Se PoLR of INFjs and INTjs

[Radio]

ITT people who are not Se-polr describing what they think is supposed to be Se-polr

[darya]

Did anyone else just see the REAL darya? I did.

Excuse moi?

[mercer]

ITT people who are not Se-polr describing what they think is supposed to be Se-polr

oh heavens! oh dear no!!

I was so sure this thread was for all members to post in -shame-

[Radio]

oh heavens! oh dear no!!

I was so sure this thread was for all members to post in -shame-

you just got snarky Se-polrized

[silke]

ITT people who are not Se-polr describing what they think is supposed to be Se-polr

waiting for Radio to describe what he cannot see *insert a mandatory lol*

[mercer]

you just got snarky Se-polrized

it will be so

even lightweight leafpeople must hold power somehow, no?

[Radio]

i have struggled with passivity and i have struggled with getting the wrong order and rolling with it, mostly because of social anxiety and being more or less an elective mute.

i think Se-polr types do have a certain way of going around things, rather than across or through things. they IME have a tendency to wait more, to deliberate more, to "wait for their turn", to get a chance to speak rather than seizing it, to get stuck in mental infinite loops of should-i-should-i-not, and generally being by-the-book literal about rules and customs because it's confusing and difficult when rules are dynamic and change within the moment. like it confuses the fuck out of me when there aren't any explicit signs, and explicit ways of dealing with new situations, and i have to ask for excruciatingly thorough details beforehand about where things are and how to approach people so i would know the implicit "rules" of the situation before diving in, almost as if i'm writing a script in my head.

but i also think there is some overlap between that and general INXx behavior and social anxiety, so i'm not entirely sure where to draw the lines.

also just for the record, now when i get the wrong order, i let them know it was wrong but it's ok, generally because i don't want to wait another 15 minutes for them to cook the meal all over again, but i let them know so the waiter/server would know why i did not tip them (b/c they fucked up). so i think this sort of resilient stand over issues is one way to make it "work".

[Radio]

correction: i should have said selective mute and that i have struggled with these things in the past, but not to the same extent (i.e. i'm slowly getting better) for the last 5 years or so.

[silke]

i have struggled with passivity and i have struggled with getting the wrong order and rolling with it, mostly because of social anxiety and being more or less an elective mute.

i think Se-polr types do have a certain way of going around things, rather than across or through things. they IME have a tendency to wait more, to deliberate more, to "wait for their turn", to get a chance to speak rather than seizing it, to get stuck in mental infinite loops of should-i-should-i-not, and generally being by-the-book literal about rules and customs because it's confusing and difficult when rules are dynamic and change within the moment. like it confuses the fuck out of me when there aren't any explicit signs, and explicit ways of dealing with new situations, and i have to ask for excruciatingly thorough details beforehand about where things are and how to approach people so i would know the implicit "rules" of the situation before diving in, almost as if i'm writing a script in my head.

but i also think there is some overlap between that and general INXx behavior and social anxiety, so i'm not entirely sure where to draw the lines.

also just for the record, now when i get the wrong order, i let them know it was wrong but it's ok, generally because i don't want to wait another 15 minutes for them to cook the meal all over again, but i let them know so the waiter/server would know why i did not tip them (b/c they fucked up). so i think this sort of resilient stand over issues is one way to make it "work".

I tend to get into the same kind of analysis-paralysis loops.

It's soc-last kind of ordeal afaik rather than Se-PoLR.

SO Instinct

~ ability to adapt behavior
reading people and adapting behavior
(sp wants other stuff to adapt to the self; soc is willing to adapt self in light of others' needs).
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...notes-sp-so-sx

soc-last doesn't have that kind of adaptability. in a conversation they have no clue when to interject and speak up or "wait for their turn". there' a general lack of adapting to social situations.

[shakealittle]

Se creative here, what I notice in EIIs....

My dad takes forever to make a decision. We now joke about it within the family that if he wants to buy a car in 2 years time, he'd better start researching now because he will think of all the options and consider all the features of the car. I will yell, 'there is no such thing as a perfect car, just choose the one you want/suits you the most.'

One father's day we bought him an iPad, at first he was happy to get it. Then, he starts to consider taking it back to get a different model for reasons x, y and z. My advice, 'gosh can't you just be happy with getting one and playing around on it, exploring the features, downloading apps etc. this was the one you wrote down on the list you gave us. we bought this for you to enjoy and can't because you're researching all the others on it!'

My colleague at work is on the same professional level as me, yet get he gets all the left over jobs that other people don't want. Someone approaches him to ask him to perform a task which makes it that little bit longer/harder and it's not really necessary. He accepts the job with reassuring words/body language. In my head I say to myself 'why did you just do that? at the very least, i wouldn't display that i'm happy to do that for them. i would act a bit colder to them, then i would adjust to a more abrupt demeanour to show them the consequence of asking me to do that. why are you setting a precedent that it's ok to do that to you?'

Then the worst is my other colleague who overdoes their Se polr(?) I swear that is the worst Se around because you can't really give it back to them because they don't even recognise it (?if that makes sense), they are so focused on pushing their opinions for every little thing, being 'heard'. If something took too long on the computer to download, I hear her complain about it. I say to myself 'get over it, why are you complaining about that stupid thing? ACCEPT it. NO big deal' We will be a meeting with executives and she will complain about something which puts the powers that be down. I am puzzled 'why would she do that, doesn't she know who she's' talking to? I would never be direct about it, especially to them in front of people. would go through people x y and z to get to them'
Then she goes out of her way to do work not related to her job, the boss is not happy about this and reminds her to do things delegated to her instead. Boss walks away. She will continue doing the other jobs anyway, fully aware the manager isn't happy about it.

[ClownsandEntropy]

i have struggled with passivity and i have struggled with getting the wrong order and rolling with it, mostly because of social anxiety and being more or less an elective mute.

i think Se-polr types do have a certain way of going around things, rather than across or through things. they IME have a tendency to wait more, to deliberate more, to "wait for their turn", to get a chance to speak rather than seizing it, to get stuck in mental infinite loops of should-i-should-i-not, and generally being by-the-book literal about rules and customs because it's confusing and difficult when rules are dynamic and change within the moment. like it confuses the fuck out of me when there aren't any explicit signs, and explicit ways of dealing with new situations, and i have to ask for excruciatingly thorough details beforehand about where things are and how to approach people so i would know the implicit "rules" of the situation before diving in, almost as if i'm writing a script in my head.

but i also think there is some overlap between that and general INXx behavior and social anxiety, so i'm not entirely sure where to draw the lines.

also just for the record, now when i get the wrong order, i let them know it was wrong but it's ok, generally because i don't want to wait another 15 minutes for them to cook the meal all over again, but i let them know so the waiter/server would know why i did not tip them (b/c they fucked up). so i think this sort of resilient stand over issues is one way to make it "work".

I tend to pretty wait more, wait more, etc., but when it comes to by-the-book I can chafe under too many rules and things I need to do: "Nah trust me I don't need to do this, I'll come if I need to." I'm also not one to campaign for rules to be kept the same (necessarily, except for when we're making a decision about stuff, in which case I love my process and I'll champion it if appropriate). I think I like having instructions on how to do things as much as any 20ish-year-old who is terrible at living because he hasn't had to learn it before.

And I'm not that passive. If they get the order wrong at a pricey restaurant I'm going to tell them and expect them to get it right. If I'm out with friends and more self-conscious about kicking up a fuss I'll just stick with it and - almostly obstinately - refuse to complain. It's actually an interesting combination of Se-polr aspects: I don't want to complain cos I don't like conflict; and I don't want to give in to my friends demands cos I don't like being forced to do stuff.

My ESE friend has told me she knows to give in in a debate if I pause and say "See, the thing is..." because I'm not going to be assertive enough to say I can't be persuaded, but I'm also too anti-being-controlled to actually be persuaded.

[FDG]

Many of the things that here are being written about EIIs are valid for ESIs too, so let´s be careful not to conflate behaviors that may be connected to different "causes".

[ashlesha]

Many of the things that here are being written about EIIs are valid for ESIs too, so let´s be careful not to conflate behaviors that may be connected to different "causes".

i don't relate to anything in this thread specifically, but there are times people have encouraged me to be more assertive and i just haven't really thought it was worth it. but maybe an Se ego would think it was? like, everybody tells me i should tell the invasively awkward maintenance guy at work to stop talking to me. but he's awkward with everyone, i only see him a couple times a week tops, and he won't be around anymore after the company moves. he's not going to assault me or anything. he just makes me uncomfortable every once in awhile. and confronting him would just increase the discomfort without a huge payoff. i complain about it anyway, so maybe it gives people the impression that its worse than it actually is. but thats just one example. in general, i rarely confront people in those sorts of situations unless i feel an urgent, immediate need. but there are times people tell me, "you should be more assertive."

[Beautiful sky]

i don't relate to anything in this thread specifically, but there are times people have encouraged me to be more assertive and i just haven't really thought it was worth it. but maybe an Se ego would think it was? like, everybody tells me i should tell the invasively awkward maintenance guy at work to stop talking to me. but he's awkward with everyone, i only see him a couple times a week tops, and he won't be around anymore after the company moves. he's not going to assault me or anything. he just makes me uncomfortable every once in awhile. and confronting him would just increase the discomfort without a huge payoff. i complain about it anyway, so maybe it gives people the impression that its worse than it actually is. but thats just one example. in general, i rarely confront people in those sorts of situations unless i feel an urgent, immediate need.

What you wrote is Se ego exactly. Which is that you do know what the payoffs of the confrontation or the conflict would be so you don't confront and this is because you apprehend his static qualities as you've stated above that he's "he'ss awkward with everyone". I can't often see these static qualities. I miss them and shoot for objective perameters like "he should be nice" which is Te ideal. I would just obsess about the possibilities of what was going on and trying to understand why that person was mean but most importantly I would actively work on bringing the relations between myself and the other person together as to resolve the conflict unless he betrayed me. I feel the immediate need to close off psychological distance and it does bother my own feelings. Sometimes i hang around the person just to listen in on their convo and try to find an angle to which I can relate and hope that if i made a comment of my own like "oh i love art...i too paint" that they would find a fascination with me and interact with me on a friendly level.

[FDG]

@lungs I was thinking about these two examples:

My dad takes forever to make a decision. We now joke about it within the family that if he wants to buy a car in 2 years time, he'd better start researching now because he will think of all the options and consider all the features of the car. I will yell, 'there is no such thing as a perfect car, just choose the one you want/suits you the most.'

I've seen many ESIs displaying this trait, maybe not 2 years but they can be really bad at making quick decisions.

My colleague at work is on the same professional level as me, yet get he gets all the left over jobs that other people don't want. Someone approaches him to ask him to perform a task which makes it that little bit longer/harder and it's not really necessary. He accepts the job with reassuring words/body language. In my head I say to myself 'why did you just do that? at the very least, i wouldn't display that i'm happy to do that for them. i would act a bit colder to them, then i would adjust to a more abrupt demeanour to show them the consequence of asking me to do that. why are you setting a precedent that it's ok to do that to you?'

I've also seen ESIs doing this because they may think that it's more convenient to make the other person happy as opposed to focussing on how their work may become "harder". Not to an extreme extent though, they lash out after a while.

[ashlesha]

oh yeah, i've done that second thing. i think it pays off in the long-run if my coworkers appreciate it and see me as helpful and non-whiny.

[bolong]

Great thread!

[blackburry]

I can def be passive at times..esp with unknown territory.. as I don't want to look like a total idiot and/or I seriously am not sure what I'm to do. I've had orders wrong before and have said nothing- but if I go with it...I refuse to complain about it to anyone because it's my own fault for not saying anything. A huge pet peeve of mine is people who do not speak up about what is bothering them but then complain to everyone else... so if something bothers me, I'll say something or I'll drop it. If there's hair in my food I trash it and get out of there

I do not like whininess. I can put up with for a very brief amount of time and then I just can't listen to it anymore and excuse myself. (To me there is a difference between whining about insignificant things and actually being upset over something that has dire consequences).


I have noticed that LIIs suck at confrontation. One in particular lied to me about rediculously abartary things to avoid hurting my feelings over something.. I eventually got to the point of asking what was up..and he only admitted to it when I asked if that's what he was doing. He apologized ...and did the same thing a few days later. That was fun...

[Becca]

It's so funny because I met an ESI and we became friendly, and I noticed that we were both Fi base but something about her was different. It became apparent when we had both gotten into a challenge and I just backed away defeated, while she argued and fought to get her place.
After that, I cracked jokes about how we both clearly lost but she was still angry and willing to argue till the end.
I walked away realizing how vastly different we really were. I like to think that ESI are more "masculine" underneath and EII are feminine.

[Beautiful sky]

I think people with Se ego realize objects and people in their environment and want to mobilize them move them control thwm in some way. I know an SEE friend who will move or toss her bf's stuff. When it comes to stuff in my environment I just try to organize it and keep it as steady as possible. With other people's stuff I ask and if I don't get a response I leave it alone or put it in a safe place away from possibly damaging things like water or sunlight. I try to take good care of other people's stuff because they like it or want it that's why they have it. Stuff in my surrounding does not bother me and I have no need to move things and diarupt status quo unless and untill I'm either asked to do so or employed to do so.

[ClownsandEntropy]

I do not like whininess. I can put up with for a very brief amount of time and then I just can't listen to it anymore and excuse myself. (To me there is a difference between whining about insignificant things and actually being upset over something that has dire consequences).

I have noticed that LIIs suck at confrontation. One in particular lied to me about rediculously abartary things to avoid hurting my feelings over something.. I eventually got to the point of asking what was up..and he only admitted to it when I asked if that's what he was doing. He apologized ...and did the same thing a few days later. That was fun...

...We...probably shouldn't hang out.

[xerx]

Don't most people stand waiting at the counter till they get noticed, at least for a reasonable amount of time? I thought it was just the polite thing to do.

[bolong]

Originally Posted by blackburry
I do not like whininess. I can put up with for a very brief amount of time and then I just can't listen to it anymore and excuse myself. (To me there is a difference between whining about insignificant things and actually being upset over something that has dire consequences).

I have noticed that LIIs suck at confrontation. One in particular lied to me about rediculously abartary things to avoid hurting my feelings over something.. I eventually got to the point of asking what was up..and he only admitted to it when I asked if that's what he was doing. He apologized ...and did the same thing a few days later. That was fun...
...We...probably shouldn't hang out.

Yeah, probably wouldn't get along with someone who doesn't like the rediculously aBARtary things in life.

[xerx]

snip

Khomeini and Robespierre were both LII, ideologically assertive and tyrannical.

[blackburry]

...We...probably shouldn't hang out.

Lol. we got along for the most part but he was a total flakey boss. And I knew he didn't mean to be, he was just super anxious about things often ...overthought them. It was eerie to watch the only thing calm him down was his EXFJ housekeeper. She'd let him ramble for hours and would just laugh at everything he said and tease him.

[blackburry]

Yeah, probably wouldn't get along with someone who doesn't like the rediculously aBARtary things in life.

I'm an awful speller. Unfortunately I always have been.. I have to type out "diarrhea" at work at least once a day. and I still can never spell it correctly. (<<<THAT WAS SPELLCHECK).


Also, the random things he lied about were very small and...not of consequence..just found it confusing why he'd lie when it was blatantly obvious. anywho, still think he's a decent person.

[willekeurig]

I tend to get into the same kind of analysis-paralysis loops.

It's soc-last kind of ordeal afaik rather than Se-PoLR.

soc-last doesn't have that kind of adaptability. in a conversation they have no clue when to interject and speak up or "wait for their turn". there' a general lack of adapting to social situations.

Interesting, I always blamed this on my Se polr too.

[Skepsis]

This thread has been very helpful to me. I'm thinking that Se polr is a good possibility for myself. At work, in the cafeteria, there is this bell that sits on top of the counter. It's primary job in life is to be struck when no one is available to help you. Most of the time I won't ring it right away. I will wait until the employee comes back from whatever it is they are doing. There are a few exceptions, like the few times I really am in a hurry or if the employees seems to be really taking their sweet time. I'll wait a good 2 or 3 minutes without any real agitation. Sometimes the pressure of people being in a hurry in line behind me will force me to ring the bell sooner than I otherwise would.

I will often tell people to take their time as well. I hope they won't opt to drag it out, but I don't mind waiting a bit either. I really don't enjoy that feeling of people rushing to get done some task that is of very little importance in the grand scheme of things.

[anndelise]

This thread has been very helpful to me. I'm thinking that Se polr is a good possibility for myself. At work, in the cafeteria, there is this bell that sits on top of the counter. It's primary job in life is to be struck when no one is available to help you. Most of the time I won't ring it right away. I will wait until the employee comes back from whatever it is they are doing. There are a few exceptions, like the few times I really am in a hurry or if the employees seems to be really taking their sweet time. I'll wait a good 2 or 3 minutes without any real agitation. Sometimes the pressure of people being in a hurry in line behind me will force me to ring the bell sooner than I otherwise would.

I will often tell people to take their time as well. I hope they won't opt to drag it out, but I don't mind waiting a bit either. I really don't enjoy that feeling of people rushing to get done some task that is of very little importance in the grand scheme of things.

That might be weak Se, e9 related, or general courteousness. Definitely not just Se polr.
I don't like bothering people for myself. But will do so if needed to help someone else. Ringing the bell not only hurts my ears, but is surely annoying to have to answer to. Though I can also see the answerer feeling guilt/anxiety for having inadvertently made someone else wait when they had actually just been trying to kill time.

[ashlesha]

i don't see the big deal. the bell is there to be rung. it would be obnoxious to bang on it repeatedly or something. i've never worked anywhere with a bell, but i imagine i'd rather say "i'll just be a moment" to someone who rung the bell than turn around and see that someone had been standing there staring at me for god knows how long.

[Skepsis]

It's funny that the bell is being mentioned, as I was just today thinking we should have one at that place. Preferably with a sign above with a big arrow pointing to the bell and reading "By all means, assert yourself!"

A could push such a bell with confidence.

[Minde]

Anyway, I had a fun encounter today again. Friday is cleaning day at the place I currently work, because Fridays business is always slow. So while I'm cleaning a large drawer, a bearded LII appears at the counter. Me: "Good afternoon sir, how can I help you?" He: "Don't worry, take your time, I'll wait..."

Haha, I've done this before.

[Creepy-theticalanti]

I just want to say about LIIs and EIIs, both as my possible duals, since I'm most often typed either ESE or LSE, is that they completely suck at making eye contact. Any time I find an attractive LII or EII, and I try to catch their eye for attention to start up a conversation and flirt, they NEVER NOTICE. You always have to start the conversation with them. There is absolutely no way you can make eye contact with them to flirt. Take my word for it. It's impossible. Se-PoLR. You have to talk with them and be very intentional.

It's unfortunate because most LIIs and EIIs are very cool but they have self-esteem issues or think nobody is interested them because of how aloof they are. I've seen them routinely blow off people romantically interested in them because of being completely unaware of the intentions of those around them.

[xerx]

Yes, if you can let other people do the dirty work, then it becomes quite easy!

More like intellectually assertive LIIs.

[nefnaf]

It's unfortunate because most LIIs and EIIs are very cool but they have self-esteem issues or think nobody is interested them because of how aloof they are. I've seen them routinely blow off people romantically interested in them because of being completely unaware of the intentions of those around them.

Yeah I do this disturbingly often. It's not that I don't think anybody is interested in me. In fact if you asked me point blank "do you think that girl might be into you?" thus forcing me to stop and think about it, I would be able to gauge interest reasonably well.

It's important to remember that the vulnerable function isn't simply something that you suck at. As a mental function, it can be manipulated consciously in order to be more productive (if someone teaches you how, or you teach yourself). The problem is that we will make every attempt to devote as little mental energy to the vulnerable function as possible. So my problem in that scenario isn't that I lack the ability to tell when someone is interested; it's simply that I have almost deliberately avoided thinking about it in the first place.

I had an LII boss that hated acting like a boss and preferred to treat everyone as equals instead, even myself when I was a lowly intern (job didn't work out because there was no one there to help me get my ass in gear). He seemed to enjoy having a large, comfortable office, but he also was somewhat uncomfortable with the fact that we (his employees) didn't have such an office and had to work in cubicles.

In my experience EIIs will defend their opinions loudly and vigorously. LIIs will defend their opinions quietly but stubbornly.

[The Exception]

I just want to say about LIIs and EIIs, both as my possible duals, since I'm most often typed either ESE or LSE, is that they completely suck at making eye contact. Any time I find an attractive LII or EII, and I try to catch their eye for attention to start up a conversation and flirt, they NEVER NOTICE. You always have to start the conversation with them. There is absolutely no way you can make eye contact with them to flirt. Take my word for it. It's impossible. Se-PoLR. You have to talk with them and be very intentional.

It's unfortunate because most LIIs and EIIs are very cool but they have self-esteem issues or think nobody is interested them because of how aloof they are. I've seen them routinely blow off people romantically interested in them because of being completely unaware of the intentions of those around them.

Guilty as charged here.

[uniden]

I've been thinking on this and what it means to be Se-polr. I think I'll start with a story.

I had a quick recess between classes and decided to get one of those pre-made sandwiches they keep in the caffetteria cooler. Every single sandwich was $3.99 except for one. The egg salad sandwich. It was only $2.99. I take it to the cashier, and I had my $5 already on hand when he told me that'll be $4.31. Immediately my head was flooded. What? Huh?? How? Wait. Could I have miscalculated the tax that badly? All the while he had taken the bill, made change, and the other people behind me were putting their food down getting ready to pay as well. I didn't get a receipt.

I was swept away in the moment. I think this is what Se-polr is like. There's a pressure to keep flow going. Get your lunch, pay, leave, get your lunch, pay, leave. There's people behind you wanting to eat donch'ya know? The cashier wants to get through his routine of ringing you up, giving change, and moving on to the next person. I think Se-polr has a lot of trouble disrupting the... flow. Putting a jam in the works. Jutting out and saying, "Hey! Look at me! My needs! My questions! My concerns! You aren't moving on till you've dealt with me!" That's not something Se-polr is well equipped to do.

I like the way Radio put it. Going around things instead of through them. So there's a lot of difficulty when there's an issue you have to face directly. Also the example shakealittle described. Getting asked a favor and carrying on that momentum by being all "yeah sure I can do that." Instead of stopping it cold. I think the polar opposite is possible too. Again like what shakealittle said. Just complete obliviousness to the flow. A sore thumb sticking out wherever they go not understanding how to appropriately bring attention to their specific interests.

Left to my own devices, I can stew endlessly in inaction. Apprehension in introducing myself in an unfamiliar family gathering or standing out in the cold instead of knocking louder. The possibilities and the things to consider when making a post. Stewing on what to do builds up a lot of pressure inside! I can find it very relieving to be given clear direction. "Do this." "Alrighty!" Or with this post I had to start with a story to get it going. Something concrete to start and constrain the Ne. Something concrete.

[ouronis]

I've been thinking on this and what it means to be Se-polr. I think I'll start with a story.

I had a quick recess between classes and decided to get one of those pre-made sandwiches they keep in the caffetteria cooler. Every single sandwich was $3.99 except for one. The egg salad sandwich. It was only $2.99. I take it to the cashier, and I had my $5 already on hand when he told me that'll be $4.31. Immediately my head was flooded. What? Huh?? How? Wait. Could I have miscalculated the tax that badly? All the while he had taken the bill, made change, and the other people behind me were putting their food down getting ready to pay as well. I didn't get a receipt.

I was swept away in the moment. I think this is what Se-polr is like. There's a pressure to keep flow going. Get your lunch, pay, leave, get your lunch, pay, leave. There's people behind you wanting to eat donch'ya know? The cashier wants to get through his routine of ringing you up, giving change, and moving on to the next person. I think Se-polr has a lot of trouble disrupting the... flow. Putting a jam in the works. Jutting out and saying, "Hey! Look at me! My needs! My questions! My concerns! You aren't moving on till you've dealt with me!" That's not something Se-polr is well equipped to do.

So they get into a lot of situations like what Radio described. Waiting for your turn to speak rather than seizing an opportune moment. Or like what shakealittle said. Getting asked a favor and carrying on that momentum by being all "yeah sure I can do that." Instead of stopping it cold. I think the polar opposite is possible too. Again like what shakealittle said. Just complete obliviousness to the flow. A sore thumb sticking out wherever they go not understanding how to appropriately bring attention to their specific interests.

Left to my own devices, I can stew endlessly in inaction. Apprehension in introducing myself in an unfamiliar family gathering or standing out in the cold instead of knocking louder. The possibilities and the things to consider when making a post. Stewing on what to do builds up a lot of pressure inside! I can find it very relieving to be given clear direction. "Do this." "Alrighty!" Or with this post I had to start with a story to get it going. Something concrete to start and constrain the Ne. Something concrete.

Se people. Like with how Se-polr can react in polar opposite ways in dealing with situations, I think they can have very different reactions when dealing with people who have Se in their ego block. Outright irritation or dismissal. Or, perhaps just perhaps, if you have a Se person in your life who has your interests in mind, it can be something you can appreciate if never really get a handle on yourself.

I relate to this. I've even talked about how you should not disrupt the flow in grocery stores. Keep your carts moving people!

I'm pretty sure that if I didn't have this attitude of keeping the energy up, I'd have no social skills, no sense of how to interact with the world.

[golden]

It's funny that the bell is being mentioned, as I was just today thinking we should have one at that place. Preferably with a sign above with a big arrow pointing to the bell and reading "By all means, assert yourself!"

Yeah, the sign would be good, bc when I see a bell like that, I don't know if the employee who has to respond to it hates the thing or not.

I can be inhibited in the ways a lot of ppl here have described. Standing up for myself, especially when it matters most, when the stakes are high, has been a struggle for most of my life. And it's not bc of Se polr. It appears to be bc of life experiences. I've had to get help with it.

[Suz]

I have noticed that LIIs suck at confrontation. One in particular lied to me about rediculously arbitrary things to avoid hurting my feelings over something.. I eventually got to the point of asking what was up..and he only admitted to it when I asked if that's what he was doing. He apologized ...and did the same thing a few days later. That was fun...

One of my best friends in college had a bad habit of doing this....I'd previously thought maybe she was SEI, but is this an LII thing to do?
She also didn't have a sense of smell (idk if that's type related though).

LIIs can be somewhat endearingly, if at times annoyingly, passive...

Yeah this describes her well too actually... and the buckling under too much rules and expectations that Clownsandentropy mentioned (which i never ascribed to LIIs before reading that). I always thought they're supposed to be the quiet geniuses who excel at everything. But i guess their extreme passiveness, and that little ER scenario that darya described about her Se-POLR friend could explain it. My friend actually failed out of med school for kind of similar reasons.

A past mentor of mine with what i always saw as pretty obvious Se-POLR was (perhaps) a more well-adjusted or better supported LII made it further, perhaps in part to his own mentor who was a larger-than-life prodigy, and who I suspect was ILE. After the ILE left for a different institution, the LII was basically left to fend for himself in the dog-eat-dog highly political environment where they had previously worked together. Well, the LII was an exceptionally diplomatic and gentle person, but despite that (or perhaps because of it) he was essentially bullied, badmouthed unfairly, and eventually kicked out. I have to say, the LII was pretty oblivious sometimes, and would just try to diplomatically reason with people when he really needed to take a stand and be assertive. He was just not capable of it. Luckily the ILE took him in with open arms and they are now excelling together in the ILE's new institution doing great things.