ENTp and INTj with people they don't like

[Creepy-whoever]

Are ENTps a lot more likely to openly show their dislike and contempt of others and make public enemies?

As the 4th function of an INTj is , am I right to say that INTjs do not make enemies with others?

I think those questions should answer the question of whether I am an ENTp or an INTj.


I am having some serious problems with ISFjs and ESFs at work. One of them, an ESFp deliberately acts like I don't exist; I jsut retaliate and do the same. I won't go into details but it's to a point I think I'm being a bit carried away and am not acting rationally. I wonder this is normal for an NT.

[Kirana]

i don't know if i can generalise for all INTjs.

i've been told that my opinions, especially of the contempt category, show clearly on my face and in my body language. so although i have no real interest either in making enemies or making friends, i may make either anyway through no effort of my own. though you need two people to have a quarrel, you only need one to make enemies.

however, regardless of how i feel, how much i despise someone's incompetence or uselessness etc., this is independent of the action i choose to take. my action would be based, as far as i can manage it, on what is fair and proportionate to the actual damage that the person's flaw caused, and also taking into account what i want from that person. it is fruitless to spend energy punishing an idiot if you don't want him to do anything at all anyway. i'd just simply ignore him. this is not for my own satisfaction, but to secure expediency. if i'm forced to salvage something from the guy, and punishing him would not do the trick, but encouraging him and reducing expectations might, then even though i feel he doesn't deserve it that is what i would do.

so, even though people generally know pretty clearly how they stand in my estimation, i don't get personal in my actions. i think getting personal prevents you from being professional. i usually leave if i'm too angry to take an action that is detached from how i'm feeling.

it does hurt when people are mean to me. but being INTj, i'm used to not fitting in, and personally don't really care as long as they aren't threatening my personal freedom. so i don't feel it's worth the bother retaliating or responding to these sorts of people. it's just simply too unimportant to me. getting personal means that the person somehow truly hurt your feelings, whereas only very few people matter enough to me that my feelings can really be hurt by them. colleagues in general simply can't induce that sort of retaliation from me. even when they are actively sabotaging me, i wouldn't sabotage back because i'm hurt by them. i might do it, or threaten to do it, as a last have-no-choice resort to make clear that i'm not powerless, but that would be because it's necessary and not because i'm 'hitting back'.

now we wait and see if the other INTjs can corroborate me or disagree with me. :wink:

[Joy]

I like everyone

[Rocky]

I like everyone

Except sensors.

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

I like everyone

Except sensors.

Your off-the-wall "theories" about either people being S types when they arn't and ...whatever else... like ENTps trying not to like their duels...is getting annoying.

IMO

[Joy]

I never said I don't like sensors.

[Rocky]

I like everyone

Except sensors.

Your off-the-wall "theories" about either people being S types when they arn't and ...whatever else... like ENTps trying not to like their duels...is getting annoying.

IMO

I didn't mean ENTps in general... but Joy has said before that she can't see herself with her dual.

[Joy]

how does that mean that I just simply don't like sensors?

[Rocky]

how does that mean that I just simply don't like sensors?

ehh.. that was just the impression I got from you. You have said things before like you can't "connect" with sensors or something like that... just forget it, we're cool.

[Joy]

lol okay

it's not a good idea to try to understand ENTps... we're a difficult bunch...

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Joy]

yeah I've said, "Why do you think we haven't really hit it off?" or something like that... usually I know though.

[mike_INTJ]

Are ENTps a lot more likely to openly show their dislike and contempt of others and make public enemies?

As the 4th function of an INTj is , am I right to say that INTjs do not make enemies with others?

I think those questions should answer the question of whether I am an ENTp or an INTj.


I am having some serious problems with ISFjs and ESFs at work. One of them, an ESFp deliberately acts like I don't exist; I jsut retaliate and do the same. I won't go into details but it's to a point I think I'm being a bit carried away and am not acting rationally. I wonder this is normal for an NT.

it depends on what you mean by enemies. for me, an enemy is someone who has lost a major amount of trust with.

the trouble your having at work might all be in your head. he may not notice you, because you may not be worth noticing. just out of radar. someone who doesn't impress me, i won't even see. and if there is a language problem, that finishes the deal. details would help us a bit.

are you sure your an NT? many people answer the questions on the test using latest source info (as opposed to a lifetime source). because of this, i theorize, people can change their type each time they take the test. your NT thing might be off --- and no, NT is rational, if your acting irrational on that level (a child's level), your probably not an NT.

[whoever]

my definition of enemy is similar to yours. and believe me, the treatment i get from those people ARE personal. it'd be hard to tell the here; you just have to trust me on that. let's put it this way, i don't kiss ass, i don't hold small chats with them, that's where i'm losing points. i also have a tendency of saying whatever that comes to my mind without caring whether it could be offensive.

i ignore them most of the time. by carried away, i just mean myself sometimes holding some emotions that's close to hatred. i find the feeling a bit too passionate. and yes, in this area, i AM a bit childish.... i hate it a lot when people are the treated with respect...

[whoever]

the previous post is mine.

[mike_INTJ]

my definition of enemy is similar to yours. and believe me, the treatment i get from those people ARE personal. it'd be hard to tell the here; you just have to trust me on that. let's put it this way, i don't kiss ass, i don't hold small chats with them, that's where i'm losing points. i also have a tendency of saying whatever that comes to my mind without caring whether it could be offensive.

i ignore them most of the time. by carried away, i just mean myself sometimes holding some emotions that's close to hatred. i find the feeling a bit too passionate. and yes, in this area, i AM a bit childish.... i hate it a lot when people are the treated with respect...

i do pretty much the same. some find it interesting, other's rude. i speak what's on my mind, sometimes a little too much. i try not to make it sound too insulting. brown nosing was never my thing. i try to show my stuff in skill. but of course, that leads to people thinking that i kiss up.

or those people that have been working there for 30 times longer than i - i know the entire upper management, havn't met the president yet, but it will come. so other's are jealous (near as i can tell).

i'll just keep doing my own thing, and screw the rest of them...

[Satan]

I like everyone

You're just needy.

[Brother Bones]

i've been told that my opinions, especially of the contempt category, show clearly on my face and in my body language. so although i have no real interest either in making enemies or making friends, i may make either anyway through no effort of my own.

I'd say that's dead accurate. I'm always surprised at the number of people who say they consider me a good friend and equally surprised at the people who consider me a complete prick. These are people whom I would consider acquaintances, and yet they still form strong opinions about me when I don't feel anything particulary one way or the other about them.

On the other hand, it's always been a confusing aspect of my life (until learning what I am and reading through some of these posts) that people whom I respect and even like, hate my guts. Or people with whom I think I've made my negative feelings clear about actually respect and revere me.

however, regardless of how i feel, how much i despise someone's incompetence or uselessness etc., this is independent of the action i choose to take. my action would be based, as far as i can manage it, on what is fair and proportionate to the actual damage that the person's flaw caused, and also taking into account what i want from that person. it is fruitless to spend energy punishing an idiot if you don't want him to do anything at all anyway. i'd just simply ignore him. this is not for my own satisfaction, but to secure expediency. if i'm forced to salvage something from the guy, and punishing him would not do the trick, but encouraging him and reducing expectations might, then even though i feel he doesn't deserve it that is what i would do.

Yep.

so, even though people generally know pretty clearly how they stand in my estimation, i don't get personal in my actions. i think getting personal prevents you from being professional. i usually leave if i'm too angry to take an action that is detached from how i'm feeling.

Here's where we differ. I don't intentionally take things to a personal level, especially not at work, but when it comes to being angry I stick with the situation until there's a conclusion. Being angry often bring the truth out of people, then the real work can begin.

it does hurt when people are mean to me. but being INTj, i'm used to not fitting in, and personally don't really care as long as they aren't threatening my personal freedom.

Most of the time.

so i don't feel it's worth the bother retaliating or responding to these sorts of people. it's just simply too unimportant to me. getting personal means that the person somehow truly hurt your feelings, whereas only very few people matter enough to me that my feelings can really be hurt by them. colleagues in general simply can't induce that sort of retaliation from me. even when they are actively sabotaging me, i wouldn't sabotage back because i'm hurt by them. i might do it, or threaten to do it, as a last have-no-choice resort to make clear that i'm not powerless, but that would be because it's necessary and not because i'm 'hitting back'.

now we wait and see if the other INTjs can corroborate me or disagree with me. :wink:

For the most part, I agree with what you say - though, being blistering quick with witty quips, I don't mind slinging a little back, just because it was sitting on the tip of my tounge. It shuts most people down immediately and terminates the exchange in a way that lets them know I won't take any more of their crap and I'm not interested anyway.

I never "sabotage" anything. That's counterproductive to the company at large and myself as the smaller cog in the big wheel. I'll work with anyone, it doesn't matter what my personal feelings are. I won't suffer their crap, but as long as they're productive, I'll do my best to get the job done as well as can be.

[Kirana]

brother bones... when i said i don't retaliate, i didn't mean 'including verbal ripostes'. i can't help it either, and they do really sting. unless the target is too dense to get it. i meant, if they were attempting to character assassinate me, i wouldn't do it back. i might refute them, and expose them for what they are doing, but i wouldn't resort to character assassination myself.

[Polly_G]

I'm usually nice to everyone regardless if I like them or not. I can't hold a grudge for very long either. Someone would have to be a pretty nasty individual for me to completely swear them out of my life.

I don't tend to respond aggressively to threats, instead I analyze them to make sure they are indeed threats. Unfortunately, I don't always deal with these situations right away and I end up exploding, inflicting twice the pain that I received. I "think" its my way of ensuring they will never try to attack me again. I'm learning new methods of dealing with harassing behavior though as I get older that are less dramatic.

If someone is ignoring me, I don't worry about it...that's not a threat to me. I don't feel threatened by "cliques" either as long as they don't expect me to join.

If someone tries to violate my rights or screw me over financially, I will find laws that protect me and let them know just what hell I could put them through if they continue to violate my rights or don't give me my money.

If someone is trying to control me I will completely rebel and sometimes do the opposite of what they are trying to get me to do...even if their way was in my best interest.

One thing that will tick me off pretty quick though is bullying or demeaning behavior. I have stood up to authority on many occassions when I've seen it. I'm more likely to stand up for myself if I see it going on to others around me as well.

If its just me being bullied though I will take it for awhile anyway before I blow. This led to MUCH bullying of myself through school and probably why I'm so sensitive to it now.