Is Ezra Gamma?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Why are so many people saying Ezra is Se? Only thing I can see is that he can sometimes be forceful with his opinions. Can someone explain if there are other reasons?

LIE's can be forceful in their opinions. To me his particular brand of communicating when he's been 'forceful' is more LIE. Se just doesn't seem to fit. No offense but with Ezra it's more like a bark where one knows there isn't and couldn't much of a 'bite'.

Why all the talk of Se by those who say he has it? Even a brief summary of why the Se for Ezra would be useful here I think.

[Logos]

somebody tell me why everybody is suddenly jumping on the gamma bandwagon as opposed to SLE.

Probably a sense of complacency that feels compelled to "shake things up" by making departmental changes and transfers of staff between Quadras.

[discojoe]

Se dominant males seem to want to be ENTj.

[Logos]

Se dominant males seem to want to be ENTj.

Have any thoughts as to why that might be the case?

[Joy]

I have a hunch that in six months at least half of the active members here will think he's LIE. Within a year it will be the general consensus (assuming he sticks around).

[ScarlettLux]

Se dominant males seem to want to be ENTj.

Yeah, what's with that?

Is LIE a cool type to be or something? lol, I've really noticed this trend ... imo, Ashton, Ezra and FDG are all Se dominants. SLE for the former two and SEE for the latter.

I still think Ezra is blatantly Beta...

[Phaedrus]

I still think Ezra is blatantly Beta...

Which means that you think that he is blatantly deluded.

[Ezra]

Isha cleared some shit up with me regarding my being Ni creative. She help me rule it out, so that now, I can only be a Se ego type, probably base (I'm retaining LSI and ESI as possibilities, but as types which are very unlikely for me). This essentially leaves SEE and SLE. I had a discussion in The Rampant Lion with Isha and Expat this evening, and they think SEE and SLE respectively, which doesn't help me considering that I've realised my introspection skills are actually much shitter than first I thought. Expat provided many descriptions of and explanations concerning Ti and Fi creative, but it's going to be something that I really have to research more about. He explained what a Gamma social atmosphere was like, and I decided that it's certainly the kind of place I want to be in. Plus, Gammas have the best sense of humour, and I feel my own is closest to it.

In short, LIE is out of the realms of consideration for me now. It's down to SEE or SLE, as, to be honest, Irrational and Extratim are far more likely than Rational and Introtim.

[ScarlettLux]

Which means that you think that he is blatantly deluded.

Umm.. no

[aestrivex]

one of the things i notice about ezra is that he makes a lot of point blank statements about "this is how it is."

as in "my understanding of the model completely precludes my being Ni creative" as above. he talks much more about various structural aspects of socionics than he does about what those aspects really mean.

compared to FDG, who i think is SEE, i think FDG's ramblings are much less focused and much more confused. ezra's are uncertain (seemingly because of the influence of not having anyone to explain it to him... which actually could be a sign of superid Ni + Te).

do these point blank statements not remind anybody of phaedrus/ashton-esque, beta Ti thought?

[aestrivex]

I have a hunch that in six months at least half of the active members here will think he's LIE. Within a year it will be the general consensus (assuming he sticks around).

interesting... i can see this playing out easily with some people, but i disagree on ezra.

for example, snegledmaca: i now think the case on him is so clear that if people cared (and if he cared), people in general would realize their mistake.


one of the things is that the presence of a general consensus often lies in a person being around for a very long time and never having their type challenged by anyone. consider, for example, oft considered LIIs such as science as magic, mariano rajoy, ms kensington, mysticsonic (who might not be LII after all).

ezra does not fit that bill. there are certain aspects of ezra that aren't as clearly attributable to a certain type as compared to some other people. and he's had a history of stirring dissent over his type. and, personally, i think that there are some behavioral tendencies of SEE that make a good amount of sense, but that LIE is overall a misinterpretation.

so we will see.

[Joy]

do these point blank statements not remind anybody of phaedrus/ashton-esque, beta Ti thought?

Not at all, actually. They'll try to aggressively argue you into the ground, where as whatever challenge Ezra's offering is for the purpose of trying to understand. He's always willing to learn more, where as they aren't willing to "be taught" a thing. And while he has a bit of an "in your face" style (sort of), it's not hostile like there's is.

Surely some of this is related to their levels of wellness, but I think there's more to it than that. There's a totally different feel to their styles of communication, imo.

[Joy]

interesting... i can see this playing out easily with some people, but i disagree on ezra.

for example, snegledmaca: i now think the case on him is so clear that if people cared (and if he cared), people in general would realize their mistake.


one of the things is that the presence of a general consensus often lies in a person being around for a very long time and never having their type challenged by anyone. consider, for example, oft considered LIIs such as science as magic, mariano rajoy, ms kensington, mysticsonic (who might not be LII after all).

ezra does not fit that bill. there are certain aspects of ezra that aren't as clearly attributable to a certain type as compared to some other people. and he's had a history of stirring dissent over his type. and, personally, i think that there are some behavioral tendencies of SEE that make a good amount of sense, but that LIE is overall a misinterpretation.

so we will see.

I don't think general consensus means much in terms of accuracy, in all honesty. I'm not sure why I think that, especially considering he doesn't even think he's LIE.

I don't think SEE is a bad choice for him. He does seem more focused on Ti than a SEE should be though. And like I said, I don't have any real problems with LIE for him at this point. Just because he's different from our "benchmark" LIE, Expat, doesn't mean he's not LIE. Expat is (imo) more mellow than the typical LIE. There are certainly fiery ones out there, too. If Ezra is LIE, I don't think there's anything in his behavior/character that couldn't be easily attributed to youth and high levels of testosterone.

But like I said, SEE could work, too.

[Phaedrus]

Umm.. no

After seeing his post right after mine, you should think that he is deluded. Now you have every right to belive that he is.

[Logos]

one of the things is that the presence of a general consensus often lies in a person being around for a very long time and never having their type challenged by anyone. consider, for example, oft considered LIIs such as science as magic, mariano rajoy, ms kensington, mysticsonic (who might not be LII after all).

That is one of the troubling possibilities that I have thought about before. How does complacency affect type identification? Perhaps I am Gamma (let's say the type-of-the-month LIE), but have attached myself to Alpha for so long that the bonds I have established there are reluctant to break or that I cannot pull myself away from from my identification as LII even if I were actually an ILE.

Not at all, actually. They'll try to aggressively argue you into the ground, where as whatever challenge Ezra's offering is for the purpose of trying to understand. He's always willing to learn more, where as they aren't willing to "be taught" a thing. And while he has a bit of an "in your face" style (sort of), it's not hostile like there's is.

Surely some of this is related to their levels of wellness, but I think there's more to it than that. There's a totally different feel to their styles of communication, imo.

I understand that you are talking about Ashton and Phaedrus, but I would not necessarily consider that to be an SLE thing as that would potentially lead to some gross misconceptions about those types and .

[Joy]

like I was saying...

Surely some of this is related to their levels of wellness, but I think there's more to it than that.

[Logos]

like I was saying...

I saw, but I wanted to have that understanding firmly established and freed from possible misconceptions.

[discojoe]

one of the things i notice about ezra is that he makes a lot of point blank statements about "this is how it is."

as in "my understanding of the model completely precludes my being Ni creative" as above. he talks much more about various structural aspects of socionics than he does about what those aspects really mean.

compared to FDG, who i think is SEE, i think FDG's ramblings are much less focused and much more confused. ezra's are uncertain (seemingly because of the influence of not having anyone to explain it to him... which actually could be a sign of superid Ni + Te).

do these point blank statements not remind anybody of phaedrus/ashton-esque, beta Ti thought?

hmm, sort of a nipple sausage, yeah

[FDG]

Se dominant males seem to want to be ENTj.

Apparently, even other people relate to them as if they were ENTjs (in terms of intertype relationships). Strange world, eh?

Niffweed: stop saying that I "ramble". If you took the time to read what I write you would see that there is always a logical progression. So far, I haven't replied much to your comments on my logic because they don't have a lot of effect on my estimation of my own abilities, however you're crossing the line. Not to mention the fact that most of your posts are constituted by ramblings. Then either you apply to yourself the same logic you apply to me - which would make you Ti PoLR - or try to find different arguments.

Is LIE a cool type to be or something? lol, I've really noticed this trend ... imo, Ashton, Ezra and FDG are all Se dominants. SLE for the former two and SEE for the latter.

Then given that LIE is not cooler than any of the other types you have listed, probably the people that consider themselves as LIEs have other reasons behind their decision. Reasons that might be more substantial than "looking cool".

[ScarlettLux]

AHAHA!

[implied]

As for the litmus test between SEE and ESI... Ezra, would you rather impregnate Expat or myself?

i asked him the same question on our first date and he said bullets & doves. ):

[Expat]

I understand that you are talking about Ashton and Phaedrus, but I would not necessarily consider that to be an SLE thing as that would potentially lead to some gross misconceptions about those types and .

Personally I don't think that's a SLE thing; even leaving aside forum SLE examples (such as Herzy and ESTP), the behavior of historical/famous SLEs suggests that they usually can't be bothered about "arguing people to the ground"; possibly because they, essentially, want to be liked and popular and dislike being seen as argumentative jerks. Lenin is perhaps a good case of SLE who did want to destroy opponents in debate, but it would be interesting to know how he behaved when not discussing politics.

However, not only Ashton and Phaedrus but some other people do seem to see discussions of ideas as a sort of "battle" - some even seem to see that as confirmation of their quadra. I would suggest that the types most likely to do that tend to be weak-but-valuing , and/or those who for some reason have a strong need to have their belief in a particular structure confirmed.

[Expat]

Reflections on our latest meeting --

@Joy: I don't think he's LIE, however, I've come to realize that activity partners can be similar.

I don't have objections to Ezra being Gamma, however, when talking to him, he does say things now and then that seem SLE-ish to me.

[implied]

Reflections on our latest meeting --

@Joy: I don't think he's LIE, however, I've come to realize that activity partners can be similar.

I don't have objections to Ezra being Gamma, however, when talking to him, he does say things now and then that seem SLE-ish to me.

heh, it's weird but i have basically the same thoughts. something keeps pulling me back towards beta, just random things he says/does in conversation.

[Expat]

heh, it's weird but i have basically the same thoughts. something keeps pulling me back towards beta, just random things he says/does in conversation.

Yeah. In the "bigger picture", looking at longer terms, I'd say Gamma>Beta; but when talking of specific things and/or people, he does seem Beta-ish sometimes.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Yeah. In the "bigger picture", looking at longer terms, I'd say Gamma>Beta; but when talking of specific things and/or people, he does seem Beta-ish sometimes.

Could you see him appearing more gamma in a few years or so?

[Expat]

Could you see him appearing more gamma in a few years or so?

I see no reason why not.

[Ezra]

for example, snegledmaca: i now think the case on him is so clear that if people cared (and if he cared), people in general would realize their mistake.

Glad you mentioned this, actually. I was not convinced at all, and was utterly dumbfounded that snegdelmaca managed to convince anyone of his being a Te/Fi type.

one of the things is that the presence of a general consensus often lies in a person being around for a very long time and never having their type challenged by anyone. consider, for example, oft considered LIIs such as science as magic, mariano rajoy, ms kensington, mysticsonic (who might not be LII after all).

Good point.

: Mellow is not an adjective I would have used to describe Expat, personally.

Having met him four times, I agree. I'm pretty used to his behaviour by now, and he's anything but mellow.

[aestrivex]

Niffweed: stop saying that I "ramble". If you took the time to read what I write you would see that there is always a logical progression. So far, I haven't replied much to your comments on my logic because they don't have a lot of effect on my estimation of my own abilities,

fine, fair enough.

however you're crossing the line. Not to mention the fact that most of your posts are constituted by ramblings. Then either you apply to yourself the same logic you apply to me - which would make you Ti PoLR - or try to find different arguments.

no. i think that i "ramble," certainly, but not really in the same sense at all, by which your "logical progression" is really often very confused and flighty -- not always, but i've seen a great deal of evidence for it. you tend not to trust anybody else's interpretation, which is ok, but from what i can tell, and this is obviously based upon my own subjective interpretations, you have great difficulty trying to discriminate between various information sources and you tend to sort of pick and choose bits of information seemingly based on spur-of-the-moment perceptions.

and, although you know this, i don't give a shit if you disagree with me. i really am not trying to fight with you here, i'm just giving you my observations.

[aestrivex]

Glad you mentioned this, actually. I was not convinced at all, and was utterly dumbfounded that snegdelmaca managed to convince anyone of his being a Te/Fi type.

not to derail this thread, but he's SLI.

if you want to argue, start a new thread.

[Phaedrus]

not to derail this thread, but he's SLI.

No, he is more likely ILI.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Usually FDG takes the time to explain himself, and I can follow his train of thought better than a few others.

[discojoe]

Ezra is either ESTp or ENFj, imo. When I go England (hopefully sometime in the next year) I will meet him and find out.

[Ezra]

Isha, I'm not sure if you'll ever understand my sense of humour.

Ezra is either ESTp or ENFj, imo. When I go England (hopefully sometime in the next year) I will meet him and find out.

You are seriously coming to England? That is fantastic. I would love to meet you. Bring Joy as well; I would love to meet her too.

[aestrivex]

No, he is more likely ILI.

go shut yourself in a jail cell in switzerland and never come out.

[Joy]

You are seriously coming to England? That is fantastic. I would love to meet you. Bring Joy as well; I would love to meet her too.

Yes, probably sometime this year.

[Khamelion]

Isha, I'm not sure if you'll ever understand my sense of humour.



You are seriously coming to England? That is fantastic. I would love to meet you. Bring Joy as well; I would love to meet her too.

ME TOO DAMNIT!

[Ezra]

Yes, probably sometime this year.

Seriously?

You don't always understand mine.

What's not to say I understand it but don't find it funny?

ME TOO DAMNIT!

Seriously?

We can have a Gammatastic party. Sadly, Isha won't be around, but I'm sure Peter will.

[BLauritson]

I want in on this gamma party. IN I SAY!

[Joy]

Maybe we'll end up having another meet?