point about being a night owl--I'm not sure about other ENFps, but I definitely am.
The thing about body temperature is not my invention. It is a part of what it means to be a night owl or an early bird. You can read about it in articles and studies about the phenomenon.
Reply With Quote
