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Thread: Se PoLR of INFjs and INTjs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The quoted behaviour is LII-like. Although they tend to evade conflict as well as other complications, LIIs tend not to be conflict averse; in fact they can be very lethal if something or someone is in their way and they are convinced they're right.
    Like young Carl Jung who swang other kids (bullies) from their legs.
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    I have quite literally pretended it doesn't exist...

    And not even on purpose, or consciously. My mind "rationalized" Se-heavy behaviors as unnecessary, brutish, brash, or even cruel depending on what seemed appropriate. I also sometimes felt like they didn't get me at all and that the imagination was somewhat weak. Not all! But some, yeah. Probably more so my conflictors/super-ego relations more than anything else.

    But yeah, basically I was so repelled by it, I never interacted with, never went close to it, didn't really bother with it. I had no interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    My mind "rationalized" Se-heavy behaviors as unnecessary, brutish, brash, or even cruel depending on what seemed appropriate.
    due to your art preferences you are attracted by Se related behavior
    meanwhile possible E-9 type may arise fears to external influences and those ones made not softly you could to percieve as "unnecessary, brutish, brash, or even cruel". what does not exclude your own "unnecessary, brutish, brash, or even cruel" behavior which you shaw in the communications on this forum where you was inappropriately rude and strict when got disagreements in discussions about types

    > I had no interest.

    your pinterest gallery shows the opposite
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    I think I have a couple examples, but I'll see if you guys agree.

    I'm reasonably certain that my IEE friend's girlfriend is an LII (Ti subtype for sure so LSI is also a possibility, though she isn't forceful to other people which suggests otherwise). I'll call her FGf for short. One thing I've noticed is that she always has to do things by herself even when there's no expectation that she should be able to do it herself. She has to do things "her way" and resists when I or anyone else suggests a better method. My EII sister (S) is also like this. My father often tries to correct us when he feels we're doing something wrong, and while I don't mind being forced to try a new technique, S gets really annoyed, saying something along the lines of, "I can do it! Stop trying to control me!" She then becomes rather rigid. It's funny because she eventually tries the technique, only to realize that it's much better than the one she does. It's similar with FGf. Neither S nor FGf is very forceful to others and so I don't think they are Se creative. They are also very conflict averse and FGf prefers spending her time in a very Fe atmosphere. So I'm pretty sure they're Se PoLR.

    Another example is that when there's a lot of pressure put on FGf, she becomes incredibly austere and irritable. For example, if there is a problem set due today and she has not yet finished, when she is working on it she is very rigid in her motion, irate in her facial expressions, and uncompromising in her actions. It's as if she can't handle the external pressure that comes along with deadlines. If she's unable to figure something out before the deadlines, then she essentially breaks down, as if it's the end of the world. She may cry or become enraged - an emotional mess. My friend has to comfort her and calm her down. I know she has the capability to see beyond this single assignment, but she chooses not to (Ni unvalued?).

    Let me know if this is Se PoLR or not. It makes sense to me that it is Se PoLR (combined with immaturity), but I'd rather not feed misinformation.
    This is somewhat of a conjecture, but what you describe sounds a lot more like a negative reaction to (your) Ni, rather than Se.

    That is, the idea that you know better than them what's going to happen and therefore take it upon yourself to advise them. I've had similar conflicts in the past with Ni valuers.

  5. #365
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    Reposted from the Delta Lounge because it seems applicable here, too:

    ------------------------------



    I think I would categorize the following as a "PoLR hit":

    A few days ago, I was driving my car in the far left of a two-lane lefthand turn onto a highway. It was quite crowded because of an accident further up the road, so the lines started to form in the median lane. I had maybe 10 cars ahead of me and a bunch more lining up behind me.

    Suddenly I see movement out of the corner of my eye, look to my left, and there's a car less than two feet from me *on my left*, maybe a foot further back than I was. Technically she was not quite in oncoming traffic, because the the median was very wide, but it was close, and I could see the oncoming cars swerving a bit. No one else was behind her, so I think she was just attempting a shortcut.

    The car in front of me moved up a bit, so I did, too, and she moved up closer to me. I started feeling panicky, pressured, and very annoyed. She didn't let up so to preserve my car's paint I finally let her in. As I was doing so, LSE next to me says, "Either let her in or go for it, don't play the middle ground."

    After she had wedged her way in, LSE says, "That would have been a great time for a long, loud car horn blast." They were right, of course.

    As I finally turned onto the highway, my hands were shaking and I held back tears. Internally, I berated myself for being weak, not just in letting the car push me around but for being so upset about it. A former SLE boss's voice came echoing back to me, "You cry too easily."

    LSE laid back to take a nap, and for the next hour I tried to process why that whole situation bothered me so much. Interestingly, I also became increasingly sleepy, though I'm not sure if that ties directly in or not...
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

  6. #366
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    One time me, an ENFp, and an INFj were waiting at a restaurant.

    We were sitting at a table for a while and our server didn't arrive yet. I suggested that I'd physically walk up to the server and ask them to serve us (Se)

    This obviously made my INFj friend uncomfortable, and said no, lets be polite and wait for them. (Fi + Se PoLR)

    --

    Another way you see this manifest is if INFjs and INTjs are in leadership positions.

    When I've observed them organize group events, I noticed that they'd never push others to come out beyond the invite. They would kind of organize the events, then sit back, and let the individuals do their own thing. (Se PoLR)

    Whereas for me, I'd pester people to come out lol (Se)
    This is great. Also living in a world where SEe moms are doing so many activities with their children and all I’m doing is snuggling my child and trying to read her moods and speaking to her softly makes me feel like I am passing up 99% of the activities out ther in the real world. I watch SEE moms take their kids here there everywhere and I’m just like “yeah we sat at the park and took nature in for a few hours.” I really feel bad but whatever I’m trying my best.

    But I feel okay I mean I make up for it in depth. I know my child’s every intricacy very well. I pay very close and careful attention to her and write her own journal.

    By the way an LSI friend did this to me too. Lol
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-15-2019 at 06:08 PM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I think Se PoLR types are better at working in a calm, consistent sensory environment in most cases. Se is all about helter-skelter incoming sensory impulses that have to be constantly apprehended and responded to.

    Se PoLR is also about not being good at doing things they feel like they're forced to do only out of necessity or because someone else told them to do it. A lot of that behavior will wear them out. You'll still see a lot of Si types try to behave like that even with Se PoLR types in America, because that's the integral type of the country, and the social attitude imposes itself on all individuals, for better or worse.

    Se quadras find it easier to act according to orders because they value a unified motivating vision. They do things "for the cause" -- whichever one they agreed to follow. They will sacrifice intrinsic motivators for a collective vision and still gain a sense of fulfillment because they value Ni. For Si types, they most likely just feel herded like cattle or slaves lol. Even though Se valuers will sacrifice for "the vision," they still want to be compensated for their sacrifice. The soldiers want their share of the gold if they're going to go and plunder a neighboring kingdom.

    Deltas and alphas just don't see the return as being enough to make up for the loss. In other words, intrinsic motivators are the determining factor for those types. Having a unified vision can make enormous collective action possible that results in huge gains. That is a strength. But for the Si valuer, the return is just not enough for their sacrifice.

    "Damn the pyramids of Giza. I'm trying to finish this illuminated manuscript."

    "Why the hell are you focused on that manuscript? We're trying to build the fucking pyramids!!! Can't you see?!? It's the FUCKING PYRAMIDS!!!"

    "I don't see any illuminated manuscripts in those pyramids. Call me if that changes."

    "WTF?!??? Idiot!"

    Unified Ni vision exists at multiple macro and micro scales. There's "the country," "the religion," and "the family." For example. Each one of them becomes a monolithic unit to be submitted to at different levels of life, from an NiSe perspective. Si, if anything, is contrarily about a unified aesthetic.
    Last edited by Aramas; 04-16-2019 at 01:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Reposted from the Delta Lounge because it seems applicable here, too:

    ------------------------------



    I think I would categorize the following as a "PoLR hit":

    A few days ago, I was driving my car in the far left of a two-lane lefthand turn onto a highway. It was quite crowded because of an accident further up the road, so the lines started to form in the median lane. I had maybe 10 cars ahead of me and a bunch more lining up behind me.

    Suddenly I see movement out of the corner of my eye, look to my left, and there's a car less than two feet from me *on my left*, maybe a foot further back than I was. Technically she was not quite in oncoming traffic, because the the median was very wide, but it was close, and I could see the oncoming cars swerving a bit. No one else was behind her, so I think she was just attempting a shortcut.

    The car in front of me moved up a bit, so I did, too, and she moved up closer to me. I started feeling panicky, pressured, and very annoyed. She didn't let up so to preserve my car's paint I finally let her in. As I was doing so, LSE next to me says, "Either let her in or go for it, don't play the middle ground."

    After she had wedged her way in, LSE says, "That would have been a great time for a long, loud car horn blast." They were right, of course.

    As I finally turned onto the highway, my hands were shaking and I held back tears. Internally, I berated myself for being weak, not just in letting the car push me around but for being so upset about it. A former SLE boss's voice came echoing back to me, "You cry too easily."

    LSE laid back to take a nap, and for the next hour I tried to process why that whole situation bothered me so much. Interestingly, I also became increasingly sleepy, though I'm not sure if that ties directly in or not...
    Good example, in the sense of being forced to use the Vulnerable function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I think Se PoLR types are better at working in a calm, consistent sensory environment in most cases. Se is all about helter-skelter incoming sensory impulses that have to be constantly apprehended and responded to.

    Se PoLR is also about not being good at doing things they feel like they're forced to do only out of necessity or because someone else told them to do it. A lot of that behavior will wear them out. You'll still see a lot of Si types try to behave like that even with Se PoLR types in America, because that's the integral type of the country, and the social attitude imposes itself on all individuals, for better or worse.

    Se quadras find it easier to act according to orders because they value a unified motivating vision. They do things "for the cause" -- whichever one they agreed to follow. They will sacrifice intrinsic motivators for a collective vision and still gain a sense of fulfillment because they value Ni. For Si types, they most likely just feel herded like cattle or slaves lol. Even though Se valuers will sacrifice for "the vision," they still want to be compensated for their sacrifice. The soldiers want their share of the gold if they're going to go and plunder a neighboring kingdom.

    Deltas and alphas just don't see the return as being enough to make up for the loss. In other words, intrinsic motivators are the determining factor for those types. Having a unified vision can make enormous collective action possible that results in huge gains. That is a strength. But for the Si valuer, the return is just not enough for their sacrifice.

    "Damn the pyramids of Giza. I'm trying to finish this illuminated manuscript."

    "Why the hell are you focused on that manuscript? We're trying to build the fucking pyramids!!! Can't you see?!? It's the FUCKING PYRAMIDS!!!"

    "I don't see any illuminated manuscripts in those pyramids. Call me if that changes."

    "WTF?!??? Idiot!"

    Unified Ni vision exists at multiple macro and micro scales. There's "the country," "the religion," and "the family." For example. Each one of them becomes a monolithic unit to be submitted to at different levels of life, from an NiSe perspective. Si, if anything, is contrarily about a unified aesthetic.
    Basically, except you're describing Betas and not Gammas here.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    @hotel

    Except in a similar circumstance I would know or feel the possibilities that the guy must be experiencing, impatient (his inner qualities), or in a hurry (differing circumstances) and would be patient and let him in. It’s the difference between seeing possibilities and letting your emotions be taken by something uncomfortable. EII- no other type is as patient. I live in LA -car capital of the world.

    I have actually been in situations where my husband has honked or gotten upset and I had to calm him down by saying “well it looks like he’s (the impatient driver ahead of us)gotta get to his hot date

    Also where I see the Fe in her sentiment is the annoyance at herself for allowing the event to take place. Whereas I would not have been annoyed seeing many possibilities
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-16-2019 at 09:20 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Good example, in the sense of being forced to use the Vulnerable function.



    Basically, except you're describing Betas and not Gammas here.
    I know. I have more experience with Betas. It's easier to make up an example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Good example, in the sense of being forced to use the Vulnerable function.
    I also found it interesting in contrast to the LSE's response, who found it far easier to respond appropriately and also seemed barely to think about it later, other than marvel a little at the odd coincidence of both of us experiencing a near identical situation in the same afternoon. I felt a bit of a zing from the criticism right in the moment, but overall the LSE's responses to both me and the events helped me feel better by minimizing my "failure" and providing gentle suggestion of how to improve.

    I noticed the Se / pressure / confrontation and felt it strongly, crumpling under it; LSE noticed possible danger and reacted relatively confidently, then basically discounted the whole thing except as it related to future safety.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()



    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    @hotel

    Except in a similar circumstance I would know or feel the possibilities that the guy must be experiencing, impatient (his inner qualities), or in a hurry (differing circumstances) and would be patient and let him in. It’s the difference between seeing possibilities and letting your emotions be taken by something uncomfortable. EII- no other type is as patient. I live in LA -car capital of the world.

    I have actually been in situations where my husband has honked or gotten upset and I had to calm him down by saying “well it looks like he’s (the impatient driver ahead of us)gotta get to his hot date

    Also where I see the Fe in her sentiment is the annoyance at herself for allowing the event to take place. Whereas I would not have been annoyed seeing many possibilities
    The point here is not patience or lack thereof, it's the fact that it's a situation that pressures you to make a quick decision in the face of danger. Being aware of the person's internal experience doesn't alleviate this demand.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The point here is not patience or lack thereof, it's the fact that it's a situation that pressures you to make a quick decision in the face of danger. Being aware of the person's internal experience doesn't alleviate this demand.
    Got pressured today when a guy attempted to cut me off but if there was an accident I would be hitting a big rig to my left. I strategized by slowing down and honking at the guy and calling him an idiot for wreckless driving. What she’s experiencing is Not Se polr pressure. What FDG does to me is Se polr pressure by picking at me for nonesense. I don’t accumulate emotional energy
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-17-2019 at 10:49 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Got pressured today when a guy attempted to cut me off but if there was an accident I would be hitting a big rig to my left. I strategized by slowing down and honking at the guy and calling him an idiot for wreckless driving. What she’s experiencing is Not Se polr pressure. What FDG does to me is Se polr pressure by picking at me for nonesense. I don’t accumulate emotional energy
    aha....

    you need a hug B

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The point here is not patience or lack thereof, it's the fact that it's a situation that pressures you to make a quick decision in the face of danger. Being aware of the person's internal experience doesn't alleviate this demand.
    From Stratiyevskaya

    “The ISFp is able to remember and recreate once experienced sensations, often to high level of detail. Sounds, colors, smells the ISFp remembers as one complete wholesome impression that can then evoke in ISFp's memory associations tied to some feeling, reminiscent of some event, some person, or some relationship.

    The ISFp can notice unpleasant sensations experienced by other people. For example, a person of this type may immediately take note if someone is too hot, too cold, not getting enough fresh air, of wearing shoes that are too tight. The ISFp notices when someone is experiencing painful sensations and usually can see what is causing them. The ISFp then tries to remove the cause of the problem. He or she does so in a delicate and tactful manner, since the ISFp considers sensations to be especially personal and intimate – therefore, the influence must be delicate and unobtrusive. (Representatives of this type work well in medical occupations.)”
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    aha....

    you need a hug B
    Thank you. The event has passed. I drive careful for a reason because driving in a busy city means lots of people rushing home to get to their booty call
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    or maybe they have someone in the hospital and need to get there soon, or they're late for their children school show.. or who knows.. I've never horned + yelled at anyone, but it feels good to let it all go sometimes, doesn't it? : )

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    or maybe they have someone in the hospital and need to get there soon, or they're late for their children school show.. or who knows.. I've never horned + yelled at anyone, but it feels good to let it all go sometimes, doesn't it? : )
    it was a joke
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    aha.. I know

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    meanwhile iee and ile se-role sugestive-si...
    Last edited by karas; 04-18-2019 at 05:16 PM.

  21. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Got pressured today when a guy attempted to cut me off but if there was an accident I would be hitting a big rig to my left. I strategized by slowing down and honking at the guy and calling him an idiot for wreckless driving. What she’s experiencing is Not Se polr pressure. What FDG does to me is Se polr pressure by picking at me for nonesense. I don’t accumulate emotional energy
    So, your being manifestly aggressive in a situation that demands aggression is Se PoLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    From Stratiyevskaya

    “The ISFp is able to remember and recreate once experienced sensations, often to high level of detail. Sounds, colors, smells the ISFp remembers as one complete wholesome impression that can then evoke in ISFp's memory associations tied to some feeling, reminiscent of some event, some person, or some relationship.

    The ISFp can notice unpleasant sensations experienced by other people. For example, a person of this type may immediately take note if someone is too hot, too cold, not getting enough fresh air, of wearing shoes that are too tight. The ISFp notices when someone is experiencing painful sensations and usually can see what is causing them. The ISFp then tries to remove the cause of the problem. He or she does so in a delicate and tactful manner, since the ISFp considers sensations to be especially personal and intimate – therefore, the influence must be delicate and unobtrusive. (Representatives of this type work well in medical occupations.)”
    What on earth does this have to do with anything?

  22. #382
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    So, your being manifestly aggressive in a situation that demands aggression is Se PoLR?



    What on earth does this have to do with anything?
    Se is not about aggression.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  23. #383
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    lol today I was with my dad, he's driving on the highway, we're late, the road is quite free and we're on the fastest/ surpassing lane and this guy infront of us doesn't move his ass, the others lanes are free, he's going at 110 km/h (slow for that lane)... so we make light signals to him, then we horn... nothing, the jerk feels too cool to be surpassed. we're very pissed. we name call him and whatnot. then we surpass from the right (forbidden), while we do I show him my mid finger, my dad waves with his hand.

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    Se polr usually manifests in situations of most of the time being wimpy and then suddenly once in a while being too harsh/critical to over compensate.

    There's also this internal self loathing about it in Se polrs that doesn't exist in people with one-dimensional but valued Se. It's the difference between "eww I'm a wimp" and "I'm a wimp. So what?"

    Se-ego... depending on the overall psychological 'health' (/cringes at that word) of the Se-ego in question, they are either too overbearing tough all of the time or they apply just the right amount of force for almost any given situation. Not too much and certainly never too little.

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    LII


    EII(Keith)

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    Sux. It just sux.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Sux. It just sux.
    It sucks especially in places where large numbers of people value Se, because you end up devaluing yourself based on others judgments.

  28. #388
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    I'm reminded of Alain Badiou's (LII) claim that an event isn't so much something that causes a new or novel thing to occur, but rather just opens up the possibility for it to do so. The whole point of alpha—>beta is that potential only goes so far.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Sometimes Se PoLR can manifest in not knowing your contribution or the affect you have in an environment. Like you are a bystander in life and you are watching all the players play from the sidelines, but in reality you are also a player and don't even realize it, until someone bumps into you and says "move it! You're messing up my game."

    I remember one time after leaving work it was pouring outside. I had an umbrella and used it to walk to my car, I saw a woman waiting out the rain under a roof and with my umbrella wide open and looking her in the eye I walked right past her, and then she jogs right past me to her car. I didn't even think or realize until I got to my car that maybe I could have offered to walk with her to her car under my umbrella. When I looked at her I had so many thoughts in my own head I could not even see the situation in front of me, that maybe she was hoping I'd offer to help her out or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    Se polr usually manifests in situations of most of the time being wimpy and then suddenly once in a while being too harsh/critical to over compensate.

    There's also this internal self loathing about it in Se polrs that doesn't exist in people with one-dimensional but valued Se. It's the difference between "eww I'm a wimp" and "I'm a wimp. So what?"

    Se-ego... depending on the overall psychological 'health' (/cringes at that word) of the Se-ego in question, they are either too overbearing tough all of the time or they apply just the right amount of force for almost any given situation. Not too much and certainly never too little.
    I don't even know how someone could just say that and not feel like crap at all. And I'm not saying you should, I'm saying your right about the attitude of Se PoLR and suggestive and your perspective of Se definetely is different from the PoLR. I just can't fathom that kind of self acceptance yet.

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    This video gives me very Se PoLR vibes.


  32. #392

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Sometimes Se PoLR can manifest in not knowing your contribution or the affect you have in an environment. Like you are a bystander in life and you are watching all the players play from the sidelines, but in reality you are also a player and don't even realize it, until someone bumps into you and says "move it! You're messing up my game."
    yeah when I was younger I thought that I was some kind of alien that has been stranded on a different planet. you kind of don't want to interact with your enviroment at all. I still spend most of my time in my apartment just reading about things or listening to music. even when I observe other people that interact with the world, I still see most of their actions as trivial or pointless, or harmful to others or the enviroment.

    I don't register any details. when I talk to someone and turn away, there's a high chance that I can't remember anything about them (hair colour, what clothes they are wearing, any details of their face for example). if you talk about something and you mention too many details, there's a high chance that I will just zone out. I don't like to drive cars because I have a lot of trouble focusing on signs etc. )my normalising LII dad likes to drive though). to focus on reality, I have to be in a stressful state. I don't care about money, fame, what inluence someone has. if you mention your status or try to impose your will on me, there's a high chance that you will see a very negative reaction. I wear black clothes most of the time because I dislike attention (but I do like to occasionally wear very colourful clothes if I'm in the mood, compliments on my appearance make me feel awkward though).

    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    There's also this internal self loathing about it in Se polrs that doesn't exist in people with one-dimensional but valued Se. It's the difference between "eww I'm a wimp" and "I'm a wimp. So what?"
    I personally don't relate to this.

  33. #393

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    Quote Originally Posted by onfireee View Post
    Another way you see this manifest is if INFjs and INTjs are in leadership positions.

    When I've observed them organize group events, I noticed that they'd never push others to come out beyond the invite. They would kind of organize the events, then sit back, and let the individuals do their own thing.
    this is a really good example. I really dislike organising events. I occasionally try to gather some people for a meetup or I give a presentation on socionics, but I don't really advertise the event. I also don't charge any money for the information on my socionics website, and I type people for free if someone sends me a mail asking about their type and I have time (but that might be more ignoring Te).

  34. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Reposted from the Delta Lounge because it seems applicable here, too:

    ------------------------------



    I think I would categorize the following as a "PoLR hit":

    A few days ago, I was driving my car in the far left of a two-lane lefthand turn onto a highway. It was quite crowded because of an accident further up the road, so the lines started to form in the median lane. I had maybe 10 cars ahead of me and a bunch more lining up behind me.

    Suddenly I see movement out of the corner of my eye, look to my left, and there's a car less than two feet from me *on my left*, maybe a foot further back than I was. Technically she was not quite in oncoming traffic, because the the median was very wide, but it was close, and I could see the oncoming cars swerving a bit. No one else was behind her, so I think she was just attempting a shortcut.

    The car in front of me moved up a bit, so I did, too, and she moved up closer to me. I started feeling panicky, pressured, and very annoyed. She didn't let up so to preserve my car's paint I finally let her in. As I was doing so, LSE next to me says, "Either let her in or go for it, don't play the middle ground."

    After she had wedged her way in, LSE says, "That would have been a great time for a long, loud car horn blast." They were right, of course.

    As I finally turned onto the highway, my hands were shaking and I held back tears. Internally, I berated myself for being weak, not just in letting the car push me around but for being so upset about it. A former SLE boss's voice came echoing back to me, "You cry too easily."

    LSE laid back to take a nap, and for the next hour I tried to process why that whole situation bothered me so much. Interestingly, I also became increasingly sleepy, though I'm not sure if that ties directly in or not...
    I know all about that. I'm extremely sensitive about being dominated or bossed around. I absolutely cannot stand being around domineering or bossy people. They make me feel extremely uncomfortable. I guess because they force me to have to look at a part of myself that I cannot stand to look at (the part of myself that I feel is very submissive). It makes me feel weak, submissive, etc. I always try my best to not boss others around, because I know I can't stand it when others do that to me.

    I also really dislike when people dismiss me or shut me down for having the feelings I have (like your SLE boss did to you).

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I also found it interesting in contrast to the LSE's response, who found it far easier to respond appropriately and also seemed barely to think about it later, other than marvel a little at the odd coincidence of both of us experiencing a near identical situation in the same afternoon. I felt a bit of a zing from the criticism right in the moment, but overall the LSE's responses to both me and the events helped me feel better by minimizing my "failure" and providing gentle suggestion of how to improve.
    I don't think I would've felt quite as good.
    EII-INFj / INFP / 4w5 5w4 9w1

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    I know all about that. I'm extremely sensitive about being dominated or bossed around. I absolutely cannot stand being around domineering or bossy people. They make me feel extremely uncomfortable. I guess because they force me to have to look at a part of myself that I cannot stand to look at (the part of myself that I feel is very submissive). It makes me feel weak, submissive, etc. I always try my best to not boss others around, because I know I can't stand it when others do that to me.

    I also really dislike when people dismiss me or shut me down for having the feelings I have (like your SLE boss did to you).


    I don't think I would've felt quite as good.
    I have the same problem dealing with bossy people or domineering people. It's difficult for me to stand up to them. Sometimes, when I try to make a choice that should be a matter of preference, they will even start demanding "reasons" for why I made my choice. Uhmmm. Because I did. And if I'm dumb enough to tell them my "reasons," they will start trying to change my mind. I'm like... Bitch, no. My choice is my choice. STFU and GTFO. I'm awfully weak-willed sometimes, though and have a habit of going along with things for too long because I couldn't stand up to the other person, and then I snap on them. But I get blamed for snapping on them too, even though they knew they were pulling my strings. Go figure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I have the same problem dealing with bossy people or domineering people. It's difficult for me to stand up to them. Sometimes, when I try to make a choice that should be a matter of preference, they will even start demanding "reasons" for why I made my choice. Uhmmm. Because I did. And if I'm dumb enough to tell them my "reasons," they will start trying to change my mind. I'm like... Bitch, no. My choice is my choice. STFU and GTFO. I'm awfully weak-willed sometimes, though and have a habit of going along with things for too long because I couldn't stand up to the other person, and then I snap on them. But I get blamed for snapping on them too, even though they knew they were pulling my strings. Go figure!
    breath of fresh air to read. Yes. Exactly.

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    I’m able to be assertive when I have to. I think LIIs have a generally better time of this than with EIIs. For me, though, it requires a lot of conscious thought and effort. If/when I try to control or assertively manipulate other people, I fight to suppress a self-critical feeling that I have no idea what I’m doing, have no right to assert myself on someone else’s life, and that I’m acting foolishly (not that the other person perceives me to be foolish; that I’m making a bad mistake). It requires a lot of energy to maintain this state, and even planning to enter it is draining. As a rule, I try to avoid confrontations because of this, even when I shouldn’t.
    I was a Democratic caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus? No you haven't. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    breath of fresh air to read. Yes. Exactly.
    They ask for reasons because they want to pry you open and make you vulnerable it seems like. Why? Why? Why? And then they go along trying to undo all of your reasons to get you to do what they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    They ask for reasons because they want to pry you open and make you vulnerable it seems like. Why? Why? Why? And then they go along trying to undo all of your reasons to get you to do what they want.
    It feels like a lack of respect, respect for your autonomy or something. And yea it feels very much like,...Bitch, no. STFU and GTFO.

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    Can someone check out my questionnaire (linked below) and let me know if I could be LSI? LII has been most commonly suggested to me on other forums (and by the one response here so far), but I don't relate to any of the Se PoLRs in this thread. For instance, the below. I drive in bad traffic all the time and in poor weather and I've instinctively evaded collisions on many occasions. On a couple of occasions, the collisions would have been bad enough that I wouldn't be here writing this post.

    I'm definitely not as confident as the LSE here, but neither would I be shaken up or crying about it. For a couple days after each of the would-be fatal collisions, I replayed the sequence in my head, thinking about alternatives I could take if it happened again. But it quickly faded from my mind and I was never moved to the point of tears.

    A situation as "minor" as what the below went through, wouldn't faze me at all. I'd let the person in, scream some obscenities, maybe honk lol, and forget about it by the time I got where I was going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I think I would categorize the following as a "PoLR hit":

    A few days ago, I was driving my car in the far left of a two-lane lefthand turn onto a highway. It was quite crowded because of an accident further up the road, so the lines started to form in the median lane. I had maybe 10 cars ahead of me and a bunch more lining up behind me.

    Suddenly I see movement out of the corner of my eye, look to my left, and there's a car less than two feet from me *on my left*, maybe a foot further back than I was. Technically she was not quite in oncoming traffic, because the the median was very wide, but it was close, and I could see the oncoming cars swerving a bit. No one else was behind her, so I think she was just attempting a shortcut.

    The car in front of me moved up a bit, so I did, too, and she moved up closer to me. I started feeling panicky, pressured, and very annoyed. She didn't let up so to preserve my car's paint I finally let her in. As I was doing so, LSE next to me says, "Either let her in or go for it, don't play the middle ground."

    After she had wedged her way in, LSE says, "That would have been a great time for a long, loud car horn blast." They were right, of course.

    As I finally turned onto the highway, my hands were shaking and I held back tears. Internally, I berated myself for being weak, not just in letting the car push me around but for being so upset about it. A former SLE boss's voice came echoing back to me, "You cry too easily."

    LSE laid back to take a nap, and for the next hour I tried to process why that whole situation bothered me so much. Interestingly, I also became increasingly sleepy, though I'm not sure if that ties directly in or not...

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