Joy's interminable coolness: Kam is Delta?

[Mediator Kam]

you are a sweet man. any girl would be lucky to "catch" you.

thanks a lot

Victim critique:

* prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person

Never. I always know when I like someone, and it is always very strong. But maybe I might doubt my feelings right in the beginning, idk, but it soon turns into what I described.

* not always confident about revealing that interest

True.

* inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest

I guess, I want someone to want me back, obviously.

* inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time

Well yes, I want someone to stay and not leave, but I wouldn't worry about that. If she's the right one and we're mature enough, we can work through any issues. Kinda idealistic I know.

* preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like

Oh yeah I love my huge women yep. One that intimidates me.

* appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
* this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion
* in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"

I'd be very very very devoted to my woman, I would never talk to any other woman with a keen eye on them. I have a responsibility for my girl, and no one else is going to get in my way. I really am what you call a "one-woman man". I don't want her to be "mean" and hit me, I'm doing service for her, and I'm not keen on her hitting me and I'm supposed to get turned on by that.

* inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

Call me chauvinistic, but I feel weird about saying a girl dumped me. Maybe I'm just immature.

[Joy]

I might have been exaggerating a little, but the idea of the woman being dominant or I being dominant doesn't ring true for me. I would like to take care of my wife, get her some toast and stuff, things like that.

I maintain that Ni/Se is not about dominance... but what you're saying does sound more Ne/Si than Ni/Se.

I'm not trying to argue a case for or against any particular type for you, btw... I initially brought up the possibility that you're not SEI because Jem struck me as IEE and I thought you two had identified with each other. At this point I'm not really sure what type I think you are. You do have a quality that SEI's I've observed don't though... and they have a quality you don't. But then again, there could be other explanations.

[Mediator Kam]

I maintain that Ni/Se is not about dominance... but what you're saying does sound more Ne/Si than Ni/Se.

I'm not trying to argue a case for or against any particular type for you, btw... I initially brought up the possibility that you're not SEI because Jem struck me as IEE and I thought you two had identified with each other. At this point I'm not really sure what type I think you are. You do have a quality that SEI's I've observed don't though... and they have a quality you don't. But then again, there could be other explanations.

Thank you.

On a more personal note, I have noticed I am a declarer, not an asker. I re-read my writing, and I seem to just come out with statement after statement(very dryly and never backed up mind you), never really asking or pondering anything.

[Joy]

I seem to just come out with statement after statement(very dryly and never backed up mind you), never really asking or pondering anything.

Now who does that remind me of...

[Mediator Kam]

Now who does that remind me of...

I have no clue. Phaedrus comes to mind.

[Joy]

Here's a hint.

[Mediator Kam]

I see, my dominant elements are .

ok so i'm ENTj now. oh wait i'm still victim.

did you see my victim rant on page 10?

[Joy]

I see, my dominant elements are .

ok so i'm ENTj now.

oh wait i'm still victim.

did you see my victim rant on page 10?

Post #100, or before that?

[Mediator Kam]

post 100, nice catch i missed that.

i am still a bit unsure. I almost never think about the future. To me, it seems like the future is one big blank tablet, emptiness, devoid of any real meaning. I always think about today, the present. I see no point in worrying about tomorrow, because it is not happening now. Now of course, you need to plan for some things, like college and tests, but with those I think about working on a day to day basis.

[Joy]

That's good.

Not long ago I would have said in response that you're not a Ni type. And maybe you're not. Did you ever end up looking into EII? (Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread. I was away for a couple of days, and now it's far greater is size than my attention span is.)

[Gilly]

I don't know, kam...a lot of the stuff you mentioned sounds irrelevant to me, but I'm not really up for dragging this out.

[Mediator Kam]

I don't know, kam...a lot of the stuff you mentioned sounds irrelevant to me, but I'm not really up for dragging this out.

Not fitting with victim is irrelevant? not acting Ni is irrelevant? alright.

Joy, I looked into EII before IEI. I consider it much more of a match than IEI def, maybe even more of a match than SEI, but I am nothing like Mr. Rogers and I don't believe I am IJ temperament either.

[Joy]

I am nothing like Mr. Rogers

[Mediator Kam]

It's true.

And Gilly, sorry I'm not as good at Socionics as you are. I missed the connection you made to the beta aristocracy and me being all emo groupy.

I am definitely a democrat. I define myself through myself(along with others), not by a group.

[Joy]

I honestly can't say that my EII sister has ever reminded me of Mr. Rogers (or vice versa).

[Mediator Kam]

I honestly can't say that my EII sister has ever reminded me of Mr. Rogers (or vice versa).

I meant his way of speaking. Elro showed me a video of him talking to the supreme court or congress, not sure which, and his manner of speaking was unlike mine entirely. His voice was monotone, and he spoke with so much heart and so much non-humor throughout(non-valued Fe I would suppose). That is not who I am.

btw Gilly, thanks a lot bro, I think we were all confused for a while. I get out of social contact for a while and I forget who I am.

[Rubicon]

I'm not trying to argue a case for or against any particular type for you, btw... I initially brought up the possibility that you're not SEI because Jem struck me as IEE and I thought you two had identified with each other. At this point I'm not really sure what type I think you are. You do have a quality that SEI's I've observed don't though... and they have a quality you don't. But then again, there could be other explanations.

I don't relate to Kam so much in the sense of thinking or feeling alike. I've always felt that Dolphin and I are identicals, and that's like knowing exactly what she means, what her intent is, feeling the same way about issues ... and that sort of thing. I don't feel that at all with Kam. We get along well more because we bounce off of each other, because of our differences, which make for good discussions. The things we agree on are mostly to do with theories or principles, never feelings.

[FDG]

Oh shit Joy, you make such a mess of everything. It would be so much better if people never listened to any suggestion made by you, since you're probably the source of the greatest majority of mis-typings of people on the board.

[Mediator Kam]

Oh shit Joy, you make such a mess of everything. It would be so much better if people never listened to any suggestion made by you, since you're probably the source of the greatest majority of mis-typings of people on the board.

Hey that's not very nice to Joy, even if that is the truth.

I don't relate to Kam so much in the sense of thinking or feeling alike. I've always felt that Dolphin and I are identicals, and that's like knowing exactly what she means, what her intent is, feeling the same way about issues ... and that sort of thing. I don't feel that at all with Kam. We get along well more because we bounce off of each other, because of our differences, which make for good discussions. The things we agree on are mostly to do with theories or principles, never feelings.

Exactly, Jem is more conservative in how she feels about things, but we concur on ideas. She's a feeling weirdo you know, only I can feel the right way about everything.

[Mea]

thanks a lot

Victim critique:


Never. I always know when I like someone, and it is always very strong. But maybe I might doubt my feelings right in the beginning, idk, but it soon turns into what I described.

True.

I guess, I want someone to want me back, obviously.

Well yes, I want someone to stay and not leave, but I wouldn't worry about that. If she's the right one and we're mature enough, we can work through any issues. Kinda idealistic I know.

Oh yeah I love my huge women yep. One that intimidates me.

I'd be very very very devoted to my woman, I would never talk to any other woman with a keen eye on them. I have a responsibility for my girl, and no one else is going to get in my way. I really am what you call a "one-woman man". I don't want her to be "mean" and hit me, I'm doing service for her, and I'm not keen on her hitting me and I'm supposed to get turned on by that.


Call me chauvinistic, but I feel weird about saying a girl dumped me. Maybe I'm just immature.

where did you get that description??

[Mediator Kam]

where did you get that description??

wait what? I wrote what you quoted last night, but I was basing it off what was written off the victim page on wikisocion.

[Mea]

wait what? I wrote what you quoted last night, but I was basing it off what was written off the victim page on wikisocion.

wikisocion victim page?? never saw that. thanks.

[Joy]

even if that is the truth.

It's not. I've made a lot of incorrect suggestions regarding possibilities for people's types, but that's all they are... suggestions of possibilities for consideration.

I see patterns and breaks in patterns more than anything (things that fit or don't fit into different temperaments, dichotomies, quadra values, etc.), and my "typings" are more often than not things like "sensory and logical, possibly rational" and "Fe/Ti, introverted, probably LSI" than actual specific types (even if I do mention a possible type).

Usually when I'm pointing out a break in a pattern (something that could point away from a temperament, dichotomy, quadra value, etc.) I specifically mention that it's possible that there's another explanation for what I'm seeing.

FDG's just pissed because when I did this with his former "general concensus" (and self) typing of LIE, it cause people (himself included) to question that typing. At this point most people see (independent of my input) that LIE just doesn't make sense for him. It appears that he blames me for this. (I'm guessing he's going to say something along the lines of "no, it's got nothing to do with that, you just suck". )

Anyways, my tendency to question people's types does nothing more than point out possibilities. It's up to individuals to consider or not consider such possibilities and come to their own conclusions.

[Rubicon]

Exactly, Jem is more conservative in how she feels about things, but we concur on ideas. She's a feeling weirdo you know, only I can feel the right way about everything.

Since when could feelings be classified as conservative? You either feel a certain way, or you don't. But your feelings are wacko for the record.

[FDG]

It's not. I've made a lot of incorrect suggestions regarding possibilities for people's types, but that's all they are... suggestions of possibilities for consideration.

I see patterns and breaks in patterns more than anything (things that fit or don't fit into different temperaments, dichotomies, quadra values, etc.), and my "typings" are more often than not things like "sensory and logical, possibly rational" and "Fe/Ti, introverted, probably LSI" than actual specific types (even if I do mention a possible type).

Usually when I'm pointing out a break in a pattern (something that could point away from a temperament, dichotomy, quadra value, etc.) I specifically mention that it's possible that there's another explanation for what I'm seeing.

FDG's just pissed because when I did this with his former "general concensus" (and self) typing of LIE, it cause people (himself included) to question that typing. At this point most people see (independent of my input) that LIE just doesn't make sense for him. It appears that he blames me for this. (I'm guessing he's going to say something along the lines of "no, it's got nothing to do with that, you just suck". )

Anyways, my tendency to question people's types does nothing more than point out possibilities. It's up to individuals to consider or not consider such possibilities and come to their own conclusions.

No, no, no, I am not (only) pissed for that. It is something that you do on a systematical basis, mistinterpreting information and spreading the "virus" (the incorrect information) around here. You're probably the main cause of the confusion in the western socionics community, that is why I dislike you so much. There was a lot of potential for this theory, but you ruined many things. Yes, I reacted just the way you predicted, but it's because it is what I really think - to be factually accureate, I used to act this way against you even when you did not question my LIE typing, so that is another piece of incorrect information you're spreading around. Jesus.

[Mediator Kam]

No arguing guys, and Joy I was never accusing you of anything. Your typings are not perfect of course, but I think you carry a very strong grasp of socionics.

I don't believe it is true.

[Joy]

No arguing guys, and Joy I was never accusing you of anything. Your typings are not perfect of course, but I think you carry a very strong grasp of socionics.

I don't believe it is true.

Yeah. Anyone who believes their (or anyone else's) typings to be perfect has a major stumbling block in their path toward understanding Socionics (or pretty much anything, really) that can only be removed by changing that manner of thinking.

You're probably the main cause of the confusion in the western socionics community

Wow, that's a pretty big accomplishment. I didn't know I had it in me.

FDG, I don't really even know what your understanding of Socionics consists of, so I don't really even know where the differences in our understandings of the theory lie. You don't post about Model A, information elements, etc. very often, and when you do you don't say much about them. I don't think that investigating this further will accomplish anything worthwhile, so I'll have to take your word for it that our understandings of the theory are "diametrically opposed".