Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 68 of 68

Thread: Wake Up Call

  1. #41
    Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    9,168
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    A lot of things can centre around reasons for not being good at things, negativity, something i've been looking at is ways an understanding of socionics can impove weak points someone sees in themselves, and group interaction.
    A good distinction between the Enneagram and socionics is that while socionics gives a reason for why we do what we do, the Enneagram shows us how we can improve upon ourselves. What I think it lacks is the specific, detailed nature of socionics, but it actually offers what socionics doesn't appear to offer; improvement. In my eyes, socionics basically proclaims that we do y for x reason, and because we like z, we should move towards it, and because we don't like a, we should avoid it. It shows that we're inept in certain ways, and we can't change this, no matter how hard we try (hence the notion of an individual 'concentrating' too much on their PoLR e.g. an LIE who makes a conscious effort to dress exceedingly well, and who goes overboard in some way). The Enneagram shows that we're damaged as opposed to naturally inept, and it is based around the idea of one's being able to repair the damage and transcend any problems we might encounter. And this is why I prefer socionics. I just don't think one can possibly perfect oneself to the level that the Enneagram thinks we can. I think socionics, far from allowing us to be selfish and lazy and not work on our flaws, actually shows reality as it is; that humans are crap and always will be crap at certain things, and, likewise, other humans will also be shit at the things you're good at. That's why there's a theory of intertype relations; people compliment each other.

  2. #42
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,529
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    ...
    You're acting like Joy.

  3. #43
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,685
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    You're acting like Joy.
    Should that worry me?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  4. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,529
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This topic is so Fe.

  5. #45
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    966
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    A good distinction between the Enneagram and socionics is that while socionics gives a reason for why we do what we do, the Enneagram shows us how we can improve upon ourselves. What I think it lacks is the specific, detailed nature of socionics, but it actually offers what socionics doesn't appear to offer; improvement. In my eyes, socionics basically proclaims that we do y for x reason, and because we like z, we should move towards it, and because we don't like a, we should avoid it. It shows that we're inept in certain ways, and we can't change this, no matter how hard we try (hence the notion of an individual 'concentrating' too much on their PoLR e.g. an LIE who makes a conscious effort to dress exceedingly well, and who goes overboard in some way). The Enneagram shows that we're damaged as opposed to naturally inept, and it is based around the idea of one's being able to repair the damage and transcend any problems we might encounter. And this is why I prefer socionics. I just don't think one can possibly perfect oneself to the level that the Enneagram thinks we can. I think socionics, far from allowing us to be selfish and lazy and not work on our flaws, actually shows reality as it is; that humans are crap and always will be crap at certain things, and, likewise, other humans will also be shit at the things you're good at. That's why there's a theory of intertype relations; people compliment each other.
    There's a word for what you're talking about. Complacency. I am not naturally complacent, so I don't want to limit my experience of life and just cede it to someone else.

    Jung's original conception of typology included his (call-it-crazy) notion that people should strive to actually develop the neglected parts of their personality rather than living them out vicariously through others. He viewed the desire that someone could "complete" you (ie: duals) as resisting self-development.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  6. #46
    BLauritson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    979
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    He viewed the desire that someone could "complete" you (ie: duals) as resisting self-development.
    Not really responding to you directly so much as a similar concept I've seen floating about here and there in various places, but something I thought I'd mention while I thought of it. I've heard people before now saying (and whether this is mere speculation or based on their experiences I honestly don't know) that if you were with your dual constantly, you'd never develop your weak areas. While I can see where they're coming from on this (I wish I had specific examples of people saying this, but it was too long ago and I'm too lazy to do a search for something so trivial), I think whether that would happen in reality is all down to the individual. I'm not denying that having someone cover your weak areas could make one complacent, but I think that it isn't necessarily detrimental to self-development since, if an individual is so inclined, they could actually learn from their dual and improve themselves in that way. Basically what I'm trying to say is that, while I understand where people are coming from in saying that duality can be detrimental to self-development, it doesn't mean it will be. I think it's down to the individual rather than the people around them. Gah I dunno, I just wanted to try and inject a differing view into the sea of self-development concepts. Feel free to ignore it.
    ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
    5w4 so/sx

    "IP temperament! Because today's concerns are tomorrow's indifferences!"

    Lord Fnorgle's Domain - A slowly growing collection of music, poetry and literature.
    Stickam music performances

  7. #47
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,768
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "No IEE would ever major in mathematics."

    I agree with you there, Herzy (on how that's not true). My mother, who is probably IEE, not only majored in it, she was partway into a PhD for it and taught basic math at the college level. She also has a math-related side hobby; watching her at it blows my mind.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  8. #48
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,615
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well done, Herzy. Much of this tends to be left unsaid for much of the time, with deleterious results on many newcomers which may regard nonsense as good information.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  9. #49
    inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,035
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think most people are very vulnerable to regarding nonsense as good information when they come here. In other words, I think most people are pretty effective at filtering nonsense from non-nonsense.

  10. #50
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,615
    Mentioned
    235 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't think most people are very vulnerable to regarding nonsense as good information when they come here. In other words, I think most people are pretty effective at filtering nonsense from non-nonsense.
    Personally as a complete newbie I've had a lot of trouble in certain fields to understand which sources were reliable and which weren't. People may be good at detecting bullshit said with the intention of lying, but genuine nonsense is hard to distinguish from accurate information when you have next to zero experience.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  11. #51

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,577
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Personally as a complete newbie I've had a lot of trouble in certain fields to understand which sources were reliable and which weren't. People may be good at detecting bullshit said with the intention of lying, but genuine nonsense is hard to distinguish from accurate information when you have next to zero experience.
    yeah; if you have no experience or prior knowledge in a subject you could easily get confused.

  12. #52
    Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    9,168
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    This topic is so Fe.
    Fi has spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Jung's original conception of typology included his (call-it-crazy) notion that people should strive to actually develop the neglected parts of their personality rather than living them out vicariously through others. He viewed the desire that someone could "complete" you (ie: duals) as resisting self-development.
    So, contrary to what many here believe (and to what Salawa points out constantly), Myers-Briggs does offer something; a chance to develop one's functions by pinpointing what one is inefficient in.

  13. #53
    inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,035
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Personally as a complete newbie I've had a lot of trouble in certain fields to understand which sources were reliable and which weren't. People may be good at detecting bullshit said with the intention of lying, but genuine nonsense is hard to distinguish from accurate information when you have next to zero experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    yeah; if you have no experience or prior knowledge in a subject you could easily get confused.
    I don't know why this doesn't resonate with me. Oh well.

  14. #54
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    998 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Herzy

    Your words are what my thoughts would look like all organized. I love this. Seems like perfect timing for a bump. <3

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  15. #55
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    286 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    @Herzy

    Your words are what my thoughts would look like all organized. I love this. Seems like perfect timing for a bump. <3
    Hell yes it needs a bump.

  16. #56
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    286 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Dee is a good example for this thread but there are more than just him who will go into a thread and pretty much make their case about something and not even listen to others views or opinions. This makes it almost seem like they have to be correct (to a Noob in socionics or someone similar) in what they are saying and that nobody will ever change whatever views those are. Not constructively that is... It pretty much takes 10 people saying: "you are totally wrong" for some people to even think that what they're saying may actually not be correct. Even then, they'll blame it on the "stupid masses" that make up the rest of this forum outside of their little bubble. This is just sad really.
    And what cracka says here too. History repeats itself, just with different people filling the roles it seems.

  17. #57
    wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    TIM
    ZGM
    Posts
    1,581
    Mentioned
    132 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    And what cracka says here too. History repeats itself, just with different people filling the roles it seems.
    hah true though. my friend made a funny comparison between social environments and professional wrestling. you see, the new crew may replace the old crew, but members of the new crew merely fill in the "tropes" that members of the old crew left open. same personas, different faces.

  18. #58

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is such gold. Should be pinned/stickied.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •