Alpha-Delta arguements can indeed be entertaining.Originally Posted by FDG
Alpha-Delta arguements can indeed be entertaining.
Don't you mean Beta-Delta, lol.
Well Socionics is all about patterns. Patterns are predictable.
If someone is a certain type, he'll be that type for the rest of his life, including all the behaviour characteristics. So he becomes predictable in a sense.
Relationships descriptions are another example of predictions. They predict how type A will relate to type B. I think it's not necessary to say that it doesn't predict everything regarding to a relationship, but there's a clear framework.
Agreed. There is no such thing as accurately predicting on a micro level in psychology, but that isn't necessary either to be of practical use.Also, attempting to reliably predict and accurately predicting are not one and the same.
Correct, in theory. Faulty, in reality. Patterns are predictable, but not when there are various other possible social factors that may potentially alter socionic "conclusions." It's happened before.
You should probably agree with me more often.
Fair enough. Your input is noted and appreciated.
Socionics doesn't claim to take into account all other factors. It claims for example to predict how two types relate to eachother in a close psychological distance under normal circumstances.
Newtonian science doesn't predict well under all circumstances, though it's still a very useful model.
If you want a model that's perfect, then you better stop looking for it, cause there is none.
We are dealing with sociology here, which is the most complex of the 7 sciences, so you'll never even have a nice and straightforward model like in math, science, astronomy etc. Nonetheless Socionics does a very good job in predicting and is comparable to other models in related branches.
Even if it doesn't "claim" to predict "all the other factors," which really isn't the point, those factors will exist nonetheless and occassionally fuck up whatever intertype predictions socionics does claim to make.
Your reasoning sounds like this.
So if an apple falls of a tree, newtonian science can predict it, but when the wind blows, and the apple slows down a bit, newtonian science is off, and therefor newtonian science cannot predict how quickly apples fall.
I think we all know that newtonian science is nevertheless very useful in predicting.
All social sciences are troubled because of their complexity, nonetheless their models give sufficiently good approximations of future events. Socionics is one of the many.
Last edited by Jarno; 04-17-2009 at 11:46 PM.
Oh well. No offense but I see the reason why STs are so incompetent about dealing with personal issues. They often lack the ability to investigate the point of view of all sides involved; quickly jumping to (logical) conclusions as if a single source of information was universal.
First, and most important, this woman and my father are conflicting types (LII - SEE). She's projecting her dislike toward him on the entire family.
Second, my mom is EIE and it's she -and not us- the one for whom mercenary attitude toward people is usual business. She was the one who requested her to babysit us in the past and stopped talking to her when she was no longer useful. The thing here is that my mom, being Fe dominant, is quite skilled at making people to believe they are closer than they really are. We don't pretend to and never request this woman anything.
Third, are you nuts or what? This woman is completely off mixing personal stuff with our relationship as neighbors. Living in society -specially in a large city- requires a certain level of cooperation based on mutual necessity more than anything else.
You've learned nothing if you believe that STs teach NFs about "human quality". Self complacency, most likely.
[]
| NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
If she is right that there was a time during which she was useful, but then nobody cared when she needed someone and you don't even greet her, her reaction is legitimate to me. I would feel the same way, except that I wouldn't tell you because I wouldn't want the conflict. The only thing that seems SEE about her reaction is that she actually told you. For the rest, if what she says is true, I can totally see where she is coming from.
And no offense to you, but this is not how it works for Fi types. You/your family made her feel used and now she feels that you have the audacity to ask for a favor. If you were an IEE, I would not have to explain this because it would have come to you naturally. You would have immediately understood where she is coming from and you would not have tried to find an explanation through personality theory because her reaction would have been crystal clear to you.Third, are you nuts or what? This woman is completely off mixing personal stuff with our relationship as neighbors. Living in society -specially in a large city- requires a certain level of cooperation based on mutual necessity more than anything else.
They were well can because sometimes ENFps get caught up in Ne confusion and need Te to assess things, especially when they are stressed. Cyclops assessed the situation correctly (based on the information you provided). You are the one who obviously does not understand that "Fi bonds" do not have to be mutual and that feelings of feeling used, neglected, or others happen detached from neighborly obligations.You've learned nothing if you believe that STs teach NFs about "human quality". Self complacency, most likely.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Deante, your aversion to predicting future behavior comes from weak Ni. It is a bias, that is all. You wouldn't know how to predict future behavior without overstating yourself; you would think "well it is very possible that won't happen"; you don't have the natural disposition of planning things around probabilities and not certainties. That is fine. The problem is you're pretending your disposition on this is 'the best' disposition. No, your I.M. elements are not a universal law. I see no reason I should be afraid to predict the future in terms of probability.
I really disagree with this. If I was in her position I probably wouldn't let you in my house tbh. Cooperation is not required.
I agree with me having "weak" and unvalued Ni. Making others' Ni super-id mistypings for me all the more ludicrous.
Interesting, wasn't aware I came off quite like this.
By all means, have at it. Good post too btw.
@Kim:
The difference between you and me is that I have a LII handy to see the other side of the coin. Her complaints were unrelated to the problem at hand; thus invalid.
As an update, I installed the cable without her consent. She came out and we shouted to each other and she took some of the electrical tubing away. I then went to the police and accused her of robbery. They gave me the reason, but they appealed to my human sense and asked me not to take legal action against a 60 year old woman. So I didn't do anything against her.
Think of me as heartless, but you'll be wrong.
[
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
No, I'm pretty sure you're heartless.
Do other Deltas like you? I like Deltas.
That has nothing to do with anything. She told you that nobody came to see her sick husband and nobody greets her. I cannot see any ENFp describe the situation like you did and on top of it, explain away behavior on your part that does not consider that she might have hurt feelings, justified or not.
And your latest post just makes you seem callous and selfish. I am sorry, but an LII father does not explain that. I don't see any NeFi whatsoever from you in this thread. NeFi would have assessed the situation much differently and would have considered why she might feel the way she does.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I agree with what Kim's said.
You don't seem to value or even understand Fi, or for that Delta values, Mikemex.
. . . .
In regards to interaction with society and neighbours, this takes the form of people in a society not stealing, looting, murdering each other, it doesn't mean people have to keep bending over backwards to help you when you don't appreciate it. Some would say that interaction with your neighbours involves the courtesy of saying such things as hello and good morning, eh, I can't believe i'm typing something that's so obvious to me.
I think an LII father is irrelevant here. Maybe you want someone to listen to your problems over that and help your emotional knots. Could be you need an F type more than a T type as your dual?
Oh, and I would be on this womans side, should I live there, by the sounds of what you've described. Although she over-reacted with the cable, she could have sabotaged it when you weren't there if she wanted to be coy. That she did it for you to see would possibly suggest to me she's still hurt and that there's still an avenue for you to make amends with her. Oh, and at least the police talked some sense, for once, ha.
I understand what you mean by cooperation in neighborhood. But in her place I wouldn't think about any cooperation even if we had to live in the same room.. You should have tried to refresh your relation before asking something from her and I think she would end up being more helpful :wink:
SEEs are only helpful to those who 'are' in their lives. Seems like she has deleted you and your family from her life very long ago. And you know why.
No, you have been an ass. And now you are blaming everyone else (her, your parents, socionics intertypes) except the one who's been an ass, you. Stop being an ass, maybe then you will get some cooperation from people.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
true but he's still an ass as well
Whoa I just read the whole thread and I have a lot of opinion to express but it seems useless.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Reply With Quote
