What's with all the Fi talk lately?

[Creepy-pokeball]

It seems to be a common theme/concern as of late. Why so? I thought it was humorous... I quickly skimmed INTPcentral and a few of them had a post wishing they had more Fe. Im reading... and reading... and reading... and theyre rationalizing...rationalizing...rationalizing. I was thinking, "Geezus, theyre certainly not going to get it here or online! Nor by rationalizing it--especially if many of them put it down continuously!" I bet the similar is true for Fi (I do admit that the ethic and acceptance of F is better here than most type forums, which is good imo).

So anyways, what's with all the Fi concern lately? And how do any of you feel would best help you develop said lacking. Personally I'd find someone with a strong dosage of it but it seems that many of you seem to dislike interacting with types that do not benefit you relationship-wise (I still say weak sauce imo!). What do any of you think about Pygmallion Effect (or Theory) and Socionics? I'm sure you're all gonna quote me saying that this is an ENFj cliche but... I think we all have a lot to teach each other--and not all of it is verbal.

[Creepy-]

If was my PoLR, I wouldn't want to find someone with a strong dosage of it, I like to avoid having serious discussions with people because it's terrible for self-esteem.

people, however, are lovely! If was my hidden agenda I would enjoy being around people.

Personally, I think Delta can be scary. All the moral-ness etc. Gamma can also be scary, but less so. ISFj's seem so much more open-minded than INFj's, at least from my perspective.

[Expat]

ISFj's seem so much more open-minded than INFj's, at least from my perspective.

Could you elaborate on that?

[Creepy-]

Well, an ISFj seems less likely to punish you for "crimes" than an INFj. INFj punishments also seem to exceed the severity of the wrong-doing. I might be thinking this because one is my Benefactor and the other my Quasi-Identical, I'm not sure. Has anyone else had an observation like this?

[Expat]

Well, my experience is the exact opposite of yours. ISFjs "punish" others more harshly because of their strong which the INFj lacks.

Also, due to their weak and hidden agenda, ISFjs tend to be more rigid in their ethical principles, so if they consider that somebody has done something wrong, they tend to see it in absolute terms - and therefore all the more likely to punish harshly. They're similar to ISTjs on that, although the ISTj's sense of "wrong" would be different.

An INFj is more likely to consider the possibility that perhaps the "wrong" was relative.

[Creepy-]

Hmm, perhaps it's the INFj's I know. And that the ISFj's I know are all twice my age or more.

[Creepy-pokeball]

*shrug* I do just fine around those with functions that are more difficult for me. I honestly dont get the big deal. People, in general, are fluid--not static. Would I PREFER to be around Fe/Ni/Se/Ti more...yeah. But how boring and handicapping would that be 24/7/365? Very. So limiting imo. All I can say is weakkkkkkk sauce to that. Zzz...

But let's get back to the main message of this thread... nurturing of functions.

[Darklord]

Well, an ISFj seems less likely to punish you for "crimes" than an INFj. INFj punishments also seem to exceed the severity of the wrong-doing. I might be thinking this because one is my Benefactor and the other my Quasi-Identical, I'm not sure. Has anyone else had an observation like this?

Woo! Ph34r me as I fly around the world with my whip and guillotine, looking for Sinners to Smite !

The next time I punish somebody will still make my total counter of punishments comminted less than 10. To be brutally honest, anybody who stands still to let me punish them are either amoebae, stoical to the point of being worthy of praise, or slow and dumb enough not to realize that they can get out of it by moving half a meter and then doing it. I'm not big, strong, fast, intimidating or smart enough to be able to punish anybody who do anything about it.

[discojoe]

Stop hijaculating the thread, guys.

is a popular point of discussion mainly because NT types seem to be weak in the area, especially ENTps, who are understandably one of the most popular types. is an interesting and painful weakness to have, because on the one hand, I can pretty much be good at anything I want to, and have lots of friends and be controversial and original. The price for this power is an underlying sense of guilt and shame that builds up over time. So, we need to seriously sit down and think about where we're going and what the moral consequences of our decisions will be, otherwise our combo of doom will overload us and make us go overboard, to the possible detriment of our important relationships. Also, we are not good at being genuinely close with people unless we are VERY comfortable around them, which requires that they maintain a relatively high level of possitive reinforcement, always encouraging and complementing us. ISFps are perfect for this. God I love em.

[Rocky]

ISFps are perfect for this. God I love em.

Of course you do... you're best friend is one. :wink:

[Joy]

ISFps are perfect for this. God I love em.

Of course you do... you're best friend is one. :wink:

Do you think this is charming Rocky? Or clever? Or do you just have a thing with having to be right? I'm just trying to figure out what your motivation for posting stuff like this is.

[Joy]

oh yeah, and on the topic of the thread...

I've been pondering weak a lot lately because I had never realized just how emotionally detached I've always been. It's been worse at certain points in my life than at others. It's a problem because in the past I've done things without an understanding of how it would affect my emotions and the emotions of people around me. I've done some pretty reckless things. It's not so much a matter of never knowing how I feel, but it does take longer for me than it does for most people.

For example, one time I dated this guy for a year and a half and then broke up with him. I wanted to start dating right away and I knew that he was heartbroken, so I decided that setting him up with someone was the best way to go... then I wouldn't feel guilty. Low and behold... there was my best friend. I somehow guessed that there was a mutual attraction and asked each of them about it. I found out that they had crushes on eachother before I dated him. The two had not even considered flirting with each other while I was with him and even put the attraction out of their minds out of respect for the relationship. Well... I set them up. After a few weeks it became apparent that it was a BAD idea. I couldn't talk to her without hearing "Mike and I this" or "Mike and I that" and he didn't want to hang out with me much anymore because she was insecure about it. In the end I lost the friendship of the two people who had considered me the most important person in their lives for the previous year and a half. It was a really shitty place to be. That was when the emotions from the break up itself caught up with me, too. Fun times. If I had not set them up, they probably would have eventually dated anyways, but not for a little while. It would have given me time to heal and I may not have lost the friendships (although I guess I'm still sorta friends with him).

The moral of the story is that weak makes it difficult to understand how circumstances affect emotions, both in ourselves and others. As a result it is more difficult to make decisions.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Nurture it ^_^ pfft, wusses =p

[Catholic Schoolboy]

?

Where?

[Joy]

Nurture it ^_^ pfft, wusses =p

THAT is why ENFjs creep me out.

[stefana]

......

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[tempus]

"I think we all have a lot to teach each other--and not all of it is verbal."

Quite true, but I think it's probably best to find people who help you further develop your innate strengths rather than your weaknesses. Too much emphasis on the weak parts of a personality can lead to stress and mental exhaustion. In other words, I'm saying that a person shouldn't worry about weak Fi, but should try to develop their Ti in order to be the best possible version of themselves that they can be.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Thank you Diana. That is what I was trying to head this for.

[Creepy-pokeball]

"I think we all have a lot to teach each other--and not all of it is verbal."

Quite true, but I think it's probably best to find people who help you further develop your innate strengths rather than your weaknesses. Too much emphasis on the weak parts of a personality can lead to stress and mental exhaustion. In other words, I'm saying that a person shouldn't worry about weak Fi, but should try to develop their Ti in order to be the best possible version of themselves that they can be.

Why not both face and shadow sides? mmm balance. How do we know that nurturing inate only is the best possible variation?

[tempus]

Oh, there's an interesting article on that. I'll try to find it for you.[/i]

[Creepy-pokeball]

Sweet! =D

[tempus]

Here's a nice, lengthy article on the perils of trying to develop weaknesses rather than natural strengths, a process that is referred to in this article as "falsifying type."

http://www.ddbauer.com/RethinkingStress.html

[tempus]

http://www.benziger.org/content/view/15/27/

This is a good article too. It explains the science behind the first article I posted. Actually, now that I think of it, it's probably more relevant and meaningful to this discussion than the first article. I'll leave the link to the other one up anyway, in case anyone's interested.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Ahhh! I remember that stuff from a few years ago. I'm not so sure that it is all that strong, though. Like I have said before, I see functions as only a fraction of the pie. I think that the burden that the one's not directly aiding us are indirectly beneficial in the long run. I never stated that growth felt good initially or that we had to "go against the grain" for long periods of time. The majority of what I had read int he past was career-oriented areas. Like say, an NF being a construction foreman. That would become a true burden of short-term and long-term stress. But being around and learning/interacting with those of stressful functions in a mature fashion? No problem. Communication is your friend ^_^

[Creepy-]

"I think we all have a lot to teach each other--and not all of it is verbal."

Quite true, but I think it's probably best to find people who help you further develop your innate strengths rather than your weaknesses. Too much emphasis on the weak parts of a personality can lead to stress and mental exhaustion. In other words, I'm saying that a person shouldn't worry about weak Fi, but should try to develop their Ti in order to be the best possible version of themselves that they can be.

Why not both face and shadow sides? mmm balance. How do we know that nurturing inate only is the best possible variation?

And one could answer you with: "Why do we need to strive for perfection? Can we not accept our weaknesses and move on?"

[tempus]

"But being around and learning/interacting with those of stressful functions in a mature fashion? No problem. Communication is your friend ^_^"

Using a weak function is stressful and exhausting. Interaction with someone whose strong functions are your weak functions can be stressful and exhausting also. However, I'm sure as long as the interaction takes place on a polite, mature level that this does not necessarily have to be the result. The result will probably be acceptance of personal differences and tolerance of weaknesses, not a desire to strengthen them. Indeed, if there is a desire to strengthen the other person's weaknesses it can be uncomfortable for that person and may seem to indicate a lack of acceptance and respect which can really knock things down off that "polite, mature level" and consequently produce the aforementioned stress. It is therefore highly doubtful that this type of interaction can be viewed as a stress-free method of strengthening innate weaknesses, but can be at best viewed as a lesson in understanding individual differences.

[Olga]

Diana wrote:

Another question: If a person did have weak Fi, how exactly could they develop that? And why would they want to? And once again, what exactly does having weak Fi mean?

If we talk about any weak function, we need to strengthen it through the achievments on other functions. We need protect ourselves from danger one way or the ohter - the matter of survival and happy existence. The knowledge you collect on the first function plus effort on the fourth should do the job but perfection is impossible in anything. The whole idea of survival may be in balancing. You more than good in one, bad in another - survive and enjoy the process!
The first and the fourht functions are important for us to stay in the life and remain sane. When we die and go into spiritual world the opposite will be true. The way we tried to protect ourselves in life using our forth function will be not important - sins will be forgiven - we are only humans at the end! Nobody will be interested how much knowledge we collected by using the first function - that was a gift and fun in life as well as a learning process. Are you a king or a boss or a cleaner in life.....
The second function is creative: what have you done for others?
The third function is weak: how much did you to improve yourself?
Thats were my thoughts today. Its nice to have mind and play with thougts.

[Creepy-pokeball]

"I think we all have a lot to teach each other--and not all of it is verbal."

Quite true, but I think it's probably best to find people who help you further develop your innate strengths rather than your weaknesses. Too much emphasis on the weak parts of a personality can lead to stress and mental exhaustion. In other words, I'm saying that a person shouldn't worry about weak Fi, but should try to develop their Ti in order to be the best possible version of themselves that they can be.

Why not both face and shadow sides? mmm balance. How do we know that nurturing inate only is the best possible variation?

And one could answer you with: "Why do we need to strive for perfection? Can we not accept our weaknesses and move on?"

Perfection? That has little to do with it. My reasoning has to do with not throwing away possibilitites just because of one factor. I'm trying to show why it can be a tool of bias that restricts possibility without many other considerations as well. "Hey I love you. I love you, too. Oh but wait, my friend said that we were psychological contraries, sorry. Later" .... so lame. But beyond that, it also would aid in creating lessened adaptability to others not within your preference/relations of preference. Summary to me: the risk of one loss is greater than the risk of another loss.

[tempus]

"Why not both face and shadow sides? mmm balance. How do we know that nurturing inate only is the best possible variation?"

Oh, I thought of another arguement against this besides the stress/exhaustion thing: the fact that balance is so limiting. The development of one function will always occur at the expense of another. Supposing someone has weak Si and strong Ni, if they chose to develop Si they would probably end up having a mediocre command of both Ni and Si. On one hand, this person probably wouldn't have any trouble adjusting to the various realities of life; on the other hand, the mediocrity this produces doesn't exactly lead to the path of the greatness that comes with true self-actualization.

[Creepy-pokeball]

The command would be weak but the understanding would be greater and it could become useable to a degree that lessens the negative factors that a high function could have.

...but this is on the perfection level Ishy was referring to which really wasnt my point. My point has to do more with barriers, biases, acceptance, possibilities, limitations etc.


However, if you want to go on the route of perfection, many could argue that I need a shitload more S and that the abundance of N hinders me at times which could interfere with said perfection or greatness, (whatever loftly goal...)etc.

[Creepy-]

I was just showing the other point of view. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

I suppose it depends on how the individual learns acceptance. Personally I don't think developing weaknesses is necessary for breaking barriers etc.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I was just showing the other point of view. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

I suppose it depends on how the individual learns acceptance. Personally I don't think developing weaknesses is necessary for breaking barriers etc.

What other ways are possible (serious question). The way I see it, learning a weakness of mine that is a strength of another lets me veiw their world and perspective and compare it with my own. I guess the arguement in that is that it could be dangerous in unethical minds lol.

[tempus]

"many could argue that I need a shitload more S and that the abundance of N hinders me at times which could interfere with said perfection or greatness, (whatever loftly goal...)etc."

Yes, but in trying to develop S you would be met with discomfort and frustration, which is why you should focus on using your strengths to your maximum advantage, which is entirely my point.

[Creepy-]

I was just showing the other point of view. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

I suppose it depends on how the individual learns acceptance. Personally I don't think developing weaknesses is necessary for breaking barriers etc.

What other ways are possible (serious question). The way I see it, learning a weakness of mine that is a strength of another lets me veiw their world and perspective and compare it with my own. I guess the arguement in that is that it could be dangerous in unethical minds lol.

Life experience, or a willingness to be open-minded.

[Creepy-pokeball]

What's the difference? Isnt that what Im implying?

[Creepy-]

They don't need to go hand-in-hand, that's what I'm saying.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I see. much-o more sense-o.

[Kirana]

umm... i don;t think that developing your weaker functions necessarily dilutes your strong functions. well, not much.

i see myself as having a greater or lesser command of my various functions. for my strong functions, i have greater control over them, AND i'm comfortable with them.

when i consider it necessary or desirable i do try to improve my weaker functions through various means. this is either to achieve improved control over the limited range that i have, or to increase the range/skill in those functions, or simply to see if i could reduce stress in using them. the first two are achieved more often than the third. just because i've increased my ability in my weak functions, doesn't mean i use them more. it means i can use them more effectively when i need to. i don't intend to use my weak functions beyond a sort of maintenance level, though (to keep from rolling back developments in range and control).