IEI-IEE extinguishment relations (contrary INFp & ENFp)

[redbaron]

Hmm, because EIEs and IEEs are quasi-identicals, what I have to say (with Fi as my 7th function) might not be all that instructive, but I might as well share it.

A friend of mine is SEE and she uses Fi and Fe very differently from me. She 'connects' to people. I 'enjoy' people. She forges a bond with people and she knows what she's doing. Sometimes she mentions telling them something 'special' because that tightens the bond - choosing to share herself in a sense. At all times, she's concerned with the bond between herself and the other person. Her use of Fe (she's very warm, friendly and responsive to the people she's connecting with) is strong, but it's devalued because all the Fe information is just to help her strengthen a static bond.

I am less concerned with the bond between me and other people than how I am reacting to them and how they are reacting to me. That doesn't mean I don't care about other people at all or their relationships to me or that I go around wanting to charm people but not wanting to be friends. I do very much want that. But when I'm talking to them, I'm very much more concerned with their reactions: I want to make them laugh, to make them sympathise, to make them listen. I use my Fi in order to tell me how I might better adjust my Fe. Depending on the relationship I have with a certain person, I will behave differently and my Fe will be more effective.

oooh, good description!

[unefille]

I'm not really sure what I do... I try to "connect" with people, especially with friends and family. However, with people I don't care so much about, I'm more superficial. I guess that's the way everybody would be, so I'm not sure how or even if this connects to Fi and Fe-valuing...? I see myself as reading other people well. I always thought that was about "reading Fi", but in this thread that's described more as "sensing Fe".

Well, as an IEE you would be strong in using Fe to read other people.

I'm not sure how else to explain it, but I'm concerned with connecting with people to - its just that I don't concentrate on it. When my Fi-creative friend meets someone she will say: 'I think they liked/dislike me'. I am more likely to say: 'I think they enjoyed/didn't enjoy my company.'

I don't recognize the bond as being as static as you describe, but again, Fi-creative is often not descriped as static as here.

Fi is a static IM element. That it's a creative function just means you use it differently that if it was your leading function. But Fi, just like Ti, is static. Fe and Te are dynamic.

I feel I'm bonding very much with people when I see them, but when they are not there, the bond is "gone". [...] I analyze my relations to others a lot, thinking about how our connection is. "Did he feel betrayed by the things I said?", "Did she misunderstand me?", "Why did she behave so aggressively, when all I wanted was to be nice?", etc. I thought this was about Fi...?

I actually think that's more of a concern with Fe - you're wondering about their reactions to you and your emotional output. The things you say concern outward behaviours rather than the actual relationship. My Fi-creative friend is much more like to ask 'What does that mean about our relationship? I don't understand her behaviour,' - I am much more likely to think 'How could she misunderstand what I wanted to say like that?'

Edited to add: I think a good way of saying it might be like this: you're in a relationship with someone and one day, they behave oddly. For the Fe type, this leads to questions of 'has our relationship changed' because we use Fe (external information) to determine our 'relationship'. For the Fi type, this is not so significant, because they don't use Fe to access the relationship, they use Fi. BUT if they feel that some thing changes in the Fi-bond, then even if the behaviour is the same, they will be concerned.

Fe: You've been acting differently lately, what's wrong?
Fi: Things don't feel the way they used to, what's wrong?

Also I find it hard to fake a mood. I don't like to be sweet and polite if I feel like shit. It's difficult for me to laugh and play if my emotions are not positive. The more I don't care about someone, the easier to fake it, though. Most of the time I'll avoid people if I feel bad. Again, I thought this was about Fi.

I think the biggest myth is that Fe involves the ability to fake emotions at all. Around close friends, I am entirely emotionally open. What I do do though is I try not to destroy other's people's moods and I try to find appropriate settings to unleash my negative feelings. If I'm feeling bad, I can't laugh or smile either, but I will try very hard to play along with the necessary social cues until I can escape, out of consideration for other people and also, partly because of Ti - that there is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in specific situations. I don't always succeed, but I value it, so I try.

Couldn't you change the words Fi for Fe and Fe for Fi in that description?

I don't think I could at all. Fe is reading other people, their reactions, adjusting my emotional (I use 'emotional' loosely here) output. Fi is our relationship and what it allows me to do with respect to Fe. The valuing is what you focus more on; what you're more concerned with. The strong, but devalued function is a tool you can use if necessary.

[Wittmont]

Fe: You've been acting differently lately, what's wrong?
Fi: Things don't feel the way they used to, what's wrong?

My Fi feeling in a case like this (which is telling me something is wrong) leads me to ask that Fe question. Unconscious Fi demonstrative -> Conscious Fe creative.

[Wittmont]

Thank you for trying...

However, I'm just as confused. I think I could have said both things. I'd like them to like me, and I'd like them to enjoy my company. Maybe I'm both Fi- and Fe-valuing...? :-)

How do other XNFxs feel about this?

Heh, I react like you do Mimosa, I am not sure I differentiate that much between like and enjoy.

[unefille]

Heh, I react like you do Mimosa, I am not sure I differentiate that much between like and enjoy.

I might be splitting hairs, but I sometimes I know people enjoy my company (I see them laughing, smiling etc), but I can't be certain that they liked me, in the sense that they are now in some way bonded to me. And I can enjoy someone's company a lot, without walking away thinking, hmmm, we're definitely good friends now. Maybe that's what I get for having Fi as my ignoring function...>.<

[unefille]

I would ask the Fe-question in this case, but I'm not sure it has to do with a Fe ego? The Fi-question seems a little insane... and very constructed. It isn't really natural to say such a thing, is it?

I made it too simplified but SEE friend says (I note these only because she says things differently from me):

'Is everything Ok? You seem off - it feels like you're pulling away.'
'He's completely shut down on me. I feel like I can't reach him at all.'

Ahaha, I don't even ask questions really. If my own behaviour is anything to go on:

'You look upset. What's up?' or 'Why are you angry?' or 'You weren't talking to me, so I figured you were mad.'

I actually tend to assume peoples emotions from their behaviour without even bothering to ask; if I do, it comes out more like a statement. Could just be me though.

[aka-kitsune]

I made it too simplified but SEE friend says (I note these only because she says things differently from me):

'Is everything Ok? You seem off - it feels like you're pulling away.'
'He's completely shut down on me. I feel like I can't reach him at all.'

These questions don't seem too far off from what I'd actually be thinking... or telling someone else about a third party situation after the fact. Of course, I'd be asking these questions rhetorically, grasping for explanations while visibly upset myself. But I'd never be so controlled with the actual source. I often can't concentrate on anything else when emotions are close to my heart.

Ahaha, I don't even ask questions really. If my own behaviour is anything to go on:

'You look upset. What's up?' or 'Why are you angry?' or 'You weren't talking to me, so I figured you were mad.'

I actually tend to assume peoples emotions from their behaviour without even bothering to ask; if I do, it comes out more like a statement. Could just be me though.

I absolutely do this too. The urgency is apparent. I am especially attuned to the behaviour of those I care very much about. So much so, that I often absorb their emotional state.

[aka-kitsune]

I definitely don't see people as friends very easily. I like most people, but I don't feel close to many. People think I'm very open about my inner life, saying they can read me like an open book. However, they seem to see only the things I let them see, that is an energetic, fun-loving person expressing emotions easily. I'm so much deeper than people think, and I have so many more layers that people, even close to me, are not allowed to access. It's my private inner, and I don't want most people to know about it. It's as if my image is a way to camouflage my real inner self, so that I don't have to share it. Even when I see people enjoy my company, I won't count them as my friends until I feel a deeper connection with them. I don't think people are my friends only because we have a good time together. The content of our relation decides if they are my friends or just entertainment. I thought this is how creative Fi would behave...?

How would you behave if you felt your "private inner layer" were too close to the surface? Or that someone could see your inner self? Would you be uncomfortable? Is it that you do not trust that another would accept you? Or is it more about "gating"...?

[unefille]

This thread has totally mixed up the way I see Fi and Fe.

I definitely don't see people as friends very easily. I like most people, but I don't feel close to many. People think I'm very open about my inner life, saying they can read me like an open book. However, they seem to see only the things I let them see, that is an energetic, fun-loving person expressing emotions easily. I'm so much deeper than people think, and I have so many more layers that people, even close to me, are not allowed to access. It's my private inner, and I don't want most people to know about it. It's as if my image is a way to camouflage my real inner self, so that I don't have to share it. Even when I see people enjoy my company, I won't count them as my friends until I feel a deeper connection with them. I don't think people are my friends only because we have a good time together. The content of our relation decides if they are my friends or just entertainment. I thought this is how creative Fi would behave...?

Firstly, all apologies if I've wrought destruction on your understanding... That never was my intention. I just find talking about Fe and Fi really interesting.

My SEE friend connects with people almost immediately. She is genuine, through and through. By that I mean, the her you meet the first time is still the her you meet the second, third and fourth time. From not knowing her to her becoming one of my best friends - I get the same person that everyone else gets. We're closer, but she's not different. She has the creative-Fi thing going as well. Her bonds are situational and prone to flux, but they are real bonds nevertheless.

It's not as though I try to hide who I am; not as though I deliberately decide to 'fake' myself. But my personality is composed of a multitude of layers. So I can't 'bond' in the moment. And as you get to know me, I change. Every situation is a slightly different person. It's not a choice so much as it's automatic. Those closest to me get a completely different 'me' to those further away and even then they don't always get the same 'me'. Throw in another person, and the dynamic and thus I change again, slightly. Getting to know who I really am and having me show that, rather than perform it, is very rare. But being able to let down all my guards? It's like you said: precious and wonderful. Feeling accepted as me is important, if not the most important thing.

I think an Fi-valuing SLI would feel very deceived around me; as though I was being 'fake', and thus they could never really know how I felt about them.

[implied]

I think an Fi-valuing SLI would feel very deceived around me; as though I was being 'fake', and thus they could never really know how I felt about them.

fwiw, this mirrors my own experience with ENFj men heh.

[unefille]

fwiw, this mirrors my own experience with ENFj men heh.

The only guy I'm certain was SLI that I've known I met through the SEE. After meeting me twice, ten minutes both times, he decided that I was high strung, manipulative and calculating. I never really understood why my SEE friend bothered to pass that onto me; it kind of stung.

One of my closest friends is ILI, but it's a very strange friendship. It's more because we've known each other forever and have similar interests (music, books etc). Simply because of the length of the relationship, my behaviour remains pretty consistent around her. Even then, I think she's sometimes surprised that I care.

[Ali]

*thought*: perhaps someone now could write a short description then of the contrary relationship between an IEE and an IEI .. besides duality, descriptions of manifestations of other intertype relations don't seem to be available, or at least I haven't come across them..this would be a good direction to *practically* help out in dispensing socionics information and teaching/learning i think.. now only if I can get time for this..

[Ali]

need some action to take place

what kind of action are you exactly referring to here?

[Ali]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cone
According to my new theory, certain Contrary relations are actually of Duality caliber. For example, it is theorized that the dual to an INFp is actually ENFp and not ESTp.
I can relate and testify to that fact, Cone. Please, continue with your theory as to why.

I take it he's not active - does anyone know if he ever mentioned this afterwards?

[Ali]

contrary as it would appear through young's system (translated)

5. the intersection

Code of relation - 0111. Is described by structural constant disjunction (relation “OR”). Table of stability conditions:

A In But \/[V]

0 0 0

0 1 1

1 0 1

1 1 1

.

In the system Of [aushry] this relation is called complete opposition, or pay-off. That this is complete opposition in Young's system, it is clear and so - does not coincide in the partners only one sign, and their not entire collection.

By pay-off these relations cannot be on the strength of the fact that they steady with the activity of at least one of the members of dyad, or their both. In “extinguished” state (A = 0, in = 0) this pair is decomposed. In actuality partners activate each other through the disputes, since their ways periodically intersect, forming the pulsatory rhythm of convergence- divergences.

[Ali]

You know, I can relate to mentally being WHOA Attracted to an enfp, but without any physical attraction..

[jewels]

physical attraction isn't type related...I knew an INFp and we were both very attracted to each other. But I've known other INFps that I wan't, so it all depends. If someone is hot, then you won't notice their type at first.

Charisma and posture and appearance and tone of voice and all that is separate from type, and usually what makes us swoon (at first anyway).

[redbaron]

physical attraction isn't type related...I knew an INFp and we were both very attracted to each other. But I've known other INFps that I wan't, so it all depends. If someone is hot, then you won't notice their type at first.

Charisma and posture and appearance and tone of voice and all that is separate from type, and usually what makes us swoon (at first anyway).

well, I actually think that type sometimes does affect posture and tone of voice and things like that. It's hard to explain but it all works towards how the person comes across and determines whether or not they're attractive to YOU or not. I do think that's type related to some degree. I might see a photo of someone and think they're attractive but the moment they open their mouth, no way. Or the way that they walk might seem mamby-pamby or something.

[unefille]

well, I actually think that type sometimes does affect posture and tone of voice and things like that.

I think so too, though I would have to develop that a little more. That certainly seems to be the basis for VI though.

I've been drawn to guy just on the basis of how they sit and carry themselves and how they speak, and, on the other hand, have found guys unattractive on the basis of the way they walk, hold their heads and stand. It's not the determining criterion, but it is something that I register and react to instinctively. And even though some of this may be dismissed as personal preferences, I think there is a socionics basis for it as well: the correlation of what I instinctively react to and how these qualities are associated with a particular type (in this case, 'stereotypical' Beta ST traits).

[Ali]

I think I posted about this relationship awhile ago. One of my best friends from college was my contrary--ENFp. Of course I didn't know this at the time. We got along great before we moved in together after college and that was a disaster because we shared a bedroom (bad idea) and had nowhere to retreat to get away from each other. We had similar interests (art and photography) which is where we met and where our friendship started. She would go on and on very dramatically about every crisis in her life and my role was to listen. I was fine with that and amused by it at first but it got old. We would go on photo-shoot adventures together and then spend hours in the darkroom (ooh, I'm really dating myself here) developing the film and printing photos. Mostly it was great fun. It's hard for me to talk about functions and what exactly was going on, socionically (is that a word?) speaking, but since then we have tried a couple of times to reestablish our friendship via phone and email. We both have kids now and I still really like her but each time we try, after a few long emails back and forth, we get irritated with each other and one of us drops off, just won't return the email. I suppose because I don't share her passion for the specific issues she's struggling with. Or maybe it's because I don't readily take her advice. I listen but ultimately do what I want. She can seem kind of bossy. I can't figure it out though. It's weird because I want it to work but I can only take a little bit of her at a time. Too much and I feel like running for the hills. That is the only experience I've had with my contrary. She indeed did extinguish a lot of my energy when we were living together. I couldn't do it anymore.

-

[Ali]

to sum it up, for me the following do hold true..

This relations often consist of similar lifestyles but differing thought processes. Partners will have similar interests and areas of expertise, and have little trouble communicating with one another.

Still, misunderstanding and conflict arise when partners come to vastly different conclusions about specific ideas or events.

and

Partners feel a strange draw to each other that seems to promise much but never delivers. Partners seem to be interested in the same fields and have similar yearnings, but they describe things in a strange and fascinating, but ultimately unfathomable way. Expectations that go beyond having an interesting conversation are almost never met.

[Ali]

Extinguishment relations, on the other hand, can have some psychological pressure (almost intellectual pressure) which can feel threatening... This may be particular to the IEI-IEE relationship--I'm not sure... It's like both sides are trying to figure out what the other knows, so as to judge/classify the other... One of my good friends is INFp, and even that relationship has a subtle element of under-the-surface competition

e

[Ali]

It is interesting in this regard to consider for comparison the intimate relationship between The Mediator and The Politician. This is the so-called ‘contrast’ relationship: it may result in the partners’ mutual and rapid growing cold to each other, especially from the introvert’s side: this is total mutual sensual and emotional extinguishment. On the other hand, in the ‘contrast’ pairs of intuitive types, e.g. The Seeker/The Critic, The Psychologist/The Lyricist such extinguishment is weaker – their sensory functions reside in their unconsciousness.

....

[misutii]

IME, it's not as dramatic. I always feel attattracted to IEIs mentally, even more so than with other IEEs. However I need some action to take place after interacting with IEIs for a while as it's kind of intense. I've kind of been hurt by most IEIs, and I tend to 'escape' them after a while. I think because I tell them a lot about my thoughts and then expect them to tell about themselves as well, but they don't. So I end up feeling lonely with them, and feel hurt they won't trust me when I trusted them. Maybe they expect me to ask questions, but that's very difficult for me. I feel questions are intrusive, and need people to talk more freely. I will always want to hear about things, but I find it hard to ask. And then the relation ends...

IEIs generally need to feel "needed" before they open (in my experience), so if, for example, something tragic was to happen to you or you were forced into some kind of situation you were incapable of handling on your own, that is when IEIs are at their best. In everyday life we suck.

I remember reading somewhere that many NFs, share the same fatal flaw, that in their relations they seek "absolute intimacy" but because such is an ideal that can't be achieved it usually ends up being detrimental to the NFs, who blame themselves for failing to "connect properly" to whoever they were with

[aka-kitsune]

Could it be that INFps experience a similar thing but more internally? That only in tragic situations all those impulses make one (and not many superposed) pictures of reality? That INFps have a parallel internal chaos where ENFps experience external chaos? I don't know, I might be totally wrong. I actually have a feeling INFps are very calm and not-chaotic. Still they seem to have a lot of internal stuff going on. Just trying to understand the mechanisms of why INFps become more capable in tragic situations?

I personally am very good with accepting and being entirely nonjudgemental of others' psychological situations. I'm very stable and eloquent in explaining at length rational reasoning. I'm not freaked out by negative emotional states and have had friends reveal VERY personal and intimate details about themselves to me. I'm good with all of this.

However, when I personally am emotionally involved, I'm part of the chaos and get easily flooded with negative emotional content. I've not been particularly good in "tragic" situations though, because I feel I absorb the tension to such a degree and become frozen with respect to acting quickly.

IEEs I think are also very good with others' emotional content when it's not about them. When it does concern them directly, they can be defensive and seem to react from feeling trapped (perhaps in some kind of negative judgement).

[Ali]

However, when I personally am emotionally involved, I'm part of the chaos and get easily flooded with negative emotional content. I've not been particularly good in "tragic" situations though, because I feel I absorb the tension to such a degree and become frozen with respect to acting quickly.

ugh.


I am being driven me crazy.
i am hesitant and indecisive - thats who i am - i NEED to know someone's intent and see their drive or desire to act.

Without this, the enfp thinks im ignoring. Hell hath no fury - or so the theatrical indirect expressions seem to say. Am I supposed to stay away? am i supposed to talk about it? Talk about those getting to the enfp and them keeping distance - waiting for.. It is also like hitting me with a hammer on the head for myself. Wtf does an sli do?

last chance tonight

[redbaron]

Talk. Just talk. And if the enfp likes your inner you, you're there. If not, you might feel empty, but at least not like a coward. Express.

And by all means. Don't pretend to be SLI. You wont manage.

Good advice. Be yourself. That's all you can be. If you play games now, what will happen when you get tired of it and your default settings kick in? Best to just be upfront about who you are. And talk.

[jewels]

yeah I'm actually having this exact problem, but from the ENFp perspective. I've put myself on the line a bunch and been really up front and direct (or at least, I thought that was what I was doing), but I get vague, short answers back. ENFps aren't jugemental so I'm not sure why the IEI wouldn't open up...but I get that fear of being judged vibe. It gets frustrating though, as it needs to be more equal...it's no fun to be the one putting yourself out there all the time, if someone isn't willing to take a risk back.

And SLIs are more direct. So be direct, as least for short bursts of time, to let the ENFp know what is up Just say all those things you want to but are afraid to and the ENFp will love it and trust you for being open. Then things can blow over again for a while. Good luck!

[Ali]

thanks guys

[aka-kitsune]

Why does it seem we women work harder and worry about these things more? Ah... that's right, because we actually DO.

At this point, I think the female half of the relation whatever the type always ends up being the caretaker and conservator.

[redbaron]

Why does it seem we women work harder and worry about these things more? Ah... that's right, because we actually DO.

At this point, I think the female half of the relation whatever the type always ends up being the caretaker and conservator.

Well, my ESE husband is actually more like a woman regarding relationships than I am! And I have a male SEI friend who is also very attentive to his relationships--his marriage (to EII) and well as our friendship. Guess it just depends. I do think that over all, women do worry about these things more than men.

[jewels]

hmm...to update. Did not work out with the IEI. So I guess there really is something to this "socionics" stuff jk I guess it's always interesting to see the bad relationships for yourself though.

Still, I think that IEI and IEE could work out well in theory, w/ the right subtypes -- Ne IEI with Fi IEE, and vice versa, plus compatible outlooks, goals, etc.

[Ali]

my my , the ennegram describes this the Best.


Potential Trouble Spots or Issues

The main problem area for Ones and Nines has to do with the opposite ways that they deal with conflicts and rising stress. Ones tend to become more openly frustrated with themselves and others and with the feeling that things are not going as they should. They begin to exude a prickly anger, edginess, and dissatisfaction with everything and everyone. They become obsessed with finding who is at fault, and with legislating how things could be improved. By contrast, when conflicts and stress increase, Nines begin to shut down and withdrawn. They become less effective at correcting problems and less able to speak about their feelings or discomfort. The worse things become, the more Nines attempt to tune them out while maintaining that nothing is the matter. Thus, judgments about the Nine's judgment and competence and willingness to take responsibility taint the One's dealings with Nines, while resistance and denial of problems (with a barely suppressed undertow of anger) infect the Nine.

It is difficult for Nines to step up to the plate and take the level of responsibility that Ones are looking for. The more Ones push Nines to respond in the way they want, the less Nines are willing and able to do so, and they retreat into more widespread passive-aggressive behavior. To Ones, this feels like willful resistance and culpable negligence. The quiet indifference of the Nine only infuriates the One all the more. In short, it is difficult for Ones to respect Nines, just as it is difficult for Nines to feel comfortable with (and able to express themselves to) Ones. Ones eventually become more self-righteous and intolerant while Nines become more uncommunicative and stubbornly unresponsive. Others find it very difficult to be around this pair because of the obvious, painful zingers pointed at the Nine by the One-and because of the aura of barely suppressed rage coming from the Nine. This couple gets frozen in their anger, with no way to melt the impasse

[Sirena]

my my , the ennegram describes this the Best.


Potential Trouble Spots or Issues

The main problem area for Ones and Nines has to do with the opposite ways that they deal with conflicts and rising stress. Ones tend to become more openly frustrated with themselves and others and with the feeling that things are not going as they should. They begin to exude a prickly anger, edginess, and dissatisfaction with everything and everyone. They become obsessed with finding who is at fault, and with legislating how things could be improved. By contrast, when conflicts and stress increase, Nines begin to shut down and withdrawn. They become less effective at correcting problems and less able to speak about their feelings or discomfort. The worse things become, the more Nines attempt to tune them out while maintaining that nothing is the matter. Thus, judgments about the Nine's judgment and competence and willingness to take responsibility taint the One's dealings with Nines, while resistance and denial of problems (with a barely suppressed undertow of anger) infect the Nine.

It is difficult for Nines to step up to the plate and take the level of responsibility that Ones are looking for. The more Ones push Nines to respond in the way they want, the less Nines are willing and able to do so, and they retreat into more widespread passive-aggressive behavior. To Ones, this feels like willful resistance and culpable negligence. The quiet indifference of the Nine only infuriates the One all the more. In short, it is difficult for Ones to respect Nines, just as it is difficult for Nines to feel comfortable with (and able to express themselves to) Ones. Ones eventually become more self-righteous and intolerant while Nines become more uncommunicative and stubbornly unresponsive. Others find it very difficult to be around this pair because of the obvious, painful zingers pointed at the Nine by the One-and because of the aura of barely suppressed rage coming from the Nine. This couple gets frozen in their anger, with no way to melt the impasse

Not sure if I'm missing something, but are you saying that IEIs and IEEs are Nines and Ones in the enneagram? I didn't think that was the case usually, especially with One, for either one.

[redbaron]

this description of the 9 reminds me of how frustrating my SEI friend could be. ugh. I love 9s but they can be so difficult and actually really stubborn at times.

[tiny_dancer]

*sigh* So was my ex. It's exhausting. I hope all my duals aren't 9's, because I can't handle that.

[Ali]

Not sure if I'm missing something, but are you saying that IEIs and IEEs are Nines and Ones in the enneagram? I didn't think that was the case usually, especially with One, for either one.

my bad. that was baaaaaad description. your right iees aren't ones. Although I would maintain ieis being nines..

[Sirena]

my bad. that was baaaaaad description. your right iees aren't ones. Although I would maintain ieis being nines..

I think it's possible for IEI's to be 9's, but not as likely as 4's. Anyway, sorry for getting off track.

[jewels]

hmm, I think the description I described was actually EII, not IEI! So disreguard a lot of what I said. It makes more sense now, and I think the problems were more individual not type related.

[jewels]

So I really think that it comes down to sub-types.

ENFp (Fi) with INFp (Ni) = Good!
ENFp (Fi) with INFp (Fe) = Bad

Fi ENFp and Ni INFp I think does well, because the INFp seems quieter, more serious and less emotionally expressive (though they are still warm of course) -- basically, they seem much closer to an ISTp, without the typical barriers to duality. And the ENFp Fi is more talkative and open sooner (vs. the ENFp Ne).

However, Fi ENFp with Fe INFp is horrible in my opinion. There is so much Fe bouncing around (between the INFp creating that and the ENFp attempting to use fake Fe (as we aren't bad at faking it), so there is no balance. F is flying all over the place.

It makes me wonder if Ne ENFp would then get along beter with Fe INFp??

What do you guys think? Agree? Disagree?