Originally Posted by
astralsilky
Over the last ten years or so, I've been close to a few people definitely of the same type as he. They test as ISTJs, vi like ISTjs on many standard socionics sites; fit the profiles; they also fit the MBTI profiles perfectly; the functional analysis makes sense for them (eg Ni HA, Fe POLR, etc.). And I've compared their relations to people of many other types and seen intertype relations affirmed (eg, they warm up to and need Fe, especially from beta NFs). Then contrasted with ISTps I've known. The specific reasons why I say ISTj are far, far too many to list here. The task to do so feels overwhelming. But, a few remarks:
This is the type of individual who generally aims to be polite and inclined toward proper behavior and etiquette when interacting with others, sometimes to a point of extreme formality and genteelism. Yet, they are ever-willing and sometimes, eager, to receive the Mentor guidance of a "Dear Abby"-ish ENFj who always has advice on how to improve such things. (Advice from any other source is typically treated as suspect.) To imply that one may somehow be falling short of their parental responsibilities, for example, can be a horrifying insult to them. At the same time, it can be easy for this type to get so locked into their daily duties that, to many types, they may appear to neglect any special, out-of-the-ordinary nurturing for their relationships.
They are strong-willed and sober-minded individuals. The first hint of any emotionality from them is probably a flare-up of anger. Tears in the average type are extremely rare. You will much sooner see strength and aggression in the face of adversity from them than any passivity or giving in.
Their primary orientation in daily existence: meeting their (logical) obligations. In professional environments, these are the quiet "yes men" who may appear to bend over backwards to get the job done right by perfecting their methodology and following the rules to a T. And they are most chagrined when others find ways to circumvent practical procedures which, to them, is clearly the law. Although it may seem they even take on too many tasks, their hard work and perserverance usually pays off; employers are typically fond of their reverance for the company's logical prcedures and politics, and proven achievements, so as to promote them and reward them with good salaries. This type works hard, but in time, usually has the means within them to provide well for themselves and their families per the typical employment norms within society. It is not so much that they are capable of workaholism, so much as a highly strong dedication toward their role(s).
Details regarding their work tends to be a favorite topical theme of their conversations.
It is common for these types to gravitate toward methodical, procedural/administrative, detailed-oriented work that is behind-the-scenes. The type is often gratified by the concept of reaching a level of professional achievement and acknowledgement of their abilities such that they have been given the task of now teaching their skilled information to a group. This sort of prospect (as an indavertant admiration of their dual's typical strengths) can inspire and gratify them. While the idea of having a few employees report to them seem personally appealing, their are typically not managerial types. They have genuine little interest in overtly directing and managing the activities of others. It is more natural for the to verbally pass judgment instead on the quality of others' performance. They might feel themselves to be a natural gauge as such in their work environments.
In their private lives, their outward personas can change appear to radically, as they go from the business-suit-and-tie professionalism to now, a charming character who indeed does not seem to let member(s) of the opposite go unnoticed. In their minds, it is quite clear when they're around coworkers and superiors IN the office, versus AFTER working hours at an after-party. Their appreciation for beta NF whimsy and nonsensical imaginations MAY even manifest - however, they are mostly the receivers and happy spectators, not the generators of such nonsensical humor. A good example of their humor style: The Adventure of Baron Munchausen. Yet, even during these personal hours, they remain gentle(wo)men, ever displaying a strong degree of restraint in their relations, as well as an ongoing awareness of every individual's social role and how this impacts any immediate situation.
Complaints, depending on the individual's life circumstances, may include: not feeling close to others and part of the group (esp. if they've let themselves become very unhappy and isolated). This occurs if they're not receiving frequent doses of emotionally expressive contacts (eg, expressions such as frequent phone calls, cards, etc.) and do not feel experience regular comradery of some kind.
They are the quickest to point out when someone has performed a task incorrectly, but if it is a direct confrontation it is "taught" to the other person in a most respectful way. If they're on the phone with a friend after work, however, they will freely express their anger and anxiety over such-and-such tasks which were mishandled in the office, etc.
Dual-affirming behavior: if they wish to express affection for a loved one, it is through the accomplishment of regular tasks and chores. If they are feeling especially inspired, they will compliment their loved one on their own performance of such a task with a lighthearted, "good job!" in a way which some types may receive as puzzling, obvious, or parental. However, their dual will warm up to this positive affirmation. ISTjs need a lot of positive affirmation and recognition themselves.
Their sexual drives are, on average, somewhat low. In good health, they have a good amount of energy. Some may take a particularly strong interest in adventures such as surfing, skiiing, hiking, or rafting. If so, they may pursue one or two of interest several times a year, taking careful preplanned trips. The courageous ESTps can especially make great companions for them on these occasions, as the two go off to face their new adventure of skill and conquest. Thoroughly planning and organizing such events for small groups of comrades can feel particularly.
This type may have a special "psychological" issue regarding religion, belief systems, or general matters of faith. They may greatly admire persons who have some type of strong faith, and wish to establish their own, yet continually find it difficult to do so, as they are still seeking logical reasoning to base it on to begin with (or so it appears).
If someone (preferably a beta NF) creates an emotional scene of some kind, the ISTj's attention is grabbed and they exhibit a sincere concern for the situation, and (usually) sympathy for the one undergoing distress.
These are the people who, on average, appear as the dutiful, stuffed shirts who will meticulously iron their clothes before work every day and strive to act proper in all circumstances (yet commonly missing true empathy and understanding completely). They can be delightful people to be around, for certain - however, I've had my share of clashes with them, too.
I could go on, but since you asked - these are just a few remarks based on many observations over time. I've seen this type often have their instinctive attractions and closest relationships with other betas (ESTp, INFp, ENFj) (and the reverse as well).
So there. A few thoughts. I have often considered whether this type I have described may in fact be an ESTj-Si, an ISTp, or even ESTp - or even ISFj. But upon consideration of the observations I've made of these and other types, and relations, and profile standards, I am content with my instincts of what an ISTj is, for now. (I have a lot more reasons and observations inside me than expressed here.)
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(as per tcaudilllg)
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