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Thread: Possible Enneagram types of forum members

  1. #841
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    No. From what I've seen you can't stay (extrovertedly) angry at people (like, you'll call someone out here but then apologize and be like "i like you") which is 9
    Hahah yeah but only if I like them or something about them makes me want to like them. I have worked through anger issues it's true and I feel I have better things to do than directing anger at people I don't even know but I can't take my interactions online too serious. Anger online is waste of energy and time. I look at my home life too. Quite a few family members think 458 sx/sp is a better description so I have to take that into account.

    @Owl posting this today was very perceptive and synchronicity since I was just discussing with someone on the forum how my alter ego (persona) can resemble an ILI-Ni descriptions but I don't know if that is due to 4 introjection, taking parts of people who died and making them a part of myself . I am not going to focus on it too much right now as I have more pressing things going on but I could take another look at some point. I have a tendency to idealize the dead or gone. Part of the reason I only really crushed on dead people as a teen since they were unavailable or idealized the bf who died when I was 13 even though he really did something pretty bad to me before he was killed. When he was gone I made him out to be something more than he ever was to me. So yeah it is good to reevaluate my perception of self.

    "The original ideal state of deep and complete connection to all things goes into the background in a world that you perceive abandons you, leaving something important missing. You come to believe that you can regain the lost ideal love or perfect state by finding the love or situation that is unique, special and fulfilling. Concurrently, you develop envy and longing over what you idealize but is unavailable. Your attention naturally goes to what is missing and deemed important. Introjection glues the structure together by helping you take inside the idealized other to lessen the pain of loss. Your ultimate concern or fear is being deficient and abandoned. As compensation you sometimes control and dominate by becoming disappointed in others, self-absorbed, unsatisfied with what is, moody, demanding to feel understood as special and unique; and repeatedly feeling unfulfilled.

    What stresses you and makes you most personally reactive: People letting you down; disappointing you or visa versa; being left because of your deficiency; not being recognized or feeling understood as special and unique; and/or repeatedly feeling unfulfilled.
    These reactions block you from feeling loved, regardless of deficiencies, and ultimately your experience of gratitude and equanimity for what is present.


    Your Strengths: Sensitivity, empathy (especially with suffering), a creative disposition, attunement to feelings, intensity, idealism, appreciative of the unique and extraordinary, and being passionate and idealistic.
    The Central Theme for Your Healing and Development:
    Accept that wholeness and realness exist now in the present moment
    Focus on what is present and “what is,” rather than what is missing
    Resist domination by your strong and sometimes fluctuating feelings while acknowledging their authenticity
    Sustain a steady course of action even in the presence of intense feelings
    Fill in the middle by your appreciating the ordinary
    Separate your self-esteem from being special or extraordinary
    Healing and development for you ironically involves your turning away from the outward search for the ultimate ideal, deep heart connection, and complete fulfillment where nothing of substance is missing which only serve to perpetuate your dilemma. All the well-intentioned searching in the wrong place doesn’t give the desired result. It just creates more intense feelings of deficiency and longing. You are blind to having abandoned your own heart and need to love yourself as you are. So the primary task for Romantics is to realize that wholeness and completeness come with your acceptance and appreciation of what is here now in the present moment, from the inside out, not from the outside in. Disappointments and deficiencies are part of the fabric of life, not of deficiency of being."



    458 – The Scholar Archetype

    The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.

    *Darkest tritype-458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)

    Also if you are still considering 548 (or 845): she said this is the the most intense type, particularly if sexual. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom. She said when 8 is in charge there is a bit more compassion, and with an integrated 5 or 4 in charge you get a gifted spiritual teacher (Russ Hudson for example)
    An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.

    874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

    ‎854 and 862 share the self-possessed confidence with solution mastery. The 854 is the artsy and intellectual 8 -- with a secret self-consciousness. The 862 is the champion rescuer, protector with a great need to help-- more duty.

    the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.

    ‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.

    (4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
    4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
    4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8

    Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.

    5-8-4: Most Intense Five. Needs creativity. Can be moody and melancholy.

    458 is the most tough-minded and opinionated 4.

    458 - Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions.

    845: Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. Most withdrawn 8, specially if introverted, 9 wing and/or sp.

    The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.

    five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper, sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power; attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and insistent, may put others ill at ease.

    eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
    personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
    and circumstances.

    The 458 is more openly emotional and expressive. The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.

    A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.

    Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.

    The 4-5-8 is the most direct and blunt of all the tritypes, with the exception of perhaps 3-5-8

    874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

    seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.

    the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.

    I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.

    out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.

    The 485 is an intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and find the hidden meaning in all things.

    The 845 is more introverted intuition with the attention going inward. It can be darker and is more cynical.

    (EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):

    [Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.

    Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.

    What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
    While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.

    first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
    I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.

    My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
    However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
    5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.

    We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
    5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.

    I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.

    I believe Nietzsche and Gurdjieff were of this tritype, though G may have had 7 instead of 5, but Katherine Fauvre very much agreed with me when I said there was something “Hermetic” about this tri-type. There is a kind of de-construction of present systems and a reconstruction into something that subverts previously-held notions. I like to think of myself as an “ontological terrorist”. Nietzsche is a beautiful illustration of what I see as the gift of this tritype – of staring past the fragility in the conceptions humans, as living and rational beings, hope to cling to and look into something “under”, to poke around in [blocked due to guideline #4 violation], and reveal the beauty within it. Hades operates under a kind of 854 archetypal pattern. There’s the destructive power and energy to produce an impact of 8, along with the “ground-up” construction and innovation of 5 with the creativity and will to rebirth of 4. Of course, that’s only there in the best examples of this tritype, a call the rest of us can only hope to live up to.

    There are of course coherent factors - otherwise there wouldn't be a category. However, I still feel that the concept of change over time is very important to 548. I guess this is what I mean by different selves - the many different selves over one's life (which is also true of everyone). That is, think of Heraclitus's saw - you cannot step into the same river twice. Not just because the river has changed, but because you are - that minute to minute one's self is mutating, adapting, contradicting itself. This does not necessarily have to defeat the concept of a core coherent self, but certainly challenges it.

    I disagree with your point that 548s are not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. While these three values are pretty hard to attain, and difficult to define, they are pretty important to me, at least some of the time - and especially in any discrete intellectual task I want to complete.

    I think our tritype is especially gifted with calling it’s fundamental beliefs into constant question. You’ve got 4’s emphasis on self-creation and thus change, the 5’s emphasis on clear perception, innovation, curiosity, and the 8 that confronts and challenges. There is always a readiness to undermine ourselves with an aim at change, but shows us what crap each construct we hold at every stage of growth really is and there is always the correct suspicion that whatever construct we hold in the present is simply a construction.]

    5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts.
    typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4
    similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8
    flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense

    5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary.
    typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
    similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4
    flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive


    @Manic I know what you think I am but you don't see me. You see what you want to see and that is why you type so many 9. Perhaps consider 6 for yourself? I do not have a "satanic thing' so again you are misinterpreting everything about me which I think some other do interpret correctly.


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    The empath thing and symbolism is also 9.. I asked my friend about it because I had heard Katherine Fauvre saying it (that Jung was probably 9 because his symbolism thing) and he wrote this

    one thing is that a symbol is an idealized (positive-ized) replacement for a complex conflicted real something
    also 9 is tapping into the universal, and the universe is ultimately holographic, which means that within each thing thereis the blueprint for all things, and these blueprints are, in effect, symbols ... symbols of Everything

    one aspect of the 'idealized replacement' is that it takes you out of the chaos of the thing, and into an abstract space where you can look at thing slowly and because they're symbols, they might have a connection into some kind of eternally aboding something, which plugs into 9's sense of life/existence as a very very long timeline and that their existence stretches out across that wide field.
    There's also that youve said that you dont have shame like other 4s which just makes no sense.


    Anyways what Im expecting from this is you not listening again and you will stay with the type you type now or maybe even type with 8 fix. But maybe you will surprise me. And yes I am a little annoyed because I hate the misconceptions about enneagram and the romanticisation of type 4 among other things.

  3. #843
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    The empath thing and symbolism is also 9.. I asked my friend about it because I had heard Katherine Fauvre saying it (that Jung was probably 9 because his symbolism thing) and he wrote this

    There's also that youve said that you dont have shame like other 4s which just makes no sense.
    Of course I have had shameful feelings but I am not going into my childhood or teens that deep on this forum. I don't think it serves in purpose. Sx 4 is more shameless than shameful. Unless I talked to your friend myself there is no way to know what he would think since he doesn't know me. Shame is social 4 more than anything. I am going to move these to enneagram so we can continue there if you want.

    What you are failing to see is that you are the one who continuously does not listen to anyone. Does this make you a 9>8? Think about that.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Of course I have had shameful feelings but I am not going into my childhood or teens that deep on this forum. I don't think it serves in purpose. Sx 4 is more shameless than shameful. Unless I talked to your friend myself there is no way to know what he would think since he doesn't know me. Shame is social 4 more than anything. I am going to move these to enneagram so we can continue there if you want.
    The thing is that 4 identify with their flaws and are more than willing to talk about it. And no I dont think sx 4 is shameless at all. If a 4 is shameless then it takes away the whole basis of the type. The shame stems from the imagination that you are lacking something that makes you a normal human, and associating with it in a negative way. soc 4 is more shameful but soc shame is different from 4 shame. And this way of thinking that you are an alien doesn't just go away with age just like the other type neurosises doesnt just "go away", okay. Ive seen this alot, people trying to justify their typing by saying they are "past that" which is just impossible unless youve worked at it and acknowledged it for decades, and even then it wont be magically gone. I think you have 4 fix second so you will have relatively large 4 influence, btw. But i dont see it as your core for these reasons.
    Ftr, I see sp/sx 4 as the least shameless 4 if I had to pick one. Because it's not neurotic about sx, and sx is partly about how people of your interest percieve you, and social last.. so they care the least out of the stackings.

    What I quoted was a quote about type 9 and symbolism and not about you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    The thing is that 4 identify with their flaws and are more than willing to talk about it. And no I dont think sx 4 is shameless at all. If a 4 is shameless then it takes away the whole basis of the type. The shame stems from the imagination that you are lacking something that makes you a normal human, and associating with it in a negative way. soc 4 is more shameful but soc shame is different from 4 shame. And this way of thinking that you are an alien doesn't just go away with age just like the other type neurosises doesnt just "go away", okay. Ive seen this alot, people trying to justify their typing by saying they are "past that" which is just impossible unless youve worked at it and acknowledged it for decades, and even then it wont be magically gone. I think you have 4 fix second so you will have relatively large 4 influence, btw. But i dont see it as your core for these reasons.
    Ftr, I see sp/sx 4 as the least shameless 4 if I had to pick one. Because it's not neurotic about sx, and sx is partly about how people of your interest percieve you, and social last.. so they care the least out of the stackings.

    What I quoted was a quote about type 9 and symbolism and not about you.
    Edit: I have been in therapy since I was a preteen so please don't pretend you know anything about the hard work I have put into getting where I am today. It is fucking insulting.

    You just need to learn more about enneagram as a whole and not just from a site created by someone whose whole theory is symbolic and self types 9, of course he think symbolism is 9 . If we are nitpicking I could easily type you 268 sx/so. I don't but I could and probably convince others of it too with little effort.

    I don't think we are going to get anywhere because you don't listen, you just want to impose your perception on others and yeah I am irritated too now because I thought you understood me better. You were typing me 4w3 until I didn't agree with your interpretation of my avatar being 4w3 sx which you guys argued about for an hour on discord. I don't see any evidence for you having ease with sp at all but I assume you know yourself better. You can argue all you want for your perception but it does not make it any more true. 4s on the forum do see me and you don't so that is telling. You want to be the only 4 now? 947 is laughable for me.


    "sx/so 268: I will describe this individual as obsessively possessive and domineering, taking on parental roles in most, if not all situations, and the sx/soc simply complete the smother. Most people will find him/her “way too much”, like get the hell off me can’t you and stop telling me what to do.
    For them power is dead important, though it will be more obvious to the observer than to the person him/herself. Both 2 and 6 leads to some issues with denial. 2 main especially will “play innocent” while their power motive is seen by all those who suffered under his/her dominion.
    Also all three fixes have a somewhat calculating quality to me. They are definitely not without ulterior motives.
    I don’t know at all how any specific three types—2/6/8 in this case— act synergistically. But I do know that each of these at average to lower levels is very controlling in interpersonal relationships, very domineering (including the 6 due to the sx/so), highly reactive, and also explosive when they feel they aren’t getting back what they ‘deserve’. So my assumption was the obvious: that the synergy would lead to someone controlling to the point of suffocation and high drama."


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    I dont listen? Okay.
    Why is 947 laughable? Everyone here can agree on that you like symbolism and fantasy. Kate Bush is 947 and people have compared her to you. She's sx/sp though so she don't have that satanic edge you have.

    "You just need to learn more about enneagram as a whole and not just from a site created by someone whose whole theory is symbolic and self types 9, of course he think symbolism is 9 "

    You say this but then go and pick some random sx/so 268 description that doesnt even fit me in the slightest btw. Im not parental among other things. This is just you attempting at getting a revenge on me because you see me typing you as 9 offensive for some reason.
    Secondly, the person who has that website has TONS of experience int he enneagram and ton of people give him credit due to his insights. And it wasnt him that said symbolism was 9, it was Katherine Fauvre I heard it from, but ton of other people also know this fact.


    "
    You want to be the only 4 now? 947 is laughable for me."

    I see this as a projection of you romanticizing type 4 which is stupid.


    If youre going to keep ignoring the core arguments here and just nag at me instead then theres no use arguing and im out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    @Owl why do you think Aylen is 8 fixed..?
    She seems to be an assertive person, someone who knows how to voice their opinion and can be a good trouble shooter. She doesn't seem to be avoidant, or passive. Nobody likes a conflict, but a 9 fix would do anything in their power to avoid it, she seems like she wouldn't mind arguing in a gentle and empathetic way. She doesn't seem submisive or scared of resulation of her troubles, quite the opposite to me she seems like someone who is well able to take care of things that has gone wrong and make them right again. She seems like someone who likes to be in a certain postion of control and power over her enviroment as well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    She seems to be an assertive person, someone who knows how to voice their opinion and can be a good trouble shooter. She doesn't seem to be avoidant, or passive. Nobody likes a conflict, but a 9 fix would do anything in their power to avoid it, she seems like she wouldn't mind arguing in a gentle and empathetic way. She doesn't seem submisive or scared of resulation of her troubles, quite the opposite to me she seems like someone who is well able to take care of things that has gone wrong and make them right again. She seems like someone who likes to be in a certain postion of control and power over her enviroment as well.
    You see me.

    Edit: These are the things my family pointed out as well. My EII sister is a core 9 and I envied her for it. She has always been so accepting of me and all my flaws.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    I dont listen? Okay.
    Why is 947 laughable? Everyone here can agree on that you like symbolism and fantasy. Kate Bush is 947 and people have compared her to you. She's sx/sp though so she don't have that satanic edge you have.

    "You just need to learn more about enneagram as a whole and not just from a site created by someone whose whole theory is symbolic and self types 9, of course he think symbolism is 9 "

    You say this but then go and pick some random sx/so 268 description that doesnt even fit me in the slightest btw. Im not parental among other things. This is just you attempting at getting a revenge on me because you see me typing you as 9 offensive for some reason.
    Secondly, the person who has that website has TONS of experience int he enneagram and ton of people give him credit due to his insights. And it wasnt him that said symbolism was 9, it was Katherine Fauvre I heard it from, but ton of other people also know this fact.


    "
    You want to be the only 4 now? 947 is laughable for me."

    I see this as a projection of you romanticizing type 4 which is stupid.


    If youre going to keep ignoring the core arguments here and just nag at me instead then theres no use arguing and im out.
    I think it is quite the opposite. You romanticize the 4 which is why you can't see it clearly. You think you have shame so deep and suffer so much no one can relate too. It is myopic if you think 4s have to spill everything and are not selective on what they share and with who. 4s control image not vomit it all over everyone in the way you seem to think. It would be shameful to me to whine over my shame in public. Anyway, I did not want to be considered a 4 at all because I didn't want to see myself as a whiny, pitiful thing but over time I saw that 4 was much more than that. I was repelled by the whole idea and it took me awhile to accept. Please just stop retyping me since you obviously do not understand and never will.

    FTR, I know who the 4s are on this forum even if I don't post them. I am sure they know it too even if some haven't accepted fully. Some you have typed 9.

    Reread what I said, I didn't say you were 268 sx/so but I could make a case for it. I don't type you that but that is the type of thing you are doing. You are missing the whole, the way I see it, but doesn't matter.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    There was a time when I could not separate my feelings/emotions from other people. Like I didn't know that some of the stuff I was feeling was being imposed on me by others but only 'cause I allowed it to penetrate. This was very hard for me to handle as a child. I had a pretty good mentor who taught me how to differentiate (by questioning) my emotions from those of other people. I walk into a store and I am bombarded by the energy of other people. Like I can look at them and if they are angry I start to feel anger or aggressiveness build inside me. If they are being silly and playful I can emotionally feel it even though I am not part of it. It is like rapid emotional mood swings if I don't put this invisible shield around myself. It is part of the reason I can be such a recluse. I even seclude myself from others in my house just so their moods don't affect me. It is not easy keeping up a shield and unless I actively go in and change their moods, which I do sometimes when I had enough, I will feel overwhelmed. I will make a silly joke in the middle of an argument just to ease the tension that is building up in me. Seems to work because everyone starts laughing and then it is like they were never even feeling *fill in the blank* at all.
    @Aylen I found this old quote of yours and this is EXACTLY what my 9 friend would say. He is always aware of peoples emotions, and really unhealthy 9s cant separate their feelings from other people (i think).
    He said he can't stop the empathy - it comes naturally, but he avoids dealing with other people (following it up with compassion), like he doesnt actually take action toward caring about them and stuff, because he doesn't want to deal with it. I called him psychopathic for that reason lol because he was feeling someone elses negative emotion but actively choosing not to give a shit. But I think I'm equally psychopathic because I have no empathy (or maybe it is compassion?) unless I've been in the situation and can relate to the person. I have a really hard time grasping the concept of empathy.. But I find it beautiful.

    Edit: After thinking about it some more I understand him not wanting to care because if he feels everyones emotional state then he would have to care about everyone, and take action. And that would be exhausting of course. Probably impossible.
    Last edited by maniac; 10-11-2017 at 04:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    @Aylen I found this old quote of yours and this is EXACTLY what my 9 friend would say. He is always aware of peoples emotions, and really unhealthy 9s cant separate their feelings from other people (i think).
    He said he can't stop the empathy - it comes naturally, but he avoids dealing with other people (following it up with compassion), like he doesnt actually take action toward caring about them and stuff, because he doesn't want to deal with it. I called him psychopathic for that reason lol because he was feeling someone elses negative emotion but actively choosing not to give a shit. But I think I'm equally psychopathic because I have no empathy (or maybe it is compassion?) unless I've been in the situation and can relate to the person. I have a really hard time grasping the concept of empathy.. But I find it beautiful.

    Edit: After thinking about it some more I understand him not wanting to care because if he feels everyones emotional state then he would have to care about everyone, and take action. And that would be exhausting of course. Probably impossible.
    This belongs in enneagram so I will move it.

    Cool, I can stop it though. I was still buying into a belief system at that time that I no longer buy into. I think if you are trying to prove my 9 ness you can stop. 4 is a better fit by far but I have not written off 9 in tritype even though as many people would say 8 is in in my tritype. I find it hard to believe that a core 9 would be consistently mistaken for an 8 fix even with a 8wing. I can affect people just as much as they affect me if not more. I think this is a natural process that most people are not even aware they go through all the time. As a kid I didn't know what was going on. Everyone is being affected by others all the time, that is why people label certain things "Fe" but most people don't take the time to understand they are taking other people's problems on.

    If you have no empathy you are probably not a core 4...period.

    Enneagram Type Four: The Individualist or Romantic

    Enneagram is a model of human psychology that describes nine fundamental personality types. Here comes the basic characteristics of the “Four”.
    Dominant Traits:

    • Creative
    • Expressive
    • Sensitive
    • Emotional
    • Introspective
    • Artistic
    • Authentic

    Focus of Attention: In Search of What is Missing… the Ideal… the Unattainable.
    Basic Fear: To Have No Identity
    Basic Desire: To Be Unique, Different
    Strengths:

    • Expressive
    • Sensitive to Feelings
    • Self-Aware
    • Appreciative of Beauty
    • Empathetic
    • Compassionate

    Challenges:

    • Moody
    • Temperamental
    • Prone to Melancholy
    • Self-Absorbed
    • Self-Indulgent
    • Intense
    • Unsatisfied with What Is

    General Behavior of an Individualist

    A Four believes that they are unique, and different from the norm. Their whole identity is attached to this belief. They perceive this difference as a gift, because Fours hate to think that they’re ordinary and common. But at the same time, their feelings of uniqueness is a curse which keeps them from enjoying the simpler things in life, the way other people do.
    Fours tend to feel superior from everyone else, since they think they’re special. However, deep inside, they feel that something’s missing, and they fear that it might be caused by a flaw or defect in their own selves. Fours, as you can tell, are emotionally complex. A deep feeling of abandonment makes them feel that they will never be happy or fulfilled.
    They long for deep connections in their relationships, to be understood and appreciated for who they truly are. For people to see and appreciate their uniqueness. It is easy for them to feel misjudged and misunderstood.
    Fours are moody and temperamental. They are often wrapped in their thoughts, analyzing their feelings. They are very self-aware, and in tune with their emotions. This trait extends to others. Empathy and compassion are strengths of this personality type.
    They are dreamers who dream of what is lost or what is unattainable. Incurable romantics, they have a tendency to fixate on what is missing, instead of what is. They fall into dark moods and despair. In a world that can be harsh and cruel, Fours tend to withdraw to their fantasy world. Life often disappoints. They expect too much of everything, and spend a lot of time longing for what they don’t have and what is not present in the moment. Fours love drama, and they will try and turn most situations into one.
    They bring their internal fantasies to this life through their creativity. They are often artists, or immersed in the artistic world where their visions can be freely expressed. They love and appreciate beauty, and any form of self-expression. They are loners and melancholic by nature. Even at their best, they are self-absorbed introverts.
    On the darker side, when under stress, Fours will fall into depression, and self-hate. It is not in their nature to fight life’s challenges. Instead, they will ponder on how they wish things were different, and wait for someone to save them from their own misery.
    Fours feel that in order to feel loved and complete, they need to find the ideal love and the perfect circumstance.
    How to Get Along with a Four


    • Be generous with your compliments. Fours need appreciation.
    • Respect their uniqueness, and their desire to be more than ordinary. Don’t say they’re weird.
    • Be upfront when interacting with them. Be real. Speak of how you feel.
    • Don’t take a Four’s words too literally, especially when they’re upset.
    • Don’t tell them they’re being overly sensitive or overreacting.
    • When they speak about ideals and dreams, empathize and try to understand even if you don’t agree. Then bring them back to the present, and be positive.
    • When they’re being melancholy, gently help them lighten up. Don’t give them a full pep talk in your desire to lift their mood.
    • Help them love themselves. Be supportive and loving.
    • Join them in activities that promote self-expression.

    How to Overcome the Negative Effects of Being a Four


    • Live in the moment. Take time to appreciate what’s in your life right here, right now.
    • We are all unique and different. You don’t have to set yourself apart to be special. Our differences make each of us special, as we are.
    • Don’t expect too much of people. Accept them too for their inadequacies. We are all just trying to do our best.
    • Show your appreciation for the things people do for you. If they sense your endless dissatisfaction, they may soon feel that nothing they do will ever make you happy and stop trying.
    • When you start feeling depressed, seek the company of positive people who can support you and make you see the beauty in things.
    • Get out of your own bubble every once in a while. See and experience the world. Learn about other cultures, and visit new places. Expand your view of the world and of life.
    • To grow, you must seek the balance between sadness and your capacity for happiness and satisfaction.
    • Realize that nothing is perfect, but you can still find happiness and satisfaction in the imperfections.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Empathy is not needed in the core structure of a 4 because it NEEDS to be separate from the rest of the world (in fact 4s I have talked to share the same idea, that they are emotionally "guarded" and only have compassion when its something they can relate to, but it's needed in 9. I think the empath thing for 4 stems from alot of 9s mistyping as 4s and so spreading misinformation. 4s are generally cold-hearted and negative, and we are aware of that and don't try to make it positive but just see it as who we are. I dont see anything "bad" in it and I dont get upset if someone were to tell me Im a bad person or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    Empathy is not needed in the core structure of a 4 because it NEEDS to be separate from the rest of the world, but it's needed in 9. Keep ignoring it all you want.
    I don't think you are a core 4 anymore either because you are not listening.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Funny how that works both ways.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Not listening to what?
    I do not care what other peoples opinions are of someones type If Im feeling strongly and even having evidence of someone being another type. People type Adam Strange here 8 but I think he is a 9, and I know you do too. Plus, it's different online. Some 9s are innocent and conflict-avoidant online and some are negative and takes out their anger.
    So you lied about being an empath?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    Not listening to what?
    To anything or anyone. You don't notice people complaining about it it? If you really are a sx/sp social last 4 why are you so invested in (mis)(re) typing so many people that have nothing to do with you? Then getting so stubborn you can't see the truth right in front of you. I think there is something else going on here so if you want to talk about then message me. Otherwise this is starting to come off as passive agressive anger based on something totally unrelated to enneagram.

    You do not know enough about enneagram, people (by your own admission) or me to be taking yourself so serious, the descriptions so literally in some areas and rewriting them to suit you in other areas. I mean if you want to create your own system do it. Not to dismiss you completely but I have spent enough time on introspection, therapy and living life to know who I am. Like I said therapy since preteens and guess what, it wasn't for 9 traits. I probably have more 8 traits than you do irl. Everyone can be an 8 online. Let me know how 8 fixed your are in a few years. Once you had to live life on your own. Of course I have compassion for some people because that is how humans are built. I especially have compassion for "my people" but I can lose it pretty fast with no qualms if I see they don't deserve it.

    Edit: Where did I lie about have empathy?

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    To anything or anyone. You don't notice people complaining about it it? If you really are a sx/sp social last 4 why are you so invested in (mis)(re) typing so many people that have nothing to do with you? Then getting so stubborn you can't see the truth right in front of you. I think there is something else going on here so if you want to talk about then message me. Otherwise this is starting to come off as passive agressive anger based on something totally unrelated to enneagram.

    You do not know enough about enneagram, people (by your own admission) or me to be taking yourself so serious, the descriptions so literally in some areas and rewriting them to suit you in other areas. I mean if you want to create your own system do it. Not to dismiss you completely but I have spent enough time on introspection, therapy and living life to know who I am. Like I said therapy since preteens and guess what, it wasn't for 9 traits. I probably have more 8 traits than you do irl. Everyone can be an 8 online. Let me know how 8 fixed your are in a few years. Once you had to live life on your own. Of course I have compassion for some people because that is how humans are built. I especially have compassion for "my people" but I can lose it pretty fast with no qualms if I see they don't deserve it.

    Edit: Where did I lie about have empathy?
    I dont know how any of this is passive-aggressive, i'm just trying to make you realise your type which im being very straight-forward about, because enneagram is interesting to me and I like to discuss it.

    Everyone can be an 8 online
    Well this makes for an argument against you being 8 fixed

    Let me know how 8 fixed your are in a few years. Once you had to live life on your own.
    I dont know if this is an insult or you telling me you are more 8 because you have lived longer and been through more..? People do stop caring about certain things as they grow older so they can get tougher or softer or whatever but type structures are still there.

    Edit: Where did I lie about have empathy?
    You implied you didnt really mean that thing you had wrote about being an empath and feeling others emotions, or maybe I misunderstood it.

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    Agreed that they don't really sync their emotionality/sympathy as in empathy with others - too self-absorbed and trying to stand out from these dull people who don't get them. 9 does qualify way more. But!

    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    4s are generally cold-hearted and negative
    4s really soak things up, with high-contrast ups and downs: positive and negative. Never would I call a 4 cold-hearted - maybe a 5, 3, or a 1. If the 4 is self-pres first, you could make an argument. But SX 4... Jesus Christ, what a storm. (Look at @Shaebette who is absolutely colorful in character!) And 4 SO as the second in row. It's the heart center gone masochistic and dramatic. Richard Rohr puts it better than I do:



    "conflicted heart... feel all these emotions... creative way to try to distill them and get in touch with them"

    "complex, subtle, and emotional life"

    "breathy... dark... moody... so much soul... the tragic gives them energy... suffering artist... they love it!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    I dont know how any of this is passive-aggressive, i'm just trying to make you realise your type which im being very straight-forward about, because enneagram is interesting to me and I like to discuss it.

    You implied you didnt really mean that thing you had wrote about being an empath and feeling others emotions
    Why don't you start by typing yourself correctly first. I might take it more serious once you do. Someone without any empathy, as you claim to be, does not understand or type people correctly. You are trying to think through it. This is not intuition you are using but once you realize that you may tap into your intuition. It is a bunch of beliefs you have accepted based on the symbolic interpretations of a friend.

    em·pa·thy
    ˈempəTHē/
    noun

    • the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Agreed that they don't really sync their emotionality/sympathy as in empathy with others - too self-absorbed and trying to stand out from these dull people who don't get them. 9 does qualify way more. But!



    4s really soak things up, with high-contrast ups and downs: positive and negative. Never would I call a 4 cold-hearted - maybe a 5, 3, or a 1. If the 4 is self-pres first, you could make an argument. But SX 4... Jesus Christ, what a storm. (Look at @Shaebette who is absolutely colorful in character!) And 4 SO as the second in row. It's the heart center gone masochistic and dramatic. Richard Rohr puts it better than I do:



    "conflicted heart... feel all these emotions... creative way to try to distill them and get in touch with them"

    "complex, subtle, and emotional life"

    "breathy... dark... moody... so much soul... the tragic gives them energy... suffering artist... they love it!"
    None of those descriptions below are against what I think of as cold-hearted but rahter reinforcing for it. Being a storm and cold-hearted does not conflict either. With coldhearted I mean negative and sometimes mean/criticizing.

    I'm against those descriptions that describe 4 as they would be more artistic than any other, and "so much soul" etc... makes people think every person who is a passionate artist is 4. Which is just not true. It romanticizes the type and makes alot of people mistype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Agreed that they don't really sync their emotionality/sympathy as in empathy with others - too self-absorbed and trying to stand out from these dull people who don't get them. 9 does qualify way more. But!



    4s really soak things up, with high-contrast ups and downs: positive and negative. Never would I call a 4 cold-hearted - maybe a 5, 3, or a 1. If the 4 is self-pres first, you could make an argument. But SX 4... Jesus Christ, what a storm. (Look at @Shaebette who is absolutely colorful in character!) And 4 SO as the second in row. It's the heart center gone masochistic and dramatic. Richard Rohr puts it better than I do:



    "conflicted heart... feel all these emotions... creative way to try to distill them and get in touch with them"

    "complex, subtle, and emotional life"

    "breathy... dark... moody... so much soul... the tragic gives them energy... suffering artist... they love it!"

    An Fe valuing 4 is going to be different from an Fi valuing 4. Some of the biggest complaints people have had about me is that I am too competitive, refuse to compromise and too self absorbed. I am self aware enough to know that other people's anger can start to make me angry with them. Being Fe valuing it is not hard to imagine that there are times I can be upset and the right word or look can shift my mood. The funny thing is a lot of stuff she is saying about herself is stuff I have posted about myself on this forum. The thing about feeling alien in this world is one of the first things I said about myself. I still feel like an alien and I am actually proud of it now.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    None of those descriptions below are against what I think of as cold-hearted but rahter reinforcing for it. Being a storm and cold-hearted does not conflict either. With coldhearted I mean negative and sometimes mean/criticizing.

    I'm against those descriptions that describe 4 as they would be more artistic than any other, and "so much soul" etc... makes people think every person who is a passionate artist is 4. Which is just not true. It romanticizes the type and makes alot of people mistype.
    Ok! Hm, then our definitions are different. Cold-hearted to me is distanced, uncaring, cruel, rejecting, emotionally dead. What you semantically associate I link with how 6 and 1 handle things.

    Attention! Classic fallacy. Many 4s have this streak but not everyone who has it is a 4. Don't romanticize the 4 - the irony They do it themselves already, it's a sure-fire way to spot them. So we are allowed to romanticize the type for once.

    Do you consider you could be mistyped yourself? I'm just curious about the options/alternatives you had. Like my alternative is the 7, for instance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Ok! Hm, then our definitions are different. Cold-hearted to me is distanced, uncaring, cruel, rejecting, emotionally dead. What you semantically associate I link with how 6 and 1 handle things.

    Attention! Classic fallacy. Many 4s have this streak but not everyone who has it is a 4. Don't romanticize the 4 - the irony They do it themselves already, it's a sure-fire way to spot them. So we are allowed to romanticize the type for once.

    Do you consider you could be mistyped yourself? I'm just curious about the options/alternatives you had. Like my alternative is the 7, for instance.
    Oh, unhealthy fours definitely can be those things (distanced, uncaring, cruel, rejecting, emotionally dead)!

    Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

    Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.
    Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.

    People who romanticize their own type and are "happy to be their type" are likely to be mistyped because being happy about something like that which is supposed to reveal your neurotic pattern that has usually been kept unconscious and not noticable to you, i mean its not something you would get excited about but more like cause disillusion.

    I have been studying enneagram for a while and im not mistyped , there's nothing about myself that conflicts with 4 or that is spot-on with the other types. A constant theme throughout my life has been seeing everything with holes in it including myself, being mad at me for some reason being so fucking different from the rest and in a bad way, like Im incapable to live a normal life just because of who I am, I have to be different which I tell myself is much better and authentic, more interesting than all those other boring herd-following people. Its been hard for me to accept that tthat thinking pattern is just a compensation for me actually wanting those things, and it still is hard to accept that thought.

    I think at first I typed 5, because thats what I got at tests. I used to reject the idea of being 4 and think it was ridiculous. It said that type 4s need is to be unique which I thought sounded extremely inauthentic and shallow. Meanwhile I've been thinking I'm a mangled alien that cant be saved, but it just didnt click to me that this is what was meant with the unconscious need of being unique.
    When I typed 5 it wasnt that serious, I didnt understand the theory really. i dont think I even had read up on the type. It took a while for me to get involved deeply with enneagram and at some point I had an epiphany (I think i was reading a type 4 description) and it sounded like me. Cant really remember what happened because this was years ago but I discovered the reactive triad and it sounded so much like me, and ohh someone suggested that tritype for me on a forum and it really hit home, and ever since I have typed as that tritype. I also contemplated being 8 and 6 because that whole triad was so me, but none of those worked for me. I also considered type 3 at some point.

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    If the "happy" thing was directed at me... Did I say I was happy to be a type 4? I said proud to be an alien. I am more unique than you.

    You are lying about you empathy btw. In your typing threads you clearly referred to yourself as empathic and was challenged on it then proceeded to give references. Someone also said you could be type 9. I just don't get why you spend some much energy on typing people and not focusing on yourself. It is like you are avoiding yourself by focusing on others so much.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    If the "happy" thing was directed at me... Did I say I was happy to be a type 4? I said proud to be an alien. I am more unique than you.

    You are lying about you empathy btw. In your typing threads you clearly referred to yourself as empathic and was challenged on it then proceeded to give references. Someone also said you could be type 9.
    No it wasnt directed at you. Cool that you think you are more unique than me. I dont care and this post is pathetic to me.

    If I ever said I was empathetic I didnt understand what it was. I have thought throughout my life that empathy/sympathy/compassion are all in the same kind of category until recently. Maybe besides sympathy because that is openly displaying it, which Im bad at. But empathy and compassion yeah. I can be extremely compassionate when I relate to a person. Which is self-absorption in reality.

    What is the point of saying a person thought I coudl be 9? It just feels like youre grasping at straws here and trying to insult me which is pretty childish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    No it wasnt directed at you. Cool that you think you are more unique than me. I dont care and this post is pathetic to me.

    If I ever said I was empathetic I didnt understand what it was. I have thought throughout my life that empathy/sympathy/compassion are all in the same kind of category. Maybe besides sympathy because that is openly displaying it, which Im bad at. But empathy and compassion yeah. I can be extremely compassionate when I relate to a person.

    What is the point of saying a person thought I coudl be 9? It just feels like youre grasping at straws here and trying to insult me which is pretty childish.
    As pathetic as the stupid nitpicking you have suddenly directed at me. If you couldn't tell I was joking. Everything you just said about yourself below about not wanting to be a 4 is stuff I have said repeatedly said about myself here and even recently. You dug through my old posts to find one thing I said about empathy so you could come back in with the 9 typing. How is that any less pathetic? It is grasping at straws and I don't know how you don't see that. People can read back over my enneagram posts for 4 years and see I have said the same things.

    I am completely annoyed by it which I think is obvious but I will state it clearly.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    No it wasnt directed at you. Cool that you think you are more unique than me. I dont care and this post is pathetic to me.

    If I ever said I was empathetic I didnt understand what it was. I have thought throughout my life that empathy/sympathy/compassion are all in the same kind of category until recently. Maybe besides sympathy because that is openly displaying it, which Im bad at. But empathy and compassion yeah. I can be extremely compassionate when I relate to a person. Which is self-absorption in reality.

    What is the point of saying a person thought I coudl be 9? It just feels like youre grasping at straws here and trying to insult me which is pretty childish.
    Let me be even more clear here. I find it childish that you completely dismiss anything I have said about myself even though you are now saying similar about yourself. I never saw you mention you didn't want to be a 4 before today. I have no idea why you dug up a post of mine and then quoted me in the your typing of forum members thread instead of pm-ing me to tell me he was similar if you are talking about the person I think you are. I don't know why you got so weird over my avatar. I don't know why you went from telling others how much of a 4 I am to changing it to a 9 within one hour of avatar talk on discord. There seems to be something else going on here besides wanting me to accept my type as you see it.

    I find it insulting that someone who has known me a few minutes of my life is trying to make me accept my type as they see it. If we are weighing insults here then yours is far heavier than me saying I am more unique when it is an obvious joke based on the absurdity that it has gotten this far. Still you do not listen which you say is common for 9s so I wanted to point out 9 has been suggested for you too. The thing is I get that you don't respect my opinions so why should I respect any of yours when I see how completely wrong you are about me? You are basically wasting your energy trying to convince a triangle that it is a circle. Yet you don't give up even after I told you it was pointless. That is what is insulting.

    Feel free to type me a 9 if you want. It doesn't change who I am. It would just be nice for those that were genuinely trying to figure out their enneagram to understand that it is not important what someone else types you since enneagram is too personal to rely on the opinions of others beyond some guidance. This is not guidance you offer. This is just hounding.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    ah.. so much anger from nothing. psychoforums are funny
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Damn, an @Aylen vs @maniac E4 bitch fight. Yeah baby.


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    Aylen is a 4.

    Done.

    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jailbait View Post
    Aylen is a 4.

    Done.

    I also think she is 4(w5), fyi.

    Just like with @reverie, she seems more 9 because of her 9 fix and being 1D .

    (The same applies to me, really.)
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Let me be even more clear here. I find it childish that you completely dismiss anything I have said about myself even though you are now saying similar about yourself. I never saw you mention you didn't want to be a 4 before today. I have no idea why you dug up a post of mine and then quoted me in the your typing of forum members thread instead of pm-ing me to tell me he was similar if you are talking about the person I think you are. I don't know why you got so weird over my avatar. I don't know why you went from telling others how much of a 4 I am to changing it to a 9 within one hour of avatar talk on discord. There seems to be something else going on here besides wanting me to accept my type as you see it.

    I find it insulting that someone who has known me a few minutes of my life is trying to make me accept my type as they see it. If we are weighing insults here then yours is far heavier than me saying I am more unique when it is an obvious joke based on the absurdity that it has gotten this far. Still you do not listen which you say is common for 9s so I wanted to point out 9 has been suggested for you too. The thing is I get that you don't respect my opinions so why should I respect any of yours when I see how completely wrong you are about me? You are basically wasting your energy trying to convince a triangle that it is a circle. Yet you don't give up even after I told you it was pointless. That is what is insulting.

    Feel free to type me a 9 if you want. It doesn't change who I am. It would just be nice for those that were genuinely trying to figure out their enneagram to understand that it is not important what someone else types you since enneagram is too personal to rely on the opinions of others beyond some guidance. This is not guidance you offer. This is just hounding.
    I didnt mean to be insulting and if it appeared so im sorry, but I saw a striking similarity (the thing about empathy) so I needed to tell you. I didnt think of PMing you as I thought it didnt matter where I put it. I at first thought you were 4, but since i believe now that it's either your second fix or your core (if 9 is second) the second fix is pretty prominent so its easy to confuse a persons core and their second fix in my experience. I did not go on and on about how you were a four then, I think I said one sentence about it. Besides i know more about enneagram now (I always typed you 9 fixed though) I think all of my arguments about 9 being somewhere in your type whether its your core or a fix is pretty convincing and I dont know why you intepret this as insulting rather than taking in the information in a constructive way. I have been confused about your type for a while and I like a challenge like that and maybe that's why I'm arguing so passionately but it wasn't my original intent to be offensive at all.
    Anyway, if you feel that 9 is completely off for you in all ways than I accept that. I cant see how you act in real life.
    Last edited by maniac; 10-12-2017 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    Anyway, if you feel that 9 is completely off for you in all ways than I accept that. I cant see how you act in real life.
    9 is not for her. She tried to troll me for some time (~2015), for example. (I just ignored.) It's not like 9 should behave at all.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    No. From what I've seen you can't stay (outwardly) angry at people (like, you'll call someone out here but then apologize and be like "i like you") which is 9. 8 is a power seeking type and it needs to prove itself more powerful with expressed anger, while 9 can stay "in the shadows" about it if you know what I mean.
    Not staying outwardly angry at people can mean she is a healthy 8 (but since I don't want to say she's healthy I won't question the 9 fix for her )

    Quote Originally Posted by Enneagram Institute
    Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

    source: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-8
    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    And this way of thinking that you are an alien doesn't just go away with age just like the other type neurosises doesnt just "go away", okay. Ive seen this alot, people trying to justify their typing by saying they are "past that" which is just impossible unless youve worked at it and acknowledged it for decades, and even then it wont be magically gone.
    true type neurosises doesn't just go away but there are different levels of health for each type & you should consider that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    9 is not for her. She tried to troll me for some time (~2015), for example. (I just ignored.) It's not like 9 should behave at all.
    9 is not like what you type ExI. 9s can appear very differently from eachother (as can all attachment types) and especislly online. Depends on instinct stacking too. They can the internet as a safe space for their anger among other things. Trolling can be 7. Especially mixed with social last (I type @Satan here sp/sx 7). I would not say there is a way a certain type "can't behave". You need to look at the persons inner world and how they work. You sound like you think 9s should be all moralistic and "good" because you connect it with Fi leading. But 9 is not a moralistic type. 1, 2 and 6 are the moralists. Eric Clapton is sp/sx 9 (974, the tritype I think for Aylen but either 4 or 9 core). Look at him and tell me if you think he is ExI. Jimi Hendrix is another 974.
    oftheroses on instagram is 9w8, sp/sx I believe. Definitely not someone you would type ExI
    Last edited by maniac; 10-12-2017 at 04:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    9 is not like what you type ExI.
    9 will not provoke people for several weeks risking to get back-kicks from them. While Aylen did this. And I was not the only such, as she said that played same with others too. She's soft, but 9 is the least(!) type which would behave such.
    You are newer on this forum. Look her early messages.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    9 will not provoke people for several weeks risking to get back-kicks from them. While Aylen did this. And I was not the only such, as she said that played same with others too. She's soft, but 9 is the least(!) type which would behave such.
    You are newer on this forum. Look her early messages.
    as i said they sure can especislly with a 7 fix. I know really angry 9s online. Its actually very common that they do that online. Its a safe space to take out their rage. Some of the biggest fights online are by 9s. I also know a 9 who beats down their SO when they offend them. Same as when my father used to use violence against me when I was little and I was scared of him. When me and my father argues he will tease me and provoke me and play with fire to make me even more pissed and it usually works. I had a 9 friend describe the same urge to play with fire. Björk is 9, look at her beating down that news reporter out of no where. They are the angriest type by far.
    Last edited by maniac; 10-12-2017 at 05:14 PM.

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    I am not a core 9 and I do not have a 7 fix.

    Don't worry @Sol I won't taint the 9 pureness.
    Last edited by Aylen; 10-13-2017 at 05:52 AM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Don't worry Sol I won't taint the 9 pureness.
    Don't worry, your pureness is unquestionable to taint someone.

    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    ^that's also very 479 tritype The witch thing especially comes out when it's paired with sp/sx. Fantasy mixed with evil.
    sp/sx: the grave digger
    "
    Stevie Nicks sp/sx 497:

    Last edited by maniac; 10-13-2017 at 11:39 AM.

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