I know an LSE who is really into her work.Originally Posted by strrrng
Her big eyes throw me off and think oh Heck, is this really an ENTP? But anyone can have large eyes. It is not much to go on for typing by cognitive functions and Quadra values.
Oddly enough, when I looked for a past post on her nothing turned up. Thanks for the Thread merging again.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
Ayn Rand - ESTJ - Stierlitz
Ayn Rand seems to be very popular amongst Extroverted Thinkers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but all she did was creatively extol introverted feeling as a virtue to be obtained ... Hence driving the Te crowd wild with praise as if self interest first were something novel in consciousness (since for some it is natural and others, not).Ayn Rand seems to be very popular amongst Extroverted Thinkers.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
I now opt for ENTJ
Expat's argument that Ayn Rand herself was not concerned with a systematic approach to her philosophy, but that this was the work of Nathaniel Branden (whom Expat types as ENFJ) seems coherent, though Leonard Peikoff (also ENFJ, in my opinion) is the one who is responsible for what we know as objectivism today, a structured system of thought with rather rigid axioms, premises etc.
From Expat's article on Ayn Rand :
One of Rand's purposes with Atlas Shrugged had been to reach out to people who would understand her ideas and heed her warnings as to where US society seemed to be heading. Deeply depressed by what she saw as the failure of the book in achieving that, she supported the initiatives of her close friend, "apprentice" and on-off lover, Nathaniel Branden (EIE), to whom she had originally dedicated Atlas Shrugged. Branden's concept was that they ought to focus on the spread of her ideas through more direct means than novels. Branden concluded that it was necessary to present Rand's ideas in the form of a fully consistent philosophical system - which they called Objectivism - and to present it to the public in the form of lectures and non-fiction articles and books. Although Rand endorsed Branden's efforts, that remained his own project rather than hers. He founded a company called NBI (Nathaniel Branden Institute) and was its main lecturer. Rand preferred to involve herself less directly, contributing articles and appearing at NBI's Q&A sessions on occasion. Branden, supported by his wife Barbara Branden (ESI), managed to turn Objectivism lectures into a business with a large number of devoted "followers". That gave the Objectivist movement a reputation of being a "cult" around Rand that persists to this day. Ayn Rand's own personality, which became increasingly impatient with intellectual "inferiors" as she aged, contributed to that reputation. However, by all accounts, she herself had no interest in being any kind of cult leader.https://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/search?q=ayn+randObjectivism, as a system or "philosophy", seems to have eventually gained the reputation of a rigid dogma as to how to live one's life, parallel to Rand herself gaining the reputation of a cult leader. This development, I repeat, has far more to do with Nathaniel Branden's and later Leonard Peikoff's efforts in making Objectivism a "consistent philosophy" than what Rand herself thought was most important about it. Simplistically, that there was an objective reality independent of human's perceptions of it; that we can receive information about this reality through our senses and our reason; that emotions are not tools of cognition, but automated responses based on premises held consciously or unconsciously, so "having a feeling" about something, in itself, provided no reliable information. That is actually a good description of P. It is worth repeating that for most of her life Rand took that understanding for granted, not bothering to define it as a philosophy until she was in her fifties, through the initiative of Nathaniel Branden.
My impression so far is Gamma rational. Could be identicals w/ Stratvieskya.
Gamma rational, imo LIE.
There is 0% chance she is LSI... we are aristocratic aka we value the collective over the individual, she didn't. She clearly values Se tho, very good Te. She comes across as Ti ignoring, clearly values Fi even tho her Fi is limited.
Didn't I make fun of her years ago for having a constipated bitch face? lol Constipated bitch face = Fi valuing.
As for capitalism vs socialism- I said this before probably but I think both are pretty shitty and cancerous. Shitty state people are often also the same ones that advocate the wealth-is-health thing too, just riches they want to keep all for themselves while narcissistically creating rules for plebeians to follow that they hypocritically do not follow. "Law for thee not for me."
Asking me which I think is the lesser of two evils- I'd say Capitalism but that's not saying much and is saying I want a slightly less shitty version of a terminally ill cancer. It's definitely not a virtue or something 'good' just the most ideal way to handle society but society itself is a shithole and there's not much virtue about it. Any good artist will tell you what a lose-lose scenario it really is. No, you should not be proud of yourself for being a selfish and typically common whore that just wants money.
Unchecked/unregulated capitalism is beyond stupid as you could make the argument for free trade of things like child pornography because it's technically "following one's own dream". The 'fake veil' of Capitalism is it it's this justly moral person getting their good rewards for doing 'God's honest work' but that's such an ugly and fake bad ENTj businessman veil to actually think that. You can excuse all sorts of things with 'but I made money!'
But the problem with the State otoh seems to be falsely accusing others of things like pedophilia to create scapegoats in society and to justify it's shitty, villainous existence. "Yeah we're pretty crappy but at least we're not a pedo" is something almost anybody can say. How the fuck am I supposed to be impressed or inspired with that, or trust it? Yeah you're right- I gueeesss, (not really tho considering how many genuinely creepy ppl are attracted to State positions lol) but you should strive to be more than just not a pedo. The State is the bare minimum of pretty much anything, and is mediocre in the worst of ways- and makes it so the world's shittiest and crappiest person can have the most power and be dictator.
Okay not to be crude or anything - but I'll put it this way. Capitalism is vomit, and Socialims/state power is shit & feces. If you asked more people would they rather eat shit or vomit I think the most 'normie' or corrective thing to say is they have to made a choice - they'd eat vomit. Like 'duh' right? But plz don't pretend it isn't vomit while having a constipated face.
now looking for a Te ego person to supervise me and tell me that vomit really has more harmful bacteria than shit. I really don't know. but anyway, you get my point.
Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 01-13-2021 at 10:35 PM.
As good as it gets is when you incorporate both in the "healthiest" ways. It's honestly what World of Warcraft used to be, before it got kinda tainted and turned into a shitty wannabe MOBA and Te e-sports thing. Which means capitalism is still the ring leader, but you also make things your customers actually enjoy or like. Not just you. It's just not total one-sided narcissism. There is still a relationship or mutual benefit even if the seller is clearly more the winner and the buyer clearly more the loser/the sucker.
That's really as good as earth can or should be, I take it.
I would say that I'm in the exact opposite quadra from Ayn Rand - every dichotomy/quadra value I have is different from hers:
- I am a merry type in real life, Ayn Rand is very serious.
- I do not value business logic, Ayn Rand clearly does.
- I am not a clear rational type, Ayn Rand seems to fit as rational.
- I respect Fi, she cannot stand it.
- I am a subjectivist, she could not be more objectivist.
- I do not value Ni, she clearly does.
- I am not a clear logical type, she is.
- I do not value strength, force, power, she does.
- I am a positivist, she is a clear negativist.
- I am an abstract thinker, she is tangible and concrete.
- And so on...
Here is what confuses people in typing her in socionics:
- She is clear objectivist, but detests Fi. That is why you get both (e.g.) LIE and SLE typings.
- If she values Fe, she could not be more serious, but she does not seem to value Fi. And that is why again you get both Te and Ti typings.
- She could not be more Gamma in her quadra values, but detests Fi. That is why she is both 'clear Gamma' and also not.
- And so on...
And you can see my problems typing myself as well: Just negate all of those points above about her, and you have my problems typing myself:
- I am (not) clear objectivist, but (I do not) detest Fi. That is why I get both (e.g.) SEI and EII typings.
- If I value Te, I could not be less serious (in real life), but I do seem to value Fi. That is again why I get both Fe and Fi typings.
- I could not be less Gamma in my quadra values, but like Fi. That is why I am 'clear Alpha' and also not.
- And so on...
Last edited by jason_m; 05-25-2021 at 05:27 PM.
Just reading her book "Philosophy, who needs it" now. And I can actually read this and enjoy it. Maybe not conflictor at all...
Strikes me as LIE. Strong Te for sure, the metaphors (which can be rather beautiful despite me personally not agreeing with her worldview) imply Ni too.
Whoops. I had read snippets of it before, but it just came in the mail. I have changed my mind. It contained very little philosophy, certainly not anything even close to science, all just business and politics again. The same disgusting, misanthropic view of ethics and emotion. It just stunk.
Last edited by jason_m; 06-09-2021 at 04:03 PM.
Ayn Rand is a prototypical Alpha NT. Gamma is the opposite of her quadra. People are confusing her for her quasi-identical type (LIE).
[Today 03:36 AM] anotherperson: this forum feels like the edge of the internet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj-UvNXorb4&t
I would type her as IEI now. very much Ni dom, and the typical Se suggestive demanding that people need to be strong. I've been switching back and forth between ILI and IEI, but the latter makes more sense to me.
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