Se PoLR of INFjs and INTjs

[Creepy-male]

Se polrs over react and rage freak out and do stupid shit to other people in my expirience. They don't know the right amount of force to push back, when its called for etc.They look like fucking assholes with rage problems.
Either that or they puss out. They have two levels, puss or rage. 1d se

This is actually more the standard interpretation.... jughead is correct actually, it was what was written on wikisocion for ages and personally I like it better than the standard forum interpretation -- which is the more Se you have the "tougher" you are.

That's not how it works, Se is the function of extraverted sensation, experiencing reality directly through sensation. It's a creative and improvisational function. It's focus is on reading an environment for its reality and being very grounded and focused on that reality. Hence they are typically associated with hedonists, habitually indulging in sensation seeking behavior to create some positivity admists their realistic focus. While an INTj is more likely to mentally masturbate to feel a sense of positivity, an Se ego is more likely to indulge in sensations and experiences.

Se's are also more likely to have a non defensive attitude towards reality. Se egos are perfectly fine with looking at reality as it appears without needing to impose some idealistic nonsense over it to make it feel good to them. NT's and NF's get defensive about reality occasionally wanting to impose their intellectual and emotional fantasies and ideals onto reality, trying to kind of shelter themselves from reality and defensively adhering to their idealistic notions. They aren't batshit dumb or retarded fanciful children, they just want to imbue reality with their abstract intuitive notions, which interfere with seeing reality directly as it is.

Finally Se's tend to be experience seeking, since what they are truely after is a positive experience of reality. In order to have this positive experience, they must be non defensive towards reality, instead of living in their heads, they have to live in the moment. This requires them getting adjusted to the negative aspects of reality, they understand to truely experience the positives of reality, they must be open to reality, which means occasionally experiencing the negatives of reality without being sheltered. This of course takes its toll on them much like a sickness, of which their favored course of treating the symptoms is more grounded hedonistic things, because that is what is available to them in this center of focus on reality. Although this hedonism only treats the symptoms, true healing and positive experience from the Se comes from an unrelenting search towards positive experiences in reality.

That's Se... an Se-PoLR is weak in Se along with it being unvalued... a Se-DS is weak as well (important to remember) but it is valued.

So an INFj is too busy with NF matters to be open to experience, but they care little as they prefer Si instead

An INFp is too busy with NF matter to be open to experience, but they care greatly as they prefer to have this NF energy trickle down to reality and experience it directly. This makes a good match for beta STs as their energy wants to occasionally rise above reality into the NF realm, in a way that doesn't seem fake or phony but still connected to direct experience.

INFj's by constrast trickle down to reality in a subjective experiential manner (Si), they want to experience internal sensation, synthasethia like in quality. It's not important about the outward experience but the inward sensation of the experience. I'd probably further go so far as to imply that for the INFj the Si in itself indirectly provides the Se.

Err now to get practical.... the INFj tends to abhor reality, preferring to stay in a zone of comfort, tending to cling onto their NF tendenancy and be defensive towards reality, they aren't after a more real experience they are after an internal sensation in reality, as is the INTj. This defensiveness to reality makes them particularly out of touch with realistic application of force. This is were the instability in their reaction to reality comes from. Like a hyper-reactive defensive person one moment they are fine, almost passive... the next they are batshit defensive and vigilant, maybe not in action but emotionally internally or someform of intense vigilance. If they are forced to react with realistic action the result is the same, disproportionate aggression, or disproportionate passivity.

[FDG]

That's an extremely interesting analysis of and -polr, HLD. You should add it to wikisocion or just write it down somewhere, in the Articles section perhaps.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yeah basically I want my ideals and dreams to be activated by a Se-ego person. I love all real, 'material' things, but only if they also align with my Ni ideals. And it just kills me watching a Beta ESTp living too much in the moment and being too raw and being a heavy partier and going nowhere in his internal life.

Se doesn't relate to bullying though that's just silly. Se is a static function as well, it's not dynamic like Te is, how can something so static be 'bullying' in that fashion. Te is much more bullying than Se is, objectively speaking.

[Beautiful sky]

I would say that I tend to, what my boyfriend says is "wager a moral war for a moral victory," in expectation that what I say to others will or might somehow rub off on them and change them to be more kind towards people. This is too idealistic; a situation that I can think of was this morning when we went out for breakfast and he parked in front of some guy's house, in front of that guy's car. The guy came out of the house and said to us "I hope you're not trying to take off after hitting my car."

My boyfriend tends to look at the facts and bring people to look at them too, saying, "sir, I didn't hit your car and if you would come out [from behind the gate] and inspect your car, you'd see that I didn't;" while, I am thinking, "how can you talk to people that way and treat us like that; is your car of any importance, it's just a materialistic piece of metal and do you think that we would have that much disrespect for you to not say or do anything?"

Being a Yielding type, I tended to start defending our position while my boyfriend, who does not like confrontation, got tense but isn't in the habit of "sticking up" for others and later apologized to me, but I let him know that I knew this about him.

I told Matt that when we were ready to leave our spot, I would tell the guy to come watch us drive away to be sure we didn't hit his car if he's so worried about the damn thing and that I would love to turn around and tell him, "I hope you don't treat other human beings the way that you're treating us because it's not right."

I guess this is more Fi than Se PoLR anyway because I can often hear my ESI cousin screaming at her SEE kids, "you don't do things like that." I have an expectation of how things might change in the future.

[Beautiful sky]

Have you considered you are ESI?

Ne allows me to come up with ideas and see things in a branch like pattern; it allows me to suggest to my dual, who can stick to a judgement and be rather non-compassionate sometimes to see the possibilities of things from another person's perspectives allowing them to work out their frustrated emotions. The interesting thing is that he's non confrontational in external form, sometimes, but he works out what he would do if he were to become confrontational later on. But, he does not do the things he's not good at and tends to maintain loyalty to things that are pleasurable to him.

I don't do well with a lot of sensory stimulation, I don't do well with a lot of physical stimulation, I don't do well with not being able to think of things beyond what they are and just according to how it is or my perception tells me it is. I wouldn't be able to trust this.

Objects don't have to change significantly in order for them to appear differently to me. I don't see objects the way they are. I'm not led easily by an individual who's always thinking of the future as LIE tend to do because they are types.

And, I'm a positivist type, I can't be ESI.

I did make that error, sorry.

In my thread A question for everyone, you'll see that I have this insight about Socionics, I then take this knowledge and relate if for instance to the perception of a real life situation. my high standards for others is vary visible in that thread and also in the entry I made here about Matt and I.

[Beautiful sky]

I did make that error, sorry.

So, what is the error - that your interpretation of the dichotomy is wrong or your boyfriend's (or your) type is wrong? Because both EII and LSE are yielding types, and what you are saying is that the two of you deal with the situation differently, per yielding/obstinate dichotomy.

I was in error about LSE being Obstinate type.
Well, we dealt with that situation differently, but my idealism is apparent an visible in my entry as it relates to Ne. And why are you bating me into a discussion about this in this thread? Are you and IEI???

The individual likes to apply his insight to specific situations, relating them to the bigger picture. He also enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is. Consequently, he usually has high standards, even unreasonably so, for those around him.
He does not pursue ideas or new opportunities merely for their own sake, but for their application to specific questions and issues that he feels are important.

[chip]

Se POLR manifests in lack of intiation and confidence. Not to be sexist but under cutural norms females can maintain a certain sense of dignity better than males since both will be timid and somewhat frail. I have often noticed they display poor body language with slouched postures and basically appearing soft.

Extroverts are characterized as having an awareness of their abilities and others and Se are no exceptions. However, for INxJ, they do not have a well grounded sense of what they are capable of, i.e. using 30% instead of 100%. They generally show a lack of awareness for their physical state and can imagine themselves being better but can never realize that physical state of fitness. They may possess an idealized image of themselves via fantasy but without the physical effort to attain that image. Often the idealization will result in super-physical attributes inwhich only have place in fantasy. They can not even estimate their own physical excertion in the present like say how much can they lift or how fast they can run, etc. The fantasy can be lifting a car but in reality they can not even lift 50kg or running faster than a cheetah but not even being able to sprint 100m under 20 secs, etc.

Further examples include dating a top super model but when in reality they can not even get the attention of an average looking girl, etc. Another example would be having superior intelligence and yet not being able to read a book til the end.

However much of this depends upon INxJ's actual interaction with physical reality. The less physically active they are, the more prone they are to illusions of grandeur. The more physically active they are, the more they can better estimate their own physical presence with objective reality and develop and deepen their interpersonal relationships.

[silverchris9]

Se polr is the inability to move.

[Airman]

Se polr is inability to BE physically repulsive, and also to lead with situations where Se is displayed.

I was in a place where there was an INTJ psychologist and she found me okay until one day I ran out of patience with a patient who was talking too loud to me and became somewhat fierce. She wrote down, just because of that happening, in my papers in the clinic that '...displays aggressive behavior as a sign of alcohol abstinence'. LOL. While with her ISTJ boss and many ESTP patients she didn't write a thing.

Contradictory to this, Se polr ppl also like to defend their views to the end, and to make sure they don't rethink anything in front of other people, not to look undecided, since they're aware of their Se polr.

They can also be passive-aggressive or subtly aggressive instead of directly aggressive. Like they won't shout, but say indirect things which would hurt someone's feelings in a subtle manner. INFJ is a master at doing these indirect, you-can't-be-sure-if-it-was jokes and criticisms of other people.

These ppl do not need Se for duals but ppl who have Se in Id block for duals.

[Saberstorm]

What does PoLR Si look like?

As I have mentioned in another post, I test on the MBTI as Fi/Ne which is the socionics INFj, but on the Socionics Type Assisstant, I test as an Te/Ni type (the ENTj)

The PoLR for an INFj is Se, the PoLR for the ENTj is Si. What is Si in the PoLR mode?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

What does PoLR Si look like?

As I have mentioned in another post, I test on the MBTI as Fi/Ne which is the socionics INFj, but on the Socionics Type Assisstant, I test as an Te/Ni type (the ENTj)

The PoLR for an INFj is Se, the PoLR for the ENTj is Si. What is Si in the PoLR mode?

Here you go. Also, Wikisocion and the WS Wiki have some info on Si and Si PoLR.

[Beautiful sky]

I was in error about LSE being Obstinate type.
Well, we dealt with that situation differently, but my idealism is apparent an visible in my entry as it relates to Ne. And why are you bating me into a discussion about this in this thread? Are you and IEI???

The individual likes to apply his insight to specific situations, relating them to the bigger picture. He also enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is. Consequently, he usually has high standards, even unreasonably so, for those around him.
He does not pursue ideas or new opportunities merely for their own sake, but for their application to specific questions and issues that he feels are important.

In my thread A question for everyone, you'll see that I have this insight about Socionics, I then take this knowledge and relate if for instance to the perception of a real life situation. my high standards for others is vary visible in that thread and also in the entry I made here about Matt and I.

Maritsa - I'm not baiting you. I often come across a fair amount misinformation in your pool of socionics knowledge that prompts me to comment. The fact that continuously boast confidently about your 'insight' makes it even harder to resist. It's a bit concerning, actually, the fact that you are out actively marketing yourself as an expert and potentially misinforming people, when your grasp of socionics is not strong enough to place yourself at this level.

You have to understand that I don't analyze the details of my writing, because I don't value Se and because I don't often take time to form my categories into a system that I can follow.

[krieger]

[redbaron]

lol

instead of repelling aggression, or protecting against it, try diffusing it.

[Creepy-male]

To add my 2 cents, the Se PoLRs I know aren't inclined to take much physical action and give the impression of being rather timid. Do not enjoy aggressive sports and are inclined to individual sports in which they can set their own pace. Aren't overtly competitive. They can be very determined in their own way but hesitate to push their will onto others, unless perhaps aggravated under undue stress in which their aggressiveness surprise the heck out of you- the INTjs in intellectual fury and the INFjs in wrathful righteousness.

I don't like this interpretation, I think socionics is mainly a cognitive theory of personality and doesn't really weigh judgment on body type or those issues. Nowhere does it say that you can't have a muscular and physically fit Se PoLR type that enjoys physical action.

Second I dislike the mentioning that Se PoLR's aren't overtly competitive, which seems to imply Se is a function related to one's outward expression of competitive spirit and their dislike for asserting influence and coersion towards people.

Really what it seems like time and time again is people overfixate on imbuing Se with the stereotypical "warrior archetype". That is a function which is related to all behaviors of the warrior archetype. A warrior archetype is one who enjoys challenges and competition, throws their weight around to influence and coerce others, likes to drive things forward/oriented towards actions, and is in touch with their body and grounded in mentality.

I think this is an awful interpretation, as socionics once again is mainly a cognitive theory of personality and doesn't weigh on character archetypes or things like body type. About the best you can say is that given a specific type of cognition, one is more likely to be X archetype or to have X body type.

I think that more likely what you see with Se egos is a direct experience based cognitive focus which gives rise to the following characteristics

• A non-defensive attitude towards reality
• A clear, unfiltered, direct perception of reality
• A strong sensation/experience seeking impetus
• A predisposition to indulge in hedonistic behavior (earthy pleasure seeking) as a means of feeling better
• A goal to directly experience the best in reality

All of these traits one can see is well suited for a warrior archetype, put correlation doesn't imply causation. Just because they seem to be correlated well doesn't mean that an Se ego will necessarily have to behave in a manner similar to the warrior archetype. I've seen a few SLE's which fit better under the attitude of a jovial, fun, sensation seeking party animal that just wants to have fun and be the live of the moment and explore... and they don't really need to constantly be doing physical activity and competing.

What an Se-PoLR really means is the antithesis of those attributes above.....

let's consider an INTj

• A defensive attitude towards reality - they see reality as a logical system
• A filtered and post-processed view of reality - they interpret experience in terms of intuitively, divining potentials and possibilities from experience, and then forming these into logical systems which represent their standard view of reality
• A subdued experience seeking impetus (not weak - subdued), they see experience trickling down as a consequence of understanding. In their world view framing reality in terms of a logical system allows them competency from which they will have the will to seek out the unique and interesting, from which experience indirectly follows.
• A predisposition towards aloofness and excessive mental masturbation as a means of feeling better
• A goal to understand and comprehend reality so that they may seek and find new possibilities (Ti-Ne).

let's consider an INFj

• A defensive attitude towards reality - they see reality as an matrix of relationship with emotional attachment
• A filtered and post-processed view of reality - they interpret experience in terms of intuitively, divining potentials and possibilities from experience, and then based on feelings of these perceptions developing sentiments to these which form an ethical world view.
• A subdued experience seeking impetus, they see experience trickling down as a consequence of passion. In their world view they feel connected emotively to things (relationships), from which experience results from the development of their passion in these areas.
• A predisposition towards aloofness and excessive sentimentality/attachment as a means of feeling better
• A goal to emotively connect with various aspects of reality so that they may seek and find new possibilities (Fi-Ne).

finally let's consider an ILE

• A non-defensive attitude towards reality - they perceive the potentials and possibilities
• An indirect view of reality - instead of directly perceiving experience, they intuitively perceive the underlying aspects of their experience. What is possible, what is the potential of this, what makes this unique?
• An indirect experience seeking impetus -- there true impetus is finding the unique, discovering new possibilities, and exploring the potential outcomes and abilities of things. Experience comes as an indirect results of these explorations.
• A predisposition towards impulsive experimentation as a means of feeling better (trying new things in order to add novelty to their lives)
• A goal to seek the truely unique/original, uncover new possibilities, divine hidden potentials, this goal is supported through the implementation of logic. (Ne-Ti)

In order to provide a good counter argument consider how the warrior archetype can relate to in literature. Don Quixote, The Holy Grail, and The Conquistador all represent based portraits of the warrior archetype. They are seeking the unique and original, discovering new worlds, and searching deep to uncover hidden possibilities or artifacts. In socionics is related to undervalued and weak Se, which makes sense.

However, one aspect rarely mentioned is the commonality between Ne and Se. Both are creative functions (Extroverted Perceptive), so they tend to have an improvisational, exploratory, and seeking nature about them. The Ne is seeking the unique/original/hidden possibilities/novel ... the Se quite is seeking direct experience, especially the transcendental kind. For this reason both Se and Ne base types find themselves with a similar attitude of one exploring or seeking something out in reality. Hence they tend to work well together... however the complication is in the Ne type seeking out something different than the Se type. It's two travelers at an airport commuting but taking different flights, if their is an convergence it is mostly by coincidence or the intervention of another function or type. This is the source of their psychological incompatability. INFp and ESTp do better together because the INFp has a good perception of the transcendental and a need to experience more directly.... the ESTp is on a quest to experience more, but is seeking the transcendental.

[Beautiful sky]

That was great analysis HLD

This is a PoLR because SLE types speak to persuade or to influence. These things, while temporarily give me the sense of feeling like I can do things I want to achieve, later on pressure me because they remove my emphasis from my base function and their feeding of inaccurate facts gets me to go into world of seeing possibilities that aren't there and scaring me. Honestly and all honestly, just scaring the living daylights out of me. This happened when my SLE friend made up an elaborate story of the Nuclear power plant in Japan and how this radiation would spread, etc, and my mind just visualized this story and sent me on an emotional roller coaster.

[chip]

@ Marista are you making a joke? A Japanese nuclear reactor did explode in Fukishima. The nuclear reactor exploded and there was a serious threat of a nuclear cloud escaping and being blown eastward and passing over hawii and possibly california. Though the reactor never had a complete melt down. However people in Fukishima are at high risk of radiation poisioning. That happened about three or four months ago.

[Beautiful sky]

@ Marista are you making a joke? A Japanese nuclear reactor did explode in Fukishima. The nuclear reactor exploded and there was a serious threat of a nuclear cloud escaping and being blown eastward and passing over hawii and possibly california. Though the reactor never had a complete melt down. However people in Fukishima are at high risk of radiation poisioning. That happened about three or four months ago.

No. My point was in the way some situation can be taken by SLE and a story can be expounded from this event, that often times make me feel overly stressed because it's not just stating facts.

[redbaron]

That was great analysis HLD

[Beautiful sky]

That was great analysis HLD

LOL LSI.....LSI.....LSI....because it's so detailed and because he tends to want to break things down to the details.

[squark]

LOL LSI.....LSI.....LSI....because it's so detailed and because he tends to want to break things down to the details.

Fuck no. We wouldn't need so many words.

[Creepy-male]

Well if u are aware of the difference between causation and correlation, thats good, im mainly saying what I did on behave of those that potentially may not understand this.

Having a down up understanding of socionics is fine, but its dependent on ones accuracy to type succesfully.

[FDG]

HLD is correct, there are Ne creative professional soccer players and tour de france winners, it's enough evidence to discard any substantial (meaning: rooted in a given "principle" rather than casual) correlation between Ne PoLR and lack of physicality.

[Creepy-male]

I don't think down-up or top-down is superior, I think to get the best understanding, one has to move between the two frequently. down-up is a good method to build theories through induction and empirical observation, to attempt to divine a logical understanding of the world around you. top-down however is important to verify these understandings, sometimes people miss details and verification allows them the ability to spot these and evolve their theories.

getting overly bogged down in one stage of the process or moving too quickly can lead to confusion.

just my opinion on implementing smart thinking.

And yes top-down thinking isn't perfect, it has its errors as well.

With typing top-down thinking only works well when a person has a robust understanding of the theory and the theory is a valid representation of reality. Otherwise what it leads to is inaccurate predictions.

almost everyone types others based on top-down processes and evolves their understanding of the theory in practice through down-up processes. That's really not the issue though, I think the greatest fallacy is selectively ignoring data. Only focusing on observations that validate your bias, instead of the ones that conflict against it. Focusing on the conflicts lead to insight and a more robust theoretically understanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

[Beautiful sky]

LOL LSI.....LSI.....LSI....because it's so detailed and because he tends to want to break things down to the details.

Fuck no. We wouldn't need so many words.

Yes, because he expands more energy in doing this and that's very possible for LSI types; there are LSI types who are better at and much more exact about their analysis who don't have to think things over as much as there are EII types who can write very fluidly about relationships and characteristics of such and some who can't put two words together because they are so introverted and emotional that the only expression available to them is painting and art.
He should post a video of himself discussing types and what he thinks of them.

Notice, that both he and MD have their VI or self typing thread invitation in their signature, just a pattern observation.

[RoadPaveMent]

Se doesn't relate to bullying though that's just silly. Se is a static function as well, it's not dynamic like Te is, how can something so static be 'bullying' in that fashion. Te is much more bullying than Se is, objectively speaking.

Lol. The ol' "My conflictor is more of a jerk than my dual," argument. Both are bullies in their own ways. The thing is, when an SLE forces people to do things, you don't mind, and I get a hissy fit. And when an LSE bosses people around, I don't mind, and you get a hissy fit.

Quasi-identical relations are confusing. You have the same traits, but express them in completely different ways...(I don't know if that's how it should be explained...I'm trying to find the right words here...)

[Beautiful sky]

How can I become an initiator?

4. In terms of sexual relations, the initiator, of course, is the FR (SEE). After all, he is a Sensing type (in tune with the physical) and an Ethical type (sure of his feelings for another person). As an extrovert, he is impulsive and enterprising in striking up relations, sincere and decisive, and easily expresses his feelings. Besides this, FR (SEE) by his nature is a conqueror. Easy conquests for him are of no interest. His love is not something permanent, given once and for all. It must be won anew every day. Only such a mysteriously cold and ambivalent, and yet intelligent and interesting partner as TP (ILI) can permanently keep his attention.

[consentingadult]

jezus is the cruel sausage...

[ClownsandEntropy]

If they're LII you should have a sign telling them what to do: "If desk is unattended, do X". Ah, explicit social expectations .

[ClownsandEntropy]

Wouldn't that be a PoLR hit??

As long as it's a suggestion, not a rule:

Not recommended: "I SWEAR TO GOD IF YOU DON'T PRESS THE BELL FOR ATTENTION WHEN THE DESK IS UNATTENDED YOU WILL BE SORRY. THIS IS MY RESTAURANT AND YOU WILL GET MY ATTENTION HOW I TELL YOU TO."

To be honest I'd prefer a "If desk is unattended, please wait", because it makes me feel not guilty about not wanting to assert myself, because there's not the sense that I'm annoying someone by being too passive. But then you run into those issues of if someone is in a hurry...

[ashlesha]

this reminds me of a time at subway when the woman behind me was misheard and the guy made her sandwich wrong, and she had a really furious and exasperated expression on her face, but didnt say anything. for a few seconds i just kind of gawked because tbh it was a little bit creepy, like i got the impression she must have a history of not standing up for herself and had accumulated rage or something because of her physical reaction. like, school & post office shooter vibes, you know? finally i just corrected him for her, and she just nodded and sort of pretended it didn't happen. i rarely encounter people who are SO passive, though, so i don't know if its Se polr or some kind of more deeply rooted anxiety issue or personality disorder. maybe just plain Se polr wouldn't be so fuming.

[darya]

I know a few examples like these.

My LII coworker, while being quite a dick in all other ways, just cannot physically assert himself. It's weird, coz over the e-mail, he can be very rude and commanding, but in person it's a different story. He's an IT guy and when you call him and on the phone and ask him to come to your office to check the computer, he just stands by the door until someone notices him and calls him inside. Or he enters the office, but stays 5 meters away from you, nervously fidgeting and doesn't say anything . So many times I've been pissed what's taking him so long, and then I noticed he already is in my office but doesn't make a sound He never lets himself known, and even if you look at him with an annoyed stare, that isn't enough for him to come closer and start fixing your computer. You have to go:" Hey "Brian", come here, look, this is a problem." I've seen him stand in places not asserting himself for almost an hour

My flatmate's boyfriend, who's also LII, starts tip-toeing and whispering, whenever he enters our apartment. It's like he's trying to take as little space physically as possible.

The other example is my EII friend, who is almost as bad. I've never heard her raise her voice in 10 years, even when you can clearly see she's annoyed, I think it's not possible. She speaks with mouse volume. so people always have to lean in. Group of more than 3 people, forget about her speking unless you ask her something.
She's studying medicine (btw, why are 3/4 of women who work at pharmacy counters ESI-Fi's and EII-Fi's?) and she's already very bitter cause people are "so rude". She can't take any sort of confrontation whatsoever, it ruins her day, because she thinks that anytime someone criticizes anything, they hate her as a person. So a few day ago she was almost crying when she told me that she had an all-nighter in ER, and they asked her to wait for a while in a special room, until some emergency happens. And poor girl was sitting straight in a room for 8 hours and didnt't come out once, even when she heard lots of noise coming from the other room ,, because no one came looking for her. And it turned out they had 3 emergency situations that night and she missed all of them. And now everybody is talking how lazy she is, because she couldn't be bothered to come out of the room lol.

I'm also seriously concerned how she's going to handle her children, if she will ever have them. I can't imagine her yelling at them or set any boundaries. To make matters worse, she's in ltr with an LII lol.

[strrrng]

LIIs can be somewhat endearingly, if at times annoyingly, passive... it's like they just need a friendly push, a casual emotional outlet that will bring them out without forcing them to involve themselves too much... definitely more conventionally infantile. but I haven't dealt with a lot. EIIs have a more emotionally restrained/subdued passiveness, and are fond of making snarky comments/passing judgment and walking away... it's as if they want their valuations to be given a 'business' plan or something.


edit: an example: my mom's EII-Ne friend got shitty service once, and instead of complaining or correcting the waiter, she endured the ordeal, only to stiff him at the end. obviously not just Se-polr people do this, but the way she told the story struck me as such, with an E9 tinge.


Se-polrs and Se-suggestives can both lack assertiveness, but the latter is more likely to have occasional, pointed 'bursts' of Se, whether it be an IEI deciding to put someone in their place, or an ILI calling bullshit. Se-polr reactivity is more haphazard and misguided, like they're being forced into the bout of aggression.

[LunarRain]

I think the major difference between Se PoLR and Se suggestive in a situation like the one at the restaurant is that Se PoLRs would be bothered if someone else did that too, whereas Se suggestives would prefer that others do it and would like for someone to do it for them but don't necessarily feel comfortable doing it themselves. Does that make sense? I also agree with the occasional "bursts" of Se that strrrng mentioned.

[suedehead]

I wonder how often I do some of these. It feels more like I'm being lazy or indifferent than overpowered, intimidated, etc. I'm often comfortable moving in someone's space, watching the person preparing it, etc. I'm subtle, and it doesn't feel like I'm doing too much or too little.

[mercer]

i believe Se PoLR is like a leaf caught in the wind

it knows it won't like the wind's direction, but it stays.
it is a leaf

the Se ego type is a knife to the wind
it is rigid and brave, perhaps too much

[suedehead]

But then when I'm around some Ne-types or people who just seem meeker or less grounded I feel kind of harsh or uncouth.

[Phantom Shadow]

I have a younger brother who is LII he never asserts his self but, when he is emailing or texting he suddenly gain some keyboard courage lashes out at everyone who he feels has wronged in anyway. He also very passive aggressive he always finds some subtle way to undermine your authority or rebel against you when he doesn't agree with what your doing.

[darya]

I have a younger brother who is LII he never asserts his self but, when he is emailing or texting he suddenly gain some keyboard courage lashes out at everyone who he feels has wronged in anyway. He also very passive aggressive he always finds some subtle way to undermine your authority or rebel against you when he doesn't agree with what your doing.

Lol, my LII coworker always fucks everybody over by playing dumb and pretending to not understand what we asked him to do. He goes out of his way to fuck you over and cause you more trouble than if he didn't do anything in the first place. This passive-aggressiveness is how he compensates for his cowardice. But when writing e-mails, he's suddenly the alpha male of the office

[chriscorey]

Did anyone else just see the REAL darya? I did.