Society favours certain types

[Raver]

Hi everyone , I am new to this forum and just joined today.

I have the belief that society tends to set up society in a way that is completely unfavourable to certain types and favourable for others. Well, if I had to guess, life is more set up for E types, S types and J types. Think about it, everything you do in life forces you to talk to others (E), be grounded in your decisions and concentrate on any task given to you (S), and hand in everything on time and do it in advance (J). This applies to work and school, so that basically means life in general. Do you guys agree with me on this matter?

[Joy]

In American society, most things seem to be geared for xSxj types. I don't see a way around that though, not in such a complicated society.

[FDG]

I don't think it's a problem, or it's unfair.

It's just the way it is.

[Joy]

agreed

[Brother Bones]

I don't know. American culture seems to value the S and P types in my mind. We're told NOT to judge others. It's all about doing what makes you feel right, personally, not about doing what's right for the greater good.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I guess you could make an arguement for that using utilitarianism as the model philosphy of American culture. America is also the most rational nation by the context of rational versus interpersonal social dichotomy.

I guess strong arguements could be argued for this all but it definitely is a mix and match nation as well. Not so much diverse in the sense of "the melting pot" but more of a compartmentalized mixture.

[ragnar]

(...) I have the belief that society tends to set up (...) unfavourable to certain types and favourable for others. (...)

The setup changes with time. I like to think of it as "climate": Cyclic, with long term trends.

In times of obvious national crisis Ts tend to find a status in society otherwise unattainable. ("We need skilled thinkers and administrators to save us!").

Otherwise, in easier times , people are lazy and complacent and either prefer entertaining and good looking people, and/or those who know how to "massage" them emotionally. Socially adept people who are otherwise numbskulls tend to win. Cheats and deceivers too, depending on the moral climate - which is also cyclic.

The setup also changes with the male/female domination cycle. Generations where matriarchy rules tend to be more F focused than male dominated societies and periods.

In American history some of these distinctions can be seen by comparing the 1860 presidential election campaigns with the 2000 one. Compare the NT campaign of Douglas vs Lincoln with the 2000 one. Can anyone imagine something like the Lincoln-Douglas debate during f.i. the social climate of the 1990s?


Greetings, ragnar

[Creepy-]

I think in general society is biased towards extroversion (they all want to fix the introverts). With exceptions, of course. S/N and T/F seem to have clines over both environment and politics/etc.

[Expat]

I think in general society is biased towards extroversion (they all want to fix the introverts).

Yes, but "extroversion" in the sense of "socially outgoing", not necessarily in the sense of having an extroverted first function as in socionics.

[Creepy-]

I think in general society is biased towards extroversion (they all want to fix the introverts).

Yes, but "extroversion" in the sense of "socially outgoing", not necessarily in the sense of having an introverted first function as in socionics.

That is what I was referring to , thanks.

[snowyc]

In my TI-Ne book of reality (or life)...

To extravert means "to think by acting";

To introvert means "to think before acting";

So... it has little or nothing to do with a person actual shyness or sociability although it may appear that it does, at least superficially.

For the sake of arguement: Introverts tend to fall into 2 groups... those that really are shy through a lack of extroversion and those that are self-confident with a good dose of trained extroversion.

This relates to the same way society just-is regardless of your type and whether it's arguably good or not good.

[Creepy-]

In my TI-Ne book of reality (or life)...

To extravert means "to think by acting";

To introvert means "to think before acting";

So... it has little or nothing to do with a person actual shyness or sociability although it may appear that it does, at least superficially.

For the sake of arguement: Introverts tend to fall into 2 groups... those that really are shy through a lack of extroversion and those that are self-confident with a good dose of trained extroversion.

This relates to the same way society just-is regardless of your type and whether it's arguably good or not good.

Well, at a young age I was very shy and introverted and most likely would of scored INFP. Though, I always had this need to be noticed and liked by others, so did that mean I was a very shy ENFP? Now, I've become a lot more extraverted in some ways because I'm not shy around people any more. However, I tend to be very shy around specific things. I share both extraverted and introverted qualties where I love to be outgoing, but I do need time to unwind and relax after a while, but ENFPs tend to share that trait though. I'd prefer to go out with others, but if I couldn't and was forced to do solitary activities, I wouldn't go crazy.

[Creepy-]

In my TI-Ne book of reality (or life)...

To extravert means "to think by acting";

To introvert means "to think before acting";

So... it has little or nothing to do with a person actual shyness or sociability although it may appear that it does, at least superficially.

For the sake of arguement: Introverts tend to fall into 2 groups... those that really are shy through a lack of extroversion and those that are self-confident with a good dose of trained extroversion.

This relates to the same way society just-is regardless of your type and whether it's arguably good or not good.

Well, at a young age I was very shy and introverted and most likely would of scored INFP. Though, I always had this need to be noticed and liked by others, so did that mean I was a very shy ENFP? Now, I've become a lot more extraverted in some ways because I'm not shy around people any more. However, I tend to be very shy around specific things. I share both extraverted and introverted qualties where I love to be outgoing, but I do need time to unwind and relax after a while, but ENFPs tend to share that trait though. I'd prefer to go out with others, but if I couldn't and was forced to do solitary activities, I wouldn't go crazy and could enjoy myself depending on what the activity is.

[Kirana]

even given the proper definition of E/I, most societies still favour extroverts. people are less tolerant of types who like time alone for introspection and reflection. or time alone for anything. i've known introverts who are considered selfish because they would like some time on their own to think, or because they don't automatically seek people.

society does not favour me. i tend to be appreciated, depended upon, but i don't belong.

[Raver]

even given the proper definition of E/I, most societies still favour extroverts. people are less tolerant of types who like time alone for introspection and reflection. or time alone for anything. i've known introverts who are considered selfish because they would like some time on their own to think, or because they don't automatically seek people.

society does not favour me. i tend to be appreciated, depended upon, but i don't belong.

I think its the same for intuitive types, but I think it is because introverts and intuitives are only 25% of the population, while the rest of the aspects are all 50% of the population.

Being a P can be very stressful at times because schools, companies and almost everything is run in a J-like style, but I guess that kind of makes sense or else there would be chaos. Though, it would be nice if it were more balanced.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I'd go with way less than 25% but in the grand scheme, variances probably add it up that far. And yeah Ive seen the bajillion charts with varying figures. None of them are all that helpful

[Creepy-bg]

[web:02ffd716c4]http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?p=40470&highlight=#40470[/web:02ffd716c4]

[Kirana]

do Is have parties? well, maybe some types do throw parties. just can't imagine an INTj throwing a party. i never even had a birthday party, and frankly i was more relieved than sad. it was much better celebrating things with close friends (say, 1-3 nos) and close family.

and i'm not good at the hospitality thing either. i have to learn it step by step, like,

1. guests have to be invited in, as soon as they arrive.
2. then invite them to sit down. then they like to be offered a) drinks b) light snacks. if they refuse, this is only politeness, i am expected to insist.
3. i am supposed to make them feel welcome. (i still have trouble with this one, unless the guests are my friends).

and so on.

i sound like a robot now.

[Creepy-]

do Is have parties? well, maybe some types do throw parties. just can't imagine an INTj throwing a party. i never even had a birthday party, and frankly i was more relieved than sad. it was much better celebrating things with close friends (say, 1-3 nos) and close family.

and i'm not good at the hospitality thing either. i have to learn it step by step, like,

1. guests have to be invited in, as soon as they arrive.
2. then invite them to sit down. then they like to be offered a) drinks b) light snacks. if they refuse, this is only politeness, i am expected to insist.
3. i am supposed to make them feel welcome. (i still have trouble with this one, unless the guests are my friends).

and so on.

i sound like a robot now.

Woah I must be INTj :wink:
Being a host(ess) requires my constant energy/attention. It's a little tiring! I also try to avoid large social gatherings.... stress!!!

[Joy]

Hosting parties sucks because you can't just do what you want. Usually in groups I talk to a few people until I find an interesting person and then I talk to that person for hours. It sucks though because then the next time I see that person they expect me to talk to them, and I end up avoiding them. I don't like feeling obligated to do anything, particularly socially.

[Kirana]

hi ishy. i think introverts in general just tend to avoid large gatherings. i couldn't tell if it held true for other types as well as mine. maybe ISFps might hold parties? i don't know. it's just that for me, not only are parties tiring and usually boring, i honestly do not know what people want during the party. i can't seem to pick up on the needs of guests, like if they are getting bored, nor do i know what to do.

[Creepy-pokeball]

do Is have parties? well, maybe some types do throw parties. just can't imagine an INTj throwing a party. i never even had a birthday party, and frankly i was more relieved than sad. it was much better celebrating things with close friends (say, 1-3 nos) and close family.

and i'm not good at the hospitality thing either. i have to learn it step by step, like,

1. guests have to be invited in, as soon as they arrive.
2. then invite them to sit down. then they like to be offered a) drinks b) light snacks. if they refuse, this is only politeness, i am expected to insist.
3. i am supposed to make them feel welcome. (i still have trouble with this one, unless the guests are my friends).

and so on.

i sound like a robot now.

This is why you let poor smucks who enjoy hosting parties do it. I'd never let random strangers in my home =p screw them, they can go trash their own.

[Joy]

Okay, fine, I've thrown drinking parties. Prolly over 100 actually... but I was more the bartender than the hostess...

[mimisor]

In my TI-Ne book of reality (or life)...

To extravert means "to think by acting";

To introvert means "to think before acting";

So... it has little or nothing to do with a person actual shyness or sociability although it may appear that it does, at least superficially.

I wonder, is that so??? Introversion has nothing to do with sociability???
Well, i believe it does, but in different ways depending what kind of introverted are you.

btw socionics does not associate extroversion with sociability but rather with initiative.

so

extroversion = initiative
introversion = expect initiative

For the sake of arguement: Introverts tend to fall into 2 groups... those that really are shy through a lack of extroversion and those that are self-confident with a good dose of trained extroversion.

To be honest, at first, before I discovered the whole socionics thing, I thought all introverts are like me, I mean finding it so difficult to socialize. But no, it would just be wrong to put the introverted types into one uniform mass. My guess is INTjs and INTps are the most unsociable. ISFps and ISFjs are the most sociable introverts and I think the training that you are talking about does not apply to them.

And I agree with ishy that our society favours the extraversion, meaning outgoingness, sociability, initiative it's all the same to me!!!