Type and Hidden Agenda aka Activating 6th Function

[Expat]

I like them.

A few comments in blue:

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)
IxFp: to understand (to be intellectual?) or "to have understood?" Disliking having to review an understanding?
ESxj: to be perfect or to not make mistakes/overlook anything (to be thorough? to be competent? to be prepared?) I think "to be creative" is probably better
INxj: to be physically comfortable/well (to be stable?)
ENxj: to have the power (wealth/status) to ensure that you'll always have everything you want/need (to be strong? to be unconstrained?) or not to be subjected to the power of others
ISxj: to be certain yes
ExFp: to be knowledgeable yes
IxTp: to have close relationships yes

[Joy]

raisonpure, a lot of what was written didn't seem all that ENTj to me. I don't know if ENFjs act that way, but ENTjs prefer to hire others to see to responsibilities/tasks. Why do it yourself when you can pay someone else to do it? It's a waste of time. The ENTj's time is better spent overseeing his team, those who do work for him, than doing it himself.

I like them.

A few comments in blue:

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)
IxFp: to understand (to be intellectual?) or "to have understood?" Disliking having to review an understanding?
ESxj: to be perfect or to not make mistakes/overlook anything (to be thorough? to be competent? to be prepared?) I think "to be creative" is probably better
INxj: to be physically comfortable/well (to be stable?)
ENxj: to have the power (wealth/status) to ensure that you'll always have everything you want/need (to be strong? to be unconstrained?) or not to be subjected to the power of others
ISxj: to be certain yes
ExFp: to be knowledgeable yes
IxTp: to have close relationships yes

I really don't see "to be creative" in ESxjs... but perhaps this is just because I don't fulfill their hidden agenda so I wouldn't know.

I think it's helpful in a way to examine how the hidden agenda protects the PoLR.

ExTp: they're not sure about how close they are to others or how much others like them, so they want to be popular so they know they're liked and they want people who are supposed to be close to them to provide warmth
IxFp: (here's another that I don't really see the HA of, only the PoLR) they are not knowledgeable and don't see things in practice or get the point, so they want to understand the complexities theories and structures
ESxj: (ugh) they don't have foresight to know what they most likely chain of events will be, so they want to know all of the possibilities of what could happen
INxj: they don't know if they can be independent, so they want to be stable and have their physical needs taken care of
ENxj: they don't know if they provide stability and take care of their physical needs, so they want to be independent
ISxj: they don't know if they can manage all of the possibilities, so they want to be certain
ExFp: they don't understand the complexities theories and structures, so they want to be knowledgeable (not sure about seeing the things in practice or getting the point)
IxTp: they don't want to (don't know if they can?) establish a positive social standing or be charming, so they want to be in close relationships

we could add the creative function to the formula...

ExTp: they can't see the closeness of relationships, so they want to offer their understanding of the complexities of theories and structures in return for someone providing them with a positive social standing and warmth
IxFp: they are not knowledgeable, so they want to provide warmth and positive social standing in return for someone helping them understand the complexities of theories and structures
ESxj: they lack foresight in what will most likely happen, so they want to provide stability and take care of physical needs in return for someone showing them all of the possibilities of what could happen
INxj: they don't know if they can be independent and strong, so they want to show all of the possibilities of what could happen in return for someone providing stability and taking care of their physical needs
ENxj: they don't know if they can provide stability and take care of physical needs, so they want to offer foresight in what will most likely happen in return for someone providing them with independence and strength
ISxj: they don't know if they can manage all of the possibilities, so they want to provide independence and strength in return for someone providing them with certainty
ExFp: they don't understand the complexities of theories and structures, so they want to provide a close relationship(s?) in return for someone providing them with practical knowledge
IxTp: they don't if they can establish a positive social standing, so they want to provide practical knowledge in return for someone providing them with a close relationship(s?)

Okay, so some of them could stand to be tidied up a bit, but I like the idea of considering the 2nd, 4th, and 6th functions as part of the same concept. Now I'm tempted to do something like that with the 1st, 3rd, and 5th...

[Joy]

perhaps "social image" would be more fitting than "social standing"

[Khamelion]

Has anyone noticed that in a way the irrational types' hidden agendas are about having or being something, but the rational types' hidden agendas are about not having or doing something?

are you trying to point out that one is more negative than the other?

but yeah i notice that

these are pretty good, too bad i relate to like 5 of them and can't pick one

[Khamelion]

Here are a few suggestions, some of them unchanged and some are too wordy at present. I'll revise the list as better suggestions come along.

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)

I'm okay with this, as long as it doesn't clash with having close relationships, because I obviously want both. If I had to choose, I'd definitely sacrifice popularity for a romantic relationship I believe in.

attractive statement to me

[Joy]

I should point out that we don't generally realize what we're doing when we're trying to fill our hidden agendas (they are unconscious after all). And people aren't totally incapable in their PoLR, it's just something that they don't have good control over and are insecure about.

Has anyone noticed that in a way the irrational types' hidden agendas are about having or being something, but the rational types' hidden agendas are about not having or doing something?

are you trying to point out that one is more negative than the other?

nah, it's just something that I noticed and mentioned... I hadn't come to a conclusion or whatever

[Mea]

Here are a few suggestions, some of them unchanged and some are too wordy at present. I'll revise the list as better suggestions come along.

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)

I'm okay with this, as long as it doesn't clash with having close relationships, because I obviously want both. If I had to choose, I'd definitely sacrifice popularity for a romantic relationship I believe in.

-off topic-
Wanted to mention this earlier. FDG is nothing like most of the ESTps I know IRL.

[raisonpure]

raisonpure, a lot of what was written didn't seem all that ENTj to me. I don't know if ENFjs act that way, but ENTjs prefer to hire others to see to responsibilities/tasks. Why do it yourself when you can pay someone else to do it? It's a waste of time. The ENTj's time is better spent overseeing his team, those who do work for him, than doing it himself.

It probably has to do with the fact that they're based on the ENxjs around me who are under 24 -- too inexperienced to acquire the sufficient wealth for getting others to do things for them with the snap of their fingers. When school steals away the time to work, one is forced to find other ways to control a group of people: by establishing a presence that people wouldn't dare to say "no" to, for example. Habitual intimidation of the people around you can contribute to that.

As it is, I often feel bummed out when people brush me aside by refusing to do what I demand them to do. It makes me wish I could come across as more threatening; that I could have the same effect on people that Se types do. Otherwise it would be disastrous if obedience and cooperation were essential in a crisis. I wouldn't be able to save my comrades even if I had the means to do so! And even if they wouldn't follow my lead, I'd need extreme endurance and self-reliance to propel them one-handedly towards safety despite all opposition, since my conscience wouldn't allow me to watch as they neared their own death. Whether it's Ti or Se, the aspects I strive to be better at are all in preparation for that "fated day to come".

[FDG]

Here are a few suggestions, some of them unchanged and some are too wordy at present. I'll revise the list as better suggestions come along.

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)

I'm okay with this, as long as it doesn't clash with having close relationships, because I obviously want both. If I had to choose, I'd definitely sacrifice popularity for a romantic relationship I believe in.

-off topic-
Wanted to mention this earlier. FDG is nothing like most of the ESTps I know IRL.

"Being loved" by a random group of people I don't connect with is worthless. I rarely really connect with people, so most of the positive feedback I reiceve from anybody feels really worthless. Here and there I meet people that seem to give feedback that I deem as worthy. I understand how this "worthy" stuff sounds like crap, but that's really how I feel about it.

too inexperienced to acquire the sufficient wealth for getting others to do things for them with the snap of their fingers

Bah. Weaklings. True strengh comes from being able to make people do things for you because they think that your advice/lead is what is necessary to overcome an obstacle. If you have to be wealthy to have power, it's not power. Power either is there, or it isn't. It's inborn, imho, and a weak person can become rich and still be unable to force somebody stronger to do anything for him. Two qualities are essential:
1)Being sure of one's own rightness
2)Being sure that the direction you are pointing towards is the right one, and thus being completely certain of point 1).

I have only known one person in my life that could do both things. An ESTp professor of finance. Dressed like a bum, lived in almost poverty. Yet the class would be completely silenced by his mere presence, and few people would dare speak even when asked directly by him. He probably owned zero assets except his charisma.

[Expat]

Power either is there, or it isn't. It's inborn, imho, and a weak person can become rich and still be unable to force somebody stronger to do anything for him.

Come on. You wouldn't wash my car for me if I paid you 1000 euros for that?

[FDG]

Power either is there, or it isn't. It's inborn, imho, and a weak person can become rich and still be unable to force somebody stronger to do anything for him.

Come on. You wouldn't wash my car for me if I paid you 1000 euros for that?

Of course, but you are losing by paying me 1000 euros for something you can obtain for much less just because I wouldn't wash your car otherwise.

[anndelise]

Power either is there, or it isn't. It's inborn, imho, and a weak person can become rich and still be unable to force somebody stronger to do anything for him.

Come on. You wouldn't wash my car for me if I paid you 1000 euros for that?

you're making an offer, not forcing
you're allowing fdg a choice, forcing someone doesn't allow them choices (or gives them false choices)

[anndelise]

Power either is there, or it isn't. It's inborn, imho, and a weak person can become rich and still be unable to force somebody stronger to do anything for him.

Come on. You wouldn't wash my car for me if I paid you 1000 euros for that?

you're making an offer, not forcing
you're allowing fdg a choice, forcing someone doesn't allow them choices (or gives them false choices)

oh, and actually giving fdg power as you are offering much more money to him when you could get it somewhere else for much cheaper....this suggests that fdg has something you want thus giving him power

[Expat]

Ok --

What if I hire two thugs paying them 100 Euros each so that they will beat FDG up if he doesn't wash my car?

[anndelise]

Ok --

What if I hire two thugs paying them 100 Euros each so that they will beat FDG up if he doesn't wash my car?

that one is a little bit better

so basically, you're giving two thugs power to give FDG a false choice (be beat up or wash the car)
there are, however, other choices FDG could take. He could fight back, he could be beat up and sue you afterwards, etc etc etc.

and, btw, it's the thugs agreeing to take your money to beat FDG up that have the power, not you
....the fact that you had to hire two thugs to beat fdg up if he didn't wash your car suggests that fdg doesn't respect you enough (despite your money) and likely considers you a weak person.

But, yes, this example was far better.

[Joy]

very interesting...

raisonpure, a lot of what was written didn't seem all that ENTj to me. I don't know if ENFjs act that way, but ENTjs prefer to hire others to see to responsibilities/tasks. Why do it yourself when you can pay someone else to do it? It's a waste of time. The ENTj's time is better spent overseeing his team, those who do work for him, than doing it himself.

It probably has to do with the fact that they're based on the ENxjs around me who are under 24 -- too inexperienced to acquire the sufficient wealth for getting others to do things for them with the snap of their fingers. When school steals away the time to work, one is forced to find other ways to control a group of people: by establishing a presence that people wouldn't dare to say "no" to, for example. Habitual intimidation of the people around you can contribute to that.

I'm not sure I follow... ENxjs intimidate people to control a group? Ni types want others to obey them?

As it is, I often feel bummed out when people brush me aside by refusing to do what I demand them to do. It makes me wish I could come across as more threatening; that I could have the same effect on people that Se types do.

Ugh you used the "O" word. haha sorry, I have an ISTj mother so I have quite a knee jerk reaction to the words "obey", "obedience", "submit", "authority", "command", etc.

Why not take a "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" approach to trying to get people to cooperate with you? What types of demands are you making of them, and how? And why? I'm confused by this whole thing...

I'm the type of person who simply arranges various cause and effect elements of a situation so that things will turn out the way I want them to or believe they should. (Some people call it manipulation. :wink It all comes down to my old definition of "diplomacy": getting what you want by making other people think that they're getting what they want. Seriously though... The only way for me to effectively control a situation is to discover what each person involved needs and wants, and then find a solution that is in everyone's best interest. (The only time I do not utilize this approach to interactions with others is when someone tries to pull a power play on me... in which case all bets are off and I either go over their head, explain what's actually going on in the situation and point out practical reasons for things to be the way I want, or simply give them enough rope and watch them hang themselves. Anyways...) If you point out what's in people's best interest in a way that they will be receptive to (which is different for everyone), they will most likely be cooperative and you will see goals being accomplished. Generally, the less apparent your part in making it happen, the better.

In short, the best way to lead people (imo) is to provide motivation. Focus on pointing out or providing reasons for them to do something, and then let them make their own decision. People generally respond better when they recognize that they're choosing to do something rather than simply obeying someone else's commands.

The difference between a boss and a leader is that a leader inspires and motivates people to grow as they reach for a common goal, and (s)he is not concerned with being in charge or taking the credit. Boss's command and threaten people to obey their orders.

Otherwise it would be disastrous if obedience and cooperation were essential in a crisis. I wouldn't be able to save my comrades even if I had the means to do so!

And even if they wouldn't follow my lead, I'd need extreme endurance and self-reliance to propel them one-handedly towards safety despite all opposition, since my conscience wouldn't allow me to watch as they neared their own death. Whether it's Ti or Se, the aspects I strive to be better at are all in preparation for that "fated day to come".

What you've said here has peaked my curiosity. What type of crisis are you worrying about? How likely is it that it will happen? You sound convinced that it will, and it seems like you're worrying that people won't believe your warnings of danger. They can't see it, yet you can, and you feel responsible for everyone's safety.

[Joy]

damn, people posted a lot of responses while I was writing mine

Power either is there, or it isn't. It's inborn, imho, and a weak person can become rich and still be unable to force somebody stronger to do anything for him.

Come on. You wouldn't wash my car for me if I paid you 1000 euros for that?

Nice use of leverage there. I forgot to mention leverage in my post. The idea is still there though (cause and effect relationships).

[Jimbean]

Isn't the ability to earn money power? So if I had the ability to earn money and use it to pay thugs, isn't that power?

[Jimbean]

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)

IMO I think that is as close as you can get for an accurate generalization.

[anndelise]

Isn't the ability to earn money power? So if I had the ability to earn money and use it to pay thugs, isn't that power?

money is only considered aligned with power by those who want/respect money.
an individual who doesn't desire money will not likely view money as being all that powerful. an example would be those who say money can't buy you love...suggesting that maybe love is more powerful than money... or friends are worth more than money, or one's spiritualism is more powerful, or one's health is more powerful, or one's honor, etc etc.

those two thugs wanted money, and it was only by their want that expat became powerful in his scenario.
and yet that very fact that he wanted their skills shows that they themselves have a power expat didn't (or chose not to be associated with)

[FDG]

Ok --

What if I hire two thugs paying them 100 Euros each so that they will beat FDG up if he doesn't wash my car?

I can get beat up, and then go to the police, and you'll feel under pressure for an investigation coming, all of this for what - a car washing. My point is, some people are able to make others do things just because. I'm not one of them, unless rare circumstances in which there is some boundary to cross that nobody else does.

Nice use of leverage there. Very Happy I forgot to mention leverage in my post. The idea is still there though (cause and effect relationships).

Joy please do not use concept you don't know deeply...please. Pretty please.

IMO I think that is as close as you can get for an accurate generalization.

Usually it's ESFjs actually that IME fall under that cathegory.

As for Fe, I dunno. I want Fe from very specific people I like. Not from gruops. They can all die. Popularity has its appeal because it looks cool to have all eyes on you! But it's easy to do it by standing out in some way or another. Keeping it as a behaviour for a long time, seems to be useless to me, and self-defeating.

[discojoe]

FDG's talking about people with commanding presences.

[Joy]

Isn't the ability to earn money power? So if I had the ability to earn money and use it to pay thugs, isn't that power?

money is only considered aligned with power by those who want/respect money.
an individual who doesn't desire money will not likely view money as being all that powerful. an example would be those who say money can't buy you love...suggesting that maybe love is more powerful than money... or friends are worth more than money, or one's spiritualism is more powerful, or one's health is more powerful, or one's honor, etc etc.

those two thugs wanted money, and it was only by their want that expat became powerful in his scenario.
and yet that very fact that he wanted their skills shows that they themselves have a power expat didn't (or chose not to be associated with)

What if the person the thugs go after doesn't want/respect money? It still affects his/her life, and therefore still has power, whether (s)he thinks it should or not.

[FDG]

FDG's talking about people with commanding presences.

Yes, exactly. They don't even have to be physically big. From time to time you see somebody not commanding trying to lead people, but soon the malcontent starts to rise if the same means are employed.

[anndelise]

What if the person the thugs go after doesn't want/respect money? It still affects his/her life, and therefore still has power, whether (s)he thinks it should or not.

who has more power, the king who ordered the death...or the martyr who's followers watched him/her die?
if money was so powerful, uprisings would never occur. those with money may be able to beat people down for years..but eventually there will be an uprising and eventually that power-mongerer will die.

[Joy]

What if the person the thugs go after doesn't want/respect money? It still affects his/her life, and therefore still has power, whether (s)he thinks it should or not.

who has more power, the king who ordered the death...or the martyr who's followers watched him/her die?
if money was so powerful, uprisings would never occur. those with money may be able to beat people down for years..but eventually there will be an uprising and eventually that power-mongerer will die.

How is money not powerful to them if they are willing to revolt over it?

[raisonpure]

Why not take a "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" approach to trying to get people to cooperate with you? What types of demands are you making of them, and how? And why? I'm confused by this whole thing...

As much as I value your suggested approach, I'm not confident enough in my ability to motivate everyone, especially if there were to be people in the group who are resistant to Fe. I can't trust myself to not be sour in moments of desperation, when my (lack of) control over my tone and hand gestures is such that I inadvertently come across as "aggressive" and "agitated" in the most casual of conversations, even when I don't feel particularly "nervous". I don't believe that Fate would be kind enough to provide me with enough time to discover what everyone needs and wants before a crisis occurs. One person alone can jeopardize the rest of the team's efforts by objecting, "you know, I don't think our going to hell is such a bad idea. this project is worthless, anyway". And there's no guarantee that my teammates would be able to see far enough take my warnings seriously -- for all I know, they might not even be aware that they're in a crisis, and ask "what are the chances of that happening?" When I'm overwhelmed by a vision of disaster, I wouldn't have all the time in the world to convey the chain of responses leading to the conclusion in order to answer that question. My natural inclination is to say "just do what I say or else", and I'd be lucky if people can accept the reply "trust me, this is for your own good" in response to the question "why should I do what you say?" (this is the sort of response that makes me wish I were more threatening). I'd be even luckier if they don't ask "why can't it happen any other way?" in ENFp fashion. When worse comes to worst, I'd instinctively resort to force, except I'd rather that I were influential enough that there wouldn't be the need for it in the first place... Or had someone who could relay my messages more effectively. But since I can't always rely on others, I can only hope to fill in the hole by myself. And I believe that the presence can be developed, for an ENFj teacher of mine had it in abundance -- so much that I cried in his first lesson because I was frightened by his vehemence.

What types of demands: Actions that are needed for people to save themselves from future regret.
How: As written above...
Why: I want people to be free of long-lasting suffering. And as you accurately interpreted it, I tend to feel responsible for everyone's safety and welfare. Sometimes even more than my own.

What you've said here has peaked my curiosity. What type of crisis are you worrying about? How likely is it that it will happen? You sound convinced that it will, and it seems like you're worrying that people won't believe your warnings of danger. They can't see it, yet you can, and you feel responsible for everyone's safety.

Essentially, what Diana said about a train heading towards a cliff. It can be as simple as XoX's example of putting out the fire in a kitchen or something as grand as putting out the fire in a building (metaphorically. imagine the interactions between people with different priorities, different strengths and weaknesses. imagine the effort of switching from one tool to another in order to make sure they act without deviating from the proper course)

To answer your second question, danger is always lurking in the corner for me... Unfortunately.

And yes, I worry that they wouldn't believe me. Which is why I think of ways to acquire the traits needed to ensure that they will.

[Jimbean]

As for Fe, I dunno. I want Fe from very specific people I like. Not from gruops. They can all die.

As for me, I would want to get a whole crowd cheering, but if I can't do that, a few people, whomever I consider important, it fine for me.

I think to be praised or complimated is something for some EXTp's, it is not me, but I have seen this before.

[Joy]

@raisonpure

Interesting. I'm not sure how it to interpret it in terms of socionics, but I know that if I knew you irl we'd have conversations about why you worry so much. While worry can be a good thing (because it can warn of danger), excessive worrying only causes problems. And if you picture horrible things in your mind all the time, you're more likely to experience horrible things.

Do you have a type in mind for yourself? I'm trying to picture which type would be best for you. I've thought of you as INFp and I can see how an ESTp could help an INFp feel safe when they chaotically fear that there is danger lurking around every corner. However, the whole thing sounds like weak Ni to me. But then again, I have a hard time seeing exactly where Ni ends and Te begins. (:

[FDG]

@raisonpure

Interesting. I'm not sure how it to interpret it in terms of socionics, but I know that if I knew you irl we'd have conversations about why you worry so much. While worry can be a good thing (because it can warn of danger), excessive worrying only causes problems. And if you picture horrible things in your mind all the time, you're more likely to experience horrible things.

I think she is dramatizing

[raisonpure]

Interesting. I'm not sure how it to interpret it in terms of socionics, but I know that if I knew you irl we'd have conversations about why you worry so much. While worry can be a good thing (because it can warn of danger), excessive worrying only causes problems. And if you picture horrible things in your mind all the time, you're more likely to experience horrible things.

Do you have a type in mind for yourself? I'm trying to picture which type would be best for you. I've thought of you as INFp and I can see how an ESTp could help an INFp feel safe when they chaotically fear that there is danger lurking around every corner. However, the whole thing sounds like weak Ni to me. But then again, I have a hard time seeing exactly where Ni ends and Te begins. (:

I have doubts about my ability to provide for ESTps' Ni dual-seeking with my natural way of thinking. To me, it's asking for a bit too much:

"Greatly we suggest by any forecasts. It always fears gloomy forecasts. For this very reason many representatives of this type are inclined to any superstitions, which are based on the predictions, guess-works, signs. Many of them (especially woman) believe to astro-logical forecasts and try in accordance with them to coordinate its plans and actions. Moreover this even sometimes them helps. (especially, when in the forecast it is said: "on this week it is not necessary to explain relations and to be disturbed on the trifles, but it follows to live quietly, a little more to rest and to be occupied by its health". Approximately the same will say to Zhukov his dual Esenin, who always feels well his emotional state and he always accurately knows that to it it is necessary; and even the gloomiest news Esenin presents with the encouraging smile, as if speaking, that all these are temporary troubles and soon they will pass.)"

"But, when its partner assumes the worst or loses courage, TE (IEI) always is able to cheer up, distract, assure, that all will be good. In a shower it the idealist and the optimist and always trusts in the best. The main thing — it is able to wait patiently that, in what trusts."

Then again, my experience of duality has been limited, so who knows -- maybe the ESTp profile is as screwed as the INFp one. Though if you're confident in typing through body movements and expressions, I can send you videos of myself.

I think she is dramatizing

This is the sort of response that I dread to hear

[FDG]

If it's true, that's what you're going to hear. Maybe the situation where you live is different though and there is a real necessity of always being wary of the possibility of forthcoming danger.

Oh, about that part of the description. I generally just don't like to hear *bad* omens about things that I certainly have to do. If it's something like "I think that X is going to fall to pieces" when I'm still in the choosing moment, it's generally very helpful.

[FDG]

In short, the best way to lead people (imo) is to provide motivation. Focus on pointing out or providing reasons for them to do something, and then let them make their own decision. People generally respond better when they recognize that they're choosing to do something rather than simply obeying someone else's commands.

The difference between a boss and a leader is that a leader inspires and motivates people to grow as they reach for a common goal, and (s)he is not concerned with being in charge or taking the credit. Boss's command and threaten people to obey their orders.

Ah, but you see a leader as something that lasts for a longer time frame. Personally, I'm really against leadership. Leaders are to be used for specific instances where they know better what to do and how to bring results from a situation.

[raisonpure]

If it's true, that's what you're going to hear. Maybe the situation where you live is different though and there is a real necessity of always being wary of the possibility of forthcoming danger.

Oh, about that part of the description. I generally just don't like to hear *bad* omens about things that I certainly have to do. If it's something like "I think that X is going to fall to pieces" when I'm still in the choosing moment, it's generally very helpful.

... Okay, it's true. It's the way I think. It's the way I express myself. While my present surroundings -- a mother who may criticize me at any moment, an environment that demands me to be forceful to make myself heard -- has made me more paranoid and confrontational than before, it really boils down to the mental situation that I live in.

[Joy]

Okay, how's this?

ExTp: to be popular
IxFp: to understand
ESxj: to be creative
INxj: to have stability
ENxj: to be independent
ISxj: to be certain
ExFp: to be knowledgeable
IxTp: to have close relationships

[Exodus]

INxj: to have stability

FWIW I still like "to be comfortable". ISjs like stability too.

ENxj: to be independent

?

IxTp: to have close relationships

Someone explain this one to me.




All the rest I like.

[Joy]

INxj: to have stability

FWIW I still like "to be comfortable". ISjs like stability too.

ISxjs like stability as in certainty. INxjs like stability as far as their physical needs are concerned. You'll never go hungry living with an ESxj! ESxj's provide stability in lifestyle, even when they don't make a lot of money. They'll take side jobs and work overtime. (I think ESxjs are like... the workaholic type in a way.) Perhaps "to have a stable lifestyle/standard of living" would be more fitting?

ENxj: to be independent

?

Cause it's not just about being strong or having power, it's about not having other people have power over you. Freedom and power... independence.

IxTp: to have close relationships

Someone explain this one to me.

They're not the Fi type, their partner is. They need their partner to provide security in the relationship, strong bonds. If their hidden agenda was just "to love" it would mean that they don't need to be loved back, which isn't the case.

[Exodus]

ENxj: to be independent

?

Cause it's not just about being strong or having power, it's about not having other people have power over you. Freedom and power... independence.

It just sounds like a euphemism.

IxTp: to have close relationships

Someone explain this one to me.

They're not the Fi type, their partner is. They need their partner to provide security in the relationship, strong bonds. If their hidden agenda was just "to love" it would mean that they don't need to be loved back, which isn't the case.

ok.

[XoX]

This relates to what FDG said in one other thread where he stated that pretty much everything he does is done in order to "feed" his hidden agenda (in his case to receive Fe from others).

So what do you think. Does hidden agenda have this kind of extremely strong effect on most people and how this manifests differently in different types? Are people really slaves to their hidden agenda and what this means in practice? Is hidden agenda what controls the future of ourselves and the world and the universe without us fully realizing it?

[FDG]

This relates to what FDG said in one other thread where he stated that pretty much everything he does is done in order to "feed" his hidden agenda (in his case to receive Fe from others).

I think I was too extreme. This is valid for things I don't like doing as: school, work, etc however it isn't valid for sports, for example.